grimjim398 wrote: »Too many choices.
No, stamina users have plenty of instant-attack skills, such as poison arrow. This issue has nothing to do with magicka vs. stamina.Magic users can keep block held down while casting abilities. They can be immune to CC and take reduced damage while doing DPS because of this, which should not be possible. It doesn't make sense, and its just another reason why stamina builds are inferior to magic builds.
Magic users can keep block held down while casting abilities. They can be immune to CC and take reduced damage while doing DPS because of this, which should not be possible. It doesn't make sense, and its just another reason why stamina builds are inferior to magic builds.
When holding block, they player should not be allowed to use any abilities until block is released. Damage checks should also be done when an animation is finished, not when it's started. That should help fix the animation cancelling problem. Its also really silly how you can start charging a heavy attack, move well out of range of the enemy, and still hit them, because you started charging while they were within range...
Good amount of choices. Definitely needs to be removed, at least from Destro staves. I guess it feels "deep" to be able to throw 700+ heavy attacks at the speed of a light attacks.
Circuitous wrote: »This has nothing to do with macros. I don't use macros for any purpose and still make use of animation canceling on a regular basis. Please do not confuse animation canceling with macros.
While it's technically true that macros could be set up for animation canceling, macros do not adequately compensate for lag and the system is easy enough to use that they simply aren't necessary in the first place.
Nox_Aeterna wrote: »Circuitous wrote: »This has nothing to do with macros. I don't use macros for any purpose and still make use of animation canceling on a regular basis. Please do not confuse animation canceling with macros.
While it's technically true that macros could be set up for animation canceling, macros do not adequately compensate for lag and the system is easy enough to use that they simply aren't necessary in the first place.
I dont see many complaining about the pure thing , then again , one cant say if the other person is using a macro or not for sure. People seem to just toss them both together.
With this said , i can understand what you mean, still my choice in the pool would not have changed.
considering it is unintended, and its cheep, allowing you to block and push dps all at once, I really dont like it, you shouldnt be able to push the best dps and also be defensive at the same time...
SCORCE:
sorry about my sorce pic not poping up at first i fixed it lol, but if you look the devs have said its unintentional severtimes,Circuitous wrote: »considering it is unintended, and its cheep, allowing you to block and push dps all at once, I really dont like it, you shouldnt be able to push the best dps and also be defensive at the same time...
SCORCE:
I'll be straight with you: there is absolutely no way this system is unintended. Devs were making use of it in PTS PvP events. Cast time and animation time are acknowledged as separate things.
Whether it's intended to allow higher DPS output, as opposed to allowing you to make defensive choices while attacking (like interrupting an opponent during a channeled spell), that is up for debate. But the system itself is clearly intentional.
sorry about my sorce pic not poping up at first i fixed it lol, but if you look the devs have said its unintentional severtimes,Circuitous wrote: »considering it is unintended, and its cheep, allowing you to block and push dps all at once, I really dont like it, you shouldnt be able to push the best dps and also be defensive at the same time...
SCORCE:
I'll be straight with you: there is absolutely no way this system is unintended. Devs were making use of it in PTS PvP events. Cast time and animation time are acknowledged as separate things.
Whether it's intended to allow higher DPS output, as opposed to allowing you to make defensive choices while attacking (like interrupting an opponent during a channeled spell), that is up for debate. But the system itself is clearly intentional.
Magic users can keep block held down while casting abilities. They can be immune to CC and take reduced damage while doing DPS because of this, which should not be possible. It doesn't make sense, and its just another reason why stamina builds are inferior to magic builds.
When holding block, they player should not be allowed to use any abilities until block is released. Damage checks should also be done when an animation is finished, not when it's started. That should help fix the animation cancelling problem. Its also really silly how you can start charging a heavy attack, move well out of range of the enemy, and still hit them, because you started charging while they were within range...
Circuitous wrote: »sorry about my sorce pic not poping up at first i fixed it lol, but if you look the devs have said its unintentional severtimes,Circuitous wrote: »considering it is unintended, and its cheep, allowing you to block and push dps all at once, I really dont like it, you shouldnt be able to push the best dps and also be defensive at the same time...
SCORCE:
I'll be straight with you: there is absolutely no way this system is unintended. Devs were making use of it in PTS PvP events. Cast time and animation time are acknowledged as separate things.
Whether it's intended to allow higher DPS output, as opposed to allowing you to make defensive choices while attacking (like interrupting an opponent during a channeled spell), that is up for debate. But the system itself is clearly intentional.
