So the future.

Mikoto · February 2015

Seraphyel wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

jeevin wrote: »

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

Either the PC playerbase is so insignificant that it really doesn't matter or some guys working for Zenimax are just id*ots.

The PC player base is clearly very small at the moment, and the long term players are obviously not their target group. Whether their current plan will bring in enough new players at re-release in a few weeks remains to be seen. I wouldn't bet on it, but we'll know soon enough.

Zos needs to change their dodgey ways to keep long term players(if they get them). Zos also needs to improve the quality of their work and, this one thinks, remove those Veteran Ranks. Actually the more I think about it the more I don't think this game is ready for "relaunch" at all. I doubt it will be ready for console launch either.

That's it. ESO is far from something that could be named "relaunch". 1.6 alters not much, gameplay will still be the same. Just because you add another kind of progression, you don't alter the bad things about your product (lags, balance, VR ranks, missing end content, missing diversity in gameplay etc.).

@Seraphyel , have you been on the PTS? (Legit question, not being snide) They changed quite a bit, above and beyond the Champion system. It's about as close to a full revamp as you can get without having to change the name (more).

I am on the PTS since they brought it up.

What exactly are they changing that is worth some kind of rebranding?

Sure, there are some things altered and some things added, but the weaknesses are still there, that's the point. 1.6 feels like the true release version of ESO, but it still lacks some crucial qualities and foremost it lacks content.

Mikoto wrote: »

jeevin wrote: »

Seraphyel wrote: »

TehMagnus wrote: »

If ESO only releases Imperial City by the end of 2015 and no new meaningful updates come, especially for people who are allready at end game (more trials/arenas etc) most of the people who are "Playing ESO because despite it's shortcomings, it's the best MMO out there ATM", will just leave & play Black Desert which is looking so much better in terms of gameplay, classes (no dedicated tank/healer) and combat systems.

If ZOS doesn't push more content soon, it's going to loose PC players because it will no longer be "the best option available"

This.

I don't know how Zenimax will handle this. Either the PC playerbase is so insignificant that it really doesn't matter or some guys working for Zenimax are just id*ots.

sk8ingeckoub17_ESO wrote: »

Believe it or not having dedicated tanks and healers is actually a great thing for a game and makes for far better content dungeon wise. If all of us wanted to play a game without dedicated tanks and healers and all that we would be on gw2....

Be sure that more players are on GW2 than on ESO, even after console launch.

Even GW2 is deploying some kind of trinity with their first amazing expansion later this year.

That GW2 expansion has the potential to kill this game on Pc. From the information we have so far I'm very excited!

I find this post rather lulworthy. gw2 at its peak had 400k active people with 900k near launch. Eso reported 700k to 1.2mil without console in the equation. Hell gw2 cant even stand up to destiny and that game is mediocre at best. If gw2 is the eso-killer you're touting it to be then you really need to recheck your stats since gw2 is the most over hyped mmo that ever existed. Solid? Sure but it's not killing anything.

Sad mmo times we must live in if gw2 is being placed as the mmo killer again. I can at least understand black desert because it's well new (even though it's Korean ugh)

And you know that... source? It's peak CONCURRENCY has been 460.000, that's a huge different. 460k players logged in the game at the same time is incredibly successful. 460k players active at the same time leads to maybe 3-4 times total "players". Sure that's a guesstimation, but it's for sure more than ESOs 770k peak in June.

GW2 sold 4 million copies. That's four times more than ESO. And I bet even with the console version ESO won't sell beyond 3 millions, even 3 millions are a quite high estimation.

Heart of Thorns expansion is changing quite much in GW2. It's adding specs to the classes, a total new class, a new character progression system, a handful new zones and many other things - if something is a "relaunch" of a game, it's GW2 HoT.

GW2 was far from perfect, but it was polished in most aspects with a flawless gameplay. That's why it earned critical acclaim and sold over 2 million copies within it's first months.

Are we talking about the same mmo here? Gw2 got those sales by hype alone in fact after the first month the game was dropped heavily by many if not most of the players. So waving around total sold means jack *** which only proves what I have said. It's the most overhyped mmo that came out in recent history.

Considering you're hyping hot so much it seems you're part of that hype train. But hey I'll be waiting here when you return from the amazing and best mmo gw2.

Ps: If you want to see a true relaunch go look at ffxiv. Gw2 hots is only adding onto current systems not changing much of anything.

Theosis · February 2015

This post is a sad reality.

They brought the game out to early. Things that should have been there at launch are still not in game.

