@ZOS Please confirm if VR levels are no longer being removed

NewBlacksmurf · October 2015

Has ZOS decided to no longer remove veteran levels?

There was info on champion level caps and no VR increases and new dlc for arena VR leaderboards
Also info on scaled content for levels 10-VR16 so just point blank asking what's what cause this is approx update 5 or so and the original timeline was said to remove VR levels after the champion level system around update 5 or 6.

WSUP?

MisterJimothy · October 2015

This has definitely never been talked about before /s

But to answer your question, and has been said MANY times...

They are going away. As they have also stated many times, it's going to take a while for that to happen. Almost every single aspect of this game is tied to levels. Normal, Vet, doesn't matter for the sake of this discussion. Monsters, items, entire zones, skills, and other things are all tied to levels. It's not just some switch that you can turn off and make everything better.

Xendyn · October 2015

After Orsinium is last I heard.
Of course, that includes infinity lol

Pirhana7_ESO · October 2015

Last I heard from ESO live was after Ors DLC they would start on revoing vet levels and it would be part of teh first major update in 2016

NewBlacksmurf · October 2015

Anyone recall which month this was mentioned on ESO live since June or so
I guess I've missed that episode

AshTal · October 2015

The keep saying they will get rid of Veteran levels when they have a better solution. Problem is they can't find a better solution.

nimander99 · October 2015

They are just waiting for someone to come up with an idea on how to remove them w/o breaking the game, so... standby.

NewBlacksmurf · October 2015

nimander99 wrote: »

They are just waiting for someone to come up with an idea on how to remove them w/o breaking the game, so... standby.

That's doesn't sound correct.

They've already started the process my only specific question is when or has something changed...what you mention hasn't been shared by them as it was their plan to remove them around update 5 or 6 but the champion system was laid out to come first

Xendyn · October 2015

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Anyone recall which month this was mentioned on ESO live since June or so
I guess I've missed that episode

Possibly the Q&A episode after Quakecon?

Jitterbug · October 2015

nimander99 wrote: »

They are just waiting for someone to come up with an idea on how to remove them w/o breaking the game, so... standby.

I don't want to knock on ZOS but that will never happen. Not for any devs in any game ever. It will entail an avalanche of new bugs, and the better prepared everyone is for that ride the better.
Think of it like beta all over again, only crazier because this time, the whine will be real.

Qyrk · October 2015

They already said removal of veteran ranks will not be happening with Orsinium, but sometime after this DLC. You guys are correct - this information was from an ESO Live (forgot which one).

NewBlacksmurf · October 2015

Xendyn wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Anyone recall which month this was mentioned on ESO live since June or so
I guess I've missed that episode

Possibly the Q&A episode after Quakecon?

That's 2014...I have read all of those details. So I've missed nothing then since this http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/118516/the-road-ahead-july-8-2014/p1

Geemarc · October 2015

I've never understood why people want veteran levels removed. Is it just to make it easier to level to max?

Going from 1-50 can be done in less than 8 hours, would they then make this harder or just increase the cap to level 65?

In either case I don't really see what would be the point its just renaming what is already there. I'm all for opening up the game and removing restrictions like Cadwell silver, but don't understand the reasoning for removing veteran levels.

Starshadw · October 2015

MisterJimothy wrote: »

This has definitely never been talked about before /s

But to answer your question, and has been said MANY times...

They are going away. As they have also stated many times, it's going to take a while for that to happen. Almost every single aspect of this game is tied to levels. Normal, Vet, doesn't matter for the sake of this discussion. Monsters, items, entire zones, skills, and other things are all tied to levels. It's not just some switch that you can turn off and make everything better.

I do not understand the ESO players' issue with vet levels.

Leveling in some form of another is part of many MMO out there. Whether they are just called levels, vet levels, uber levels, or something else altogether, leveling is a base mechanic for most MMOs.

Why people are so hung up on this is beyond me. What difference does it make if it's called vet level 1, or level 51? It amounts to the same thing.

