ZOS Tacitly Admits EP Must Farm DSA for Nix Hound Collectible

UrQuan

For a little background for those who may not be aware, monster collectibles (the trophies that very rarely drop from some mobs) have been a problem in ESO for a long time. There are a number of achievements and dyes associated with obtaining them. For most of the first year after PC launch, a number of the collectibles were bugged and simply didn't ever drop, and of course they will never drop from a mob that is too low level for you to gain XP or normal loot from it.

This means that many of us who have been playing for a long time have had a very hard (often impossible) time getting some of these collectibles and associated achievements unlocked on our characters. As of a few updates ago, all of the collectibles will now drop. Of course, in the long time that many of them were bugged, many of us had our characters out-level the areas where it would have been possible for us to get those drops. There was a workaround for this, though, because it was possible to obtain a collectible on an alt, and transfer it through the bank to the character who needed it, so that character could add it to his collection.

That changed with the IC update and patch. The patch changed things so that collectibles could no longer be banked and used on a different character. This change was intentional, but was not mentioned in the patch notes. Instead the patch notes said "Monster trophies now work more like fishing trophies: when you loot one, you automatically receive achievement credit, rather than having to use it as a separate action." which, as anyone who was familiar with how fishing trophies worked prior to the patch would know, would actually seem to indicate that the character who obtained the collectible would automatically get the achievement, and the collectible could then be transferred to another character, who could then use it and also gain the achievement.

There have been several threads on the forums discussing these changes, with the overwhelming majority of comments in them (there are currently 2 quite active threads which, between them, have 12 pages of posts from over 100 different people) being strongly opposed to this change. Naturally, I've been sending /feedback in-game on this issue.

Recently I've been engaging in a dialogue with Customer Service about this. After getting past the canned automatic response, the people I've been speaking to have been relatively decent to deal with - I don't have any issues with them, but they clearly have no ability to actually address the problem. Most recently, one of them replied to one of the specific concerns I had about one of the most problematic collectibles: the nix hound collectible. For vet level Ebonheart Pact characters there is nowhere they can go to farm this collectible. The only place that vet level nix hounds can be found is Dragonstar Arena - and there are only 2 of them there.

Here's the response I got from ZOS CS about my concerns about the nix hound collectible being unobtainable for vet level EP characters:

ZOS Customer Service wrote:

Greetings!
I do understand your concern, however I was able to confirm that the monsters that you mentioned are available for all vet level characters. Please bear in mind that these monsters may not only be in the over land area, but they may also be in areas like Dungeons or Dragonstar Arena.
As it stands, all of these trophies should be available, but unfortunately, we are not able to discuss specific game mechanics of where to find each individual one as we do encourage and promote a sense of exploration in our game.

*

As there are no nix hounds in group dungeons, this is a tacit admission from ZOS that the only place where a vet level nix hound can be found for EP characters is Dragonstar Arena.

So apparently ZOS thinks it's reasonable that an EP character should have to get a group together to farm DSA (keep in mind that DSA is meant to be difficult end-game content) hundreds of times (the drop rate on collectibles is less than 1%, and there are only 2 nix hounds in DSA) in order to get an achievement that characters of other alliances can obtain easily by doing some solo farming in EP overland zones.

Can @ZOS_RichLambert or @ZOS_JessicaFolsom or @ZOS_GinaBruno or anyone else from ZOS explain this design decision to me? Why was it decided that some achievements should be effectively unobtainable depending on what alliance you chose for your character?

*Note: there was more to the CS response than just what I quoted - general stuff about passing on my concerns etc. The CS rep was perfectly professional and polite about it, but clearly unable to do anything or give me any further info.

DenMoria

Ya know, sometimes I am so glad that I don't give a hoot about trophies and achievements. I can only imagine the headaches.

This is great info for all concerned parties though. You deserve more than one Awesome for that post.

Mighty_oakk

Why they would go out of their way to essentially grief the dedicated players who are trying to complete their sets is beyond me.

Of all the things to spend time 'fixing'...

Acrolas

Audit comes from the Latin audītus meaning, "the sense or act of hearing."

#FireFolsom
#GinaForPresident

Personofsecrets

@ZOS_GinaBruno , I've said this before and I'll say it again. Something is wrong with trophy drop rate inside VDSA.

The only enemies that seem to drop trophies are ones that are spawned by mechanics, but not enemies that are spawned from portals.

For example, I would expect the Scamps, from the sacrificial altar of round 7, or Flame Atronarchs, from Hyath's placed fire mechanic of round 10, to drop trophies from time to time.

I would never expect anyone to get a trophy from any enemy that comes from regular portal though. That includes Ice Wraiths, Bears, Trolls, Stranglers, Wamasu, Nereid, Nix Hound, Netch, Duneripper, Scorpion, Anka-Ra, Sprigin, Lurcher, Spider Daedra, Bannekin, Daedroth, Dwarven Spider, Dwarven Sphere, Skeleton, and the Wraith enemies.

Can you please get this looked into?

Edit:

Kagouti and, I think, Kwama were missed above.