Housing, Dark Brotherhood, Thieves Guild, even the Imperial City should have been there at launch.

I also think consul should have been out in the very beginning.

I fear the game will go down in flames but I will stay on the ship till the very end. They should have waiting till it was polished before letting the daedra run free. Instead they are playing catchup while trying to put more into it. They would not have had to go to BtP if they had just done things right.

RainfeatherUK · February 2015

Most of my concerns are generated around other peoples. I mean sure I have my own pet hates here and there (I do about everythinng) but mostly I care about the community. If the majority dont get what they want we arent really going to get far.. and I kinda need people to play with! So I accept that and try and remain unbiased.

I will say though that I like the game alot personally as it is. The PvP, Character progression, even PvE and otherwise (although thats certainly been made too easy overall).

I really dont agree that better gameplay = no tank and healer, as someone stated. I played in a competitive pvp team in Gw2 for structured PvP when it first released (along side Helseth and others for those of you that know them) and absolutely hated the lack of trinity. I left that to come here specifically for the trinitarian style of action based combat that ESO has. I like it, and for the better part I like the changes in 1.6 on PTS.

My fear is more that the game I like, doesnt have that sort of appeal to others; thus affecting the game in general. I dont really like the B2P concept at all- but I did survive gw2 and they are very much still alive over there (pyro If you are reading - I still hate you lol)

The future has some interesting content over the hill. Hopefully when that comes and the 1.6 changes are fully realised people will be a little bit happier. People talk almost as if this game is garbage at times. As if the negative press is barely covering it. Its no way at all like that. I'd like to think thats why we care about it.

So I'll be sat in the Tamriel Foundry guild on EU server for a ways yet. According to some that wont be long, as ZoS are going broke? Haha. Anyways be interested to see who is still here when the time comes

Seraphyel · February 2015

Mikoto wrote: »

Are we talking about the same mmo here? Gw2 got those sales by hype alone in fact after the first month the game was dropped heavily by many if not most of the players. So waving around total sold means jack *** which only proves what I have said. It's the most overhyped mmo that came out in recent history.

Considering you're hyping hot so much it seems you're part of that hype train. But hey I'll be waiting here when you return from the amazing and best mmo gw2.

Ps: If you want to see a true relaunch go look at ffxiv. Gw2 hots is only adding onto current systems not changing much of anything.

What are you even talking about?

Guild Wars 2 has been a huge success. Let the initial sales be "hype-sales", but it sold 2 million copies in the following 2 years after release. That's not what I call hype, that's what I call quality.

Sure GW2 had a big hype and I wasn't as motivated as I wanted to be in the game afterwards, but it's qualities are obvious and that's why it was critically acclaimed.

I said 1.6 is no relaunch for ESO and that HoT is more of a "relaunch" than 1.6 is - but GW2 doesn't need a relaunch, the game has been a success from day 1 on.

Total sold means jack? Yeah. But 460k people logged in at the same time tell something different. There is no doubt that GW2 was more successful than ESO. And with a B2P model you can't measure login times. Sure they dropped, that's normal, but it's success was success when compared to ESO.

But in the end, this topic isn't about GW2. As I said, 1.6 is not even near to something that could be named "relaunch".

ZOS_ShannonM · February 2015

Hey, folks.
We appreciate your constructive feedback about ESO! We've noticed that the thread is starting to veer off topic, and encourage you all bring the conversation back around to ESO.
Thanks!

Mikoto · February 2015

Seraphyel wrote: »

Mikoto wrote: »

Are we talking about the same mmo here? Gw2 got those sales by hype alone in fact after the first month the game was dropped heavily by many if not most of the players. So waving around total sold means jack *** which only proves what I have said. It's the most overhyped mmo that came out in recent history.

Considering you're hyping hot so much it seems you're part of that hype train. But hey I'll be waiting here when you return from the amazing and best mmo gw2.

Ps: If you want to see a true relaunch go look at ffxiv. Gw2 hots is only adding onto current systems not changing much of anything.

What are you even talking about?

Guild Wars 2 has been a huge success. Let the initial sales be "hype-sales", but it sold 2 million copies in the following 2 years after release. That's not what I call hype, that's what I call quality.

Sure GW2 had a big hype and I wasn't as motivated as I wanted to be in the game afterwards, but it's qualities are obvious and that's why it was critically acclaimed.

I said 1.6 is no relaunch for ESO and that HoT is more of a "relaunch" than 1.6 is - but GW2 doesn't need a relaunch, the game has been a success from day 1 on.

