The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Immersive (battle) Pets Concept
Gidorick
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As someone who loves immersion in role playing the purely cosmetic nature of pets tends to make the inclusion of pets feel incomplete.
TL/DR
Pets could be expanded with levels, skills, emotes, and equipment which could allow pets to help us on our adventure, help in combat and take part in player-v-player pet duels across Tamriel.
Topics
Pet Usefulness
As of right now, pets are purely cosmetic in their nature. These little creatures that follow us around could offer a greater degree of usefulness on our travels, becoming traveling companions rather than a fashion accessory. While I would initially agree that certain pets should act differently than others, this concept takes into account that there is only one pet that is attainable in-game without crown-store purchase.
If there were more pets available in game I would have suggested there be different classes of pets with different base attributes. As it is now, it is important that all pets be capable of the same skill sets so that a player cannot simply purchase a large or more aggressive pet to trounce those with small, weaker looking pets.
While this makes it so that a person with a pet lizard could have a pet that is stronger and more capable than a person with a large wildcat pet, it is imperative that this concept (and any like it) be kept from becoming a pay-to-win-mechanic.
Pets, as they adventure with players, should earn levels, gain skills, aid in battle and be able to be placed in duels with other player pets. Think of this as a PVP by proxy kind of situation.
Additional Pets
To support this concept, it would behoove ZOS to add a pet-rewarding quest to the starting zone of each faction. These quests could send the player on a short quest to gain the trust/rescue/chase down a mangy homeless pet. This pet would be the player's introduction to the Immersive Pets mechanic of ESO.
A mangy dog, cat, and bantam guar would not be the most visually appealing of pets but they would prevent this mechanic from being considered "pay-to-win" or unfair since all players would have an opportunity to gain a pet from the onset of gameplay. These pets should be just as capable as any of the other pets that are earnable (one) or purchasable.
Pet Levels, Attributes & Skills
When a player receives a pet, that pet is at level 1 and the player should receive one attribute point to distribute. Pet levels require PXP (Pet Experience Points) that the pet earns for successfully performing their skills, and should not be dependent on the interactions of the player.
Each pet should have a total of 20 levels they can attain. After which, the pet should advance to Pet Veteran Rank… lol… sorry. I just had to put that in there for a giggle. No Pet-Vet Ranks. *ahem* Moving on. hehe.
For each level a pet reaches they should receive 1 Attribute point that is used to level an attribute much in the same way attributes of players are handled. Pets should have a total of 3 attributes that can be leveled, each to a maximum of 20.
Pet Attributes
Pet Skills, of which there are 9, can be increased with Training Points. There are multiple ways in which ZOS could allot Training Points.
Since the total number of Training Points required to increase the skills of pets would increase with the number of pets a player has, and pets would likely be trained cross-characters (pets are shared), using Pet-Shards or something similar wouldn't be an ideal means for players to earn Training Points.
No matter how ZOS handles this, each Pet Skill should be maxed at level 5 with a maximum of 20 Training Points earned per pet. This means that every skill cannot be maxed and players must choose how they want their pet to benefit them.
Pet Skills
Active, slot-able pet skills
Passive pet skills
Pet Menu & Companionship
Selecting a pet outside of battle will activate the pet menu. In the menu the player choose to view menus for the Pet’s Attributes, Skills, Inventory, Reward, and Tricks.
In and out of Pet Duels pet actions are dependent on payer command. Players must slot pet skills to have them perform the desired skill. This requirement would combat the concern that players who do not use pets would be at a disadvantage when compared to those who use pets. Pets would be considered a skill themselves. A player who wishes to have all pet skills available to them would have to use 5 slots on their skill-bars.
As the pet travels around with the player, they can be commanded to fetch and forage. In and out of battle the likeliness that a pet will perform the skill is dependent on the pet's obedience. A pet with obedience skills maxed and forage skills maxed would be an ideal pet for material gathering… but then that pet would only have 15 skill points to spend in the other 5 pet-skills.
Pets should never agro an enemy into combat with the player and, outside of combat, should be ignored by mobs. This shouldn’t be the case while in combat. When a player is in combat their pet should act according to the player's slotted pet skills. A player who has no pet skills slotted will have their pet ignored by the mob and the pet will not help in combat. How often a pet attempts to perform a skill is dependent on their stamina. The success of the performance of that skill is dependent on their obedience. The lower a pet's health, the more likely the pet is to flee in fear, this likeness can be mitigated by increasing a pet's mettle.
If a pet’s health is depleted, they will be knocked out for the duration of the match and can be healed after the battle. During battle, Pets should be damaged by AOE attacks and benefit from AOE healing. Other than healing a pet with an AOE heal, pets should not be able to be selected while a player is engaged in combat.
You’ll notice… Pets do NOT have magic abilities.
Pet Treats
Adding treats in game would allow players to give their pets a temporary boost to one of their attributes or skills. This concept works similarly to how food works with players. ZOS could add new recipes to the game to introduce these treats. These could be both provisioning treats and alchemic recipes.
Pet Duels
Pet Duels would be a new option on the character menu when a player selects another player, right next to trade.
Upon the duel initiation both players see both pets and their level. At this point both players make a wager. A player can accept wager (to raise their wager to the highest wager), raise (to add to their wager), or decline. If a player declines the wager the match ends and there is no fight.
Once both players have accepted the wager, the battle begins. Both players control their pets at the same time and are given a cooldown that is dependent on the pet’s stamina. Once the cool-down finishes the player can activate one of 4 pet skills. This doesn’t mean a pet will always follow their owners command. The likeliness of a pet executing the command given by their master is dependent on a pet’s obedience rating. If a pet is not obedient, it’s no telling what skill the pet will perform.
