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How to successfully remove the Veteran Ranking system
Regardless of your playstyle and experience in previous ESO:TU content, I believe there should be a drastic change in the "end game" portion. Many of my friends and I all agree on one thing: There simply should not be two level caps. Once you hit level 50 (regular level cap), you are told to experience the other factions zones in order to further progress in your "Veteran Rank" to level 14. But we all have experienced the extreme slowness of leveling and even unfairness. Where all of my friends and others had the same problem. We would hit level 50, whether it be grinding or completely finishing out the rest of our actual faction. Yet, when we attempt to level beyond within the other factions, we find that we are going into VR 2 and 3 zones only being 10-30% into VR 1. ZOS are trying to help that issue by releasing consumables that increase 50% xp gains. But, even with the 10% eso plus allows us, we are not getting along smoothly. Mathematically even adding the 50% boost, it still seems as though it wouldn't be enough. Considering the speed of xp gains seems to slow down horrendously. They have mentioned 'Maybe' removing the Veteran Rank. But I assume they cannot figure out the proper way to do so in order to still have easy to access end game content. Because let's face it, having levels to determine where to go to dungeon/quests/pvp is the easiest. But here are my personal thoughts.
What to "replace" Veteran Ranking with:
Whenever a player exceeds level 50 there needs to be an obvious way to get gear, and know whether that gear is good enough or appropriate for dungeons/pvp. In my personal experience and opinion, all gear at the level 50, should be suited with an Item Level. Thus you have veteran difficulty dungeons, each dungeon should have a certain Item Level requirement or Recommended level. You should be able to obtain an easy starter set through an "x" amount of gold, then dive into that according dungeon or start into the oppsing factions stories. Trying high item level dungeons for an increased piece of gear with a higher Item Level. As they want you to experience the other factions past level 50. Certain Story/dwelve quests should reward above average item leveled gear. Also allowing you to progress through Vet Difficulty dungeons. Obviously Craglorn can hold the better upscaled gear whenever your adventure meets closer to an end. Also, we cannot forget about PvP. With PvP, the task of obtaining gear should be slightly tougher than end game, and will be since you're battling other experienced players. With that in mind certain item leveled gear obtained through PvP still shouldn't overpower the Dungeons gear/sets. So, I believe in PvP you can buy a starter set with an average item level with Alliance Points, then the better/best gear is obtained through achievements, how well you play, completing Cyrodiil Dailies, and further on. There can be gear that can be purchased after killing "x" amount of a certain faction/class, gear obtained through emperorship and aiding the emperor, Holding enemy keeps, gathering enemy scrolls, etc. But, that gear would be unlocked and still needed to be purchased with Alliance Points. With ZOS already having "Seasonal Gear" this all would fall into play much easier, and would allow more thought into the gear and playstyle for players, rather than just another grind for levels. I believe the "Champion Points" hold that portion of the game perfectly. But, not on top of Veteran Rank almost over-encumbering the gameplay.
Final Recap:
All in all with a long story short. Item Levels may seem generic and an easy way to make end game. But, why would that be a problem in a game that bases itself off of end game pvp, veteran (heroic) dungeons, and an entire end game zone. Rather than have the levels to grind for to hit a 2nd cap. Have the gear instead, to prove your worth and dedication to the game. Where that still may be the case today, you still can't obtain end game gear without leveling to Veteran Rank 14. And once you do, you can simply buy the gear and the game is pretty much over. When in all seriousness, most players don't want to hit 2 caps. They want to hit 50 and immediately start progressing into Cyrodiil and Craglorn. Which is isn't virtually possible with the setup we play with right now in ESO:TU. Thanks much if you read this. Remember this is all opinion based, but I'd love to hear feedback.
