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"Game Performance in Cyrodiil" OFFICIAL POST

Kevinmon
Kevinmon
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Simple as this folks... your out of date add-ons are causing the scrollbacks and server crashes.
Game performance improvements are something we are constantly working on as a team, especially for Cyrodiil and other heavy-load scenarios. It's an important ongoing effort for us, and it's one for which your feedback is critical. We've read your recent feedback about game performance in Cyrodiil and understand how frustrating it is to have your abilities or character become unresponsive in the midst of a huge, important battle. We want you to know we do read your feedback, and we are dedicated to continuing our efforts to improve your overall experience.

There are a few key things we need everyone to know. When a large number of players clumps together and spams PFX-heavy abilities, it will cause slow-down. We've put in a number of fixes and tools to help reduce this, but the reality is there will always be some slow-down when this happens.

We've been tracking crashes in Cyrodiil, and the number one client crash we see come through our crash reporting tool is one that occurs due to broken or out-of-date add-ons. If you are frequently crashing in Cyrodiil, we strongly urge you to try playing with and without your add-ons to see if you experience any noticeable difference in crash frequency and game performance.

All that said, let's take a look at where we're at with efforts to improve game performance.

What have we done so far?
  • We've fixed quite a few issues where effects were failing to clean up as they should. This has improved performance related to ability effects, but it is an ongoing effort.
  • We put in a PFX slider to help with game performance in heavy combat situations where there is a high amount of PFX simultaneously firing off. Dropping this down to the minimum setting can help with lag in crowded areas. (Reducing graphics settings in general can provide better performance when in Cyrodiil, too.)
  • The removal of Forward Camps has cut down on some of the player-character pile-up, which has helped game performance in Cyrodiil.
What more are we doing?
  • Evaluating ability particle effects and fixing any issues we find with effects failing to clean up, or being too taxing, is an ongoing effort.
  • We have a fix going in today (1.5.5) that will fix a region crash issue in Cyrodiil which was related to a scenario where someone could teleport to Wayshrines while still targeted for an attack (this could not be done on purpose—it just happened sometimes.)
  • We have a fix for the issue where the game client gradually slows down over time when weapon swapping. We’re aiming to get this fix into the next incremental patch (1.5.6.)
  • Our QA team hops onto the live servers to observe, take metrics, and report back on anything unusual they see.
If you are encountering severe lag, crashes, or unresponsive abilities in Cyrodiil, there are a few bits of info we'd like to get from you to help us further improve your experience.
  • Do you have your PFX slider turned all the way down, to minimize particle effects load?
  • Do you have your graphics turned down? If so, what are they turned down to?
  • Are you using any add-ons? If so, which ones? (We are not trying to place blame on add-ons; rather, knowing which ones people are using may help us pinpoint potential issues.)
We hope that helps explain our past, current, and future efforts to improve game performance, particularly in Cyrodiil. Thanks again for your ongoing feedback and support.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Names in Thread Titles]
  • Garetth
    Garetth
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    LOL!!!

    Add-ons killing PVP!!

    Read all about it!
    Edited by Garetth on November 18, 2014 5:14AM
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  • Columba
    Columba
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    actually, it seem possible.
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  • Ophindis
    Ophindis
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    Add ons killing pvp is a whole lot more likely than every single persons router being in shambles.
    Half the harm that is done in this world is caused by people who have power and want to feel important. They do not mean to do harm; they are simply absorbed in the useless struggle to think well of themselves.

    The other half are trolls :s
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  • Lfehova
    Lfehova
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    If it was only crashes plaguing PvP, I'd believe this add-on hoohah, and disable all of my add-ons. But I don't crash that often. Instead it's crippling server lag where everybody's skills become unresponsive, no damage registers, etc.

    Today, NM made a heavy effort to keep double teams from happening. Hitting AD and EP whenever too many people started piling up. We also made an effort to stay away from all other DC pug groups, to try to prevent too many people balling up in one place.

    I think tonight's thornblade play was some of the best in awhile. There was some pretty bad lag at one point, when EP/AD were balling up at alessia, and DC was balling up at roebeck vs AD. So we made an effort to hit chalman and split up some of the zergballs. The lag was alleviated when we managed to pull some EP away.

    Organized guilds, who care more about the health of PvP and a lagfree campaign, please do the same. Sometimes, winning a campaign, getting points on some meaningless scoreboard, comes at too great a cost. It's not worth lagging out the entire server and making the game unplayable, for one keep a few score points an hour.

    We play this game for fun, and whether we wipe or get wiped, it's not fun if we're lagging with unresponsive skills.