Total sold means jack? Yeah. But 460k people logged in at the same time tell something different. There is no doubt that GW2 was more successful than ESO. And with a B2P model you can't measure login times. Sure they dropped, that's normal, but it's success was success when compared to ESO.

But in the end, this topic isn't about GW2. As I said, 1.6 is not even near to something that could be named "relaunch".

Where did in my post I said GW2 failed?

It took the media by storm and went for the biggest group of people that don't care about item chase and raids. People who love GW2 would detest ESO and vice versa, they both cater to two completly different kinds of people. ESO was a sub game so when you wanted to play you must justify if paying monthly was worth which GW2 didn't have [ I do feel ESO should've been B2P since day one + delayed but that's another topic. ] The only thing I mentioned was that GW2 is NOT a MMO killer.

It's been pranced around as such once before and it didn't do anything but carve it's own niche so it sure as heck won't do so again with an 'expansion'. While GW2 is more 'popular' [it's very easy to go back to since no item chase nor no level increase] ESO is by no means a failure that you keep trying to put it as. Does it has it's faults? Of course it does, but so does every MMO in existence. So stop waving the GW2 HoTs flag around like it's the third coming of jesus because it's really not but if it's the amazing MMO that you want then the door is the other way. No one is keeping you here but yourself. There's a big difference between constructive criticism and flag waving.

Anyways, final post about the GW2 MMO killing.

Future of ESO? Too soon to tell, anything can happen. It might not sell on console, it might do so. It might produce a lot of DLC, it might not. All I know is a lot of older players are returning and newer players are going to pick it up once b2p hits the game. Reddit keeps seeing the "I am returning/I am new" post every so often.

Bouvin · February 2015

ESO has seen huge drops in numbers since June.

Just look at the number of pop-capped pvp campaigns there were back in June.

Now the only one that ever caps is Thornblade, and only for EP & AD. ESO Doesn't even have enough players to pop-cap campaigns anymore, even though they've severly lowered the caps as well.

It's pretty obvious numbers are really low. Hopefully B2P will help with that and not destroy the immersion of the game. However, I seriously doubt most of the people who left did so because they couldn't afford $15/month. Probably more likely they just didn't feel like playing the game anymore and if they do return won't stay long in it's current state.

The number of bugs that the game was launched with was just unacceptable for most people. Especially those of use who saw these bugs through many beta tests and that they persisted until launch which is mind boggling. Unfortunately, I think ZOS has accomplished the feat of ruining it's reputation at this point.

Vulix · February 2015

ZOS_ShannonM wrote: »

Hey, folks.
We appreciate your constructive feedback about ESO! We've noticed that the thread is starting to veer off topic, and encourage you all bring the conversation back around to ESO.
Thanks!

Well how about we get an actual response from ZOS for once? Any time one of these threads appears discussing the future of ESO, we either hear nothing or just a moderator message about forum rules.

Mikoto · February 2015

Bouvin wrote: »

ESO has seen huge drops in numbers since June.

Just look at the number of pop-capped pvp campaigns there were back in June.

Now the only one that ever caps is Thornblade, and only for EP & AD. ESO Doesn't even have enough players to pop-cap campaigns anymore, even though they've severly lowered the caps as well.

It's pretty obvious numbers are really low. Hopefully B2P will help with that and not destroy the immersion of the game. However, I seriously doubt most of the people who left did so because they couldn't afford $15/month. Probably more likely they just didn't feel like playing the game anymore and if they do return won't stay long in it's current state.

The number of bugs that the game was launched with was just unacceptable for most people. Especially those of use who saw these bugs through many beta tests and that they persisted until launch which is mind boggling. Unfortunately, I think ZOS has accomplished the feat of ruining it's reputation at this point.

I do know the most said reason was vr. I swear they need to remove vr and pronto keeping it around isn't very safe or smart since they will get a wave of people coming in.

Gidorick · February 2015

Vulix wrote: »

ZOS_ShannonM wrote: »

Hey, folks.
We appreciate your constructive feedback about ESO! We've noticed that the thread is starting to veer off topic, and encourage you all bring the conversation back around to ESO.
Thanks!

Well how about we get an actual response from ZOS for once? Any time one of these threads appears discussing the future of ESO, we either hear nothing or just a moderator message about forum rules.

