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Stamina Sorcerers - the next steps for zos
Jar_Ek
✭✭✭✭✭
Although it seems that zos are now heading in roughly the right direction with stamina sorcerers with the following changes:
Passives
• Expert mage:
Now also provides 1% and 2% per sorcerer skill on the current bar to Weapon Power.
• Daedric Protection:
Also provides 20% stamina regeneration increase when a Daedric Summons ability is slotted.
Actives
• Thundering Presence:
Stamina morph of Lightning Form that has 4s major Expeditious and 4s DoT damage boost
Impact of changes
• Expert mage:
Expert Mage requires sorcerer skills to be slotted to gain the benefit. However there are three stamina morphs total and approximately 5 other skills (Streak, Encase, Rune cage, Surge, Clannfear) that might be used by stamina sorcerers (8 with ultimates) – and some of these are highly suboptimal for stamina (Clannfear is only used as an offtank or for the heal, Encase is expensive, and Streak has numerous ramifications wrt magicka costs). As all stamina builds use stamina abilities predominately, this means that there will only ever be a 6% maximum bonus from this ability in all probability – and even that is debatable. This passive would be improved if some other sorcerer abilities were made more stamina friendly to bring its benefit more in line with magicka builds (ie more diversity as stamina builds will almost always have non class skills on their bars anyway). The simplest solution to this would be to make pets scale off the highest resource (stamina or magicka), or the combined stamina and magicka (with an appropriate scale factor) – which would make them as useful to stamina builds as to magicka. However the addition of another stamina morph would also help.
• Daedric Protection:
Daedric Protection requires a Daedric Summons skill to be slotted for the benefit. Only one Daedric Summons ability (Bound Armour) is stamina scaled (two if you include the Ultimate) and hence this change is of less benefit to stamina builds than it would first appear. In fact it is of more benefit to magicka sorcerers who routinely slot a morph of Conjured Ward.
The simplest solution to this would be to make pets scale off the highest resource (stamina or magicka), or the combined stamina and magicka (with an appropriate scale factor) – which would make them as useful to stamina builds as to magicka. Or to provide stamina users with a reason to slot other skill line abilities above and beyond Bound Armour.
• Thundering Presence:
The impact of this morph is a little underwhelming as it only has a 4s mobility buff – this mobility buff is what most people use the ability for unless they are tanks. And the damage outside of the initial 4s burst DoT is also underwhelming. On the plus side it can at least proc disintegrate.
These are a good start, but they fail to capture the full state of stamina sorcerers. The following additional changes are suggested / requested:
Make the following changes to actives:
• Change either Endless Fury or Mages Fury into a stamina morph with a reduced range (probably Endless Fury as magicka regeneration is uncapped).
This would provide a class “instant” damage ability that could proc disintegrate and benefit from Energised and Expert Mage. Ideally it (and indeed all Mages Fury variants) would be an instant hit (rather than the current 1s delayed hit) and do more base and less detonate damage (but keep the same overall damage in the execute phase). Although it would be nice to have a secondary effect it probably would not require one.
• Change Power Overload to give back stamina rather than increase heavy attacks or have Energy Overload give back magicka or stamina depending on your highest resource.
I favour the former solution, but there is no good reason why magicka sorcerers should get primary resource regeneration off an ultimate and stamina sorcerers not. It would probably be possible to incorporate a small to moderate increase to the heavy attack range and damage into the base ability anyway in order to minimise the impact to Power Overload users as heavy Overload attacks are not used a lot in PvP (to my knowledge).
• Make all summoned pets damage scale with either magicka or stamina.
This would immediately make all stamina sorcerers have a more viable set of options – it wouldn’t affect PvP much (because pets are of little use in PvP), but it would help make stamina sorcerers more viable in PvE. It would trigger the new Daedric Protection, benefit from Rebate/Expert Summoner and trigger the Expert mage changes – as well as providing an additional source of much needed DPS. It would also give stamina builds a reason to slot Daedric Prey – not for the damage, but for the pet buff.
If the concern is that pets scaled with stamina would be too powerful (although I cannot see it myself), you could always adjust the scaling for them slightly compared to magicka.
• Change Surge to reduce the healing cool-down to as low as you can and enable DoTs to proc it again.
If the cool-down is low enough the impact of DoTs “stealing heals” is greatly reduced, but key stamina abilities will still generate heals (such as Flurry), as will key sorcerer abilities (such as Liquid Lightning, Lightning Form). Alternatively specific abilities could be tagged to trigger the heals (such as Flurry) - so that all non 2 handed weapons actually benefit from Surge. Or DoTs do not trigger the cool down on surge but still provide heals.
Changes to Passives
• Change Exploitation to either provide a physical critical bonus or provide a secondary effect that is of some benefit to stamina users (i.e. apply a minor mangle debuff to all targets hit for 5/10s (+ Persistence bonus).
Currently the spell critical buff is of no use to stamina sorcerers, and limited use in group situations (as most stamina sorcerers will not use any Dark Magic abilities in group situations).
• Combine Rebate and Expert Summoner into a single passive (with the effects of both) and create a new Expert Conjurer passive, along the lines of:
o Bound armour provides a minor vitality buff (4/8%) buff whilst active.
o Daedric Curse applies a minor defile effect on the target until it explodes.
o Conjured ward scales off health if higher than magicka.
This means that the other half of the skill line has a beneficial effect for all sorcerers, makes wards and curses useful for stamina builds without being too overpowered for magicka and buffs Bound Armour to make it more attractive to use as a toggle (and hence on 2-3 bars). This passive alone would provide a shield for stamina sorcerers without affecting magicka ones at all - it would not be spammable in the way that magicka builds can spam shields because the resource used would still be magicka and hence not OP.
Personal requests
There are also a few things that bug me about the sorcerer class that are not really stamina build specific and so here are a few additions that are related to these that would be nice to have:
• Change a morph of Encase to remove the CC effect delay and change the shape to be a ground targeted circle.
The CC effect from Encase has an activation delay (which means it can be dodge rolled, or even jumped over) and does not always occur (meaning that the cost to cast is lost) – this heavily hits stamina users who don’t have a lot of magicka. And the targeting of the ability is also somewhat random – with a targeted circle we could both see and place the effect.
• Change Bound Armour to provide a minor protection buff rather than an resolve buff.
This would make the ability far more useful for all playstyles rather than a minor resolve buff which has almost no real effect in game terms. Alternatively give Bound Armaments a minor berserk buff instead of the heavy attack buff and give Aegis minor Ward and minor protection.
Anyway these are my thoughts on what would be good changes for sorcerers - and the order of priority would be:
1. Summoned pets to scale with either stamina or magicka
2. Change a Mages Fury morph to a stamina ability
3. Change Surge to work with key abilties that are DoTs (like Flurry)
4. Combine the Rebate and Expert Summoner passives and add an Expert Conjurer one - or make Conjured Ward scale off health or magicka
5. Change Power Overload to be the stamina equivalent to Energy Overload
6. The rest.
So any chance of getting these zos?
Edited by Jar_Ek on August 21, 2015 9:34AM Passives
• Expert mage:
Now also provides 1% and 2% per sorcerer skill on the current bar to Weapon Power.