Edited by jeremycgoodb14_ESO on June 18, 2015 9:00AM What to "replace" Veteran Ranking with:
Whenever a player exceeds level 50 there needs to be an obvious way to get gear, and know whether that gear is good enough or appropriate for dungeons/pvp. In my personal experience and opinion, all gear at the level 50, should be suited with an Item Level. Thus you have veteran difficulty dungeons, each dungeon should have a certain Item Level requirement or Recommended level. You should be able to obtain an easy starter set through an "x" amount of gold, then dive into that according dungeon or start into the oppsing factions stories. Trying high item level dungeons for an increased piece of gear with a higher Item Level. As they want you to experience the other factions past level 50. Certain Story/dwelve quests should reward above average item leveled gear. Also allowing you to progress through Vet Difficulty dungeons. Obviously Craglorn can hold the better upscaled gear whenever your adventure meets closer to an end. Also, we cannot forget about PvP. With PvP, the task of obtaining gear should be slightly tougher than end game, and will be since you're battling other experienced players. With that in mind certain item leveled gear obtained through PvP still shouldn't overpower the Dungeons gear/sets. So, I believe in PvP you can buy a starter set with an average item level with Alliance Points, then the better/best gear is obtained through achievements, how well you play, completing Cyrodiil Dailies, and further on. There can be gear that can be purchased after killing "x" amount of a certain faction/class, gear obtained through emperorship and aiding the emperor, Holding enemy keeps, gathering enemy scrolls, etc. But, that gear would be unlocked and still needed to be purchased with Alliance Points. With ZOS already having "Seasonal Gear" this all would fall into play much easier, and would allow more thought into the gear and playstyle for players, rather than just another grind for levels. I believe the "Champion Points" hold that portion of the game perfectly. But, not on top of Veteran Rank almost over-encumbering the gameplay.
Final Recap:
All in all with a long story short. Item Levels may seem generic and an easy way to make end game. But, why would that be a problem in a game that bases itself off of end game pvp, veteran (heroic) dungeons, and an entire end game zone. Rather than have the levels to grind for to hit a 2nd cap. Have the gear instead, to prove your worth and dedication to the game. Where that still may be the case today, you still can't obtain end game gear without leveling to Veteran Rank 14. And once you do, you can simply buy the gear and the game is pretty much over. When in all seriousness, most players don't want to hit 2 caps. They want to hit 50 and immediately start progressing into Cyrodiil and Craglorn. Which is isn't virtually possible with the setup we play with right now in ESO:TU. Thanks much if you read this. Remember this is all opinion based, but I'd love to hear feedback.
From Morrowind to MMO. My adventure carries on.
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BuggeX✭✭✭✭✭
✭no to itemlvl.
dont want to end up like wow with his endless item grind to get feature...
with your Idee, ist like this. i hit lvl 50 for the first time and dont have Gold.
Need to farm first Gold to get a starter set, after i have to farm dungeons or pvp for lvl 2 sets, then for lvl 3 then for lvl 4, and so on...
this is even worse then v14 grind#makemagickadkgreataigan
#givemeaexecute
#ineedheal
#betterhotfixgrindspots5 -
That's the point, though. You start questing in the other factions as you would today when you hit 50. Yet instead of leveling veteran. You would get mediocre to average ilvl gear. Either way it goes down, grinding is a must even for champion points.From Morrowind to MMO. My adventure carries on.0
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Earelith✭✭✭Change the title into "how to transform ESO into WOW".
What about if they remove veteran levels, but you still need to do the other faction areas to reach 50? Should be ok then because of 1 level cap? Is it so difficult for people to accept a different game than the usual "rush to max level in 1 week and then raid raid raid for item level"?4 -
BuggeX✭✭✭✭✭
✭jeremycgoodb14_ESO wrote: »That's the point, though. You start questing in the other factions as you would today when you hit 50. Yet instead of leveling veteran. You would get mediocre to average ilvl gear. Either way it goes down, grinding is a must even for champion points.
Then nothing has changed over all...lol
edit: the grind Goal has changed, V14 for max, LVL 75 for Max, Itemlvl 10 for max, in all case you Need max to Progress raiding, so waths the Point from the removal?Edited by BuggeX on June 18, 2015 9:23AM#makemagickadkgreataigan
#givemeaexecute
#ineedheal
#betterhotfixgrindspots0 -
Dymence✭✭✭✭✭
✭jeremycgoodb14_ESO wrote: »Yet, when we attempt to level beyond within the other factions, we find that we are going into VR 2 and 3 zones only being 10-30% into VR 1.
