What SHOULDN'T be included in ESO housing?

Cuyler · August 2015

Gidorick wrote: »

Well is pretty obvious that there are pretty adamant views on both sides of the crafting station in player home issue. I was thinking similarly to @paleobonesb14_ESO to where maybe we can only refine materials or research materials.

Those who don't want crafting stations would see this as a compromise, those who want stations would see it as a needless restriction.

See I'm all for keeping the cities active; however, I'm willing to argue that player controlled crafting stations (other than alchemy and enchanting) would have little to no effect on this. Let's for instance say that housing is released with the ability to buy crafting stations with a hefty buy-in of in-game gold...(fingers crossed not crown purchasable).

Those players who could afford these stations most likely don't use regular crafting stations anymore anyways but use set crafting stations (located out towns anyhow) to make gear. I can't even tell you the last time I used a regular blacksmith, ww or clothing table. So there is potentially little/no population loss. Limiting this is indeed a needless restriction (in this scenario, ie. high buy-in).

Provisioning, well...what's a house without a kitchen? no question there (if common sense prevails)....leaving only alchemy as the one defining crafting station bringing me into town for an entire 5 minutes a week. Really this seems like a non-issue if the requirements are stringent enough.

The issue is if these stations will be purchasable with crowns and every new character can get access from day one. I suggest leaving housing functionality upgrades (i.e. crafting stations, garden) to high cost in-game gold purchases and have any fluff (i.e. furniture, tapestries) be purchased with crowns.

Cuyler · August 2015

paleobonesb14_ESO wrote: »

So again I understand wanting houses to be functional but why does functional mean I must have access to absolutely everything!

A house can be functional without including everything, where did I imply otherwise? I suggested leaving at a minimum writs, bank and stable master in the cities exclusively. I could go as far as saying wayshrines too. but yea hyperbole away m8

Edit: I forgot to add dye stations too, because these aren't tied to any level restrictions and can be used from day one imo shouldn't be available for housing. quests, merchants, fences, guild stores too.

Really, the crafting station thing is where I draw the line lol. They should be there, If you ever played another ES game you'd know what I'm talking about.

Gidorick · August 2015

I posted a concept for how personal crafting stations could be implemented in player homes. I'd love some feedback from both sides of this fence!
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/208786/player-home-personal-crafting-stations-concepts/p1

Iluvrien · August 2015

Cuyler wrote: »

See I'm all for keeping the cities active; however, I'm willing to argue that player controlled crafting stations (other than alchemy and enchanting) would have little to no effect on this. Let's for instance say that housing is released with the ability to buy crafting stations with a hefty buy-in of in-game gold...(fingers crossed not crown purchasable).

Those players who could afford these stations most likely don't use regular crafting stations anymore anyways but use set crafting stations (located out towns anyhow) to make gear. I can't even tell you the last time I used a regular blacksmith, ww or clothing table. So there is potentially little/no population loss. Limiting this is indeed a needless restriction (in this scenario, ie. high buy-in).

And I am willing to argue that they will have an effect on this.

The argument in favour of cities being depopulated by crafting stations in houses, even standard stations, is in-game already. It is the settlement of Rawl'kha.

Rawl'kha continues to be busy, even at the strange hours that I log-in (being in JP on the EU server). Why? Is it an area of outstanding natural beauty? Maybe. Does it possess any material value that any other sufficiently large settlement doesn't possess? I doubt it. So why is it that I would still consider it one of the top 3 locations populated by players at the moment?(the others being the Faction capital [for Undaunted missions] and Craglorn... because Craglorn)

Simple. Because it is easy.

Rawl'kha has been popular since soon after launch because it has everything that people need with very little running around required to move from one point of interest, such as the bank or crafting stations, to another. In my faction, EP, the quests there are exhausted fairly quickly, you can't pick up writs, etc. etc. ... so maybe, as many suggestions to the Crown Store thread would have us believe, convenience really is important.