• Daedric Protection:
Also provides 20% stamina regeneration increase when a Daedric Summons ability is slotted.
Actives
• Thundering Presence:
Stamina morph of Lightning Form that has 4s major Expeditious and 4s DoT damage boost
Impact of changes
• Expert mage:
Expert Mage requires sorcerer skills to be slotted to gain the benefit. However there are three stamina morphs total and approximately 5 other skills (Streak, Encase, Rune cage, Surge, Clannfear) that might be used by stamina sorcerers (8 with ultimates) – and some of these are highly suboptimal for stamina (Clannfear is only used as an offtank or for the heal, Encase is expensive, and Streak has numerous ramifications wrt magicka costs). As all stamina builds use stamina abilities predominately, this means that there will only ever be a 6% maximum bonus from this ability in all probability – and even that is debatable. This passive would be improved if some other sorcerer abilities were made more stamina friendly to bring its benefit more in line with magicka builds (ie more diversity as stamina builds will almost always have non class skills on their bars anyway). The simplest solution to this would be to make pets scale off the highest resource (stamina or magicka), or the combined stamina and magicka (with an appropriate scale factor) – which would make them as useful to stamina builds as to magicka. However the addition of another stamina morph would also help.
• Daedric Protection:
Daedric Protection requires a Daedric Summons skill to be slotted for the benefit. Only one Daedric Summons ability (Bound Armour) is stamina scaled (two if you include the Ultimate) and hence this change is of less benefit to stamina builds than it would first appear. In fact it is of more benefit to magicka sorcerers who routinely slot a morph of Conjured Ward.
The simplest solution to this would be to make pets scale off the highest resource (stamina or magicka), or the combined stamina and magicka (with an appropriate scale factor) – which would make them as useful to stamina builds as to magicka. Or to provide stamina users with a reason to slot other skill line abilities above and beyond Bound Armour.
• Thundering Presence:
The impact of this morph is a little underwhelming as it only has a 4s mobility buff – this mobility buff is what most people use the ability for unless they are tanks. And the damage outside of the initial 4s burst DoT is also underwhelming. On the plus side it can at least proc disintegrate.
These are a good start, but they fail to capture the full state of stamina sorcerers. The following additional changes are suggested / requested:
Make the following changes to actives:
• Change either Endless Fury or Mages Fury into a stamina morph with a reduced range (probably Endless Fury as magicka regeneration is uncapped).
This would provide a class “instant” damage ability that could proc disintegrate and benefit from Energised and Expert Mage. Ideally it (and indeed all Mages Fury variants) would be an instant hit (rather than the current 1s delayed hit) and do more base and less detonate damage (but keep the same overall damage in the execute phase). Although it would be nice to have a secondary effect it probably would not require one.
• Change Power Overload to give back stamina rather than increase heavy attacks or have Energy Overload give back magicka or stamina depending on your highest resource.
I favour the former solution, but there is no good reason why magicka sorcerers should get primary resource regeneration off an ultimate and stamina sorcerers not. It would probably be possible to incorporate a small to moderate increase to the heavy attack range and damage into the base ability anyway in order to minimise the impact to Power Overload users as heavy Overload attacks are not used a lot in PvP (to my knowledge).
• Make all summoned pets damage scale with either magicka or stamina.
This would immediately make all stamina sorcerers have a more viable set of options – it wouldn’t affect PvP much (because pets are of little use in PvP), but it would help make stamina sorcerers more viable in PvE. It would trigger the new Daedric Protection, benefit from Rebate/Expert Summoner and trigger the Expert mage changes – as well as providing an additional source of much needed DPS. It would also give stamina builds a reason to slot Daedric Prey – not for the damage, but for the pet buff.
If the concern is that pets scaled with stamina would be too powerful (although I cannot see it myself), you could always adjust the scaling for them slightly compared to magicka.
• Change Surge to reduce the healing cool-down to as low as you can and enable DoTs to proc it again.
If the cool-down is low enough the impact of DoTs “stealing heals” is greatly reduced, but key stamina abilities will still generate heals (such as Flurry), as will key sorcerer abilities (such as Liquid Lightning, Lightning Form). Alternatively specific abilities could be tagged to trigger the heals (such as Flurry) - so that all non 2 handed weapons actually benefit from Surge. Or DoTs do not trigger the cool down on surge but still provide heals.
Changes to Passives
• Change Exploitation to either provide a physical critical bonus or provide a secondary effect that is of some benefit to stamina users (i.e. apply a minor mangle debuff to all targets hit for 5/10s (+ Persistence bonus).
Currently the spell critical buff is of no use to stamina sorcerers, and limited use in group situations (as most stamina sorcerers will not use any Dark Magic abilities in group situations).
• Combine Rebate and Expert Summoner into a single passive (with the effects of both) and create a new Expert Conjurer passive, along the lines of:
o Bound armour provides a minor vitality buff (4/8%) buff whilst active.
o Daedric Curse applies a minor defile effect on the target until it explodes.
o Conjured ward scales off health if higher than magicka.
This means that the other half of the skill line has a beneficial effect for all sorcerers, makes wards and curses useful for stamina builds without being too overpowered for magicka and buffs Bound Armour to make it more attractive to use as a toggle (and hence on 2-3 bars). This passive alone would provide a shield for stamina sorcerers without affecting magicka ones at all - it would not be spammable in the way that magicka builds can spam shields because the resource used would still be magicka and hence not OP.
Personal requests
There are also a few things that bug me about the sorcerer class that are not really stamina build specific and so here are a few additions that are related to these that would be nice to have:
• Change a morph of Encase to remove the CC effect delay and change the shape to be a ground targeted circle.
The CC effect from Encase has an activation delay (which means it can be dodge rolled, or even jumped over) and does not always occur (meaning that the cost to cast is lost) – this heavily hits stamina users who don’t have a lot of magicka. And the targeting of the ability is also somewhat random – with a targeted circle we could both see and place the effect.
• Change Bound Armour to provide a minor protection buff rather than an resolve buff.
This would make the ability far more useful for all playstyles rather than a minor resolve buff which has almost no real effect in game terms. Alternatively give Bound Armaments a minor berserk buff instead of the heavy attack buff and give Aegis minor Ward and minor protection.
Anyway these are my thoughts on what would be good changes for sorcerers - and the order of priority would be:
1. Summoned pets to scale with either stamina or magicka
2. Change a Mages Fury morph to a stamina ability
3. Change Surge to work with key abilties that are DoTs (like Flurry)
4. Combine the Rebate and Expert Summoner passives and add an Expert Conjurer one - or make Conjured Ward scale off health or magicka
5. Change Power Overload to be the stamina equivalent to Energy Overload
6. The rest.
So any chance of getting these zos?
2
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Thalmor-Nordmaster✭✭✭✭✭Pet fights is the next step Sooner or later you clannfear and twilight are going to duke it out. Right when you need them. And guess what you cant cancel them and you can break it up. Now that would;d be entertaining.1 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
• Combine Rebate and Expert Summoner into a single passive (with the effects of both) and create a new Expert Conjurer passive, along the lines of:
o Bound armour provides a minor vitality buff (4/8%) buff whilst active.
o Daedric Curse applies a minor defile effect on the target until it explodes.
o Conjured ward scales off health if higher than magicka.