SneaK · October 2015

Yea I don't understand why they'd be removed..

ianshere82b14_ESO · October 2015

A lot of the information on the removal of VR ranks and the Champion system are put out in the podcasts on Twitch. Simply go to Twitch and search for "Zenimax" inside of "People" section. You will find them and all the podcasts with juicy info.

NewBlacksmurf · October 2015

Geemarc wrote: »

I've never understood why people want veteran levels removed. Is it just to make it easier to level to max?

Going from 1-50 can be done in less than 8 hours, would they then make this harder or just increase the cap to level 65?

In either case I don't really see what would be the point its just renaming what is already there. I'm all for opening up the game and removing restrictions like Cadwell silver, but don't understand the reasoning for removing veteran levels.

You've not been around long enough to fully understand but either way the questions come from the announcement linked a few comments above. There are some negative...VERY negative experiences that were from VR levels and some that still exist. Also raising the levels isn't logical once you understand how VR works. Largely tho....when it was announced that they would be removed and a new system added when we saw the champion system we expected VR to go

Ourorboros · October 2015

Seems to me Orsinium is the beta test for vet removal. It will scale to player level. If they can get this to work, makes sense to apply it game wide. Fits in with what ZOS has said about removal would be after Orsinium.

Don't really care that much anyway, so long as whatever change doesn't introduce a ton of new bugs.

Saint_JiubB14_ESO · October 2015

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Xendyn wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Anyone recall which month this was mentioned on ESO live since June or so
I guess I've missed that episode

Possibly the Q&A episode after Quakecon?

That's 2014...I have read all of those details. So I've missed nothing then since this http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/118516/the-road-ahead-july-8-2014/p1

It was this years quakecon

Katahdin · October 2015

I also dont understand the rabid desire to have vet levels removed.

How do you propose they do this? Lower everything to level 50? Just get rid of vet levels and you have to grind your way to V16 or whatever it will be called then by some other method?

So far I enjoy the vet levels and I would rather they stay in the game to let people continue to progress their character that way if they so choose. If you dont want to do all the quests in Silver and Gold, you can just do what is required to get out of the zone and go level somewhere else (pledges, Cyrodil or where ever). Those quest chains are pretty short and dont take alot of time to complete at all.

Seems to me that removing them would require a major reworking of the game. It could cause more problems than it solves.

Alucardo · October 2015

/lurk

Caligamy_ESO · October 2015

Katahdin wrote: »

I also dont understand the rabid desire to have vet levels removed.

How do you propose they do this? Lower everything to level 50? Just get rid of vet levels and you have to grind your way to V16 or whatever it will be called then by some other method?

So far I enjoy the vet levels and I would rather they stay in the game to let people continue to progress their character that way if they so choose. If you dont want to do all the quests in Silver and Gold, you can just do what is required to get out of the zone and go level somewhere else (pledges, Cyrodil or where ever). Those quest chains are pretty short and dont take alot of time to complete at all.

Seems to me that removing them would require a major reworking of the game. It could cause more problems than it solves.

Couldn't agree more.. If vet levels didn't exist I would be playing something else right now instead of leveling my characters.

FriedEggSandwich · October 2015

They're not going anywhere, what's the point? I don't even know anyone who wants them removed. I don't know why zos ever said they would remove them because I don't believe they have any intention to. It was probably a panicked response to all the whining from people wanting mmo end game after 8 hours play. Zos have since improved battle levelling to where you can now survive in vet pvp after 8 hours play, if that's what people want to do.

I don't want them removed. Their removal would be a complete waste of everyone's time, including devs. I pay a sub and don't want my money funding the removal of vet ranks. The system they allegedly brought in to replace them has just been capped. Who even wants them removed and why? Cadwells silver/gold will always be the best source of xp/skill points, vet ranks or not. I even said this back when they first announced their removal; it won't help new players because they will still need xp and skill points to be on a par with vet players.

jcasini222ub17_ESO · October 2015

The cp system practically functions has vertical progression, so does the vr system. Both cannot be present at the same time without some serious power creep. I personally didnt mind the vr system. But its either or, it can't continue being both.