What then is likely to occur if you introduce housing that fulfills all of these functions with even greater convenience and possibly the chance to choose your own wallpaper?

Personally I think that people will be people. People have jobs and lives and have decided that they only have a very limited amount of time so they are likely take the easiest, quickest option that is presented to them so they can get back to hitting ugly creatures with sharp pieces of metal.

That is why I believe that the settlements will depopulate if housing with thinks like bank access and crafting stations are introduced. It is also why I strongly believe that they shouldn't be.

For the record, I have queried other members of my guild about their responses to such an inclusion and they all had the same view: If it was easier, they would use it instead. Of course I can't claim that to be a representative sample or any such thing (it was only about 20 people) but it seems the only person who was willing to go to a less convenient city was me... and I do it for purely in-character reasons.

Gidorick · August 2015

Hey @ Iluvrien check out my concept for crafting stations in homes. It wouldn't be easier than towns... This fact it would be much more difficult... At first.

Gidorick wrote: »

I posted a concept for how personal crafting stations could be implemented in player homes. I'd love some feedback from both sides of this fence!
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/208786/player-home-personal-crafting-stations-concepts/p1

Justice31st · August 2015

Um, sorry but I have to disagree. Being on PS4 in the Dagger Fall Covenant, Storm Haven is usually a unsocial experience. Well actually scratch that, I was visiting the bank today and someone said they were the real N word, and we were all white geek [snip]. Anyways, I would rather teleport to my guild house to do all my banking needs, knowing that I would be treated better with more respected like minded individuals. Thanks for your time. Take care.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Forestd16b14_ESO · August 2015

And here I am waiting for a PvP arena.

Justice31st · August 2015

Justice31st wrote: »

Um, sorry but I have to disagree. Being on PS4 in the Dagger Fall Covenant, Storm Haven is usually a unsocial experience. Well actually scratch that, I was visiting the bank today and someone said they were the real N word, and we were all white geek [snip]. Anyways, I would rather teleport to my guild house to do all my banking needs, knowing that I would be treated better with more respected like minded individuals. Thanks for your time. Take care.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Cursing & Profanity]

Sorry moderator, I used the asterisk * in the middle of the my words, but I should of read the forum TOS more carefully. I apologize.

P3ZZL3 · August 2015

@Gidorick off to read the crafting thread now

Something I've now noticed, as the comments keep coming, is the disparity between some of the statements.

For example:

On one hand, people seem to agree that Housing is not for low level characters. It should be expensive (in gold terms) to rent/pay for and should really only be for the more seasoned players.... That being said, as @Cuyler points out extremely well, is that anyone at this level is never going to use the "bog standard" crafting tables.

Maybe the concept should actually be far more scalable to cater for all levels of players/people.

Possibly as a relatively new(ish) player, you can rent a small cottage in your starting faction town. IT's simple and really does have the absolute basics - nothing is upgradable but it gives you a personal space/base. Would be sensible utilisation for the new pvp/pve player and would be something for the new(ish) RP'rs to have to enjoy. No wayshrine, simple crafting desk for clothes say, not for blacksmithing or wood working, but it would allow you to decon all items and a fireplace.

Next stage would be something larger, with more options, clearly more money/rent for when you get to v1. It would be based in your Cadwells Silver starting town (I'm DC) - however it may include a few more amenities. The more you want in the house, the more you pay in rent (and yes, it would HAVE to be rent as the one off price) but it would still be restricted. Maybe now include wayshrine as you are going out of starter zone, or something *shrugs*

Third stage, would be when hitting v14. Gives people a reason to push for it over and above just the gear. This would allow multiple customised items, crafting on all 3 areas, etc. Remember, when you are at v14, there is little you need in way of standard items. BUT....the costs would be considerable to justify the property. Location would be end of Gold in your relevant area.

Now, before everyone starts screaming "OMG, no one will go to the town everrrr....!!!one one one".... I ask you this one simple question.