This means that the other half of the skill line has a beneficial effect for all sorcerers, makes wards and curses useful for stamina builds without being too overpowered for magicka and buffs Bound Armour to make it more attractive to use as a toggle (and hence on 2-3 bars). This passive alone would provide a shield for stamina sorcerers without affecting magicka ones at all - it would not be spammable in the way that magicka builds can spam shields because the resource used would still be magicka and hence not OP.
Wanted to say again, that I like this
But I must highly disagree with your Mage's Fury suggestion. I'm up for making crystal blast a stamina morph. But not even Magicka Sorcerer has spammable, instant, reasonable damage class spell. I'm still holding my breath mage's fury in general or 1 morph of Mage's fury could become that
I really do.
And for ward. Making it possible to scale of health or Magicka, depending on what your highest stat is, would be very usefull for tanks and also for stamina Sorcerers I suppose. But we must take here, Sorcerer shall not outshine Dragonknight and Templar health shields with his own health shield. Sorcerer doesn't have the same defense of DKs and Temps, so it can have a higher health percentage, but not too big.
Because if a Sorcerer decided to have 40k Health AND ward scales too high, then this is going to be unfair for the other 2 health shields.Edited by Dracane on August 19, 2015 10:45PMAuri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos0 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Thalmor-Nordmaster wrote: »Pet fights is the next step Sooner or later you clannfear and twilight are going to duke it out. Right when you need them. And guess what you cant cancel them and you can break it up. Now that would;d be entertaining.
It's a long way to go, until Pets become worth slotting. Yea, they are good for fun builds. But not for serious business.
I know they can work, but it requires the player to be highly skilled to compensate for what the pets are lacking damagewise, AI-wise and just the way they're working. The player must learn, how to play with 4-6 less skill slots on top of that and he must learn to loose a huge part of his efficience, that the pets aren't capable of compensating.Edited by Dracane on August 19, 2015 10:53PMAuri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos0 -
Jar_Ek✭✭✭✭✭@Dracane Well sorcerers don't have the same defensive capabilities as a DK or Temp, so a shield that scales with health should be okay but the ratios wouldn't need to be the same as for magicka shields.
Also the mages fury instant impact would be compensation for a range reduction to melee range (maybe 10m). However the damage changes would be across the board.Edited by Jar_Ek on August 20, 2015 6:40AM0 -
Ipsius✭✭✭✭If you want to play a stamina character but don't want to slot any sorcerer skills... Why are you a sorcerer?
If there's something a sorcerer has (like Surge) that makes stamina sorcys awesome, that's kind of the tradeoff for not having damaging stamina based class skills.
The changes in the next update make Stam sorcys incredible. I can't believe it's still somehow not enough.
I do agree they could make summons scale from Stam or magick though.2 -
Jar_Ek✭✭✭✭✭I would love to slot more sorcerer skills but objectively most just don't work for stamina builds. Pets don't do any damage as they scale off magicka, and the same with all damage abilities - crystal shards, curses, daedric mines, ightning splash, mages fury, all bar thunderous presence (which is a utility) and the same goes for our best utility skill (conjured ward). Then bolt escape cost increases make it painful for stamina builds to use (it becomes very situational with a 4s cooldown).
Then the majority of the class passives simply don't work for stamina builds (it's a lot better on pts now it must be said) as they affect abilities that don't scale with stamina (Rebate, Expert Summoned, Energised, Disintegrate) or straight out work for magicka builds (Exploitation).
Finally Surge is not quite the awesome sauce you seem to think it is... it does provide brutality and crit based heals (but not any extra from striking multiple foes), but it doesn't work with any DoTs (so no flurry healing or any bow DoTs or DoT from rending slash) and brutality is also available from Rally (consistent HoT with burst heal) and flying blade (ranged single target damage). In fact it is potentially worse than Rally because it has an RNG aspect whilst Rally has a potential burst heal.
So even when you factor in the new passive changes, there is more that needs to be done in order to bring stamina sorcerer characters up to almost the same level as others.2 -
Mettaricana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I would like a reduced range endless fury called endless fist were it is a punch blast of lightning that aoe explodes on kill and recovers stamina then I can scream falcon punch as I finish players and enemies. Also change the other crystal morph to a proc on stamina skill keep the aoe dmg. Also add spell resist to bound aegis. Surge should just be a toggle at this point they keep adding duration and reduction cost just toggle it add the reduce max magika by 5% thing to it while active0 -
kkampaseb17_ESO✭✭✭Mettaricana wrote: »I would like a reduced range endless fury called endless fist were it is a punch blast of lightning that aoe explodes on kill and recovers stamina then I can scream falcon punch as I finish players and enemies. Also change the other crystal morph to a proc on stamina skill keep the aoe dmg. Also add spell resist to bound aegis. Surge should just be a toggle at this point they keep adding duration and reduction cost just toggle it add the reduce max magika by 5% thing to it while active
If it was a toggle it would need two bars. That is bad. Leave it as it is.0 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I would love to slot more sorcerer skills but objectively most just don't work for stamina builds. Pets don't do any damage as they scale off magicka, and the same with all damage abilities - crystal shards, curses, daedric mines, ightning splash, mages fury, all bar thunderous presence (which is a utility) and the same goes for our best utility skill (conjured ward). Then bolt escape cost increases make it painful for stamina builds to use (it becomes very situational with a 4s cooldown).
Then the majority of the class passives simply don't work for stamina builds (it's a lot better on pts now it must be said) as they affect abilities that don't scale with stamina (Rebate, Expert Summoned, Energised, Disintegrate) or straight out work for magicka builds (Exploitation).
Finally Surge is not quite the awesome sauce you seem to think it is... it does provide brutality and crit based heals (but not any extra from striking multiple foes), but it doesn't work with any DoTs (so no flurry healing or any bow DoTs or DoT from rending slash) and brutality is also available from Rally (consistent HoT with burst heal) and flying blade (ranged single target damage). In fact it is potentially worse than Rally because it has an RNG aspect whilst Rally has a potential burst heal.
So even when you factor in the new passive changes, there is more that needs to be done in order to bring stamina sorcerer characters up to almost the same level as others.
They barely deal any damage if your Magicka pool is high anyway. Don't wanna talk about low Magicka Stam Sorcs
Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos1 -
EnOeZ✭✭✭✭Stamina Sorc heading an excellent direction...
Both type of sorcs will be dominant now in PVP.
GJ
However I would love same kind of respectful treatment on Stamina DKs
If DK is of any interest of course... except being target dummies for sorc and NBs.
Cause the fact we can now heal with stonefist is not exactly what I call a Balance Patch...
Angry Customer.2 -
FENGRUSH✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Honestly the passives - even if you find a way to slot them on your bar - dont really change a stam sorc. It adds some flare to it, thats really it. The Stam regen is much more critical, the weapon damage is just that, a bit more damage and youd be lucky to fit 2 skills on your bar from that tree.
