Carry Builds

khajiitNPC

Personally I don’t run any sort offensive proc sets. But, I also don’t have a particular problem with those running them either. I don’t even consider them cheesy because most of them the other bonuses aren’t that great. Also I’ve yet to see a proc set, if you’re properly built, whether in light, heavy, or medium delete me. I’m starting to believe that people who complain about offensive proc sets either have no grasp on resistances — have a hard time proactively healing, or are just straight up garbage at the game. There are obvious trade offs in passive bonuses, most cheesy proc sets lack penetration, or lack damage, also the damage is cut in half through battle spirit. Even in BG I’ve yet to experience a consistent death to things like Caluurions, Velidreth, or any of those sets.

Personally I don’t see the trade off running proc sets when you’ve got sets like New Moon Acolyte, Spriggans, Spinners, Bloodspawn, Troll-King, Shacklebreaker, ect.

But at the same time I don’t pretend as tho the sets I run don’t benefit me just as much if not more.

idk

Outside of defending proc sets what is your point?

MartiniDaniels

Delparis is it you? I mean no offense, just interesting.

I mean:
- magsorc main
- loves mages' fury
- new thread daily
- every thread have a bit of obscurity - i.e. it is unclear if you are serious or trolling

khajiitNPC

It’s called discussion. Different points of views. Is it really that hard to grasp? On the forums you have a lot of people complaining about “carry” builds. I’m just saying — those who rock proc are often giving up better stats to have that “burst” that is typically better with non-proc sets and that those who complain about proc sets need to build better. You guys are daft as F. I’m starting to think you guys are the trolls and aren’t as good at the game as you think you are.

khajiitNPC

Also I main a stamBlade. So not sure where you’re getting your info. Actually I play all classes both stam and mag at pretty competitive level.

khajiitNPC

@idk yes I am defending proc sets and offering and alternate view, from experience I have yet had a proc set delete me while in BG, 1v1, open world, consistently enough for there to be hate. I am saying non-proc builds are typically better in the long run.

idk

khajiitNPC wrote: »

@idk yes I am defending proc sets and offering and alternate view, from experience I have yet had a proc set delete me while in BG, 1v1, open world, consistently enough for there to be hate. I am saying non-proc builds are typically better in the long run.

And proc build should not be superior as it requires less player skill.

I still fail to see the point though as there are two types of complaints about proc sets. One is when proc sets are hitting a little to hard as Sloads did when it was added to the game. That would also include the ability to create a heavy tank build that can still do decent damage due to the use of proc sets. The other is there are people who just like to complain.

You really do not deal with either, especially the first and instead created a warm fuzzy post that does not really say much. That is why I asked what the point was.

khajiitNPC

It’s most likely you have a reading comprehension issue, or maybe aren’t an avid reader of the forums where people constantly cry about procs or if they don’t have a proc it’s somehow superior. Or vice versa. Like I said, I don’t typically run offensive proc sets, but if I get killed by one or it comes up in my recap, it’s typically cuz the player outplayed me and nothing else.

It has nothing to do with them being “carried” by their sets. It might have to do with repositioning, me making a mistake, they have a neat little combo ect, better at AC than me. Like I said it’s open for discussion, and I’m offering up a different point of view. So please stop trolling me. Or at least attack the argument, because I feel like you might have an opinion about it, but you don’t do anything to state your opinion, other than “non proc offensive shouldn’t be stronger”, whatever that means.

If you have an opinion state it instead of feigning you don’t know what I’m talking about when you know exactly what I’m saying.

idk

Out of 8 posts, not including this one, you account for 5 of them. The other person who commented that the post had a bit of obscurity.

So attack me and attempt to belittle me all you want but it does not seem my reading comprehension of experience in the forums is what is at issue.

khajiitNPC

K.

VaranisArano

Did I miss some post complaining about proc sets that this is in response to?

Most of the genuine "carry sets" have gotten nerfed, like pre-nerf Earthgore, Sloads, and Viper. What distinguished those sets from run of the mill forum whining was that lots of players had issues with them and there was very little counterplay even if you were a skilled player.

I do miss the very brief heyday of Tremorscale in the PVP meta. That was so dumb, but also really fun.

khajiitNPC

@VaranisArano well what really distinguished those sets were their ability to crit? Remember that. Lol.

khajiitNPC

Not really sload’s, but viper widow maker*

khajiitNPC

Or red mountain, viper, tremorscale, plus inner rage. Yeah. Those days.

VaranisArano

khajiitNPC wrote: »

@VaranisArano well what really distinguished those sets were their ability to crit? Remember that. Lol.