Beowulf_McCallum

I haven't done all of cadwells, so i can't state whether or not it's possible.... but can't EP just revisit those zones at vet level? and if not, WHY not? Leveling ALL zones up to max once a toon is maxed just seems to make sense and would alleviate this issue. if this DOESN'T happen, why not? Is there some inherent flaw in doing that that I don't see??

I know you don't like to be summoned, but could we get clarification on this @ZOS_RichLambert ?

MissBizz

That is terrible news. The collectibles were already something that were difficult to find, especially with MANY of them being bugged in the past. I am very disappointed about the change, and even more disappointed with the "game-wide audit" that was done to ensure the collectibles are available to everyone at their current level. I really don't see how this change actually shows "That combined with the availability being limited by level-range prompted us to make the system more intuitive and uniform". How is the system more uniform when certain collectibles have only 2 mobs in the later level ranges for only one faction? That doesn't seem uniform at all.

I do not understand why the collectibles were not changed to work the same way as fish prior to this patch. They were easy to understand, and would have allowed you to build your collection up through various alts.

UrQuan

Beowulf_McCallum wrote: »

I haven't done all of cadwells, so i can't state whether or not it's possible.... but can't EP just revisit those zones at vet level? and if not, WHY not? Leveling ALL zones up to max once a toon is maxed just seems to make sense and would alleviate this issue. if this DOESN'T happen, why not? Is there some inherent flaw in doing that that I don't see??

I know you don't like to be summoned, but could we get clarification on this @ZOS_RichLambert ?

No, they can't. Your home alliance zones stay at the levels they were when you first leveled through them, so once you're vet level you can't ever get any XP, loot (aside from rawhide scraps and the like), or collectibles from any mobs that you kill in your home alliance zones.

I'd love it if once you completed Cadwell's Silver and Gold you could choose to go to the Gold or Silver versions of your home alliance zones (it would solve this problem), but that's not possible.

WldKarde

Great post @UrQuan and thanks for taking the time to try and get this issue brought to light!

Kinda makes it nigh on impossible for me to get that achievement since every character on my main account is not only EP, but all of them are vet level.

Hopefully our friends at ZOS will give this some consideration.

Especially since you presented your argument in a very well thought out and respectful manner. I'm betting this will go a lot farther than the normal 3 year old tantrums that they have become accustomed to in these forums.

Well done!

UrQuan

wldkarde wrote: »

Especially since you presented your argument in a very well thought out and respectful manner. I'm betting this will go a lot farther than the normal 3 year old tantrums that they have become accustomed to in these forums.

Well, I hope so. And I do want to emphasize that I really have no complaints about the CS people I've been talking with about this. They've all been perfectly professional, polite, and obviously as helpful as they are able to be. It's just unfortunate that their hands are clearly tied on this and they really can't do anything about it.

Beowulf_McCallum

UrQuan wrote: »

I'd love it if once you completed Cadwell's Silver and Gold you could choose to go to the Gold or Silver versions of your home alliance zones (it would solve this problem), but that's not possible.

Not possible right now, correct?


Sooooo why isn't this a thing? It should be made possible :-/

(It just seems such a SHAME to 'outlevel' such beautiful areas of the game. To render useless areas at endgame seems so shortsighted and a disservice to this IP that so many hold so dear)

Xendyn

Personally, I think this silliness started in order to make things uniform across PC and console. In this case, it's a downgrade. They need to go the other direction.

#Revert the Trophy Change

Think that's going in my sig.

Rosveen

Not much more left to say...

@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno
Please review the loot table, actually review in depth, not just check if each type of monster exists in the world. It's important to know where they're located. Please make sure every achievement can be completed with a reasonable amount of effort. Collectibles were difficult enough to obtain before this change, now some of them are nigh impossible to find. Is this really what you intended? If yes, then why?

anitajoneb17_ESO

I think there ARE nix hounds in at least 1 Cyrodiil delve and also in Darkshade cavern. Maybe also in the normal version of Funghal Grotto. Not 100% sure but that's where I'd check.

Beowulf_McCallum

It's my understanding that with the introduction of Orsinium, that Zone will be leveled to your Character.... can they not do that retroactively for ALL completed zones for your toon?

AlnilamE

Which Cyrodiil delve?

Darkshade has tons of kwama, but no nix-hounds that I know of.

Also, where could one get Kagouti as a vet EP character?

And thank you for your post UrQuan.

I hope they listen and at least put some Kagouti and nix-hounds in Cyrodiil near the Morrowind gates.

Rosveen

Beowulf_McCallum wrote: »

It's my understanding that with the introduction of Orsinium, that Zone will be leveled to your Character.... can they not do that retroactively for ALL completed zones for your toon?

We don't know if the zone will be scaled. In fact, it probably won't be, as you can't really scale overworld content to every player at the same time. It's more likely that we'll be battle leveled like in Cyrodiil.

UrQuan

Beowulf_McCallum wrote: »

show previous quotes

UrQuan wrote: »

I'd love it if once you completed Cadwell's Silver and Gold you could choose to go to the Gold or Silver versions of your home alliance zones (it would solve this problem), but that's not possible.