The 3 pet commands are
Once one of the pet’s health reaches 0, the duel is over and the winner gets the pot. After the battle the pet would need to be brought back to consciousness much in the same way after a regular battle. If a player stores their pet while that pet is knocked out it should remain knocked out if it is activated by another player. Only after a long period of time (a day or so) could a pet regain consciousness on its own.
Pet duels could be illegal in some cities and players who are caught dueling their pets could be subject to wanted levels and bounties.
Pet Equipment
There could also be a mechanic to add pet equipment into the game. Each pet could have one equipment slot that could be filled with various collars. Collars could have positive effects on pet’s attributes or skills. Similar to treats, but the effect would not wear off. ZOS could also include Pet Armor that could be craft-able and could be supported by new motifs. This is entirely dependent on how in-dept ZOS would want to take the pet equipment.
This could very easily work in conjunction with the (hopefully) eventual addition of Jewelry Crafting.
Crown Store
Now for the means by which ZOS makes money on this concept. ZOS could sell any of the following items in the crown store to support and justify this pet mechanic.
Conclusion
Adding these mechanics to the currently cosmetic only pets would add a layer of uniqueness to each pet and would give players the opportunity to have different pets for different gameplay tasks and pets would be an additional gameplay element of ESO. Players who do not wish partake in Pet Duels or to only use vanity pets do not need to train their pet. A pet with no skill points distributed will not interact with the world, will not attack, bully or defend in battle and will therefore not be damaged in battle. These untrained pets will act in the exact manner that pets do now.
One of the largest flaws I see with this concept is that players will ultimately choose pets for material gathering and will pool all 20 points in Forage and Fetch skills and will have other pets for Pet Duels which have 0 points in both Forage and Fetch. I cannot decide if this is a bad thing or not. It would get players to level multiple pets and use multiple pets which would encourage buying more pets in the crown store. So I don't know if it's actually a flaw or not.
@Khaos_Bane posted an idea for pet arenas and @Robbmrp had a poll recently on pet arenas so there is some desire for this kind of mechanic in ESO. I do not think capturing pets out in the wild a-la pokemon style would be necessary since all players can get one "free" pet via questing in the core ESO game. It would be nice if ZOS were to add a pet in each faction somehow so players can get their in-game pet prior to reaching level 50 if they are so inclined.
So what are your thoughts of, suggestions for, or additions to this concept?
Edited by Gidorick on April 15, 2016 11:06AM TL/DR
Pets could be expanded with levels, skills, emotes, and equipment which could allow pets to help us on our adventure, help in combat and take part in player-v-player pet duels across Tamriel.
Topics
- Pet Usefulness
- Additional Pets
- Pet Levels, Attributes & Skills
- Pet Menu & Companionship
- Pet Treats
- Pet Duels
- Pet Equipment
- Crown Store
Pet Usefulness
As of right now, pets are purely cosmetic in their nature. These little creatures that follow us around could offer a greater degree of usefulness on our travels, becoming traveling companions rather than a fashion accessory. While I would initially agree that certain pets should act differently than others, this concept takes into account that there is only one pet that is attainable in-game without crown-store purchase.
If there were more pets available in game I would have suggested there be different classes of pets with different base attributes. As it is now, it is important that all pets be capable of the same skill sets so that a player cannot simply purchase a large or more aggressive pet to trounce those with small, weaker looking pets.
While this makes it so that a person with a pet lizard could have a pet that is stronger and more capable than a person with a large wildcat pet, it is imperative that this concept (and any like it) be kept from becoming a pay-to-win-mechanic.
Pets, as they adventure with players, should earn levels, gain skills, aid in battle and be able to be placed in duels with other player pets. Think of this as a PVP by proxy kind of situation.
Additional Pets
To support this concept, it would behoove ZOS to add a pet-rewarding quest to the starting zone of each faction. These quests could send the player on a short quest to gain the trust/rescue/chase down a mangy homeless pet. This pet would be the player's introduction to the Immersive Pets mechanic of ESO.
A mangy dog, cat, and bantam guar would not be the most visually appealing of pets but they would prevent this mechanic from being considered "pay-to-win" or unfair since all players would have an opportunity to gain a pet from the onset of gameplay. These pets should be just as capable as any of the other pets that are earnable (one) or purchasable.
Pet Levels, Attributes & Skills
When a player receives a pet, that pet is at level 1 and the player should receive one attribute point to distribute. Pet levels require PXP (Pet Experience Points) that the pet earns for successfully performing their skills, and should not be dependent on the interactions of the player.
Each pet should have a total of 20 levels they can attain. After which, the pet should advance to Pet Veteran Rank… lol… sorry. I just had to put that in there for a giggle. No Pet-Vet Ranks. *ahem* Moving on. hehe.
For each level a pet reaches they should receive 1 Attribute point that is used to level an attribute much in the same way attributes of players are handled. Pets should have a total of 3 attributes that can be leveled, each to a maximum of 20.
Pet Attributes
- Health: Increases how much HP a pet has.
- Stamina: Increases how often a pet can perform their skill.
- Obedience: Increases how likely a pet is to follow a command.
Pet Skills, of which there are 9, can be increased with Training Points. There are multiple ways in which ZOS could allot Training Points.
- 1 training points could be granted per level earned.
- Each pet can trainable once per day. This would work similarly to how mount skills are trained, but would be for each individual pet.