How many random people do you HONESTLY approach, and introduce yourself and get to know?

IF everyone is actually being honest, I would say the number in very very small, single digits numbers per week.

People are hung up on "seeing" that the community are is busy - but that's where it ends. 97.69% of people that role play, role play with friends, guilds, etc. Not with randoms in a town.

The final thought/stage, would be having a Guild Property. This could only be activated with 400+ members. This is where the TRUE community really sits. Where people team up to go on trials, do dungeons, help guildies out with public dungeons, RP...whatever it might be. This would not be a cheap proposition, but would contain almost everything the guild wants or would need.

I would stress @Cuyler 's point again. People at this level generally have everything they need. They are not doing quests or overly concerned about immersion or the "enjoyable" travel to an out of way crafting station just to make some boots. It becomes tedious and a pain in the ass. Especially as with the larger, more established Guilds, there is almost always one or two people who can make/craft everything. They are the ones that have to spend time helping people out running around, draining their play time, making stuff to help people. The real MVP's you might say. Giving them the capability of accessing all the sets in a single place would make their game play a lot better...but people will complain about it.

Anyhows, there's my 2 cents on it all

Evarwyn · August 2015

What shouldn't be included?

If furnishing your home carries stat buffs for your character, than you should not be able to purchase items to furnish your house in the crown store.

My 2 septims.

yngvilrundeb16_ESO · August 2015

No Argonian or Khajiit housekeepers please, because that wouldn't be very nice, now would it ...precious

Grymligast · August 2015

Anything that takes away from the social areas of people visiting the main cities.

So crafting stations, buying and selling of items, things like that.

Guards should be added, because given the stealing in the game, you should be able to unlock and lock your door. So that if someone is pilfering *** in your home, guards can wreck them or better yet you can.

OzJohnD · August 2015

I also,want Cadwell as a visitor to my house.

Psychobunni · August 2015

Grymligast wrote: »

Anything that takes away from the social areas of people visiting the main cities.

So crafting stations, buying and selling of items, things like that.

Guards should be added, because given the stealing in the game, you should be able to unlock and lock your door. So that if someone is pilfering *** in your home, guards can wreck them or better yet you can.

^On that note....Ability to steal from other players should *not* be in player housing at all.

P3ZZL3 · August 2015

Grymligast wrote: »

Anything that takes away from the social areas of people visiting the main cities...

Ok @Grymligast - Question - and answer this honestly.

In the last few days, how many people have you approached in a main city, who you didn't know, and have a conversation with them and add them to your friends list?

Gidorick · August 2015

You bring up some good points @P3ZZL3. I rarely actually talk to strangers in game. I try sometimes, but they're zipping by too fast. Lol. This doesn't mean that I don't like seeing them zip by.

It's an illusion of community, sure, but the resulting feeling of community is there. The towns would feel quite different if there weren't anyone in them. I experienced this in the starting islands at VR levels. The game WOULD lose something of the towns were suddenly devoid of other players.

Personally, I think we are treading on ground that is best left for another thread. ESO could use some community feature overhauls like player created writs, Inn events and incentives, and individual player mercantile systems.

P3ZZL3 · August 2015

Gidorick wrote: »

Personally, I think we are reading on ground that is best left for another thread. ESO could use since vicinity feature overhauls line player created writs, Inn events and incentives, and individual player mercantile systems.

I have read this 3 times and I have no idea what you are saying lol

Cuyler · August 2015

Iluvrien wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

See I'm all for keeping the cities active; however, I'm willing to argue that player controlled crafting stations (other than alchemy and enchanting) would have little to no effect on this. Let's for instance say that housing is released with the ability to buy crafting stations with a hefty buy-in of in-game gold...(fingers crossed not crown purchasable).

Those players who could afford these stations most likely don't use regular crafting stations anymore anyways but use set crafting stations (located out towns anyhow) to make gear. I can't even tell you the last time I used a regular blacksmith, ww or clothing table. So there is potentially little/no population loss. Limiting this is indeed a needless restriction (in this scenario, ie. high buy-in).