    Try this solution until ZoS can fix their servers. These "massive battles" they promised are definitely a no-go right now. So let's try to avoid them until they can get their crap fixed.
    Characters: Hovaling/Lfehova/Hova-kun/Hovalicious
    Class: DK/DK/Sorc/Templar
    Guild: No Mercy
    Alliance: Daggerfall

    Characters after rename: BROVALING/Baka-kun/Brovalicious (Lfehova is now a retired DK and spends his days crafting)
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  • Nacario
    Nacario
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    Guess Ill try to disable some of my AddOns. Though Im not going to lesser my graphic settings, thats a no can do, Ill stick with max settings with sweetfx <3
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  • Roselle
    Roselle
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    We've been tracking crashes in Cyrodiil, and the number one client crash we see come through our crash reporting tool is one that occurs due to broken or out-of-date add-ons. If you are frequently crashing in Cyrodiil, we strongly urge you to try playing with and without your add-ons to see if you experience any noticeable difference in crash frequency and game performance.
    Would work if the default UI actually gave me vital information I needed when I PVPed.

    This one was rekt by Zenimax
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  • Sleep
    Sleep
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    JF means client crash. What about server crash?
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  • bertenburnyb16_ESO
    bertenburnyb16_ESO
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    Roselle wrote: »
    We've been tracking crashes in Cyrodiil, and the number one client crash we see come through our crash reporting tool is one that occurs due to broken or out-of-date add-ons. If you are frequently crashing in Cyrodiil, we strongly urge you to try playing with and without your add-ons to see if you experience any noticeable difference in crash frequency and game performance.
    Would work if the default UI actually gave me vital information I needed when I PVPed.

    this
    lacking ui forces us to use add ons wich Zos breaks every update they do, and then they blame add ons...
    btw the lag and crashes on EU server are totally out of wack and not only in Cyro, fixitfixitfixit
    Haze Ramoran Dunmer Dragonknight Tank/Dps – Smoked-Da-Herb Saxheel Templar Tank/Healer

    Red Diamond, Protect us 'til the end (EU EP Thorn)
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  • Insurrektion
    Insurrektion
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    Hey here's an idea. I do not know if it;d actually work because it'd take some fancy programming that I don't even know if it exists, but if this pfx slider had the option to slide on it's own if you checked a box to let it do that so you don't have to, if the game detects your system is experiencing performance issues. So you check the box, and run around and everything looks sharp. Then you get into a big battle and slowdown starts and the slider automatically starts lowing graphics settings to compensate for gameplay slowdown to keep things running smoothe.

    That said, folks there's a lot of things that can happen to your system and everything seems to be blamed on lag so I'll say it again.

    Unresponsive or massive delay in your actions: This is lag. Check speedtest.net to see if it's on your end. If we had the ip address for ZOS servers you could run a remote ping to them to see if there's an issue with back-and-forth signal traffic, but I don't think we have that information (which is probably a good thing otherwise they'd probably get DDoS'd like a lot of other online games are having issues with right now).

    Choppy gameplay/occasional brief freezing: This is your hardware, probably your graphics card. Either it cannot handle the load you are putting it under or it's getting too hot. Try lowering your graphics settings. If this doesn't fix the issue or help it to an acceptible standard, it is almost definitely that it's too hot and you need to turn your computer off for a while. You should also consider upgrading to a more powerful graphics card and aftermarket cooling for it.
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  • MormondPayne_EP
    MormondPayne_EP
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    Oh, bullsh!t.

    I have a shed load of add-ons and my client rarely crashes. What happens constantly is the game lags out to the point where all other characters and the in game world stops updating. I will then get the "unknown error" message and be dropped back to the login screen.

    This ALWAYS happens during large battle and happens with and without any add ons.

    Terrible.
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  • tengri
    tengri
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    Kevinmon wrote: »
    Simple as this folks... your out of date add-ons are causing the scrollbacks and server client crashes.

    Fixed that for you. And you are welcome.

    Maybe you should read it again so you would understand what she said before throwing wild speculations around.
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  • kevlarto_ESO
    kevlarto_ESO
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    Ophindis wrote: »
    Add ons killing pvp is a whole lot more likely than every single persons router being in shambles.

    I agree, and Paul Sage even said on the twitch show that one of the problems, is a high concentration of players in one area. I have had some huge two faction battles at a keep no lag great fighting, third faction showed up with a large force and boom lag fest.

    Since camps are mostly gone, as players die off I notice after awhile that the lag starts to let up a bit, but I would not be surprised about the out of date add-ons, as part of the problem.

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  • Rylana
    Rylana
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    I am actually starting to worry if this isnt a compounding error in their databases.