The question was phrased around using it to maximize DPS. The response of "Not exactly intended, but not an exploit" makes me think the system itself is intended, but that particular usage of it isn't. Which is pretty much what I was getting at in my previous post.
The developers clearly designed the game such that there is a system of priority, where skill attacks have priority (and thus cancels) over light/heavy attacks, and block has priority (and thus cancels) skill attacks.sorry about my sorce pic not poping up at first i fixed it lol, but if you look the devs have said its unintentional severtimes,Circuitous wrote: »considering it is unintended, and its cheep, allowing you to block and push dps all at once, I really dont like it, you shouldnt be able to push the best dps and also be defensive at the same time...
SCORCE:
I'll be straight with you: there is absolutely no way this system is unintended. Devs were making use of it in PTS PvP events. Cast time and animation time are acknowledged as separate things.
Whether it's intended to allow higher DPS output, as opposed to allowing you to make defensive choices while attacking (like interrupting an opponent during a channeled spell), that is up for debate. But the system itself is clearly intentional.
nerevarine1138 wrote: »Circuitous wrote: »sorry about my sorce pic not poping up at first i fixed it lol, but if you look the devs have said its unintentional severtimes,Circuitous wrote: »considering it is unintended, and its cheep, allowing you to block and push dps all at once, I really dont like it, you shouldnt be able to push the best dps and also be defensive at the same time...
SCORCE:
I'll be straight with you: there is absolutely no way this system is unintended. Devs were making use of it in PTS PvP events. Cast time and animation time are acknowledged as separate things.
Whether it's intended to allow higher DPS output, as opposed to allowing you to make defensive choices while attacking (like interrupting an opponent during a channeled spell), that is up for debate. But the system itself is clearly intentional.
The question was phrased around using it to maximize DPS. The response of "Not exactly intended, but not an exploit" makes me think the system itself is intended, but that particular usage of it isn't. Which is pretty much what I was getting at in my previous post.
It actually more implies that the system wasn't intended, but that it's a natural consequence of the way the combat system has been programmed. They certainly didn't intend "weaving" or animation-cancelling as a mechanic, because it's ridiculous. It's using computing limitations as a bonus to your attack. There's no way any developer would ever intend for that to be a combat mechanic.
That said, it sounds like it would be too hard to fix it, so it's in for now.
see in my book using an "unintended feature" to your advantage is walking a very fine line between cheating and not, id even say it is having your pinky toe on the cheating side.Circuitous wrote: »sorry about my sorce pic not poping up at first i fixed it lol, but if you look the devs have said its unintentional severtimes,Circuitous wrote: »considering it is unintended, and its cheep, allowing you to block and push dps all at once, I really dont like it, you shouldnt be able to push the best dps and also be defensive at the same time...
SCORCE:
I'll be straight with you: there is absolutely no way this system is unintended. Devs were making use of it in PTS PvP events. Cast time and animation time are acknowledged as separate things.
Whether it's intended to allow higher DPS output, as opposed to allowing you to make defensive choices while attacking (like interrupting an opponent during a channeled spell), that is up for debate. But the system itself is clearly intentional.
The question was phrased around using it to maximize DPS. The response of "Not exactly intended, but not an exploit" makes me think the system itself is intended, but that particular usage of it isn't. Which is pretty much what I was getting at in my previous post.
it wasnt out of context, that was the entirety of the conversation, a person asked the question if an attack animation cancling was intended and that was her one and only response on the topic, there was no part of the conversation left out, that was the conversation.The developers clearly designed the game such that there is a system of priority, where skill attacks have priority (and thus cancels) over light/heavy attacks, and block has priority (and thus cancels) skill attacks.sorry about my sorce pic not poping up at first i fixed it lol, but if you look the devs have said its unintentional severtimes,Circuitous wrote: »considering it is unintended, and its cheep, allowing you to block and push dps all at once, I really dont like it, you shouldnt be able to push the best dps and also be defensive at the same time...
SCORCE:
I'll be straight with you: there is absolutely no way this system is unintended. Devs were making use of it in PTS PvP events. Cast time and animation time are acknowledged as separate things.
Whether it's intended to allow higher DPS output, as opposed to allowing you to make defensive choices while attacking (like interrupting an opponent during a channeled spell), that is up for debate. But the system itself is clearly intentional.
What Jessica said was "unexpected" is not this cancellation system itself, but the consequence of this system being a necessary element for competitive play (i.e., in order to maximize DPS as clearly asked by that user).
Please don't take Jessica's quote out of context.