And I am willing to argue that they will have an effect on this.

The argument in favour of cities being depopulated by crafting stations in houses, even standard stations, is in-game already. It is the settlement of Rawl'kha.

Rawl'kha continues to be busy, even at the strange hours that I log-in (being in JP on the EU server). Why? Is it an area of outstanding natural beauty? Maybe. Does it possess any material value that any other sufficiently large settlement doesn't possess? I doubt it. So why is it that I would still consider it one of the top 3 locations populated by players at the moment?(the others being the Faction capital [for Undaunted missions] and Craglorn... because Craglorn)

Simple. Because it is easy.

Rawl'kha has been popular since soon after launch because it has everything that people need with very little running around required to move from one point of interest, such as the bank or crafting stations, to another. In my faction, EP, the quests there are exhausted fairly quickly, you can't pick up writs, etc. etc. ... so maybe, as many suggestions to the Crown Store thread would have us believe, convenience really is important.

What then is likely to occur if you introduce housing that fulfills all of these functions with even greater convenience and possibly the chance to choose your own wallpaper?

Personally I think that people will be people. People have jobs and lives and have decided that they only have a very limited amount of time so they are likely take the easiest, quickest option that is presented to them so they can get back to hitting ugly creatures with sharp pieces of metal.

That is why I believe that the settlements will depopulate if housing with thinks like bank access and crafting stations are introduced. It is also why I strongly believe that they shouldn't be.

For the record, I have queried other members of my guild about their responses to such an inclusion and they all had the same view: If it was easier, they would use it instead. Of course I can't claim that to be a representative sample or any such thing (it was only about 20 people) but it seems the only person who was willing to go to a less convenient city was me... and I do it for purely in-character reasons.

Well constructed argument... much appreciated

I do think it stretches a little on why a lot of players are in Rawl'kha. The real reason is not the standard crafting stations, it is simply because the bank, guild traders and wayshrine are within a jumping distance of each other. That is why I stated banks, writs and wayshrines should not be in player houses. I frequent Rawl all the time, is it for the crafting stations? Nope. It's because I can port in, take two steps buy anything I need, take two more steps and be at the bank. You do bring up a good point however. The layout of certain cities is a major factor in their activity, which has more of an effect on their popularity than standard crafting stations being there or not.

There are certainly may different playstyles and I won't pretend to understand what everyone does in cities but I do know that I'm there only briefly to make potions (5-10 min tops), do writs (30 min), wts in zone or go to the bank. I still fail to see how players in my situation would "break the game" by being able to craft in seclusion. Again I'm not for adding everything, there has to be limits of course, but crafting stations specifically don't play as large a role as some here are leading to believe imo. At least where I'm at in the game.

Thalmor-Nordmaster · August 2015

what shouldn't be in ? well the house. No houses you get boats instead

anitajoneb17_ESO · August 2015

Gidorick wrote: »

It's an illusion of community, sure, but the resulting feeling of community is there. The towns would feel quite different if there weren't anyone in them. I experienced this in the starting islands at VR levels. The game WOULD lose something of the towns were suddenly devoid of other players.

That's where we disagree.

While I have found ingame a great community of guildies / people to play with, I actualy dislike the *overall* community of the game that appears to me as respectless. I guess that's a matter of taste.

But I think that towns would GAIN a lot from being less invaded by players who have nothing to do there but collect their daily quests, rush to the bank and do their crafting while spamming whatever ability for the joy of annoying others. If all this would be taken away from towns and back to their houses, cities would be populated with NPCs (they're very well done) and by players who actually have something meaningful and immersive to do there : shopping in guild stores, thieving and going to the fence. That would make cities much more pleasant to visit.

Grymligast · August 2015

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Grymligast wrote: »

Anything that takes away from the social areas of people visiting the main cities...