Ultimately, these dont increase your survival or fundamentally change anything regarding the HOW a stam sorc is played.2 -
Jar_Ek✭✭✭✭✭@FENGRUSH If you are referring to the suggestions in the OP or the current pts state? The changes, hopefully, make Pets viable (or at least as viable as magicka), provide a way to give stamina builds health based shields, provide a class stamina damage ability and make surge a little more effective. So what are your thoughts on the suggestions? Also note the update to possible surge changes.Edited by Jar_Ek on August 21, 2015 9:36AM0
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Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Sorcerer Stamina Builds vs the stamina builds of other classes: Why Sorcerer doesn't match up.
Here are the four criteria that make a stamina build strong in ESO and why the proposed changes to stamina sorcerer are not yet enough to be considered a serious endgame stamina build.
A stamina build, by definition uses stamina based skills (primarily) for DPS and magicka skills (primarily) for utility. Every class that has a strong stamina build currently has at least one CLASS SKILL (or passive) in each of the following categories:- A direct damage, instant cast, CLASS BASED ability that uses stamina.
- A magika based class utility ability that directly supports stamina by returning stamina, increasing stamina regen, weapon damage/crit, or mobility.
- A class based passive that directly supports stamina by returning stamina, increasing stamina regen, weapon damage/crit, or mobility.
- An class ability that reduces the enemies physical resistance
If you look at what the other classes have in these four categories, you can see why the Sorcerers fall so short in stamina performance and why the proposed changes (e.g. changing lighting form from a magicka based utility to a stamina based "damage" skill) do little to close this gaping skill discrepancy.
Templar Class Skills and Passives that Support Stamina
1. Direct Damage: Biting Jabs/ Stam Javelin
2. Stam Support Utility: Repentance
3. Passives that support stamina: Balanced warrior
4. Armor Debuff: Power of the light
Dragonknight Class Skills and Passives that Support Stamina
1. Direct Damage:Burning Breath, Unstable Flame
2. Stam Support Utility:Green Dragon Blood, Flames of Oblivion, igneous weapons
3. Passives that support stamina:Battle Roar, Mountain's Blessing, Helping Hands
4. Armor Debuff:Burning Breath, Corrosive Armor
Nightblade Class Skills and Passives that Support Stamina
1. Killer's Blade, Ambush, power extraction, and Surprise attack (the mother of all direct damage stam skills:)
2. Stam Support Utility: Relentless Focus, siphoning attacks, power extractions (functions as 1 and 2), double take
3. Passives that support stamina:Master Assassin, pressure points, hemorrhage, refreshing shadows(30% stam regen with no need to slot anything)
4. Armor Debuff:Mark Target, Surprise attack
Looking at this list it is immediately clear what class has the strongest stamina build and why. Now lets apply these four criteria to sorcerer:
Sorcerer (Current)
1. Direct Damage Class Based Stamina Skill: NOTHING
2. Stam Support Utility: Nothing that returns stamina. Bound Armaments (takes two slots), Dark Deal (crippling 4 second channel), Boundless Storm (mobility utility), Critical Surge (expensive as hell, Dots steal big heals)
3. Passives that support stamina: unholy knowledge (5% stam cost reduction)
4. Armor Debuff: NOTHING
Hmmm, I wonder why stamina sorcs are lagging behind the other classes in effectiveness. Let's look at the proposed changes.
Sorcerer (Proposed)
1. Direct Damage Class Based Stamina Skill: Thundering Presence (maybe). Not exactly what I would call direct damage.
2. Stam Support Utility: Still nothing that returns Stamina. Bound Armaments (still takes two slots), Dark Deal (1 sec cast time - improved), Crit Surge (increased uptime will help with the cost and DOTs no longer steal heals)
3. Passives that support stamina: Unholy Knowledge, Expert Mage - Increase spell/weapon damage 2% per sorc ability.
4. Armor Debuff: NOTHING
Here's what I like about the changes: They actually attempt to fix a few existing skills with serious flaws that prevented anyone from ever using them. More testing is needed to see if the new Dark Deal and the new crit surge are effective battlefield skills now. Both used to be too slow, too clunky and way too expensive for a stamina sorc to use in endgame pvp or pve.
What I don't like:- Thundering presence still only counts as direct damage if you are in close proximity to your enemy and activate it at the right time. It will be no where near as powerful or easy to use as something like the Nightblade surprise attack when you need simple, spammable, class based stam DPS.
- Bound Armaments needs another pass. The 8% stam boost is great but the opportunity cost of using two slots is absurdly high. Also, Bound Armaments should boost ALL melee attacks, (not just heavy attacks). Then it might be worth slotting.
- The increased weapon damage per sorc ability is interesting but there is a fatal flaw. Since Sorcerers do not have any strong class based stamina damage skills (see above) they will rely heavily on 2H and other weapon skills to fill in the gaps. As @FENGRUSH said above, this will reduce the effectiveness of this passive.
Here are three things that I think should happen on the next "stamina Sorc" pass.
1. As mentioned in this thread, pets should scale on either stam or magicka (this will help PvE)
2. A "Crystal Punch" skill should be implemented based on this suggestion. Give it an armor debuff and you now have a skill that fulfills Categories 1 and 4.
3. The Streak Morph of Bolt Escape should have its 50% cost cooldown penalty removed if the player lands a melee attack within the 4 second cooldown window. This would allow stamina sorcerers to use Streak offensively, stay in the fight, but still punish them severely if they use it to escape. Mobility is CRITICAL to stamina sorcerers and the new nerf makes the ability way too expensive for anyone but magicka/regen stackers. With this change, stamina sorcerer could use their class defining skill and it would actually be an incentive to use the Streak morph since Ball Of Lightning is the current meta.
If you like these proposed changes, please put this in your signature.
Edited by Yolokin_Swagonborn on August 26, 2015 1:27AM10 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Sorcerer Stamina Builds vs the stamina builds of other classes: Why Sorcerer doesn't match up.
Here are the four criteria that make a stamina build strong in ESO and why the proposed changes to stamina sorcerer are not yet enough to be considered a serious endgame stamina build.
A stamina build, by definition uses stamina based skills (primarily) for DPS and magicka skills (primarily) for utility. Every class that has a strong stamina build currently has at least one CLASS SKILL (or passive) in each of the following categories:- A direct damage, instant cast, CLASS BASED ability that uses stamina.
- A magika based class utility ability that directly supports stamina by returning stamina, increasing stamina regen, weapon damage/crit, or mobility.
- A class based passive that directly supports stamina by returning stamina, increasing stamina regen, weapon damage/crit, or mobility.
- An class ability that reduces the enemies physical resistance
If you look at what the other classes have in these four categories, you can see why the Sorcerers fall so short in stamina performance and why the proposed changes (e.g. changing lighting form from a magicka based utility to a stamina based "damage" skill) do little to close this gaping skill discrepancy.