You are simply doing something wrong then. With ESO plus, when I fully quest-level my characters I end up vr2 not even halfway through the vr1 zone.1 -
Luffy✭Change the title into "how to transform ESO into WOW".
What about if they remove veteran levels, but you still need to do the other faction areas to reach 50? Should be ok then because of 1 level cap? Is it so difficult for people to accept a different game than the usual "rush to max level in 1 week and then raid raid raid for item level"?
Is it difficult for you to understand that the majority of people don't like veteran levels? If they removed VR players this game would be so much more sucsessful and so many more players playing and not quitting. But if it is up to you selfish people this game will die.0 -
Luffy✭jeremycgoodb14_ESO wrote: »Yet, when we attempt to level beyond within the other factions, we find that we are going into VR 2 and 3 zones only being 10-30% into VR 1.
You are simply doing something wrong then. With ESO plus, when I fully quest-level my characters I end up vr2 not even halfway through the vr1 zone.
Lies lies lies.0 -
Ace_of_Destiny✭✭✭✭✭I just have to say NO to any gear related grinding.
I just came from another console game where after 8 months of playing people were/are STILL grinding to get ONE certain piece of gear which groups actually REQUIRE to let you join them for end-game activities....
"LFG; Must Have Maxed Gally!"
NEVER AGAIN!EQUALIZE ALL PLATFORMS!
IF ONE HAS IT...ALL SHOULD HAVE IT!!
)==================================================(
~MegaServer~>PS4 (NA) ~PSN~>Ace-of-Destiny
)===================================================(
I don't care what platform it is on...an MMORPG without Text Chat is NOT an MMORPG!2 -
BuggeX✭✭✭✭✭
✭Change the title into "how to transform ESO into WOW".
What about if they remove veteran levels, but you still need to do the other faction areas to reach 50? Should be ok then because of 1 level cap? Is it so difficult for people to accept a different game than the usual "rush to max level in 1 week and then raid raid raid for item level"?
Is it difficult for you to understand that the majority of people don't like veteran levels? If they removed VR players this game would be so much more sucsessful and so many more players playing and not quitting. But if it is up to you selfish people this game will die.
no ppl understand that somebody doesnt want to lvl through V. But wath does it Change if you put in item lvl and have to grinde this one? or but in CP and have to grind this on? or a new lvl Idee where you collect boobs in silver/Gold, 10 boobs req. for Archive?
it doesnt Change nothing, at the ende you have to grind.#makemagickadkgreataigan
#givemeaexecute
#ineedheal
#betterhotfixgrindspots0 -
Luffy✭I already have one VR14, but why should it take me 100000000 months to level some alts to max level.Change the title into "how to transform ESO into WOW".
What about if they remove veteran levels, but you still need to do the other faction areas to reach 50? Should be ok then because of 1 level cap? Is it so difficult for people to accept a different game than the usual "rush to max level in 1 week and then raid raid raid for item level"?
Is it difficult for you to understand that the majority of people don't like veteran levels? If they removed VR players this game would be so much more sucsessful and so many more players playing and not quitting. But if it is up to you selfish people this game will die.
no ppl understand that somebody doesnt want to lvl through V. But wath does it Change if you put in item lvl and have to grinde this one? or but in CP and have to grind this on? or a new lvl Idee where you collect boobs in silver/Gold, 10 boobs req. for Archive?
it doesnt Change nothing, at the ende you have to grind.
I never said anything about ilvl weapons. In my opinion they should just decrease the amount of xp for Vet levels by 70% so that by the end of Cadwell's silver you are VR14 and then you can choose to do gold if you like, not be forced to do it.0 -
BuggeX✭✭✭✭✭
✭I already have one VR14, but why should it take me 100000000 months to level some alts to max level.Change the title into "how to transform ESO into WOW".
What about if they remove veteran levels, but you still need to do the other faction areas to reach 50? Should be ok then because of 1 level cap? Is it so difficult for people to accept a different game than the usual "rush to max level in 1 week and then raid raid raid for item level"?
Is it difficult for you to understand that the majority of people don't like veteran levels? If they removed VR players this game would be so much more sucsessful and so many more players playing and not quitting. But if it is up to you selfish people this game will die.
no ppl understand that somebody doesnt want to lvl through V. But wath does it Change if you put in item lvl and have to grinde this one? or but in CP and have to grind this on? or a new lvl Idee where you collect boobs in silver/Gold, 10 boobs req. for Archive?
it doesnt Change nothing, at the ende you have to grind.