Not possible right now, correct?


Sooooo why isn't this a thing? It should be made possible :-/

(It just seems such a SHAME to 'outlevel' such beautiful areas of the game. To render useless areas at endgame seems so shortsighted and a disservice to this IP that so many hold so dear)

Correct, what I meant is that it's not currently possible. I agree that it should be made possible, or some other method should be introduced that allows you to go back to those zones and do something meaningful. In the past I've proposed quests that send you back to your alliance zones to follow up on things that happened previously - only you'd be facing enemies your level (possibly through instancing areas to people based on whether they have accepted the quest leading them there). A mission for EP characters to retake Bleakrock, for example, or one for DC characters to rebuild Camlorn, etc.

But yeah, allowing you to go to the Gold or Silver version of your home alliance zones would definitely alleviate this concern around collectibles.

RoyJade

It's a real problem indeed.
Could ZOS make these items droppables even when mobs are outlevelled, like all medium crafting material ? It should resolve the problem without any hard work needed.

UrQuan

RoyJade wrote: »

It's a real problem indeed.
Could ZOS make these items droppables even when mobs are outlevelled, like all medium crafting material ? It should resolve the problem without any hard work needed.

That's one possible solution, but to my mind it's not ideal, as it could lead to high level players going and farming low level mobs - potentially ruining the game experience of low level players who are adventuring in that area.

Rosveen

Nvm, ninja'd.

CromulentForumID

RoyJade wrote: »

It's a real problem indeed.
Could ZOS make these items droppables even when mobs are outlevelled, like all medium crafting material ? It should resolve the problem without any hard work needed.

I have to believe that it is possible, in the same way that an enemy that is not a "creature" will sometimes drop a provisioning supply like a potato, even when no XP are earned.

MissBizz

CromulentForumID wrote: »

show previous quotes

RoyJade wrote: »

It's a real problem indeed.
Could ZOS make these items droppables even when mobs are outlevelled, like all medium crafting material ? It should resolve the problem without any hard work needed.

I have to believe that it is possible, in the same way that an enemy that is not a "creature" will sometimes drop a provisioning supply like a potato, even when no XP are earned.

Oh, it's definitely possible. There is a special set of loot that can be taken from a mob of any level, these are crafting mats ex. raw hide.

Curragraigue

There are some nix-hounds in Craglorn.

I also have a vague memory of coming across nix-hounds in an AD zone in one of the EP invasion areas. Might be wrong about that one has been a few months since the last time I did Cadwell's Silver on my DC toons. I thought it was one of the expanded delves

Rivan12

This change kinda borked my whole account. I have multiple VRs I play on a rotating basis, and of course a Main I designated as Achievement Hunter. It was a good mechanic to transfer trophies to a main, it worked for me and tons of other folks.

NOW

I have a stable of multiple VRs *Yes I mentioned that again* that now I have little motivation to play correctly on. I avoid killing mobs when possible on my alts now for fear I'll be rewarded a trophy drop I need on my main. It was not the correct way to go ZoS. You gave us 8 character slots you should also be giving us reasons to play alts, not reasons to fear playing them.

Ourorboros

Getting that info from ZOS was like taking a meaty bone from a dire wolf! My last response from CS confirmed that this issue had been sent to the developers.

@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GinaBruno, it is just ludicrous that a collectible is locked behind high level group content and even that opportunity borders on the infinite to get a nix-hound collectible. This is one time I'm happy my main is DC.

Why cannot additional nix-hounds, kwama, and kagouti be added to the game? There is already a precedent for this. Jackals used to exit only in the Alik'r. For early DC vets it was impossible to get the Cruel Collar due to the early collectible bug, and the collectible level requirement. Thankfully, jackals were added to Craglorn with 1.6 patch. At the very least, more creatures that drop collectibles for every alliance need to be added to upcoming DLC.

Personally, I think whoever was behind this change to collectibles is due a pedal-applied leather suppository (think about it ).

DenMoria

I don't know what the "Cruel Collar" is, but, I do have an event I'd like to attend where something like that would be the perfect accompaniment.

Sorry - Actually, what is the "Cruel Collar". I'm guessing you get it from a Jackal in the Alik'r? Is it a V item?

Fissh

Very much in agreement with the OP.
RNG God is already an evil one in this game. Why add even more to the grind?
X200 Darkshade, and still no helm. Loot...unachieved. Trophies have become my engine guardian helm now. If I want it, then mindless grinding for a very possible forever is the only option.
Cheers ZoS. As a player since launch, thank you for making me fully understand what it feels like to be a Chinese gold farmer......

obscure7

The change to the monster trophies was unnecessary and only serves to frustrate players.

Why am I not allowed to share collectibles among my characters?

Qyrk

I sympathise for those people affected. As an AD who only had one chance for farming flesh atros and once missed, will have to farm public and/or group dungeons, I know how it feels to left with the short side of the stick. I just hope that future DLCs will attend to this imbalance of mobs, but then again how long will we have to wait?

Prof_Bawbag

No idea why they don't just give us an option to either silver or gold our faction area once we've done the main 3 grinds. It would solve so many problems.