Templar Class Skills and Passives that Support Stamina
1. Direct Damage: Biting Jabs/ Stam Javelin
2. Stam Support Utility: Repentance
3. Passives that support stamina: Balanced warrior
4. Armor Debuff: Power of the light
Dragonknight Class Skills and Passives that Support Stamina
1. Direct Damage:Burning Breath, Unstable Flame
2. Stam Support Utility:Green Dragon Blood, Flames of Oblivion, igneous weapons
3. Passives that support stamina:Battle Roar, Mountain's Blessing, Helping Hands
4. Armor Debuff:Burning Breath, Corrosive Armor
Nightblade Class Skills and Passives that Support Stamina
1. Killer's Blade, Ambush, power extraction, and Surprise attack (the mother of all direct damage stam skills:)
2. Stam Support Utility: Relentless Focus, siphoning attacks, power extractions (functions as 1 and 2), double take
3. Passives that support stamina:Master Assassin, pressure points, hemorrhage, refreshing shadows(30% stam regen with no need to slot anything)
4. Armor Debuff:Mark Target
Looking at this list it is immediately clear what class has the strongest stamina build and why. Now lets apply these four criteria to sorcerer:
Sorcerer (Current)
1. Direct Damage Class Based Stamina Skill: NOTHING
2. Stam Support Utility: Bound Armaments (takes two slots), Dark Deal (crippling 4 second channel), Boundless Storm (mobility utility), Critical Surge (expensive as hell, Dots steal big heals)
3. Passives that support stamina: unholy knowledge (5% stam cost reduction)
4. Armor Debuff: NOTHING
Hmmm, I wonder why stamina sorcs are lagging behind the other classes in effectiveness. Let's look at the proposed changes.
Sorcerer (Proposed)
1. Direct Damage Class Based Stamina Skill: Thundering Presence (maybe). Not exactly what I would call direct damage.
2. Stam Support Utility: Bound Armaments (still takes two slots), Dark Deal (1 sec cast time - improved), Crit Surge (increased uptime will help with the cost and DOTs no longer steal heals)
3. Passives that support stamina: Unholy Knowledge, Expert Mage - Increase spell/weapon damage 2% per sorc ability.
4. Armor Debuff: NOTHING
Here's what I like about the changes: They actually attempt to fix a few existing skills with serious flaws that prevented anyone from ever using them. More testing is needed to see if the new Dark Deal and the new crit surge are effective battlefield skills now. Both used to be too slow, too clunky and way too expensive for a stamina sorc to use in endgame pvp or pve.
What I don't like:- Thundering presence still only counts as direct damage if you are in close proximity to your enemy and activate it at the right time. It will be no where near as powerful or easy to use as something like the Nightblade surprise attack when you need simple, spammable, class based stam DPS.
- Bound Armaments needs another pass. The 8% stam boost is great but the opportunity cost of using two slots is absurdly high. Also, Bound Armaments should boost ALL melee attacks, (not just heavy attacks). Then it might be worth slotting.
- The increased weapon damage per sorc ability is interesting but there is a fatal flaw. Since Sorcerers do not have any strong class based stamina damage skills (see above) they will rely heavily on 2H and other weapon skills to fill in the gaps. As @FENGRUSH said above, this will reduce the effectiveness of this passive.
Here are three things that I think should happen on the next "stamina Sorc" pass.
1. As mentioned in this thread, pets should scale on either stam or magicka (this will help PvE)
2. A "Crystal Punch" skill should be implemented based on this suggestion. Give it an armor debuff and you now have a skill that fulfills Categories 1 and 4.
3. The Streak Morph of Bolt Escape should have its 50% cost cooldown penalty removed if the player lands a melee attack within the 4 second cooldown window. This would allow stamina sorcerers to use Streak offensively, stay in the fight, but still punish them severely if they use it to escape. Mobility is CRITICAL to stamina sorcerers and the new nerf makes the ability way too expensive for anyone but magicka/regen stackers. With this change, stamina sorcerer could use their class defining skill and it would actually be an incentive to use the Streak morph since Ball Of Lightning is the current meta.
If you like these proposed changes, please put this in your signature.
There are some good suggestions here, but like most of the recommendations I've seen for Stam Sorcs, there is nothing here that's actually going to keep Sorcs ALIVE. They're all about damage and resource management, which are important, but they're not the ONLY things that are important.
The difference between a 6K Hardened Ward and an 18K Hardened Ward is like night and day, but 6K is what Stam Sorcs are still going to be stuck with, even if ZOS implemented all your suggestions. Maybe most of the guys on this thread only care about PvP, so they only care about instant burst damage instead of staying alive longer than 3 seconds, but this build they're asking for isn't going to cut it in PvE.
The only other thing that could make up for a gimped Ward is if ZOS completely removed the cooldown and any other restrictions from Critical Surge. Then you could make a crit build for Stamina Sorcs that could outheal the incoming damage from the tougher Vet Dungeon trash mobs, which would be sufficient, in my opinion. Unfortunately, when I asked Eric about this on ESO Live, he said NO, this ain't happening.
Hardened Ward needs a morph that scales of Stamina. I know some people are asking for one that scales off Health, which would be great for tanks, but it would make all other builds gimped (if they stacked Health) or squishy (if they stacked Stamina). If I had a strong Ward for a Stamina Sorc, I could work around all the other issues to make a viable PvE build.
Edited by Emma_Overload on August 22, 2015 1:51PM#CAREBEARMASTERRACE2 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Sorcerer Stamina Builds vs the stamina builds of other classes: Why Sorcerer doesn't match up.
Here are the four criteria that make a stamina build strong in ESO and why the proposed changes to stamina sorcerer are not yet enough to be considered a serious endgame stamina build.
A stamina build, by definition uses stamina based skills (primarily) for DPS and magicka skills (primarily) for utility. Every class that has a strong stamina build currently has at least one CLASS SKILL (or passive) in each of the following categories:- A direct damage, instant cast, CLASS BASED ability that uses stamina.
- A magika based class utility ability that directly supports stamina by returning stamina, increasing stamina regen, weapon damage/crit, or mobility.
- A class based passive that directly supports stamina by returning stamina, increasing stamina regen, weapon damage/crit, or mobility.
- An class ability that reduces the enemies physical resistance
If you look at what the other classes have in these four categories, you can see why the Sorcerers fall so short in stamina performance and why the proposed changes (e.g. changing lighting form from a magicka based utility to a stamina based "damage" skill) do little to close this gaping skill discrepancy.
Templar Class Skills and Passives that Support Stamina
1. Direct Damage: Biting Jabs/ Stam Javelin
2. Stam Support Utility: Repentance
3. Passives that support stamina: Balanced warrior
4. Armor Debuff: Power of the light
Dragonknight Class Skills and Passives that Support Stamina
1. Direct Damage:Burning Breath, Unstable Flame
2. Stam Support Utility:Green Dragon Blood, Flames of Oblivion, igneous weapons
3. Passives that support stamina:Battle Roar, Mountain's Blessing, Helping Hands
4. Armor Debuff:Burning Breath, Corrosive Armor
Nightblade Class Skills and Passives that Support Stamina
1. Killer's Blade, Ambush, power extraction, and Surprise attack (the mother of all direct damage stam skills:)
2. Stam Support Utility: Relentless Focus, siphoning attacks, power extractions (functions as 1 and 2), double take
3. Passives that support stamina:Master Assassin, pressure points, hemorrhage, refreshing shadows(30% stam regen with no need to slot anything)
4. Armor Debuff:Mark Target
Looking at this list it is immediately clear what class has the strongest stamina build and why. Now lets apply these four criteria to sorcerer:
Sorcerer (Current)
1. Direct Damage Class Based Stamina Skill: NOTHING
2. Stam Support Utility: Bound Armaments (takes two slots), Dark Deal (crippling 4 second channel), Boundless Storm (mobility utility), Critical Surge (expensive as hell, Dots steal big heals)
3. Passives that support stamina: unholy knowledge (5% stam cost reduction)
4. Armor Debuff: NOTHING
Hmmm, I wonder why stamina sorcs are lagging behind the other classes in effectiveness. Let's look at the proposed changes.