Itemization has already been talked about. The last idea went something like this...

All gear is 50 with hidden increase. So you can have a level 50 dagger at 100 damage and a level 50 dagger at 110 damage. The damage level is determined by the cp level.

It will be interesting if they stick with this, it already would follow their hidden numbers philosophy with many other stats in the game.

FriedEggSandwich · October 2015

jcasini222ub17_ESO wrote: »

The cp system practically functions has vertical progression, so does the vr system. Both cannot be present at the same time without some serious power creep. I personally didnt mind the vr system. But its either or, it can't continue being both.

Itemization has already been talked about. The last idea went something like this...

All gear is 50 with hidden increase. So you can have a level 50 dagger at 100 damage and a level 50 dagger at 110 damage. The damage level is determined by the cp level.

It will be interesting if they stick with this, it already would follow their hidden numbers philosophy with many other stats in the game.

Explain the power creep. Of course they can be present at the same time; they are and have been for a large chunk of the games life. Vet ranks affect your primary stats, giving you attribute points, and have a highly achievable end point. They basically chart your progression through silver/gold. CP provide much smaller incremental improvements and have an end point way into the future for most people. Vet ranks make everyone stronger more or less equally, CP allow players to tailor how they get stronger, and in this respect the champion system is more akin to the skill point system.

jcasini222ub17_ESO · October 2015

I view the cp system as vertical progression. They are adding a a hard cap to cp, they are adding a catch up mechanic, they already battle leveled vr ranks. This is because two vertical systems exsit at the same time. Outside of a catch up mechanic I think the other 'fixes' are pure bandaids, the battle level vr ranks is the clearest example. Its not just the attributes but how much vr1 gear grants over vr16 gear, food, glyphs the entire system then you throw cp allocations on top of that plus their granted passives.

This is how, now, many more individuals can solo group dungeons... I don't have the skill nor twitch ability that I should be able to solo a group dungeon, not public Im not getting them confused, I'm talking about 4man group dungeons. In 1.5 I couldn't now in 1.6 I can. This isn't balance, this is a by product of two vertical system and the world not being suffiencently tuned to having a double progression system. Up the difficulty to where it should be and I imagine a quit train will start or remove one of the vertical systems.

DaniAngione · October 2015

Since the 'main quest' of the game (which could be considered the last thing our characters did (chonologically) happens at level 50, my guess is that the VR will be removed once the Main Quest is continued, adding more levels from now on (60, 70, etc...)

I'm saying chronologically because even though Imperial City and Orsinium came after, they're supposed to be happening before the final quest. Both can be accessed by lower levels, which means that if the game launched today, you'd be able to fight in IC before finishing the story. Besides, IC is clearly set in the middle of the war and while the Planemeld is still active.

So that's my guess. Veteran Ranks will go away when the main story continues, setting us from level 50, where we "stopped".

nimander99 · October 2015

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

They are just waiting for someone to come up with an idea on how to remove them w/o breaking the game, so... standby.

That's doesn't sound correct.

They've already started the process my only specific question is when or has something changed...what you mention hasn't been shared by them as it was their plan to remove them around update 5 or 6 but the champion system was laid out to come first

Lol, of course it doesn't sound correct... t'was sarcasm laced with a smidge of humor

Teiji · October 2015

Timestamp 52:50

https://youtu.be/5Rtw2wfJaLU?t=52m50s

Matt Firor said they're being removed after Orsinium. He said this @ Quakecon 2015. As has been stated many, many times already and several times in this thread.

NewBlacksmurf · October 2015

Teiji wrote: »

Timestamp 52:50

https://youtu.be/5Rtw2wfJaLU?t=52m50s

Matt Firor said they're being removed after Orsinium. He said this @ Quakecon 2015. As has been stated many, many times already and several times in this thread.

Thanks

NewBlacksmurf · October 2015

well now on PTS we have this....I just saw it myself..... not too happy

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/222513/v17-and-v18-confirmed#latest