You are simply failing to understand what was unintended.see in my book using an "unintended feature" to your advantage is walking a very fine line between cheating and not, id even say it is having your pinky toe on the cheating side.Circuitous wrote: »sorry about my sorce pic not poping up at first i fixed it lol, but if you look the devs have said its unintentional severtimes,Circuitous wrote: »considering it is unintended, and its cheep, allowing you to block and push dps all at once, I really dont like it, you shouldnt be able to push the best dps and also be defensive at the same time...
SCORCE:
I'll be straight with you: there is absolutely no way this system is unintended. Devs were making use of it in PTS PvP events. Cast time and animation time are acknowledged as separate things.
Whether it's intended to allow higher DPS output, as opposed to allowing you to make defensive choices while attacking (like interrupting an opponent during a channeled spell), that is up for debate. But the system itself is clearly intentional.
The question was phrased around using it to maximize DPS. The response of "Not exactly intended, but not an exploit" makes me think the system itself is intended, but that particular usage of it isn't. Which is pretty much what I was getting at in my previous post.
this ^^Actually, characters do keep blocking while the animation happens if block was held before the ability was pressed. Only abilities that have cast time stop the block. If you get an addon that displays player buffs, the one for block (brace) can be up 100% of the time while using instant cast abilities. Since magic users don't use stamina, then can keep block up much longer while using their magic for offensive. If a stamina user tries this, their stamina will be depleted very fast from trying to be offensive and defensive with the same resource.
As for heavy attacks having longer range, I do not think 10+ meters should be possible for a sword swing. Test it out. Activate a speed buff, start charging a heavy attack beside a neutral creature, and run away while it is charging. No matter where you are, the attack will still land. NPC's can do the same thing. You can sprint by them on a horse and they will start charging a heavy attack. You can be 20 meters away when they finish charging and swing, and the attack will still hit you.
But back to animation cancelling. Having the block buff on yourself should prevent you from casting abilities until it is released, and players should not be allowed to gain the block buff until animations are finished playing.
Circuitous wrote: »Magic users can keep block held down while casting abilities. They can be immune to CC and take reduced damage while doing DPS because of this, which should not be possible. It doesn't make sense, and its just another reason why stamina builds are inferior to magic builds.
When holding block, they player should not be allowed to use any abilities until block is released. Damage checks should also be done when an animation is finished, not when it's started. That should help fix the animation cancelling problem. Its also really silly how you can start charging a heavy attack, move well out of range of the enemy, and still hit them, because you started charging while they were within range...
Any class can attack from block, not just magic users. They're also not blocking while the animation happens. This is a non-issue.
Damage checks are done at the instant the skill is intended to hit - this is their cast time. Some skills have additional animation beyond the cast time after the damage check happens, and this is what you can cancel with blocking.
And furthermore, heavy attacks have substantially longer range than light attacks with melee weapons. This is intentional, and has nothing to do with what range you started charging at. Nor does it have anything to do with animation canceling.Good amount of choices. Definitely needs to be removed, at least from Destro staves. I guess it feels "deep" to be able to throw 700+ heavy attacks at the speed of a light attacks.
Animation canceling doesn't let you do power attacks as fast as light attacks. It just doesn't. It does let you release the power attack sooner, but that's as long as the power attack needs to charge to fire in the first place. You could simply let go of the button earlier and still get it that fast, you don't even need to cancel it with a skill.
I hate to tell you this but it is not an intended thing, dmmg isnt supposed to be applied if the animation is canceled, they just havent fixed it, or decided to roll with it, you say thats out of context, but that is the entirety of the conversation, nothing else was said, and the question asked about the attack canceling, the whole thing, and the response from zos was that it was unintended.You are simply failing to understand what was unintended.see in my book using an "unintended feature" to your advantage is walking a very fine line between cheating and not, id even say it is having your pinky toe on the cheating side.Circuitous wrote: »sorry about my sorce pic not poping up at first i fixed it lol, but if you look the devs have said its unintentional severtimes,Circuitous wrote: »considering it is unintended, and its cheep, allowing you to block and push dps all at once, I really dont like it, you shouldnt be able to push the best dps and also be defensive at the same time...
SCORCE:
I'll be straight with you: there is absolutely no way this system is unintended. Devs were making use of it in PTS PvP events. Cast time and animation time are acknowledged as separate things.
Whether it's intended to allow higher DPS output, as opposed to allowing you to make defensive choices while attacking (like interrupting an opponent during a channeled spell), that is up for debate. But the system itself is clearly intentional.
The question was phrased around using it to maximize DPS. The response of "Not exactly intended, but not an exploit" makes me think the system itself is intended, but that particular usage of it isn't. Which is pretty much what I was getting at in my previous post.