Asking forum MODs to post on the development process is like asking the guy that mows your lawn questions about your car... just because they're here doesn't mean they have information.

phairdon · February 2015

GW2 was far from perfect, but it was polished in most aspects with a flawless gameplay. That's why it earned critical acclaim and sold over 2 million copies within it's first months. [/quote]

Are we talking about the same mmo here? Gw2 got those sales by hype alone in fact after the first month the game was dropped heavily by many if not most of the players. So waving around total sold means jack *** which only proves what I have said. It's the most overhyped mmo that came out in recent history.

Considering you're hyping hot so much it seems you're part of that hype train. But hey I'll be waiting here when you return from the amazing and best mmo gw2.

[/quote]

Whether or not gw2 is over hyped, the game is still popular. You only need to look at the numbers in level 80 zones, running dungeons, world bosses, dailies etc. Even the lower zones have a reasonable population still, whether through new players or players rolling alts. World vs world is still running, of course the population disparity is still an issue.
All games suffer from people dropping away after the initial release because it's not up to their expectations or does not provide the style of play they are looking for.

Vulix · February 2015

Gidorick wrote: »

Asking forum MODs to post on the development process is like asking the guy that mows your lawn questions about your car... just because they're here doesn't mean they have information.

Read my post again, I never asked the mod directly to give us info

xaraan · February 2015

SG_Celerrimus wrote: »

Here is my prediction for how ESO is going to go about its stuff for a little while in the future:

So, without a doubt, I am feeling that the Imperial City is going to be Update 7, along with the Justice System PvP workings. Update 7 is going to be the big PvP update, with all new revamped PvP stuff, and hey, maybe even they will throw Dueling in there to get the extra points of awesomeness.

I have a feeling that they are going to want to push Update 7 out relatively soon, maybe a month - a month and a half after Tamriel Unlimited, as a large portion of the PvP community is waiting on that Update to come out, its decently popular, and they have talked about it a good number of times.

After that, I can see production slowing down, as B2P is going to be a thing, but I would imagine it would largely be determined by their income through purchases from new players, and the crown store purchases, as they need money in order to hire devs that will make the game DLCs. Maybe Bethesda will swoop in and do some miracle working from time to time, but that is a big maybe, if its even possible.

Update 8 I have a feeling will be the Wrothgar patch, maybe Murkmire thrown in there, although we have barely heard about Murkmire, as far as I know, since Quakecon, so if that is still a thing, or if that is being worked on, remains to be seen.

For the Dark Brotherhood and Thieves guild, well I would say that is relatively up in the air. Maybe it could land in Update 8, maybe 7 (although I would highly doubt it).

They did say that Spell Crafting is not a priority right now (*insert super duper sad face here*), so I would expect that to be put off for Update 9-10, if they decide to start working on it again.

I would imagine Player Housing might be a thing, as its an ES thing, and it has been brought up several times in the past, and with new people coming it might get reignited as a hot topic pretty soon.

After Update 9-10, I would imagine we would start seeing undetailed things, like the stuff shown in the Tamriel Unlimited announcement video,

That is just my thoughts/predictions on where ESO is going after TU launches. I am really hoping they put Spell Crafting back on the front stage for production, but one can only sit back and wait.

Not be a debby downer, but you should probably not get your hopes up too much on some of this stuff. Although I agree that the next major DLC will probably be either Imperial City or Wrothgar (probably Imp City), don't hold your breath on the pvp portion of the justice system - and I mean like, anytime soon. I would also be surprised if we see any DLC until August or later. They don't care that the players that have been here since the start haven't had actual content since November, they care about all the new blood coming in - and those guys won't be ready for more end-game stuff for a couple months at least. This is also why the new added stuff will scale players up, because who knows if they will ever be ready for end-game, we still have players that are leveling and have been subbed since launch.

If they are feeling good, maybe we'll see the second DLC around Christmas season, but don't be surprised if they space out the zones. They have had a good amount of work done on these zones for a bit now and have been sitting on them, if they blow them all out in the first few updates, they won't have time to prep new ones. I think the team is smaller than people think working on this stuff, so I wouldn't be surprised to see DLC like a new vet dungeon with some features tacked on or something in between zone releases. So if they go along those lines, then it will spread out Wrothgar and Murkmire into double digit updates possibly with other smaller DLC or standard updates in between.

Maybe we'll see stuff like shield dye for one of those smaller updates that they do for free that just has fixes and improvements, or some new PvP battlegrounds or something similar. I think once they start getting stuff out and have a better grip on their new schedule with console out of the way, they (and us) will find out more about stuff like justice system pvp, thieves guild, brotherhood and spell crafting.