Ok @Grymligast - Question - and answer this honestly.

In the last few days, how many people have you approached in a main city, who you didn't know, and have a conversation with them and add them to your friends list?

Honestly? None. In fact i've told people to shut up quite a few times.

However, when I do visit those areas, i'd like them to be populated with people.

When you go in to town on a Saturday or Sunday to do some shopping, how many people do you talk to? My guess would be 0 to occasionally seeing someone you know. Now when you're walking around, would you rather the city you're in be completely desolate or have a bustling vibe when walking about?

The same applies here, imo.

idk · August 2015

Gidorick wrote: »

We're all pretty excited that housing is on the table for eventual release.

You do understand what this means? Eventual is an eternity when it comes to development for this game.

Audigy · August 2015

Sharmony wrote: »

I do not want to see player housing become the equivalent of WoW Garrisons where everyone has there own little personal space and does not interact in any way with the rest of the world, because hey, if you're given most things in your house, why would you leave?

While I understand that concern, what is the actual difference between waiting at the SW bank and waiting at your Garrison? A lot of people tend to think that we spend all day in towns and do something there, but the reality is we only pick up our quests and either idle until the queue pops or we go and do said quests.

I am not sure what those who are afraid of dead cities actually do right now in a town. What am I missing there? All I see people do in towns is stand around, doing nothing, or they harass other players by blocking NPCs

paleobonesb14_ESO wrote: »

So again I understand wanting houses to be functional but why does functional mean I must have access to absolutely everything!

I don't think someone has access to everything, just because he or she can store some items in a box, cook a meal or chop some wood.
To experience the story, to discover the world, a player still must leave said house. A house in an MMO serves as a way to contact other players. Ok, maybe that's outdated today when we have FB and stuff, but back at Ultima days every house had a mailbox and you could send other players messages or goods. To do so, you had to walk to their house and click the mailbox, not everyone however had a mailbox, so you couldn't send everyone a message.

Some houses also had vendors, similar to the guild vendors we have now. This has the advantage to be able to also compete at the trade system, even if you don´t have a guild.

Again, nothing is taken away from anyone just because those things become available. Those who prefer writing live chat messages can still do so, those who want to use guild vendors can still do so and those who want to hop around bank NPC´s can still do so.

Needless to say that having a house in an MMO can take many months, its the content for solo players and if group players get all those raids, then why can´t solo players also have something of equal value?

Gidorick wrote: »

You bring up some good points @P3ZZL3. I rarely actually talk to strangers in game. I try sometimes, but they're zipping by too fast. Lol. This doesn't mean that I don't like seeing them zip by.

It's an illusion of community, sure, but the resulting feeling of community is there. The towns would feel quite different if there weren't anyone in them. I experienced this in the starting islands at VR levels. The game WOULD lose something of the towns were suddenly devoid of other players.

I see this different.

A community does not feel alive or become valuable, just because people can jump up and down in front of merchants or see others craft stuff. A community is found by going into the woods, attacking a bear and having help by a stranger.

During all those months at ESO, the conversations that I had were all based on adventuring. Either I was killed by something and got a helping hand to get my revenge, or I was asked to help someone with a quest. Sometimes, players also just tag along with you, not saying anything - but you know that they are on the same quest or dungeon.

What you speak of is just an illusion of a community, as you wont be in contact with the players you see. Its like going to a shopping mall in town. Sure there are hundreds of other people, but they don't want to have anything to do with you, they mind their own business, just like the people in ESO towns. Ya sure, we have some clowns who try to block NPC´s, ok - but that's pretty much the only player interaction we have in a typical MMO town

Dylanator30 · August 2015

They should take a cut from DC Universe style on Bases-Many location to purchase other can get it also but their own custom inside. Blend that with Skyrims HEarthStone features, and People will feel much more connected having a place top hang the swords. Or gather with friends before dungeons. No wayshrines to it just your direction.