Sorcerer (Proposed)
1. Direct Damage Class Based Stamina Skill: Thundering Presence (maybe). Not exactly what I would call direct damage.
2. Stam Support Utility: Bound Armaments (still takes two slots), Dark Deal (1 sec cast time - improved), Crit Surge (increased uptime will help with the cost and DOTs no longer steal heals)
3. Passives that support stamina: Unholy Knowledge, Expert Mage - Increase spell/weapon damage 2% per sorc ability.
4. Armor Debuff: NOTHING
Here's what I like about the changes: They actually attempt to fix a few existing skills with serious flaws that prevented anyone from ever using them. More testing is needed to see if the new Dark Deal and the new crit surge are effective battlefield skills now. Both used to be too slow, too clunky and way too expensive for a stamina sorc to use in endgame pvp or pve.
What I don't like:- Thundering presence still only counts as direct damage if you are in close proximity to your enemy and activate it at the right time. It will be no where near as powerful or easy to use as something like the Nightblade surprise attack when you need simple, spammable, class based stam DPS.
- Bound Armaments needs another pass. The 8% stam boost is great but the opportunity cost of using two slots is absurdly high. Also, Bound Armaments should boost ALL melee attacks, (not just heavy attacks). Then it might be worth slotting.
- The increased weapon damage per sorc ability is interesting but there is a fatal flaw. Since Sorcerers do not have any strong class based stamina damage skills (see above) they will rely heavily on 2H and other weapon skills to fill in the gaps. As @FENGRUSH said above, this will reduce the effectiveness of this passive.
Here are three things that I think should happen on the next "stamina Sorc" pass.
1. As mentioned in this thread, pets should scale on either stam or magicka (this will help PvE)
2. A "Crystal Punch" skill should be implemented based on this suggestion. Give it an armor debuff and you now have a skill that fulfills Categories 1 and 4.
3. The Streak Morph of Bolt Escape should have its 50% cost cooldown penalty removed if the player lands a melee attack within the 4 second cooldown window. This would allow stamina sorcerers to use Streak offensively, stay in the fight, but still punish them severely if they use it to escape. Mobility is CRITICAL to stamina sorcerers and the new nerf makes the ability way too expensive for anyone but magicka/regen stackers. With this change, stamina sorcerer could use their class defining skill and it would actually be an incentive to use the Streak morph since Ball Of Lightning is the current meta.
If you like these proposed changes, please put this in your signature.
These are good suggestions and you highlight the issues well for sure, but I'd rather see empowered ward scaling nicely off health before pets scale off of stam or magicka.You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points1 -
Yolokin_Swagonborn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Emma_Eunjung wrote: »There are some good suggestions here, but like most of the recommendations I've seen for Stam Sorcs, there is nothing here that's actually going to keep Sorcs ALIVE. They're all about damage and resource management, which are important, but they're not the ONLY things that are important.
I am very aware of sorcerer survivability issues and I feel like I addressed it in my suggestions. Nightblades don't have any amazing self heals on a stamina build but they seem to do fine with Vigor (which is available to everyone) and the damage mitigation they get from cloak/blur/ and dodge roll.
Like everyone else here, I am skeptical about the changes to Dark Deal and Critical Surge but they do look better on paper now. More testing on the PTS is needed to see if they are really more battlefield effective with the changes.
Dark Deal still returns stamina and health but no longer has a clunky channel. It now has a 1 second cast time. That would still be challenging in PvP but should it be a piece of cake to pull off in PvE since the stupid NPCs don't know how to use interrupts effectively. Even if you were knee deep in elite mobs you should be able to streak through them, get a group stun, pop Dark Deal and charge back in with a crit rush. I admit its not stupid simple like holding block with hardened ward and crit surge used to be (and would be a slight DPS drop) but it would work.
My suggestion for the streak cooldown reset on melee attacks would give you plenty of crowd control and distance from mobs if you needed it without running you completely out of magicka.
The change to crit surge (so that it does not heal on DOTs and now returns 60% of damage as health) means that you are guaranteed to get a 6k Heal every time you land that 10K critical rush. Like you, I would rather they just get rid of that terrible cooldown for good but this might work. At least I know some DOT isn't going to proc the heal and my rush damage is completely wasted.These are good suggestions and you highlight the issues well for sure, but I'd rather see empowered ward scaling nicely off health before pets scale off of stam or magicka.
As much as a stamina or health based damage shield is tempting to me, I would rather it stay based on magicka. Changing it to stamina or health would be a huge nerf to magicka sorc and I would like to improve stamina sorcerer without nerfing magicka sorc in any way. A health based shield would only help sorc tanks as your DPS would be terrible and a stam based shield would have everyone crying for stam sorc nerfs. That's the last thing we need right now.
Also no one is mentioning the incredible armor potential of stam sorcs with major and minor armor buffs from lighting form and bound armaments.
If we just get a tune up on existing skills, and some actual stamina based damage and resource management, I think we will be fine survivability wise.Edited by Yolokin_Swagonborn on August 22, 2015 3:07PM0 -
Erock25✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »These are good suggestions and you highlight the issues well for sure, but I'd rather see empowered ward scaling nicely off health before pets scale off of stam or magicka.
As much as a stamina or health based damage shield is tempting to me, I would rather it stay based on magicka. Changing it to stamina or health would be a huge nerf to magicka sorc and I would like to improve stamina sorcerer without nerfing magicka sorc in any way. A health based shield would only help sorc tanks as your DPS would be terrible and a stam based shield would have everyone crying for stam sorc nerfs. That's the last thing we need right now.
Also no one is mentioning the incredible armor potential of stam sorcs with major and minor armor buffs from lighting form and bound armaments.
If we just get a tune up on existing skills, and some actual stamina based damage and resource management, I think we will be fine survivability wise.
I specifically said Empowered Ward would be based on health. Conjured Ward and Hardened Ward would stay scaling on magicka. Empowered Ward would also keep the Minor Mending, allowing Crit Surge heals to do a bit better.You earned the 500 LOLs badge.
You received 500 LOLs. It ain't no fluke, you post great stuff and we're lucky to have you here. +50 points0 -
Jar_Ek✭✭✭✭✭Personally I would.prefer the direct damage to be a version of mages fury. A instant, spammable, short range version. Hell I would be happy if it didn't execute if it did decent damage. I Also have to point out that the awesome potential of sorcerers armour is essentially no different to any other classes and a lot worse than some. The effect of a minor armour buff is currently negligible and everry class has access to a major buff.