Seraphyel · February 2015

Mikoto wrote: »

ESO is by no means a failure that you keep trying to put it as. Does it has it's faults? Of course it does, but so does every MMO in existence.

ESO is by many means a failure. Look at the launch. The overall quality of the game. The sales numbers. The sub numbers. How critics reviewed ESO. How fans reviewed ESO. The delayed console version (for 1 year). The missing content. Ancient gameplay mechanics. And the most important thing: the B2P transition.

ESO is getting "good" with 1.6, but to say it wasn't a failure when it was launched is just delusional. You can't tell me that ESO had no hype, lol. ESO was hyped like SW:TOR or GW2 but the overall perception of the game has been less popular than with the other two. Why ESO "failed" the fastes of those three? Because the issues were obvious. From 1-50 there were many severe bugs that kept you stuck in progressing. After that you had the totally horrible VR thing. And finally, the missing endcontent. ESO had like nothing to do until they released Craglorn. And even after that, the PvE endgame content is still poor.

Bouvin wrote: »

ESO has seen huge drops in numbers since June.

Just look at the number of pop-capped pvp campaigns there were back in June.

Now the only one that ever caps is Thornblade, and only for EP & AD. ESO Doesn't even have enough players to pop-cap campaigns anymore, even though they've severly lowered the caps as well.

It's pretty obvious numbers are really low. Hopefully B2P will help with that and not destroy the immersion of the game. However, I seriously doubt most of the people who left did so because they couldn't afford $15/month. Probably more likely they just didn't feel like playing the game anymore and if they do return won't stay long in it's current state.

The number of bugs that the game was launched with was just unacceptable for most people. Especially those of use who saw these bugs through many beta tests and that they persisted until launch which is mind boggling. Unfortunately, I think ZOS has accomplished the feat of ruining it's reputation at this point.

^ said everything needed.

______________

I really hope Zenimax will bring up GOOD DLCs. If they don't, this game is doomed. And they need to bring them up quickly. Day 1 DLC when console version launches would be okay, but to wait another 6 months now for content? No, no, no.

They seem to have some nice ideas for DLCs, but I am still pessimistic because we haven't got anything than short videos and nothing besides that.

Mikoto · February 2015

Seraphyel wrote: »

Mikoto wrote: »

ESO is by no means a failure that you keep trying to put it as. Does it has it's faults? Of course it does, but so does every MMO in existence.

ESO is by many means a failure. Look at the launch. The overall quality of the game. The sales numbers. The sub numbers. How critics reviewed ESO. How fans reviewed ESO. The delayed console version (for 1 year). The missing content. Ancient gameplay mechanics. And the most important thing: the B2P transition.

ESO is getting "good" with 1.6, but to say it wasn't a failure when it was launched is just delusional. You can't tell me that ESO had no hype, lol. ESO was hyped like SW:TOR or GW2 but the overall perception of the game has been less popular than with the other two. Why ESO "failed" the fastes of those three? Because the issues were obvious. From 1-50 there were many severe bugs that kept you stuck in progressing. After that you had the totally horrible VR thing. And finally, the missing endcontent. ESO had like nothing to do until they released Craglorn. And even after that, the PvE endgame content is still poor.

Bouvin wrote: »

ESO has seen huge drops in numbers since June.

Just look at the number of pop-capped pvp campaigns there were back in June.

Now the only one that ever caps is Thornblade, and only for EP & AD. ESO Doesn't even have enough players to pop-cap campaigns anymore, even though they've severly lowered the caps as well.

It's pretty obvious numbers are really low. Hopefully B2P will help with that and not destroy the immersion of the game. However, I seriously doubt most of the people who left did so because they couldn't afford $15/month. Probably more likely they just didn't feel like playing the game anymore and if they do return won't stay long in it's current state.

The number of bugs that the game was launched with was just unacceptable for most people. Especially those of use who saw these bugs through many beta tests and that they persisted until launch which is mind boggling. Unfortunately, I think ZOS has accomplished the feat of ruining it's reputation at this point.

^ said everything needed.

______________

I really hope Zenimax will bring up GOOD DLCs. If they don't, this game is doomed. And they need to bring them up quickly. Day 1 DLC when console version launches would be okay, but to wait another 6 months now for content? No, no, no.

They seem to have some nice ideas for DLCs, but I am still pessimistic because we haven't got anything than short videos and nothing besides that.