Since the total number of Training Points required to increase the skills of pets would increase with the number of pets a player has, and pets would likely be trained cross-characters (pets are shared), using Pet-Shards or something similar wouldn't be an ideal means for players to earn Training Points.
No matter how ZOS handles this, each Pet Skill should be maxed at level 5 with a maximum of 20 Training Points earned per pet. This means that every skill cannot be maxed and players must choose how they want their pet to benefit them.
Pet Skills
Active, slot-able pet skills
- Forage: A pet will gather crafting materials out in the wild. Increasing this skill will increase the radius the pet will travel from the player to forage.
- Fetch: A pet will pull weapons, armor, etc. off of enemies or out of unlocked container. The radius of which is determinate on the Forage Pet Skill. Increasing the Fetch Pet Skill will increase the number of inventory slots the pet has available.
- Attack: A pet will attack enemies if commanded to do so. Increasing this skill will increase the damage a pet will deal.
- Defend: A pet should have the ability to mitigate incoming damage. Increasing this skill will increase the effectiveness of this defense.
- Bully: This ability serves two purposes. In PVE battle it agros the enemy. In PVP battle it lowers the obedience of the opponent pet for one turn and also has a chance to cause the pet to flee. Increasing this skill will increase the effectiveness of the pet’s bully ability.
Passive pet skills
- Dodge: This is the ability of a pet to evade incoming attacks. Dodging would not cause the pet's ability cool down to restart
- Counter: This ability would have the pet retaliate when successfully attacked. Countering would not cause the pet's cool down to restart.
- Vigor: This ability is the chance of the pet's cool down to instantly complete after being attacked.
- Resolve: This ability determines how likely a pet is to flee. The higher the skill, the less likely.
Pet Menu & Companionship
Selecting a pet outside of battle will activate the pet menu. In the menu the player choose to view menus for the Pet’s Attributes, Skills, Inventory, Reward, and Tricks.
- Attributes and Skills menu allows the player to view the attributes and skills, distribute unused points, and slot Pet Skills to their skill bars.
- Pet inventory acts similarly to containers and can only be pulled from and not placed into.
- Pet Rewards are actions such as pet, pat, tussle, and feed treat, etc.
- Tricks are pet emotes such as fetch, beg, lay, roll-over, etc. These can have both pet specific emotes and general emotes.
In and out of Pet Duels pet actions are dependent on payer command. Players must slot pet skills to have them perform the desired skill. This requirement would combat the concern that players who do not use pets would be at a disadvantage when compared to those who use pets. Pets would be considered a skill themselves. A player who wishes to have all pet skills available to them would have to use 5 slots on their skill-bars.
As the pet travels around with the player, they can be commanded to fetch and forage. In and out of battle the likeliness that a pet will perform the skill is dependent on the pet's obedience. A pet with obedience skills maxed and forage skills maxed would be an ideal pet for material gathering… but then that pet would only have 15 skill points to spend in the other 5 pet-skills.
Pets should never agro an enemy into combat with the player and, outside of combat, should be ignored by mobs. This shouldn’t be the case while in combat. When a player is in combat their pet should act according to the player's slotted pet skills. A player who has no pet skills slotted will have their pet ignored by the mob and the pet will not help in combat. How often a pet attempts to perform a skill is dependent on their stamina. The success of the performance of that skill is dependent on their obedience. The lower a pet's health, the more likely the pet is to flee in fear, this likeness can be mitigated by increasing a pet's mettle.
If a pet’s health is depleted, they will be knocked out for the duration of the match and can be healed after the battle. During battle, Pets should be damaged by AOE attacks and benefit from AOE healing. Other than healing a pet with an AOE heal, pets should not be able to be selected while a player is engaged in combat.
You’ll notice… Pets do NOT have magic abilities.
Pet Treats
Adding treats in game would allow players to give their pets a temporary boost to one of their attributes or skills. This concept works similarly to how food works with players. ZOS could add new recipes to the game to introduce these treats. These could be both provisioning treats and alchemic recipes.
Pet Duels
Pet Duels would be a new option on the character menu when a player selects another player, right next to trade.
Upon the duel initiation both players see both pets and their level. At this point both players make a wager. A player can accept wager (to raise their wager to the highest wager), raise (to add to their wager), or decline. If a player declines the wager the match ends and there is no fight.
Once both players have accepted the wager, the battle begins. Both players control their pets at the same time and are given a cooldown that is dependent on the pet’s stamina. Once the cool-down finishes the player can activate one of 4 pet skills. This doesn’t mean a pet will always follow their owners command. The likeliness of a pet executing the command given by their master is dependent on a pet’s obedience rating. If a pet is not obedient, it’s no telling what skill the pet will perform.
The 3 pet commands are
- Attack: The pet will attack the opponent’s pet.
- Defend: The pet will brace and defend the incoming attack. This will reflect some damage back to the attacking pet.
- Bully: The pet will intimidate the opponent’s pet which will decrease that pet’s obedience for the next command and has a chance of resetting the opponent’s cool-down timer.
Once one of the pet’s health reaches 0, the duel is over and the winner gets the pot. After the battle the pet would need to be brought back to consciousness much in the same way after a regular battle. If a player stores their pet while that pet is knocked out it should remain knocked out if it is activated by another player. Only after a long period of time (a day or so) could a pet regain consciousness on its own.
Pet duels could be illegal in some cities and players who are caught dueling their pets could be subject to wanted levels and bounties.
Pet Equipment
There could also be a mechanic to add pet equipment into the game. Each pet could have one equipment slot that could be filled with various collars. Collars could have positive effects on pet’s attributes or skills. Similar to treats, but the effect would not wear off. ZOS could also include Pet Armor that could be craft-able and could be supported by new motifs. This is entirely dependent on how in-dept ZOS would want to take the pet equipment.