I never said anything about ilvl weapons. In my opinion they should just decrease the amount of xp for Vet levels by 70% so that by the end of Cadwell's silver you are VR14 and then you can choose to do gold if you like, not be forced to do it.
and then you have to grind 3600 CP, so wath does it Change over all? Explain , i dont understand.
Wath do you think, ppl wich leave becaus V-Grind, are happy and wanna grind through 3600 CP for over 2 years?#makemagickadkgreataigan
#givemeaexecute
#ineedheal
#betterhotfixgrindspots0 -
Tankqull✭✭✭✭✭
✭no
spelling and grammar errors are free to be abused
Sallington wrote: »Anything useful that players are wanting added into the game all fall under the category of "Yer ruinin my 'mersion!"0 -
Earelith✭✭✭Change the title into "how to transform ESO into WOW".
What about if they remove veteran levels, but you still need to do the other faction areas to reach 50? Should be ok then because of 1 level cap? Is it so difficult for people to accept a different game than the usual "rush to max level in 1 week and then raid raid raid for item level"?
Is it difficult for you to understand that the majority of people don't like veteran levels? If they removed VR players this game would be so much more sucsessful and so many more players playing and not quitting. But if it is up to you selfish people this game will die.
What i do understand and developers of many mmos have said many times is that people who use the forums are at most the 5% of the playerbase..you really dont know what majority wants (neither do i). But even whe the majority want something does not always is right.
The majority would want a mail with an item that they could use and become Emperor. There are people called developers and they decide what is best for their game and what player audience they target as potential customers.
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Luffy✭I already have one VR14, but why should it take me 100000000 months to level some alts to max level.Change the title into "how to transform ESO into WOW".
What about if they remove veteran levels, but you still need to do the other faction areas to reach 50? Should be ok then because of 1 level cap? Is it so difficult for people to accept a different game than the usual "rush to max level in 1 week and then raid raid raid for item level"?
Is it difficult for you to understand that the majority of people don't like veteran levels? If they removed VR players this game would be so much more sucsessful and so many more players playing and not quitting. But if it is up to you selfish people this game will die.
no ppl understand that somebody doesnt want to lvl through V. But wath does it Change if you put in item lvl and have to grinde this one? or but in CP and have to grind this on? or a new lvl Idee where you collect boobs in silver/Gold, 10 boobs req. for Archive?
it doesnt Change nothing, at the ende you have to grind.
I never said anything about ilvl weapons. In my opinion they should just decrease the amount of xp for Vet levels by 70% so that by the end of Cadwell's silver you are VR14 and then you can choose to do gold if you like, not be forced to do it.
and then you have to grind 3600 CP, so wath does it Change over all? Explain , i dont understand.
Wath do you think, ppl wich leave becaus V-Grind, are happy and wanna grind through 3600 CP for over 2 years?
CP is not as bad as VR, because at VR14 you are not forced to farm CP, you can pvp, raid and do whatever you like while at VR1 you are forced to level and grind, do you see the difference? it is not hard to understand. I dont really care for the CP and they could remove it if it makes people happy, or put a monthly cap on it or whatever.0 -
BuggeX✭✭✭✭✭
✭I already have one VR14, but why should it take me 100000000 months to level some alts to max level.Change the title into "how to transform ESO into WOW".
What about if they remove veteran levels, but you still need to do the other faction areas to reach 50? Should be ok then because of 1 level cap? Is it so difficult for people to accept a different game than the usual "rush to max level in 1 week and then raid raid raid for item level"?
Is it difficult for you to understand that the majority of people don't like veteran levels? If they removed VR players this game would be so much more sucsessful and so many more players playing and not quitting. But if it is up to you selfish people this game will die.
no ppl understand that somebody doesnt want to lvl through V. But wath does it Change if you put in item lvl and have to grinde this one? or but in CP and have to grind this on? or a new lvl Idee where you collect boobs in silver/Gold, 10 boobs req. for Archive?
it doesnt Change nothing, at the ende you have to grind.