That doesn't mean ESO is a 'failure'. Do you want to know what's a REAL Failed MMO? Hellgate London, Global Agenda, APB, WAR. Do you know how many MMOs have released with disastrous launch and managed to make profit for a rather long time? Yes, how they reviewed LAUNCH which was horrible in all aspects. How fans reviewed launch? You mean the people who are returning from launch and saying how good the game is? Lol delays are a good thing in the gaming world, this game sure needed one for the launch but we live in an era that rushing out games is better than delaying so putting that as a negative is frankly dumb. They saw how bad the product was at launch so they took their time to rework for consoles. As for missing content look to the delays, already said the game was rushed. B2P doesn't mean that a MMO failed by any means considering the fact that if you happened to read around you would know it had to be dropped because M$ didn't want to go with ZoS terms with Xbox live. [FFXIV has sub on PS4 but ditch M$ at the curb]

If 400k [lets go with the bare minimum here] people are subbed dishing out $15 a month then ZoS will be getting around 6,000,000. For a game that 'failed' that sure seem a lot. MMOs tend to get better[or worst] with age once they get past the main gate either it'll go up or down is up to the devs, no MMO that's out right now is the same as it was during launch [well maybe a few but they aren't doing too good.]. If the devs are still pushing money into it, promoting it, and updating it then it's by all means not a failure so that is what ESO is in now. Bumpy road? Yes but totaled against a tree on the side of the road? No.

Infact, there's TSW a sub -> b2p game that's hardcore niche yet they still produce updates [issues] on a constant basis that includes voice acting [which isn't cheap] but it still produces profit. ESO isn't going anywhere unless the devs do something ridiculous that will shove the game into a coffin which the only thing we can do is wait and see post-console release.

Seraphyel · February 2015

There is no room for this discussion anymore. The first year of ESO proved one thing and that can't be remarked as a success. And when it hasn't been a success, it has rather been a failure - even the biggest gaming mags and websites rated ESO as an utter disappointment and a financial failure, you know why? Because that's the truth based on facts.

A failure in the past could be turned into success in the future, but we'll see how that ends. I hope they deliver some good DLCs and make the game better, cause even with 1.6 it's far from being great.

That's the last what I have to say about that topic.

Alurria · February 2015

The measure of success or failure in MMOs is really not something you can predict unless you are the "accountant'. I have been there for the closing of a few MMOs it's a sad thing seeing a virtual world shut down. If you are enjoying what you are doing in ESO it's not a failure in your eyes.

I can't pretend that I personally know what's best for this game and really neither can anyone else who plays. I think a wait and see attitude must prevail here. Some games grow in depth and scope (eq2) some do not, (SWG)some take a turn that is down the wrong path (DAoC) to name a few. If you look at games like final fantasy a realm reborn there is hope that ESO can and will grow. But for now all any of us can do is enjoy it or not.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · February 2015

You guys are high if you think this game only has 400k subs. Easily there are over a million subs. The problem is not sub numbers. The problem is how do they release it on the consoles. Thats what lead to B2P. Not dismal sales numbers but the fact they think people on console will not pay a sub.

Seraphyel · February 2015

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

You guys are high if you think this game only has 400k subs. Easily there are over a million subs.

ESOs peak of subscribers was 770k in June. They never ever had 1 million and we know for sure that it steadily decreased since June.

The EU AvA campaigns totally have maybe 10k players. Let it be 15k and another 15k on the US server. That's 30k - where the heck are the other 970k you mentioned?

eacorralesb14_ESO · February 2015

I don't know about the future, but actually this game is pretty solid, and it has a good playerbase, which i have to admite was worse back in release.

The game is better, mroe stable, you can actually enjoy playing it, as long as this remains this way ill be happy to play and pay. Had to quit in july because of the lag/bugs/errors/botters.

But now i find this game pretty good, and i love it!

Mikoto · February 2015

Seraphyel wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

You guys are high if you think this game only has 400k subs. Easily there are over a million subs.

ESOs peak of subscribers was 770k in June. They never ever had 1 million and we know for sure that it steadily decreased since June.

The EU AvA campaigns totally have maybe 10k players. Let it be 15k and another 15k on the US server. That's 30k - where the heck are the other 970k you mentioned?

http://venturebeat.com/2014/10/23/the-10-highest-grossing-online-pc-games-in-2014-hearthstone-dota-2-cant-compete-with-league-of-legends/

By october it was reported to have made 111m which translates to around 1.2 or 1.1 million subs, give or take. I take it that's the source the person was using, I remember seeing it floating around a bit.

Khami · February 2015

Vulix wrote: »

ZOS_ShannonM wrote: »

Hey, folks.
We appreciate your constructive feedback about ESO! We've noticed that the thread is starting to veer off topic, and encourage you all bring the conversation back around to ESO.
Thanks!