This could very easily work in conjunction with the (hopefully) eventual addition of Jewelry Crafting.
Crown Store
Now for the means by which ZOS makes money on this concept. ZOS could sell any of the following items in the crown store to support and justify this pet mechanic.
- Pets (obviously)
- Different Packs of Pet treats
- Pet Training Scrolls (if pet skill points work as mount skills do)
- Pet costumes (which should be able to be dyed!)
- Pet emotes (which could be general emotes for all pets or pet specific.)
Conclusion
Adding these mechanics to the currently cosmetic only pets would add a layer of uniqueness to each pet and would give players the opportunity to have different pets for different gameplay tasks and pets would be an additional gameplay element of ESO. Players who do not wish partake in Pet Duels or to only use vanity pets do not need to train their pet. A pet with no skill points distributed will not interact with the world, will not attack, bully or defend in battle and will therefore not be damaged in battle. These untrained pets will act in the exact manner that pets do now.
One of the largest flaws I see with this concept is that players will ultimately choose pets for material gathering and will pool all 20 points in Forage and Fetch skills and will have other pets for Pet Duels which have 0 points in both Forage and Fetch. I cannot decide if this is a bad thing or not. It would get players to level multiple pets and use multiple pets which would encourage buying more pets in the crown store. So I don't know if it's actually a flaw or not.
@Khaos_Bane posted an idea for pet arenas and @Robbmrp had a poll recently on pet arenas so there is some desire for this kind of mechanic in ESO. I do not think capturing pets out in the wild a-la pokemon style would be necessary since all players can get one "free" pet via questing in the core ESO game. It would be nice if ZOS were to add a pet in each faction somehow so players can get their in-game pet prior to reaching level 50 if they are so inclined.
So what are your thoughts of, suggestions for, or additions to this concept?
What ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
Click HERE to discuss.
Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!
That's right... Horse.
Click HERE to discuss.
Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!
7
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MrDerrikk✭✭✭✭✭
✭Mostly what I saw was Pokemon and illegal animal gambling dens.
I have departed into the great unknown that is outside the game and the forums, and wish you well in your Tamriel adventures!
DC - PC - EU - Australian
VR11 Mrderrikk: Breton Stam Sorc (Vamp) | VR16 Derrikkinblack: Dunmer Mage DK | VR3 Cuts-Until-It-Dies: Argonian Magicka NB
Oh look, Anook.7 -
MrDerrikk✭✭✭✭✭
✭In all seriousness though, I like a lot of these ideas, except for the overarching issue that it'll effectively make Sorc pets even more niche in builds as they're used to take aggro which your normal pet would then do.
I would like to see more use for pets, but with minor benefits like letting them effect Necropotence etc.I have departed into the great unknown that is outside the game and the forums, and wish you well in your Tamriel adventures!
DC - PC - EU - Australian
VR11 Mrderrikk: Breton Stam Sorc (Vamp) | VR16 Derrikkinblack: Dunmer Mage DK | VR3 Cuts-Until-It-Dies: Argonian Magicka NB
Oh look, Anook.0 -
Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Mostly what I saw was Pokemon and illegal animal gambling dens.
When you boil the concepts down.... yep! That's about right. More of a gotta BUY 'em all system than catch though.
What ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
Click HERE to discuss.
Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!0 -
Volkodav✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭WOW! That was one loooong wall of text.Whew! Having said that,I do wish pets would do something,like the Clanfear Scorcs get to help them. As it is,I dont even toggle pets on because they dont even draw enemies off me.0 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I'd be happy if we just had "cosmetic" interactions with pets. Clicking on your pet should let you pet it, feed it, tell it to sit or lie down or even sleep. I kinda don't want a whole new host of "training" options I need to do. I can barely remember to do the horse training as it is! LOL I'm cool with pets being a vanity item.
What I'd really like to see are some "wearable" pets! In Age of Conan one of my characters had a snake that would remain coiled around her upper arm and it did move about a bit which was really cool. I'd give a lot to have that snake back in ESO! LOL Parrots and crows could sit on your shoulder but birds of prey should be carried on a gloved fist. A spider that crawls around in your hair and sits on your shoulder would be fantastically creepy.
I'd also desperately like to see some human/mer "pets"/companions. A bard, a dancing girl (or boy!), a servant, maybe even a ...*gasp*...child! Interactions where they say funny things to you would be great. And yes, skeletons and zombie pets are a must for the "necromancer" crowd! A mournful ghost to "haunt" you would be great too.Edited by MornaBaine on November 20, 2015 12:13PMPAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!3 -
LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
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This is a very nice idea. More interactions with pets and mounts would be great.MornaBaine wrote: »I'd be happy if we just had "cosmetic" interactions with pets.
But I'm against the idea of "useful" pets. I've got some crown store pets, but sometimes I disable them all and dont want my char to be gimped because she's petless, nor do I want to use particular ones I dont like.
Also it would bring a huge P2W issue since pets are designed as a crown store vanity item.Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU2 -
Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I agree that not having pets that are attainable in game is an issue @KoshkaMurka. By the generally accepted definition of pay to win this mechanic would not be pay to win because there is one pet that is attainable in game without paying additional money in the crown store.
I do think there should be more pets earnable in-game... but there is one earnable in game.
What are the reasons you think this would be a pay to win mechanic @KoshkaMurka ?Edited by Gidorick on November 20, 2015 7:59PMWhat ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
Click HERE to discuss.
Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Btw guys there are in game pets that you earn...
They are awarded by doing specific things in dungeons...
I like the ideas though. Maybe have their own mini game?
Im of the position you can never have too much content
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LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I agree that not having pets that are attainable in game is an issue @KoshkaMurka. By the generally accepted definition of pay to win this mechanic would not be pay to win because there is one pet that is attainable in game without paying additional money in the crown store.
I do think there should be more pets earnable in-game... but there is one earnable in game.
What are the reasons you think this would be a pay to win mechanic @KoshkaMurka ?
Because it would be logical if different types of pets had different fighting stats. For example, it would be silly if bantam guar was as strong as a senche panther.
And that pet you mentioned can only be obtained in veteran 9 zone for some of us.
There's 2 more though - 1 for IC dungeon achievement and one drops from Molag Bal (? not sure about that one) so its very unlikely that you will get them early in game. But crown store pets are available right from the start. And yeah, horses are there as well, but horses dont have that many unique properties. If pets would have so many useful options, a player without one will be essentialy gimped. And those of us who dont want to be a pokemon master will also be gimped.
So in my opinion, pets do need more interactive options, but they shouldnt give you any combat/harvesting advantages.
Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU1 -
Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭KoshkaMurka wrote: »I agree that not having pets that are attainable in game is an issue @KoshkaMurka. By the generally accepted definition of pay to win this mechanic would not be pay to win because there is one pet that is attainable in game without paying additional money in the crown store.
I do think there should be more pets earnable in-game... but there is one earnable in game.
What are the reasons you think this would be a pay to win mechanic @KoshkaMurka ?
Because it would be logical if different types of pets had different fighting stats. For example, it would be silly if bantam guar was as strong as a senche panther.
And that pet you mentioned can only be obtained in veteran 9 zone for some of us.
There's 2 more though - 1 for IC dungeon achievement and one drops from Molag Bal (? not sure about that one) so its very unlikely that you will get them early in game. But crown store pets are available right from the start. And yeah, horses are there as well, but horses dont have that many unique properties. If pets would have so many useful options, a player without one will be essentialy gimped. And those of us who dont want to be a pokemon master will also be gimped.
So in my opinion, pets do need more interactive options, but they shouldnt give you any combat/harvesting advantages.
The idea that "some people wouldn't want to do it so it shouldn't be added" is wrong @KoshkaMurka. Is crafting unfair because some people don't want to craft? Is the fact that people can level in PVP unfair because there are those of us who don't want to level in PVP? I don't care for Imperial City... is it unfair that I can't get Telvar stones? Nope. It's not.
MMOs, and Elder Scrolls, should be about options, not limitations. Don''t want pets? That's fine... no biggie. You can progress just as far as those with pets who train them. The one thing that could be done to mitigate the unfairness would be to disallow these useful pets in PVP and perhaps even have a player earn less XP for kills that they get with their pet... but I don't think those two things really benefit anyone, they would just quiet the cries of "unfair!"
I would think the best option for ZOS would be to add in-game obtainable pets from early in the game, but this concept works with what the game has... so yea, a person with a fox could trounce a person with a Senche Tiger... if it's trained properly. I agree it's silly... but it's the most fair way to implement this kind of concept.
Now if ZOS wanted to add a catch-em type concept so core players could get different pet types (maybe having Class A-B-C type pets) I would be a great addition to the concept!What ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
Click HERE to discuss.
Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!2 -
LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
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Not really.The idea that "some people wouldn't want to do it so it shouldn't be added" is wrong @KoshkaMurka.
I'm not against player housing or lore-unfriendly costumes or any other fluff I dont care about. Because everyone has different tastes, and these things do not change the base game anyway.
But your concept includes fundamental changes to combat balance (mitigation and buffs) and economy (harvesting part).
Yeah, exactly, and this is precisely why I'm against the idea of buffs and harvesting helpers.MMOs, and Elder Scrolls, should be about options, not limitations.
If you can gather the materials 2 times faster with a pet, then you will be less effective without one. If a pet gives you more resists and damage, you wont be on leaderboards without a pokemon.
So everyone will be forced to use pets in order to be effective... Which doesnt really look like a freedom of choice, of course if you dont mean that pet skins would be the "options".Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
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LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭And yeah, even if the advantage the pet gives would be around 2-5% or so... People are grinding cps for hours to get these extra %. People used to trade emperorship for a few measly %.
And at the end of the day, these small bonuses really matter.Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
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Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭KoshkaMurka wrote: »
Not really.The idea that "some people wouldn't want to do it so it shouldn't be added" is wrong @KoshkaMurka.
I'm not against player housing or lore-unfriendly costumes or any other fluff I dont care about. Because everyone has different tastes, and these things do not change the base game anyway.
But your concept includes fundamental changes to combat balance (mitigation and buffs) and economy (harvesting part).
Yeah, exactly, and this is precisely why I'm against the idea of buffs and harvesting helpers.MMOs, and Elder Scrolls, should be about options, not limitations.
If you can gather the materials 2 times faster with a pet, then you will be less effective without one. If a pet gives you more resists and damage, you wont be on leaderboards without a pokemon.
So everyone will be forced to use pets in order to be effective... Which doesnt really look like a freedom of choice, of course if you dont mean that pet skins would be the "options".
if you care about gathering mats... you'd get a pet... if you care about getting on the leaderboards then you get a pet. Similarly how if you care about being effective in PVP you get the best gear.
Is it unfair that those who craft the best gear are better suited for PVP than someone like me, who just uses any armor they find lying around? Are those players not benefiting in ways I am not because I don't really care to craft? Should ZOS remove crafting because I don't really want to do it?