I never said anything about ilvl weapons. In my opinion they should just decrease the amount of xp for Vet levels by 70% so that by the end of Cadwell's silver you are VR14 and then you can choose to do gold if you like, not be forced to do it.
and then you have to grind 3600 CP, so wath does it Change over all? Explain , i dont understand.
Wath do you think, ppl wich leave becaus V-Grind, are happy and wanna grind through 3600 CP for over 2 years?
CP is not as bad as VR, because at VR14 you are not forced to farm CP, you can pvp, raid and do whatever you like while at VR1 you are forced to level and grind, do you see the difference? it is not hard to understand. I dont really care for the CP and they could remove it if it makes people happy, or put a monthly cap on it or whatever.
not yet, just wait for the first 2 dlc and you will se how you Need 400,600,800 CPs
to stay competiv.
you coudl do all you want with v1 btw. ppls just dont want to run AA, RA, Sanctum with youEdited by BuggeX on June 18, 2015 9:55AM#makemagickadkgreataigan
#givemeaexecute
#ineedheal
#betterhotfixgrindspots0 -
Just because gear would have item levels doesnt mean it would be as linear as WoWs LFR/Raiding setup. The normalization that all elder scrolls games offer would still be in place so everyone has a chance to run or complete anything, only more difficult. Also, with champion points in place, that gives the reason to continue on inside the other factions zones. While also getting gear not based on a particular level (only a lower ilvl), say if I'm VR 1 in a VR 2 area, I simply can't wear that gear until I grind, which the previous VR 1 zone was completed 100%. So it's just an iffy situation depending on the speed of leveling and your gameplay style.From Morrowind to MMO. My adventure carries on.0
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Luffy✭I already have one VR14, but why should it take me 100000000 months to level some alts to max level.Change the title into "how to transform ESO into WOW".
What about if they remove veteran levels, but you still need to do the other faction areas to reach 50? Should be ok then because of 1 level cap? Is it so difficult for people to accept a different game than the usual "rush to max level in 1 week and then raid raid raid for item level"?
Is it difficult for you to understand that the majority of people don't like veteran levels? If they removed VR players this game would be so much more sucsessful and so many more players playing and not quitting. But if it is up to you selfish people this game will die.
no ppl understand that somebody doesnt want to lvl through V. But wath does it Change if you put in item lvl and have to grinde this one? or but in CP and have to grind this on? or a new lvl Idee where you collect boobs in silver/Gold, 10 boobs req. for Archive?
it doesnt Change nothing, at the ende you have to grind.
I never said anything about ilvl weapons. In my opinion they should just decrease the amount of xp for Vet levels by 70% so that by the end of Cadwell's silver you are VR14 and then you can choose to do gold if you like, not be forced to do it.
and then you have to grind 3600 CP, so wath does it Change over all? Explain , i dont understand.
Wath do you think, ppl wich leave becaus V-Grind, are happy and wanna grind through 3600 CP for over 2 years?
CP is not as bad as VR, because at VR14 you are not forced to farm CP, you can pvp, raid and do whatever you like while at VR1 you are forced to level and grind, do you see the difference? it is not hard to understand. I dont really care for the CP and they could remove it if it makes people happy, or put a monthly cap on it or whatever.
not yet, just wait for the first 2 dlc and you will se how you Need 400,600,800 CPs
to stay competiv.
you coudl do all you want with v1 btw. ppls just dont want to run AA, RA, Sanctum with you
You can, but with a disatvantage. Decreasing vet xp and removing CP, problem fixed.0 -
I'm all for just simply reducing VR xp requirements. Because I'm outquesting the zones, somehow in a very slow fashion with ESO plus. I just don't see how I end up in a zone 2 levels higher even after fully completing a zone. But, the fact they themselves said they were going to remove Vet Rank without any reasoning or how they were doing it. This was my opinion on how they Could do it. Because I dont think Champion Points are a strong enough idea to carry on through 2 more factions.Edited by jeremycgoodb14_ESO on June 18, 2015 10:18AMFrom Morrowind to MMO. My adventure carries on.0
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BuggeX✭✭✭✭✭
✭jeremycgoodb14_ESO wrote: »I'm all for just simply reducing VR xp requirements. Because I'm outquesting the zones, somehow in a very slow fashion with ESO plus. I just don't see how I end up in a zone 2 levels higher even after fully completing a zone. But, the fact they themselves said they were going to remove Vet Rank without any reasoning or how they were doing it. This was my opinion on how they Could do it. Because I dont think Champion Points are a strong enough idea to carry on through 2 more factions.