The feature was fully intended. There is no plausible reason otherwise.
What was unintended is not the feature itself, but the necessity to use the feature in order to play competitively by maximizing dps.
You are simply failing to understand what was unintended.see in my book using an "unintended feature" to your advantage is walking a very fine line between cheating and not, id even say it is having your pinky toe on the cheating side.Circuitous wrote: »sorry about my sorce pic not poping up at first i fixed it lol, but if you look the devs have said its unintentional severtimes,Circuitous wrote: »considering it is unintended, and its cheep, allowing you to block and push dps all at once, I really dont like it, you shouldnt be able to push the best dps and also be defensive at the same time...
SCORCE:
I'll be straight with you: there is absolutely no way this system is unintended. Devs were making use of it in PTS PvP events. Cast time and animation time are acknowledged as separate things.
Whether it's intended to allow higher DPS output, as opposed to allowing you to make defensive choices while attacking (like interrupting an opponent during a channeled spell), that is up for debate. But the system itself is clearly intentional.
The question was phrased around using it to maximize DPS. The response of "Not exactly intended, but not an exploit" makes me think the system itself is intended, but that particular usage of it isn't. Which is pretty much what I was getting at in my previous post.
The feature was fully intended. There is no plausible reason otherwise.
What was unintended is not the feature itself, but the necessity to use the feature in order to play competitively by maximizing dps.
while holding block you can cleave, critical rush and uppercut, and most of the 1 handed skills aswell, anyone can do it with any weapon, but it should not be allowed. it is cheep, and so close to cheating it is not even funny.Any class can attack from block, not just magic users. They're also not blocking while the animation happens. This is a non-issue.
Which stamina weapon attack skills are possible if you hold block with your 2h/dual wield weapon and attacking at the same time ???Circuitous wrote: »Magic users can keep block held down while casting abilities. They can be immune to CC and take reduced damage while doing DPS because of this, which should not be possible. It doesn't make sense, and its just another reason why stamina builds are inferior to magic builds.
When holding block, they player should not be allowed to use any abilities until block is released. Damage checks should also be done when an animation is finished, not when it's started. That should help fix the animation cancelling problem. Its also really silly how you can start charging a heavy attack, move well out of range of the enemy, and still hit them, because you started charging while they were within range...
Any class can attack from block, not just magic users. They're also not blocking while the animation happens. This is a non-issue.
Damage checks are done at the instant the skill is intended to hit - this is their cast time. Some skills have additional animation beyond the cast time after the damage check happens, and this is what you can cancel with blocking.
And furthermore, heavy attacks have substantially longer range than light attacks with melee weapons. This is intentional, and has nothing to do with what range you started charging at. Nor does it have anything to do with animation canceling.Good amount of choices. Definitely needs to be removed, at least from Destro staves. I guess it feels "deep" to be able to throw 700+ heavy attacks at the speed of a light attacks.
Animation canceling doesn't let you do power attacks as fast as light attacks. It just doesn't. It does let you release the power attack sooner, but that's as long as the power attack needs to charge to fire in the first place. You could simply let go of the button earlier and still get it that fast, you don't even need to cancel it with a skill.
You are saying any class can attack from block but it is not about a class but the build of a class.
Can you please explain how do you attack with stamina weapon skills in the same time when you hold your 2H or Dual Wield Weapon in front of your head ?
You are simply failing to understand what was unintended.see in my book using an "unintended feature" to your advantage is walking a very fine line between cheating and not, id even say it is having your pinky toe on the cheating side.Circuitous wrote: »sorry about my sorce pic not poping up at first i fixed it lol, but if you look the devs have said its unintentional severtimes,Circuitous wrote: »considering it is unintended, and its cheep, allowing you to block and push dps all at once, I really dont like it, you shouldnt be able to push the best dps and also be defensive at the same time...
SCORCE:
I'll be straight with you: there is absolutely no way this system is unintended. Devs were making use of it in PTS PvP events. Cast time and animation time are acknowledged as separate things.
Whether it's intended to allow higher DPS output, as opposed to allowing you to make defensive choices while attacking (like interrupting an opponent during a channeled spell), that is up for debate. But the system itself is clearly intentional.
The question was phrased around using it to maximize DPS. The response of "Not exactly intended, but not an exploit" makes me think the system itself is intended, but that particular usage of it isn't. Which is pretty much what I was getting at in my previous post.
The feature was fully intended. There is no plausible reason otherwise.
What was unintended is not the feature itself, but the necessity to use the feature in order to play competitively by maximizing dps.