Of course they shouldn't.
This would be a gameplay mechanic addition to the game so yea... if you want to be effective in certain situations, you would need a pet. I don't see an issue with that. The game changes. The game grows.
Like I said, ZOS could mitigate the issues by doing things like disallowing pets in certain situations (PVP... maybe even trials and such) but I don't think it would be necessary. I did play with the idea of pet command being an active slot-able ability, that way, players with pets have to give up something (a skill) to have their pet help them in battle.Edited by Gidorick on November 20, 2015 9:37PMWhat ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
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Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭KoshkaMurka wrote: »And yeah, even if the advantage the pet gives would be around 2-5% or so... People are grinding cps for hours to get these extra %. People used to trade emperorship for a few measly %.
And at the end of the day, these small bonuses really matter.
And if those things matter to you... you'd go get a pet. Right?What ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
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pirate3✭✭✭KoshkaMurka wrote: »Yeah, exactly, and this is precisely why I'm against the idea of buffs and harvesting helpers.
If you can gather the materials 2 times faster with a pet, then you will be less effective without one. If a pet gives you more resists and damage, you wont be on leaderboards without a pokemon.
So everyone will be forced to use pets in order to be effective... Which doesnt really look like a freedom of choice, of course if you dont mean that pet skins would be the "options".
Well said. Pets should remain purely cosmetic. I'd welcome more interactions between players and pets (i.e. pet emotes), and between your pets and other players' pets, but nothing more.
I think there should also be an option to disable other player's pets entirely from the game. Some of them a particularly irritating, although the situation has improved since the days when it seemed that every was dragging around an ice wraith. Options, and all that.
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LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
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So basically if some people like pets, then everyone should be forced to use them? What about options you've been talking about?if you care about gathering mats... you'd get a pet... if you care about getting on the leaderboards then you get a pet.
Lol.Is it unfair that those who craft the best gear are better suited for PVP than someone like me, who just uses any armor they find lying around? Are those players not benefiting in ways I am not because I don't really care to craft? Should ZOS remove crafting because I don't really want to do it?
Well, its very easy to find a crafter to solve that problem. Some dont even ask for anything except mats if you're in the right guild. So you can be competitive without leveling any crafts. The damage/mitigation buff from pets cannot be obtained without a pet according to your idea, so its a totally different thing.
Like I said - options are nice. "Lets force everyone to play like I want to play" isnt.
Dro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU2 -
Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭KoshkaMurka wrote: »
So basically if some people like pets, then everyone should be forced to use them? What about options you've been talking about?if you care about gathering mats... you'd get a pet... if you care about getting on the leaderboards then you get a pet.
Lol.Is it unfair that those who craft the best gear are better suited for PVP than someone like me, who just uses any armor they find lying around? Are those players not benefiting in ways I am not because I don't really care to craft? Should ZOS remove crafting because I don't really want to do it?
Well, its very easy to find a crafter to solve that problem. Some dont even ask for anything except mats if you're in the right guild. So you can be competitive without leveling any crafts. The damage/mitigation buff from pets cannot be obtained without a pet according to your idea, so its a totally different thing.
Like I said - options are nice. "Lets force everyone to play like I want to play" isnt.
I can kind of see where you're coming from with that second perspective, that you can use other players. It's not like you'd be able to buy pre-trained pets from other players or use an amulet to get the same benefits.... but the same can be said with other aspects of the game. Like mounts.
I just keep going back to the "If you don't want to use them, fine, you don't get the benefit." Like... a player who doesn't want to use a mount isn't as fast as those that do. Or a player who chooses to play nude isn't as protected as those that are armored. Or that those who play in first person arent as able to see incoming damage as those that play in third person perspective. So a player who is running around in Cyrodiil on foot, naked, in first person is likely to be an easier target than a person who is on a maxed out mount, in veteran gear, in third person. Is the naked-footed player being forced to play like the mounted-armored player? If they want to be as effective as that player... sure he is.
I just don't see how this concept is much different from other parts of the game that require gear, food, weapons, or mounts to play the game efficiently. If you care about being efficient, you use the tools that make you efficient. Pets would just be one of those tools.
The issue you have is you don't WANT pets to be one of those tools, which is fine, but why should those that want pets to aid them in battle be forced to play YOUR way as we are now with pets being vanity items only? No matter what, with any game mechanic, one play preference type is being forced on another. This concept would simply make pets a more vital component to competitive gameplay in ESO.
What do you think of the idea that activating a pet in-battle takes an active ability slot? That would mean players would have to give up an active ability to use their pet. As someone who doesn't want to use pets, do you fell like that would be "fair"?
Edited by Gidorick on November 20, 2015 10:20PMWhat ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
Click HERE to discuss.
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Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭KoshkaMurka wrote: »Yeah, exactly, and this is precisely why I'm against the idea of buffs and harvesting helpers.
If you can gather the materials 2 times faster with a pet, then you will be less effective without one. If a pet gives you more resists and damage, you wont be on leaderboards without a pokemon.
So everyone will be forced to use pets in order to be effective... Which doesnt really look like a freedom of choice, of course if you dont mean that pet skins would be the "options".
Well said. Pets should remain purely cosmetic. I'd welcome more interactions between players and pets (i.e. pet emotes), and between your pets and other players' pets, but nothing more.
I think there should also be an option to disable other player's pets entirely from the game. Some of them a particularly irritating, although the situation has improved since the days when it seemed that every was dragging around an ice wraith. Options, and all that.