The mention silver and Gold will be Optional, for Addition skill Points etc#makemagickadkgreataigan
#givemeaexecute
#ineedheal
#betterhotfixgrindspots0 -
Aneima✭✭✭Veteran levels are probably not going anywhere and this is why I say that.
The devs spent a lot of time and resources rearranging the gear stats along with food and drink stats. Why would they do this only to have to scale all that stuff down again. It doesn't make sense.
Secondly, with the next big update they are increasing xp in public dungeons and craglorn, increasing the xp for "veteran" level quests for people and reducing the amount of xp needed for "veterans"to get max level. Notice the word "Veteran".
In this link they don't say they are removing or keeping veterans levels but reading carefully it seem highly likely that they are keeping vet levels by what was said. Again the key word is "Veteran". Also this was posted recently in June.
http://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/39hegg/news_zos_had_a_console_aua_today_here_are_the/Edited by Aneima on June 18, 2015 2:11PM0 -
Muletide✭✭✭I actually enjoyed the VR leveling. I got to experience the other factions and quests all while collecting skyshards and improving my character. I think I'm at a point in MMO gaming where the journey is better than the destination. Now at VR14 it's boring. The Undaunted dailies were ok at first, but now it's got that repetitive chore feel. PvP is same as it was at any other level: Zerg or be zerged. As far as trials, I'm just burnt out from other games in the end-game raiding department. I have no desire to sign up for raid times, bang my head against a wall for hours, and get a mediocre cookie that will just be replaced in a matter of patches. I copied from PC to PS4 so I could play with RL friends and I'm having more fun leveling fresh rolled characters than doing anything VR14 related.0 -
smokes✭✭✭Veteran levels are probably not going anywhere and this is why I say that.
The devs spent a lot of time and resources rearranging the gear stats along with food and drink stats. Why would they do this only to have to scale all that stuff down again. It doesn't make sense.
1. the devs have already confirmed vet ranks are being removed sometime after console release.
2. rearranging the stats on gear/food/drink may have been done specifically so that it could then be scaled down at a later date.
3. xp reductions for current VR ranks are a bandaid fix until VR rank removal is ready to be patched in (in an attempt to keep the console players happier than pc players were when they reach vet content) - it may be taking longer than anticipated to get all the conversion scripts and changes to mobs/items/scaling sorted.
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Rinmaethodain✭✭✭✭✭
✭Why people are complaining so much about veteran lvls?
Every topic i read is basically "i want to be max lvl but i dont want to spend my time"
Would people complain so much if Veteran lvls would change into regular lvls -> so now it would be lvl 1 to lvl 63 but still starting with lvl50 you would need 1 mil exp to lvl up?
Or are they shocked by this rought transition where from lvl49 to VR1 you need ~200k exp but VR1 to VR2 you need 1 mil?
I dare someone to check the numers how much exp in total you need to "clear" Reapers march for example this zone should last for you from lvl 37 to 43. Im just guessing that its around 500k exp? or even more? Same will go with coldharbour that is supposed to take you from lvl 43 to 49/VR1
The total amout of exp you gain from one pre VR zone is not really lower than amount you need to gain one VR lvl.
Im pretty sure if ZOS would apply exp curve into VR maybe the VR1 to VR2 would need less than 1mil exp but last VR13 to VR14 would need more than 1 mil.
You should be thankful its flat 1 mil.
And yes, it is possible to squeeze out whole 1 mil of exp from each of caldwell silver, gold zone ending with VR12 when finishing caldwell gold - > 0 grind just exploring other alliances and doing quests.
Whats the difference with gaining 5 lvls by obtaining 1 mil exp and gaining 1 vr lvl by obtaining.... same 1 mil exp? Nothing. With first you just get higher numbers and dont complain that much.0