Well how about we get an actual response from ZOS for once? Any time one of these threads appears discussing the future of ESO, we either hear nothing or just a moderator message about forum rules.

Haven't you noticed by now, this dev team has no clue about the future of ESO. They're too busy worrying about the console release to care about the PC players. They can't repeat the same mistakes they did with the PC launch. Even though they can't release an update without adding more bugs. Like the bow-legged shuffle that happened some time between November and January.

If coding for the consoles were easy, the console would have released on 4 April 2014 with the PC version. It's obvioius to me, this dev team has zero clue on what to do. Must be nice to demo the same stuff during conversion season two years in a row. Most of the stuff they demo'ed last year, isn't in the game yet. So , they get to demo it again.

How lovely!

Khami · February 2015

eacorralesb14_ESO wrote: »

I don't know about the future, but actually this game is pretty solid, and it has a good playerbase, which i have to admite was worse back in release.

The game is better, mroe stable, you can actually enjoy playing it, as long as this remains this way ill be happy to play and pay. Had to quit in july because of the lag/bugs/errors/botters.

But now i find this game pretty good, and i love it!

The botters were gone before July. The lag has gotten worse, not better. There are still bugs all over the place and I still get the same errors I got during beta. Like the group leader bug where the leader is unable to invite anyone else or the can't log out while in combat and I wasn't trying to log out. Now my characters do a blow-legged shuffle.

The game has a serious lack of content issue this game isn't going to resolve until console players get their copy. So, PC player wait, wait, and wait for new content. 1 dungeon in November isn't enough to whet my appetite for content. Which means you must go back to September's update for any substantial content. Then it was only 1/3 of the zone they released back in May.

Seraphyel · February 2015

Mikoto wrote: »

http://venturebeat.com/2014/10/23/the-10-highest-grossing-online-pc-games-in-2014-hearthstone-dota-2-cant-compete-with-league-of-legends/

By october it was reported to have made 111m which translates to around 1.2 or 1.1 million subs, give or take. I take it that's the source the person was using, I remember seeing it floating around a bit.

Sure ~ 1 million subs but they didn't sell one copy of the game in the end? 111m are made of sales AND subs. And now please calculate.

I'll help you:

500k subs for every month since release would make: 5 (months) x $13 x 500.000 = ~ 32 million. So, they at least sold 500.000 copies for an average price of - let's take a guesstimate because of Deluxe and Standard - $60. That makes at least 30 million from initial sales. So, we have $62 million, $50 million missing.

Let's make it with better adjustments:

Sales:
1 million -> $60 million

Subs:
highest peak: 770k (that's the number to start with)
June: 770k x $13 = $10 million
July: 600k x $13 = $8 million
August: 500k x $13 = $6,5 million
September: 400k x $13 = ~ $5 million
October: 300k x $13 = ~ $4 million

----> ~ $35 million + $60 million = $95 million

If you adjust it a little with the exchange rate of € and $ there you have your $111 million.

As you can see, ESO never could have had 1 million subs for a longer time span within the mentioned months, it's not possible based on a simple calculation. And as mentioned above, the sub-peak has been 770k.

stefan.gustavsonb16_ESO · February 2015

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

You guys are high if you think this game only has 400k subs. Easily there are over a million subs.

I would be very interested in hearing your reasoning behind this. I disagree very strongly. In fact, I think the game has much less than 400k subscribers at the moment, and I am definitely not high. I am looking at what I see in the game, both in regular levels, Cyrodiil and the VR zones, and I see absolutely no evidence of this being the crowded game you think this is.

Mikoto · February 2015

Seraphyel wrote: »

Mikoto wrote: »

http://venturebeat.com/2014/10/23/the-10-highest-grossing-online-pc-games-in-2014-hearthstone-dota-2-cant-compete-with-league-of-legends/

By october it was reported to have made 111m which translates to around 1.2 or 1.1 million subs, give or take. I take it that's the source the person was using, I remember seeing it floating around a bit.

Sure ~ 1 million subs but they didn't sell one copy of the game in the end? 111m are made of sales AND subs. And now please calculate.

I'll help you:

500k subs for every month since release would make: 5 (months) x $13 x 500.000 = ~ 32 million. So, they at least sold 500.000 copies for an average price of - let's take a guesstimate because of Deluxe and Standard - $60. That makes at least 30 million from initial sales. So, we have $62 million, $50 million missing.