But I agree empowered could be made a health shield.1 -
Draehl✭✭✭They need to back off all these passive buffs and give stam Sorcs something more iconic to use. A Stam morph of Crystal Frags has been suggested several times. Barring balance issues I think that would be pretty cool. The problem is that stam sorcs are largely just a collection of boring passive buffs propping up weapon skills. I don't play Sorc at all aside from a low level alt, but this would definitely keeps me from even considering playing a stam sorc...Main: Breton Nightblade "Shadow Cleric" (Sustained Damage/offhealer) 5L/2H - Resto + S&B
Alt: Argonian Dragonknight (Stam DoTs/Tank) 5H/2M - S&B + Bow
Alt: Nord Templar Berserker (Rawr) 5M/2H - Dual Wield + Two Hander
Alt: Altmer Sorceror (Pewpew) 7L - Destro + Resto1 -
kkampaseb17_ESO✭✭✭Personally I would.prefer the direct damage to be a version of mages fury. A instant, spammable, short range version. Hell I would be happy if it didn't execute if it did decent damage. I Also have to point out that the awesome potential of sorcerers armour is essentially no different to any other classes and a lot worse than some. The effect of a minor armour buff is currently negligible and everry class has access to a major buff.
But I agree empowered could be made a health shield.
That is exactly why it wouldn't be good as a Mage's Fury cause it would have to go out as an exception to execute version. However, if it was a single target or cone instant Crystal Blast version which would also justify being physical damage (since it is crystal impact) you would also get the chance to heal yourself with Blood Magic.
0 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think, Crystal Blast and Empowered Ward are things, that could be used for stamina builds. No Sorcerer, not even I as a healer will be using Empowered ward for this bonus and no serious person really uses Crystal blast anyway.
Give this minor mending thing to Bound Aegis or Bound armor in general, make Empowered ward scale off health and make Crystal Blast a stamina version. I feel like Sorcerer has more Stamina morphs than any other class ^^ weirdAuri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos0 -
Xael✭✭✭✭✭Survivability is fine. I have weeks of PvP across various different Stamina Sorcs on PTS v2.1. We need more options for damage. Again, we are still a class neutral weapon with the option of skill bloat to make use of passives that barely change anything.
I keep seeing a PvE self proclaimed carebear Magicka Sorc recommending shields, you don't even play a stam sorc, let alone pvp with one. With Rally/Vigor, Boundless Storm, and Shuffle (or Efficient Purge) I have plenty of Survivability. Please stop beating the dead horse regarding something you don't understand. If I were to connect the dots this is your way of shifting the spotlight off Crystal Blast seeing you are the only person showing up consistently in every thread about Stam Sorcs defending the ability and proposing some strange paradigm related to a facet of gameplay you have nothing to do with in the first place.
All these proposed changes are way too much and will not happen. First it's too much work, second it's way too many changes other classes don't even have the luxury of.
Again, coming from someone that PvPs regularly on a Stamina Sorc (in the current v2.1 meta) all we need is Stamina morph of Crystal Blast that mirrors the Frag morph. This will also make use of the Dark Magic passives, something most Stam Sorc lack.
Crystal Blast:
(Crystal Blast Rank IV)
Cost - 2268 Stamina | Cast Time - 1s | Radius/Range 28m range (Enemy)- Conjure dark crystals to bombard an enemy, dealing [x] Magic Damage and knocking them down for 2 seconds.
- Casting other spells & abilities has a 35% chance of causing your next Crystal Fragments to be instant, doing 20% more damage, and costing 50% less Stamina.
- Chance to make ability instant cast.
- Now scales off Weapon Damage and Max Stamina.
Also a redesign to the Exploitation passive:
Rank I
Activating a Dark Magic ability grants Minor Prophecy & Savagery to nearby allies, increasing Spell & Weapon Critical by [x] for 10 seconds.
Dark Magic Rank 39
Rank II
Activating a Dark Magic ability grants Minor Prophecy & Savagery to nearby allies, increasing Spell & Weapon Critical by [x] for 20 seconds.
Dark Magic Rank 50
Problem solved, Stam Sorcs now awesome.I got killed in pvp, nerf everything...2 -
Jar_Ek✭✭✭✭✭Two reasons for suggesting a mages fury morph:
1. There is some dissent wrt crystal blast morph going to stamina and none for endless going stamina.
2. Mages Fury morph would benefit from energised and disintegrate which are damage bonuses and if we are going for a damage ability it would make sense.
3. Crystal blast stamina morph will never be allowed to proc off stamina abilities as it would make it too powerful and would be useless if it didn't.
Okay that's 3.0 -
CP5✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Two reasons for suggesting a mages fury morph:
1. There is some dissent wrt crystal blast morph going to stamina and none for endless going stamina.
2. Mages Fury morph would benefit from energised and disintegrate which are damage bonuses and if we are going for a damage ability it would make sense.
3. Crystal blast stamina morph will never be allowed to proc off stamina abilities as it would make it too powerful and would be useless if it didn't.
Okay that's 3.
Wouldn't stamina sorcs having a reliable source to proc blood magic help them out as well?0 -
Xael✭✭✭✭✭Two reasons for suggesting a mages fury morph:
1. There is some dissent wrt crystal blast morph going to stamina and none for endless going stamina.
2. Mages Fury morph would benefit from energised and disintegrate which are damage bonuses and if we are going for a damage ability it would make sense.
3. Crystal blast stamina morph will never be allowed to proc off stamina abilities as it would make it too powerful and would be useless if it didn't.
Okay that's 3.
1. I don't care that Emma disagrees. He is like the only person in the game using that crap morph and doesn't even PvP in the first place, let alone play a Stam Sorc. His opinion is not valid. We also have Execute as 2h, something superior to MF, Steel Tornado as DW, again superior to MF.
2. We already have stuff that synergizes with Disintegrate particularly Lightning Form, Blast would be no different.
3. Disagree. We already have a magicka version and it's not op at all. It's a 35% chance and otherwise a 1s cast. Nothing op about this considering all 3 other classes already have insta cast abilities of their own which weave into LMH attacks. NB - Surprise Attack, etc, Templar -Jabs/Jav, etc. Blast would be no different.
My recommendation not only fixes Stam Sorcs for PvP but the change to the DM passive also makes them worth bringing to PvE encounters.Edited by Xael on August 22, 2015 5:26PMI got killed in pvp, nerf everything...2 -
kkampaseb17_ESO✭✭✭Two reasons for suggesting a mages fury morph:
1. There is some dissent wrt crystal blast morph going to stamina and none for endless going stamina.
2. Mages Fury morph would benefit from energised and disintegrate which are damage bonuses and if we are going for a damage ability it would make sense.
3. Crystal blast stamina morph will never be allowed to proc off stamina abilities as it would make it too powerful and would be useless if it didn't.
Okay that's 3.
1. I don't care that Emma disagrees. He is like the only person in the game using that crap morph and doesn't even PvP in the first place, let alone play a Stam Sorc. His opinion is not valid. We also have Execute as 2h, something superior to MF, Steel Tornado as DW, again superior to MF.