    Something similar happened in another game. A fundamental flaw caused database entries to get progressively longer and bigger, building on the last one, until eventually the whole system could no longer function. Essentially it was trying to call everything the players had ever done in that session simultanously, and caused the hardware to exceed limits.

    its pretty hard to explain, but I am concerned there is a fundamental flaw deep in their architecture or base source code thats causing something they dont even realize is happening, that will continue to happen until something major breaks internally they are no longer able to recover or fix.
    @rylanadionysis == Closed Beta Tester October 2013 == Retired October 2016 == Uninstalled @ One Tamriel Release == Inactive Indefinitely
    Ebonheart Pact: Lyzara Dionysis - Sorc - AR 37 (Former Empress of Blackwater Blade and Haderus) == Shondra Dionysis - Temp - AR 23 == Arrianaya Dionysis - DK - AR 17
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    Daggerfall Covenant: Dannika Dionysis - DK - AR 21 == The Catman Rises - Temp - AR 15 (Former Emperor of Blackwater Blade)
    Forum LOL Champion (retired) == Black Belt in Ballista-Fu == The Last Vice Member == Praise Cheesus == Electro-Goblin
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  • MormondPayne_EP
    MormondPayne_EP
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    Rylana wrote: »
    I am actually starting to worry if this isnt a compounding error in their databases.

    Something similar happened in another game. A fundamental flaw caused database entries to get progressively longer and bigger, building on the last one, until eventually the whole system could no longer function. Essentially it was trying to call everything the players had ever done in that session simultanously, and caused the hardware to exceed limits.

    its pretty hard to explain, but I am concerned there is a fundamental flaw deep in their architecture or base source code thats causing something they dont even realize is happening, that will continue to happen until something major breaks internally they are no longer able to recover or fix.

    Hahahah this reminds me of the Architect's speech from Matrix Reloaded...

    "Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent to the programming of the Matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly, which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden assiduously avoided, it is not unexpected, and thus not beyond a measure of control, which has led you, inexorably, here."
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  • Mountain_Dewed
    Mountain_Dewed
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    Now I'm hearing rumors of an actual lag group that has it all figured out and can cause the lag because of the size of group and know how to deal with it and take keeps with it. Is this the new thang or just rumor?
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  • Durham
    Durham
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    Its been figured out for some time...
    PVP DEADWAIT
    PVP The Unguildables
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  • Armitas
    Armitas
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    Add-ons are the only thing that is propping up the barebones UI and interface. If they are worried about add-ons causing the lag then put them in the UI to begin with.
    Retired.
    Nord mDK
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  • Turelus
    Turelus
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    Considering we have members who don't use any add-ons (I know, they're crazy) and they suffer the same crippling levels of lag as everyone else.

    I'm going to go out on a hunch and say this has nothing to do with add-ons.
    @Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
    "Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."
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  • Elsonso
    Elsonso
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    What they said:
    the number one client crash we see come through our crash reporting tool is one that occurs due to broken or out-of-date add-ons. If you are frequently crashing in Cyrodiil, we strongly urge you to try playing with and without your add-ons to see if you experience any noticeable difference in crash frequency and game performance.

    What the forum heard:
    All problems in Cyrodiil, but mostly lag problems, are caused by addons, which you should stop using.
    PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
    XBox EU/NA: @ElsonsoJannus
    X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus
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  • Zershar_Vemod
    Zershar_Vemod
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    So pretty much they are just continuing to say the issue is add-ons...?

    Some add-ons wouldn't be out of date if the game didn't fall apart for months at a time and gave no "reward" to all the endless grinds..

    Latest update brought me back (though I was mainly busy anyway and didn't have time for TESO) and I love how much smoother progression is and renew my overall liking of TESO...but the damage is done with a ton of people gone already. I only use two add-ons for book and skyshard locations - hasn't been an update for either for ages now.. :/

    Would have been nice if Zenimax prepared for add-on based issues when they gave the greenlight to use add-ons in the game or didn't force the creators of the add-ons to update them so frequently it makes them quit quickly....or you know, prepped more with the PvP aspect of the game instead of nerfing it over time.
    House Nyssara (NA)
    Black Market Traders
    Order of the Lamp Post
    Thorn Brigade
    VR15 Nightblade Vampire
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  • Valymer
    Valymer
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    I disabled all addons and lowered graphics to Low, and I crashed within 1.5 hours in Cyrodiil yesterday.

    How do you explain that, I wonder?
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  • LonePirate
    LonePirate
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    Lfehova wrote: »
    I think tonight's thornblade play was some of the best in awhile. There was some pretty bad lag at one point, when EP/AD were balling up at alessia, and DC was balling up at roebeck vs AD. So we made an effort to hit chalman and split up some of the zergballs. The lag was alleviated when we managed to pull some EP away.

    I was part of the EP crew battling AD at the back flag in Alessia during last night's lag event. It looked like there were at least 15-20 players from both factions crowded into a circle with a radius of no more than a few feet. I could only see black shadows representing my EP comrades and yellow outlines highlighting the AD players within the sea of black.