Let's make it with better adjustments:

Sales:
1 million -> $60 million

Subs:
highest peak: 770k (that's the number to start with)
June: 770k x $13 = $10 million
July: 600k x $13 = $8 million
August: 500k x $13 = $6,5 million
September: 400k x $13 = ~ $5 million
October: 300k x $13 = ~ $4 million

----> ~ $35 million + $60 million = $95 million

If you adjust it a little with the exchange rate of € and $ there you have your $111 million.

As you can see, ESO never could have had 1 million subs for a longer time span within the mentioned months, it's not possible based on a simple calculation. And as mentioned above, the sub-peak has been 770k.

I said I think that's where the OP got his source from not that I'm using it myself which I made bold.

Gix · February 2015

SG_Celerrimus wrote: »

Here is my prediction for how ESO is going to go about its stuff for a little while in the future:

You predictions seem more like wishful thinking to me.

TehMagnus · February 2015

sk8ingeckoub17_ESO wrote: »

TehMagnus wrote: »

If ESO only releases Imperial City by the end of 2015 and no new meaningful updates come, especially for people who are allready at end game (more trials/arenas etc) most of the people who are "Playing ESO because despite it's shortcomings, it's the best MMO out there ATM", will just leave & play Black Desert which is looking so much better in terms of gameplay, classes (no dedicated tank/healer) and combat systems.

If ZOS doesn't push more content soon, it's going to loose PC players because it will no longer be "the best option available"

Although i dont disagree with you that people will jump ship from the pc platform if they dont release new endgame content this year i doubt it will be to a game that has no trinity.

Believe it or not having dedicated tanks and healers is actually a great thing for a game and makes for far better content dungeon wise. If all of us wanted to play a game without dedicated tanks and healers and all that we would be on gw2....

No trinity + dynamic combat system would actually help a lot of people and solve one of the biggest problems many MMOs have: Most people want to DPS and finding good dedicated Healers or Tank is hard.

GW2 had many other shortcomings that made it fail, sure wasn't the fact there was no trinity.

But yeah, there are other games coming like Camelot unchained or Everquest Next where people might also go, but tbh they don't look as nice and interesting as Black Desert IMO (although Black Desert could be ruined by P2W depending on the direction the store takes, then again it's the same for ESO now) .

TehMagnus · February 2015

Mikoto wrote: »

Eso reported 700k to 1.2mil without console in the equation.

I'm no fan of GW2, preordered it and was terribly disappointed by it, but the game felt much more alive than ESO ever felt in regard of # of players. Moreover the 700k and 1,2mil where SALES estimations by a third party website with shady counting methods that removed those claims from it's website, thus no "Eso reported" and prolly not true as well.

Tankqull · February 2015

TehMagnus wrote: »

sk8ingeckoub17_ESO wrote: »

TehMagnus wrote: »

If ESO only releases Imperial City by the end of 2015 and no new meaningful updates come, especially for people who are allready at end game (more trials/arenas etc) most of the people who are "Playing ESO because despite it's shortcomings, it's the best MMO out there ATM", will just leave & play Black Desert which is looking so much better in terms of gameplay, classes (no dedicated tank/healer) and combat systems.

If ZOS doesn't push more content soon, it's going to loose PC players because it will no longer be "the best option available"

Although i dont disagree with you that people will jump ship from the pc platform if they dont release new endgame content this year i doubt it will be to a game that has no trinity.

Believe it or not having dedicated tanks and healers is actually a great thing for a game and makes for far better content dungeon wise. If all of us wanted to play a game without dedicated tanks and healers and all that we would be on gw2....

No trinity + dynamic combat system would actually help a lot of people and solve one of the biggest problems many MMOs have: Most people want to DPS and finding good dedicated Healers or Tank is hard.

GW2 had many other shortcomings that made it fail, sure wasn't the fact there was no trinity.

But yeah, there are other games coming like Camelot unchained or Everquest Next where people might also go, but tbh they don't look as nice and interesting as Black Desert IMO (although Black Desert could be ruined by P2W depending on the direction the store takes, then again it's the same for ESO now) .

for me GW2 failed because of the lack of the trinity. as pve is heavily watered down to reflect the non exiting reliable heals. pvp is dull because you´ll not have to execute any tactics. you cannot overcome forces of higher numbers by good teamplay in form of killing your enemys supporters while you keep yours alive etc.
im not saying GW2 was utter rubbish, it definatly has its fans - but i´m not among them. and it told me that i will never again play a game without the trinity.