Vikerion
Ebonheart

Psychobunni · August 2015

Grymligast wrote: »

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Grymligast wrote: »

Anything that takes away from the social areas of people visiting the main cities...

Ok @Grymligast - Question - and answer this honestly.

In the last few days, how many people have you approached in a main city, who you didn't know, and have a conversation with them and add them to your friends list?

Honestly? None. In fact i've told people to shut up quite a few times.

However, when I do visit those areas, i'd like them to be populated with people.

When you go in to town on a Saturday or Sunday to do some shopping, how many people do you talk to? My guess would be 0 to occasionally seeing someone you know. Now when you're walking around, would you rather the city you're in be completely desolate or have a bustling vibe when walking about?

The same applies here, imo.

Yes! Oh God, please YES! You have no idea how many times I've told my children that when I leave home the roads and stores should be vacated of all non-necessary people. It would be my first magic genie wish!

@Gidorick's concept here seems a nice compromise

forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/208786/player-home-personal-crafting-stations-concepts/p1

silly mods moved it to "crafting"

MorHawk · August 2015

If the only thing people want others around for is so that towns feel less empty, then just add more NPCs. job done.
Bottom line: as much as it may be a mistake to compare ESO to the SP games, people will expect what they got in Oblivion and Skyrim's systems. That means customization and crafting stations are essential.

Gidorick · August 2015

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Personally, I think we are reading on ground that is best left for another thread. ESO could use since vicinity feature overhauls line player created writs, Inn events and incentives, and individual player mercantile systems.

I have read this 3 times and I have no idea what you are saying lol

By the divines! That's what I get for not proofreading my Swype type. Lol. Let's try again. It's like I had a stroke!

"Personally, I think we are treading on ground that is best left for another thread. ESO could use some community feature overhauls like player created writs, Inn events and incentives, and individual player mercantile systems."

The core problem isn't that homes might empty towns, it's that there aren't enough community features to keep players in the towns to begin with!

Asha_11_ESO · August 2015

Audigy wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

I do not want to see player housing become the equivalent of WoW Garrisons where everyone has there own little personal space and does not interact in any way with the rest of the world, because hey, if you're given most things in your house, why would you leave?

While I understand that concern, what is the actual difference between waiting at the SW bank and waiting at your Garrison? A lot of people tend to think that we spend all day in towns and do something there, but the reality is we only pick up our quests and either idle until the queue pops or we go and do said quests.

I am not sure what those who are afraid of dead cities actually do right now in a town. What am I missing there? All I see people do in towns is stand around, doing nothing, or they harass other players by blocking NPCs

I feel the same way about not wanting player housing in ESO to end up like Garrisons in WoW. I like the hub of activity in cities, even if it is sometimes an illusion of community. I say sometimes, because I've actually made quite a few in-game friends from just hanging out or doing things in the city hubs. In WoW in particular it's also a great place to 'people'-watch, see Tmog, have random conversations, and see random happenings like mount parades/conga lines, a whole forest of people transformed into trees running around, toybox fun, or catch sight of people showing off new mounts/armour etc.

I don't want anything in player housing that is considered a retail service within the fantasy world. (Who has a bank, auction house, or airport terminal in their homes?) I'd like housing that fits in with the fantasy. It should be a place I can go to earn a bit of extra rest/enlightenment, somewhere I can stash all my loot and materials, where I can cook a meal, hang my costumes/armor, and a place to display trophies.

Banks could still hold our gold, and be used to access the usual guild and trader features. Although, it would be awesome to have guild housing instead.

Eriquito3 · August 2015

paleobonesb14_ESO wrote: »

So again I understand wanting houses to be functional but why does functional mean I must have access to absolutely everything!

Because the guild trader system is garbage, and this would be the closet thing tonan AH we could get.

anitajoneb17_ESO · August 2015

Eriquito3 wrote: »

Because in my humble opinion the guild trader system is garbage, and this would be the closet thing tonan AH we could get.

Fixed it for you.