Would the option to remove pets include summoned creatures that Sorcs have @pirate3 ?Edited by Gidorick on November 20, 2015 10:12PMWhat ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
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LadyNalcarya✭✭✭✭✭
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Not really. A mount cannot attack anyone, it cant boost any of your stats except backpack size... And yeah, its not following you around.but the same can be said with other aspects of the game. Like mounts.
But all these things make sense lore- and mechanic-wise. Deadly bantam guar than saves me from Cyrodiil nightblades doesnt. Elder scrolls games have never been pet simulators, so I dont see why pets should be that important.I just keep going back to the "If you don't want to use them, fine, you don't get the benefit." Like... a player who doesn't want to use a mount isn't as fast as those that do. Or a player who chooses to play nude isn't as protected as those that do. Or that those that play in first person isn't as able to see incoming damage as those that play in third person perspective. So a player who is running around in Cyrodiil on foot, naked, in first person is likely to be an easier target than a person who is on a maxed out mount, in veteran gear, in third person. Is the naked-footed player being forced to play like the mounted-armored player? If they want to be as effective as that player... sure he is.
Ok... If you do not understand my logic, lets try it another way.
Imagine that Zos suddenly introduces a romance system so you can play something like date sim with npcs. It would be fine if it was an option, but Zos decides that its not immersive or something and now all your performance in game depends on how often you can get laid with these npcs.
Your proposed pet system looks exactly like this.
This quote sums it up perfectly:
And lets take a look on other systems that exist in game.And if those things matter to you... you'd go get a pet. Right?
Crafting - you dont have to craft anything, you can buy/trade any crafted item or ask someone to craft them for you.For example, I always craft sets for guildies that dont have enough trait/styles or just started the game.
Pvp - you dont have to participate if you dont like it. And even then, some people are asking for safe version of Cyrodiil/IC just for pve. I.e. more options.
Justice - you dont have to participate if you dont want to, you can even disable attacking npcs in settings.
Pve dungeons - yeah, they give some good gear and passives, and look how many pvpers are unhappy about it. People dont like to be forced to do stuff they dont like.
Now, you want Zos to implement the following:
Pets - everyone must have a pet to be competitive in any activity, because a person without pets is essentialy gimped. Also, its a shiny new grind for pets stats and stuff, yay!
Well, I think that summoning skill tree might be viable (its kinda hard to balance though so the pets wont be either op or lackluster). Or, perhaps, some adjustments to daedric summoning skill tree?What do you think of the idea that activating a pet in-battle takes an active ability slot? That would mean players would have to give up an active ability to use their pet? Edited by LadyNalcarya on November 20, 2015 10:37PMDro-m'Athra Destroyer | Divayth Fyr's Coadjutor | Voice of Reason
PC/EU1 -
Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Lol. You are NOT going to like my marriage concept @KoshkaMurka.
You mentioning guildies is a good example of a mechanic that some see as a mechanic that is required in game and some wish it wasn't. If you want to sell in game you must join a guild. Many feel this is unfair. I do not.
Of course, I'm not the type of person that must partake in every aspect and facet of a game. My main hates magic and sees himself as an honorable man. He doesn't steal. He doesn't partake in legerdermain. He also only uses weapon skills, a few fighter guild skills, and potions.
HOWEVER, there ARE still skills available for him to use and legerdermain skills only help improve the legerdermain skill line.
So I see where you're coming from. If pet skills only improved and effected pet abilities and pet success, it would be better.
I do agree that this kind of mechanic needs to be an optional mechanic. I'll have to think about the best way to do that.What ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
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Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
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I don't really see the difference @Pirate3 . IF (huge if, of course) pets were useful in battle, you would then need to see them too right?
I could see an option of turning of pets of strangers... those that do not directly impact you.
What about pets of players you are not groped with. The Sorc pets of strangers. Would you want to hide those too?
What ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
Click HERE to discuss.
Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!0 -
710ConspiracistSoul ShrivenI agree, adopting this system would unbalance it and force ranking players to adopt a pet.
Now if they add a pretty low cap on the pets to only make it viable at low levels, to help newer or crafting characters I can see this being useful. And as your character advances your pet will still attempt to defend you, but be far less effective. Basically being a pet. Would be helpful for new builds, and crafting only characters to have a little defense out in the wilds.
1st pets would need to be easily obtainable in the game. As easy as finding a stray dog, offering it some food to start training it for it to follow you around, etc, etc. Need to feed it to keep it healthy enough to help, otherwise its just pet status.
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Necrelios✭✭✭✭✭I've played other games with useful pets that could pick up your loot for you or provide a small inventory expansion while with you and I must say I loved the idea of it. Even NPC followers would be a great addition, maybe offering services such as gear repair, or a personal fashion consultant who could dye your armor, offer haircuts, give you tattoos, etc. All for a small fee of course. There needs to be some use for gold in this game.
It would be great if they appropriately responded to combat situations by cowering in fear or saying encouraging things. Or even mocking us and telling us we're "sick" for killing so many people would be great too.
Personally I would prefer a drunk wood elf bard to follow me around and say mean things to belittle me and mock me constantly.
They could use the same quest phasing system as quest related followers giving us the option to only have our pets visible and audible to us for performance. I would be concerned if everyone had complex pets that it could pose a possible performance problem.Edited by Necrelios on November 21, 2015 1:01AMTerms & Conditions ["We revoke permission to fictional legal constructs or private/public persons for selling of any private data, censorship, surveillance, personage or conversion as a trespass of law. We prohibit the practice of "procedural law" or corporate statues in place of divine law."]1 -
Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭710Conspiracist wrote: »1st pets would need to be easily obtainable in the game. As easy as finding a stray dog, offering it some food to start training it for it to follow you around.