Proc sets stopped being able to crit back in Homestead.

When it comes to the three I mentioned:
Viper's problem was burst damage. It promptly became non-meta for PVP as soon as ZOS made it a DOT proc instead.

Earthgore had a huge burst heal and removal of all ground based effects. Bad enough on a solo player - completely broken in ball groups. Its still good, but you don't see groups stacking 12 earthgore sets in Cyrodiil anymore since the nerfs.

Sloads had Oblivion damage and a proc condition that let it proc off of pretty much anything, including siege damage and itself.

I suppose Clever Achemist deserves a nod, as the only proc set to get nerfed because players were abusing gear swap addons to artificially buff the proc.

EtTuBrutus

I haven't seen a proc set complaint thread in a very long time. Wtf are u flopping on about it for?

idk

VaranisArano wrote: »

khajiitNPC wrote: »

@VaranisArano well what really distinguished those sets were their ability to crit? Remember that. Lol.

Proc sets stopped being able to crit back in Homestead.

When it comes to the three I mentioned:
Viper's problem was burst damage. It promptly became non-meta for PVP as soon as ZOS made it a DOT proc instead.

Earthgore had a huge burst heal and removal of all ground based effects. Bad enough on a solo player - completely broken in ball groups. Its still good, but you don't see groups stacking 12 earthgore sets in Cyrodiil anymore since the nerfs.

Sloads had Oblivion damage and a proc condition that let it proc off of pretty much anything, including siege damage and itself.

I suppose Clever Achemist deserves a nod, as the only proc set to get nerfed because players were abusing gear swap addons to artificially buff the proc.

Maw of the Infernal was critting maybe 18-24 months ago, well after Zos eliminated the chance to crit from procs. Clearly not intended.

Yes, very good examples of how Zos added counter play to many of the proc sets and made adjusted to other proc sets so they were still useful but not so powerful.

VaranisArano

idk wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

khajiitNPC wrote: »

@VaranisArano well what really distinguished those sets were their ability to crit? Remember that. Lol.

Proc sets stopped being able to crit back in Homestead.

When it comes to the three I mentioned:
Viper's problem was burst damage. It promptly became non-meta for PVP as soon as ZOS made it a DOT proc instead.

Earthgore had a huge burst heal and removal of all ground based effects. Bad enough on a solo player - completely broken in ball groups. Its still good, but you don't see groups stacking 12 earthgore sets in Cyrodiil anymore since the nerfs.

Sloads had Oblivion damage and a proc condition that let it proc off of pretty much anything, including siege damage and itself.

I suppose Clever Achemist deserves a nod, as the only proc set to get nerfed because players were abusing gear swap addons to artificially buff the proc.

Maw of the Infernal was critting maybe 18-24 months ago, well after Zos eliminated the chance to crit from procs. Clearly not intended.

Yes, very good examples of how Zos added counter play to many of the proc sets and made adjusted to other proc sets so they were still useful but not so powerful.

Truth be told, I couldn't remember if the monster sets lost their ability to crit at the same time in Homestead or a later update, and my Google-fu failed to turn anything up. I forgot all about Maw not getting fixed til August 2017. Good catch there!

idk

VaranisArano wrote: »

idk wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

khajiitNPC wrote: »

@VaranisArano well what really distinguished those sets were their ability to crit? Remember that. Lol.

Proc sets stopped being able to crit back in Homestead.

When it comes to the three I mentioned:
Viper's problem was burst damage. It promptly became non-meta for PVP as soon as ZOS made it a DOT proc instead.

Earthgore had a huge burst heal and removal of all ground based effects. Bad enough on a solo player - completely broken in ball groups. Its still good, but you don't see groups stacking 12 earthgore sets in Cyrodiil anymore since the nerfs.

Sloads had Oblivion damage and a proc condition that let it proc off of pretty much anything, including siege damage and itself.

I suppose Clever Achemist deserves a nod, as the only proc set to get nerfed because players were abusing gear swap addons to artificially buff the proc.

Maw of the Infernal was critting maybe 18-24 months ago, well after Zos eliminated the chance to crit from procs. Clearly not intended.

Yes, very good examples of how Zos added counter play to many of the proc sets and made adjusted to other proc sets so they were still useful but not so powerful.

Truth be told, I couldn't remember if the monster sets lost their ability to crit at the same time in Homestead or a later update, and my Google-fu failed to turn anything up. I forgot all about Maw not getting fixed til August 2017. Good catch there!