2. We already have stuff that synergizes with Disintegrate particularly Lightning Form, Blast would be no different.
3. Disagree. We already have a magicka version and it's not op at all. It's a 35% chance and otherwise a 1s cast. Nothing op about this considering all 3 other classes already have insta cast abilities of their own which weave into LMH attacks. NB - Surprise Attack, etc, Templar -Jabs/Jav, etc. Blast would be no different.
My recommendation not only fixes Stam Sorcs for PvP but the change to the DM passive also makes them worth bringing to PvE encounters.
I think I agree with this 100%. Dunno if I would like Crystal Blast more as proced ability though mirroring Crystal Frag....or an instant cast high damage ability mirroring Surprise Attack.0 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Two reasons for suggesting a mages fury morph:
1. There is some dissent wrt crystal blast morph going to stamina and none for endless going stamina.
2. Mages Fury morph would benefit from energised and disintegrate which are damage bonuses and if we are going for a damage ability it would make sense.
3. Crystal blast stamina morph will never be allowed to proc off stamina abilities as it would make it too powerful and would be useless if it didn't.
Okay that's 3.
You shouldn't build around disintegrate. The chance is way too low to be usefull or worth to be mentioned.
Believe me, I wish Mage's Fury was a spammable class ability that would deal compareable to other spammable class abilities. Then one morph could be for stamina
Because the current morphs are barely usefull. I usually leave Mage's Fury unmorphed.Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.
My debut album on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@Gleandra/videos0 -
Jar_Ek✭✭✭✭✭Well if I am honest I wouldn't care either way if it were crystal blast morph or endless fury morph as long as it did the job of a decent , instant damage spell ability... though I agree we don't really need a stamina class execute - hence making endless not an execute. And procing blood magic would be fine - if they made the passives better (i have said before how weak exploitation is for stamina and how persistence is generally weak). However as it stand energised is essentially worthless for stamina even with Thundering Presence and the only realistic way to proc disintegrate... So in my view either would work.
Of course a modified endless fury would actually function somewhat more like the NB concealed strike then mages fury, but with lightning damage and without the secondary effect.
Hell if I were spit-balling a solution I would have endless fury called Boundless fury and have it as a stamina melee range, instant damage that auto criticalled when in execute range such that it would synergies with surge. Obviously the numbers would need to be appropriately worked out. But that's just throwing an idea out there.
0 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Survivability is fine. I have weeks of PvP across various different Stamina Sorcs on PTS v2.1. We need more options for damage. Again, we are still a class neutral weapon with the option of skill bloat to make use of passives that barely change anything.
I keep seeing a PvE self proclaimed carebear Magicka Sorc recommending shields, you don't even play a stam sorc, let alone pvp with one. With Rally/Vigor, Boundless Storm, and Shuffle (or Efficient Purge) I have plenty of Survivability. Please stop beating the dead horse regarding something you don't understand. If I were to connect the dots this is your way of shifting the spotlight off Crystal Blast seeing you are the only person showing up consistently in every thread about Stam Sorcs defending the ability and proposing some strange paradigm related to a facet of gameplay you have nothing to do with in the first place.
All these proposed changes are way too much and will not happen. First it's too much work, second it's way too many changes other classes don't even have the luxury of.
Again, coming from someone that PvPs regularly on a Stamina Sorc (in the current v2.1 meta) all we need is Stamina morph of Crystal Blast that mirrors the Frag morph. This will also make use of the Dark Magic passives, something most Stam Sorc lack.
Crystal Blast:
(Crystal Blast Rank IV)
Cost - 2268 Stamina | Cast Time - 1s | Radius/Range 28m range (Enemy)- Conjure dark crystals to bombard an enemy, dealing [x] Magic Damage and knocking them down for 2 seconds.
- Casting other spells & abilities has a 35% chance of causing your next Crystal Fragments to be instant, doing 20% more damage, and costing 50% less Stamina.
- Chance to make ability instant cast.
- Now scales off Weapon Damage and Max Stamina.
Also a redesign to the Exploitation passive:
Rank I
Activating a Dark Magic ability grants Minor Prophecy & Savagery to nearby allies, increasing Spell & Weapon Critical by [x] for 10 seconds.
Dark Magic Rank 39
Rank II
Activating a Dark Magic ability grants Minor Prophecy & Savagery to nearby allies, increasing Spell & Weapon Critical by [x] for 20 seconds.
Dark Magic Rank 50
Problem solved, Stam Sorcs now awesome.
Since I assume your insulting comment was directed at me, I'm going to respond to it.
"I keep seeing a PvE self proclaimed carebear Magicka Sorc recommending shields, you don't even play a stam sorc, let alone pvp with one... Please stop beating the dead horse regarding something you don't understand."
The reason I rarely build my Sorc for Stamina is because StamSorc is weak as f*** and can't do half the things a Magicka Sorc can, but I do experiment from time to time. I would LOVE to play a Stamina build, but what is the point if the basic Sorc survivability skills are so heavily gimped? Surge Healing is OK against single targets, but it fails bigtime when there are multiple enemies hitting you hard. Hardened Ward scales off Magicka, so it sucks for Stamina builds. The Clannfear costs plenty of Magicka to summon, only around half of which is returned when it dies, so I don't see Stamina builds constantly re-summoning to out-heal damage. Bolt Escape is already being nerfed into a "luxury" spell for Magicka Sorcs, I don't expect to see Stamina Sorcs using it much at all.
I think it's funny you talk about "something you don't understand" when it is clearly YOU who have the extremely narrow view of the issues facing Stamina Sorcs, I'm guessing because you are a PvP-centric player who is clueless about the much larger game being played outside of Cyrodiil. Let me make it simple for you:
There have been TWO eras for Sorcs in relation to survivability. The first era lasted from Launch until Update 1.6, and during this time it was expected that Sorcs, both Magicka and Stamina, would depend on Critical Surge as a self-healing mechanic. BTW, you can go to any theory-crafting forum such as Tamriel Foundry and find builds posted during that era that describe Surge as our most important, class-defining skill.
Then came the second era, when Surge was nerfed by Update 1.6, but Conjured Ward was buffed as compensation. It quickly became clear, even when 1.6 was still on the PTS, that ZOS expected Sorcs to use this Ward as their main "heal", even though technically it's not a real heal. This is ALSO when it became apparent that ZOS didn't give a rat's ass about Stamina Sorcs, because if they did, they would have give Ward a Stamina morph! Instead, only Magicka Sorcs were left with a decent size shield. Which brings us to today and THIS thread...
I don't know if you've noticed, but Bolt Escape isn't the only thing getting nerfed in Update 1.7/2.1. Blocking and Dodging are ALSO getting horrible nerfs! You know, those two mechanics that Stamina builds use to mitigate or avoid damage? It turns out that Stamina builds ARE going to have to eat full damage from time to time. Wouldn't it be nice if Stamina Sorcs had a big ass WARD to eat that damage for them?
But, no, you don't care about all that, you just want that gimmicky Crystal Frag proc, LOL. And you say I don't understand...#CAREBEARMASTERRACE0