Good idea. Imma steal it.
Dog for Daggerfall
Cat for Aldmeri
Scrib for Ebonheart
how's that?What ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
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pirate3✭✭✭I don't really see the difference @Pirate3 . IF (huge if, of course) pets were useful in battle, you would then need to see them too right?
I could see an option of turning of pets of strangers... those that do not directly impact you.
What about pets of players you are not groped with. The Sorc pets of strangers. Would you want to hide those too?
I think @KoshkaMurka has already pointed out why that aspect of your proposed pet system would be undesirable. If something like that was implemented, then those pets would need to be rendered if they could be used in battle. But I am talking about the option to hide cosmetic pets as they are currently implemented.
The hide pet option would not apply to pets of sorcs I am not grouped with, given that you do not necessarily need to group with another player to fight alongside them.1 -
Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I don't really see the difference @Pirate3 . IF (huge if, of course) pets were useful in battle, you would then need to see them too right?
I could see an option of turning of pets of strangers... those that do not directly impact you.
What about pets of players you are not groped with. The Sorc pets of strangers. Would you want to hide those too?
I think @KoshkaMurka has already pointed out why that aspect of your proposed pet system would be undesirable. If something like that was implemented, then those pets would need to be rendered if they could be used in battle. But I am talking about the option to hide cosmetic pets as they are currently implemented.
The hide pet option would not apply to pets of sorcs I am not grouped with, given that you do not necessarily need to group with another player to fight alongside them.
Ah. sorry. I was thinking in context of this concept.
I do agree though. As pets are now, hide pet option would be nice. I feel like that discussion if for another thread since using the logic of sorc pets being visible even if vanity pets are not is moot if vanity pets are able to perform combat actions. Then those pets would have to be visible as well.Edited by Gidorick on November 21, 2015 1:21AMWhat ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
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temjiu✭✭✭✭Great writeup OP!
and some solid ideas. However, I am in the camp of "no Game Impact" UNLESS the pets that had game impact were something that everyone got early on as part of the story.
Perfect example is the mounts in FFXIV. at lvl 20 everyone gets a mount. no heavy costs involved, a quest that pops up in line with the story (so you don't miss it), and it's yours. for free (well, a certain measure of grinding in the story, but nothing extreme by any means. Half a level of work essentially).
At levle 30, they become combat pets(mounts). Yes, they actually fight alongside you, and you have options on how to level them and where you can put points. they have a tank line, healing line, and damage line. Ride up to the bad guys, hop off, and your mount is ready to fight by your side!
But the thing is EVERYONE GETS ONE. and everyone gets to fight with it at 30. there are also a ton of other limitations (it takes the place of a person in a group, you can't PvP with them, etc). But the point is that they do impact the game, make it easier to level (especially alts), and because of all this, balance necessitates that everyone gets one.
So if we have pets in this game, that have a real impact on the game, it's as simple as that. now, if the pet "skin" doesn't impact the pets abilities, then it would be as simple as putting in a "pet" quest at, say, level 20 or 30. then no matter which pet you have out, much like the mount in FFXIV, it's pretty much the same stats, same abilities. then they could sell all the pet "skins" they want. you go into collections, enable the pet you want to summon, and when you summon it, it has your generic "pets" stats. Adding in options to level them and unlock skills and abilities (such as farming, out of combat healing, etc.) could be choices in the skill lines, but since everyone has the same skill lines available to them...it's balanced.
That's the only real condition I would add to the list. Other then that I like the idea!Edited by temjiu on November 21, 2015 1:28AM1 -
newtinmpls✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I think that a 'fetch' command that harvests the nearest node would be similar in "player energy" to just harvesting, so not pay to win.Tenesi Faryon of Telvanni - Dunmer Sorceress who deliberately sought sacrifice into Cold Harbor to rescue her beloved.
Hisa Ni Caemaire - Altmer Sorceress, member of the Order Draconis and Adept of the House of Dibella.
Broken Branch Toothmaul - goblin (for my goblin characters, I use either orsimer or bosmer templates) Templar, member of the Order Draconis and persistently unskilled pickpocket
Mol gro Durga - Orsimer Socerer/Battlemage who died the first time when the Nibenay Valley chapterhouse of the Order Draconis was destroyed, then went back to Cold Harbor to rescue his second/partner who was still captive. He overestimated his resistance to the hopelessness of Oblivion, about to give up, and looked up to see the golden glow of atherius surrounding a beautiful young woman who extended her hand to him and said "I can help you". He carried Fianna Kingsley out of Cold Harbor on his shoulder. He carried Alvard Stower under one arm. He also irritated the Prophet who had intended the portal for only Mol and Lyris.***Order Draconis - well c'mon there has to be some explanation for all those dragon tattoos.
House of Dibella - If you have ever seen or read "Memoirs of a Geisha" that's just the beginning...
Nibenay Valley Chapterhouse - Where now stands only desolate ground and a dolmen there once was a thriving community supporting one of the major chapterhouses of the Order Draconis2 -
MornaBaine✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I agree that not having pets that are attainable in game is an issue @KoshkaMurka. By the generally accepted definition of pay to win this mechanic would not be pay to win because there is one pet that is attainable in game without paying additional money in the crown store.
I do think there should be more pets earnable in-game... but there is one earnable in game.
What are the reasons you think this would be a pay to win mechanic @KoshkaMurka ?
Are you talking about Justal's Falcon? I love that one but wish you could keep it out and have it sit on your fist!PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say No to Crown Crates!1