Pretty sure it hit all proc sets at the same time but yes, my memory is not what it used to be. At worst is was about the same time.

Regardless, you have pointed out admirably how this has been a non-issue recently.

NuarBlack

idk wrote: »

khajiitNPC wrote: »

@idk yes I am defending proc sets and offering and alternate view, from experience I have yet had a proc set delete me while in BG, 1v1, open world, consistently enough for there to be hate. I am saying non-proc builds are typically better in the long run.

And proc build should not be superior as it requires less player skill.

Not sure I agree with this as they don't do anything other offensive sets don't do. The exception was original sloads and how it could proc off itself and maybe viper since its condition was so basic. Every other proc set has had a condition that had to be built around and played around. And anyone who says the word free damage automatically gets flagged as ignorant because the only sets that really count as free damage or do damage without the player are sets no one uses or complained about. As the only sets that do that are like thunderbug, stormknight, and night terror. And most players probably don't even know those exist. Storm knight had a little bit of a hey day so long ago I barely remember it but none have been a factor since BGs have came out fore sure.

Also back when ravager was meta, it plus spriggans deleted people as fast as any proc build. If sloads, red mountain, viper, etc. Were free damage so were ravager and 7th as they technically added (free) damage to all your abilities and heals. In fact I'd say your meta builds now take less skill than many of the proc builds of the past have because they don't require any outside the box thinking or playing. You just do what you do, just better. Really outside of original sloads and viper right at the beginning of morrowind your standard trifecta builds(offensive set, utility set, defensive set) have been better and easier or more noob and mistake friendly. Noobs just don't understand the trifecta usually so they don't run them as often but once they find out about them suddenly they start surviving their mistakes and landing kills. Tank meta has carried more bads than the proc meta ever did.

idk

You make even less sense here. Suggesting proc sets should offer superior to sets that require player skill and basing that on new player not understanding the game.

That makes even less sense than the OP of this thread. They can learn to play or learn to die. You can disagree with me all you want. idc and pretty sure most will dismiss this opinion on the matter as they have the original post.

Zelos

Yes proc sets arent cheese anymore, I mean I only get hit for idk a 10k caluurions from stealth... what's so broken about that?

fred4

Zelos wrote: »

Yes proc sets arent cheese anymore, I mean I only get hit for idk a 10k caluurions from stealth... what's so broken about that?

10K is at the high end. It means you're built as squishy as they come (at least if we're talking in CP) and you probably got hit - randomly - with Caluurion's strongest proc, the fire proc. I play a Caluurion build. Sure it's upfront burst, but the cooldown and the stats I gave up also means you get 10 seconds of easy mode inbetween procs, when I'm a bit of a wet noodle.

If you get ganked, dodge roll. That should be your natural reaction, even on a magicka character. It automatically protects you from Caluurion, because of the proc delay. The only way that won't work is if you get hit with Concealed Weapon from stealth, the only skill in the magblade kit that will proc Caluurion and stun you at the same time. That has all sorts of counters though, chiefly movement and AOE. Standing still is what gets you ganked, but even a shield should protect you in CP. Caluurion is not all that strong, cause it can't crit. Stamblades have been nerfed, but a good one will still gank you harder than I can. In other words, I think Caluurion is pretty balanced (I play in CP). My chances of successfully ganking a good, aware player 1v1 are pretty close to zero.

universal_wrath

Azue blight and BG ball group fights, name a better duo.

Iskiab

Wow, OP created a post to discuss the game. People jumped down the OP's throat because no one wants a discussion and are used to only seeing nerf threads. Maybe this is why there are only nerf threads!

I think you're right OP. When people discuss the game the first thing they do is say 'this happens to me and I'm at x weapon damage and x resistances'. If there's ever a decent proc there are a flood of complaints about it on PTS. It's one part the game, one part player reactions to decent procs when they're released.

Most of the forums is on a paradigm of 'only these things should matter' and complain like hell whenever something doesn't fit that mold, so basicly live is the result. People want it kept simple and for their preferred style to always be on top.

Langeston

I don't understand why everyone's whining about your post, but I understand what you're saying & I agree.

I don't use proc sets of any kind in PVP — offensive or defensive — because when I'm in a tight spot I don't want to have to rely on a RNG to determine how effective my build is. But I don't begrudge those that do use them; they make the game interesting & on the whole they're not particularly unbalanced.

The way I look at it, for all intents and purposes every set is a "proc" set — some just proc at a much higher rate than others & I prefer mine to proc 100% of the time.

In any case, the sets are probably the least unbalanced part of the game right now.