    Particle effects were largely non-existent but people were constantly firing skills judging by the non-stop synergy prompts I kept receiving. Enemy health bars were largely static as was my own. My Magicka and Stamina bars seldom dropped more than 25% despite excessive use.

    This standoff lasted a good 5-10 minutes, maybe longer as I didn't watch a clock during the battle. Then a kill for my sorc bounty quest appeared on screen. Then another one and another. The lag started to dissipate and several more bounty kills flashed on my screen. A few seconds later it was over. Most of my EP allies survived but the AD bodies littering the floor quickly disappeared as they re spawned elsewhere.

    I honestly have no idea what turned the stalemate into an EP victory. I'm guessing EP wiped the AD around the other parts of Alessia and repaired the walls which stranded the AD crew at the back flag, allowing them to be picked off by bows and melee attacks.

    I am really surprised the server did not crash during that event given how long it played out with no progress for either faction. Also, the entire fight was simultaneously fun and frustrating which I cannot explain or understand why.
    Edited by LonePirate on November 18, 2014 3:01PM
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  • Talcyndl
    Talcyndl
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    People need to L2R (Read). She said the number one cause of CLIENT crashes they see are addons. That has zero to do with scroll backs.
    Tal'gro Bol
    PvP Vice Officer [Retired] and Huscarl of Vokundein
    http://www.legend-gaming.net/vokundein/
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  • Elsonso
    Elsonso
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    Talcyndl wrote: »
    People need to L2R (Read). She said the number one cause of CLIENT crashes they see are addons. That has zero to do with scroll backs.

    Want to add: It also does not mean that there are not other causes for client crash.

    PC NA/EU: @Elsonso
    XBox EU/NA: @ElsonsoJannus
    X/Twitter: ElsonsoJannus
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  • Poxheart
    Poxheart
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    Talcyndl wrote: »
    People need to L2R (Read). She said the number one cause of CLIENT crashes they see are addons. That has zero to do with scroll backs.

    Zenimax needs to learn 2 read. People aren't complaining about client crashes, they're complaining about lag making the game unplayable.
    Unsubbed and no longer playing, but still checking the Alliance War forum for the lulz.

    Pox Dragon Knight
    Poxheart Nightblade
    The Murder Hobo Dragon Knight - Blackwater Blade
    Knights of the WhiteWolf
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  • Weberda
    Weberda
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    I don't quite know what to make of the add-on thing. I use no add-ons and I experience extreme lag and crash occasionally in PVP Thorn. Are they saying that add-ons cause crashes for the entire population?
    Fernwood, EP Haderus NA
    Lo Behold, AD Thornblade NA (formerly Haderus, inactive)
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  • Talcyndl
    Talcyndl
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    Poxheart wrote: »
    Talcyndl wrote: »
    People need to L2R (Read). She said the number one cause of CLIENT crashes they see are addons. That has zero to do with scroll backs.

    Zenimax needs to learn 2 read. People aren't complaining about client crashes, they're complaining about lag making the game unplayable.

    Funny, some people in this very thread are complaining about client crashes.

    There have been numerous threads about client crashes.

    Server side lag, Scroll backs and complete server crashes are not the sum total of the issues people have in Cyrodiil.

    The statement discusses all those issues. Too bad people just misread one part and then claim that ZOS are all idiots who don't understand the issues.

    Now whether they actually can fix the issues on their side is another question.
    Tal'gro Bol
    PvP Vice Officer [Retired] and Huscarl of Vokundein
    http://www.legend-gaming.net/vokundein/
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  • Talcyndl
    Talcyndl
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    Weberda wrote: »
    I don't quite know what to make of the add-on thing. I use no add-ons and I experience extreme lag and crash occasionally in PVP Thorn. Are they saying that add-ons cause crashes for the entire population?

    Nope. Just the MAJORITY of the CLIENT crashes that are reported to them through their crash reporting tool.

    And for those that don't understand the terminology Client crashes are those where the server/game keeps working for everyone else, but a particular player's game crashes.
    Tal'gro Bol
    PvP Vice Officer [Retired] and Huscarl of Vokundein
    http://www.legend-gaming.net/vokundein/
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  • Awetopsy1703
    Awetopsy1703
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    Often wondered why ZOS doesn't create their own version of what the add ons do and just patch it into the game and also have it sellectable of which features a player chooses to use or see during gameplay , then no need for downloaded outdated add-ons .
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  • Sallington
    Sallington
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    If a client-side addon is causing a server rollback, ZOS is doing something very, very wrong.
    Daggerfall Covenant
    Sallington - Templar - Stormproof - Prefect II
    Cobham - Sorcerer - Stormproof - First Sergeant II
    Shallington - NightBlade - Lieutenant |
    Balmorah - Templar - Sergeant ||
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