Day Length Adjustment & Holiday Implementation Concept

Gidorick

This is actually a tweaked and expanded excerpt from a larger post of mine, Environment & Weather Systems Overhaul Concept, but I feel these particular suggestions should be implemented ASAP to help create a more sustainable future for ESO. As much as I want content, holiday events really are an expected part of MMOs and ESO should be no different.

TL/DR
ESO should have the length of it's day adjusted, along with a dynamic day/night cycle and should implement a calendar, which should be observed in-game.

Day/Night Length Adjustment

The total amount of time it should take for one day/night cycle on Nirn should be 10 Earth-hours. This would mean every Earth-day=2.4 Nirn-days. More on why later.

While the difference in length between the day and the night in ESO isn’t exactly unrealistic, ESO includes mechanics for Werewolf and Vampires that could involve more interesting night elements and should offer a completely different level of gameplay at night.

There are two options of enhancing the day/night cycle.

• Equal Day/Night Lengths: Adjust the length of day and night to be the same length of time, giving equal time for creatures of the day and creatures of the night. This would offer an even “fair for everyone” approach to the length of the day and night.
• Variable Day/Night Lengths: Dynamically adjust the length of the day and night to change over time. At one point the day is longer, then the day and night equals out, then the night is longer than the day. This would also be “fair for everyone” but over a long period of time.

I personally prefer the Variable Day/Night length concept as it would make it so players that have bonuses at night would have a period of time that they have an advantage and a period of time they have a disadvantage. Using this concept, the maximum difference between day and night should be 2 hours. This would allow the maximum difference of a 10 hour day to be 4 hours day/ 6 hours night on one end and 6 hours day/4 hours night on the other.

Within each 5 month year we would see a complete day/night cycle, taking approximately 5 weeks to shift between a Solstice and an Equinox.

• Summer Solstice (6 hours day/4 hours night)
• Fall Equinox (5 hours day/5 hours night)
• Winter Solstice (4 hours day/6 hours night)
• Spring Equinox (5 hours day/5 hours night)

ZOS could decide to have every nirn-day shift in length just a tiny bit (about 1.43 minutes) to be as realistic as possible, or just have the day-light extend/constrict by 24 minutes every week. Either way, the end result would be the same: a variable, dynamic day/night cycle.

Following the Calendar and Holiday Events

Using a 10 hour Tamrielic day we arrive at a 365 day Tamriel year clocking in at just about 5 months. If this were the case, in 10 years we would have 24 Tamriel years pass. This isn’t an unrealistic amount of time to have passed in an MMO’s ‘lifespan’. If ESO turns out to be wildly successful and lasts for 20 years, only 48 years would have passed on Tamriel. Being that ESO takes place in 2E 582 and Tiber Septim wasn’t born until 2E 828, there are over 250 years of the Faction War that can be fought. If each of those years takes 5 months we have 104 earth years before “lore” becomes an issue. Lol.

Most importantly though, we could finally have exact day/month of each Tamrielic day in ESO. We could know that the current day is Middas, Second Seed the 14th. Why would THIS be helpful? Well, aside from guild event scheduling and the creation of ESO clocks, it would allow ZOS to incorporate the Tamrelic holidays that so many players are longing for, but in a realistic way that has absolutely no adherence to the Gregorian calendar.

For the 10 hours that is Morning Star the 12th, the people of the Alik’r Desert could offer prayers to Stendaar. Shops could be closed in observance of the holiday and NPCs could be seen praying at the temple and all Redguard players could get a buff on that day.

For the 10 hours that is Frostfall the 13th, also known as the Witches Festival, the Mage’s Guild could offer a ½ off sale, as is tradition. Also, as is tradition, the night of Frostfall the 13th should be filled with an unusual amount of mobs and daedric creatures.

Certain festivals could last longer than the day they are on. Just as in our world, people in Tamriel like to Celebrate their favorite holidays for more than just the one day. They could celebrate a holiday an entire week (about 3 days) or even a whole month (about 12 days)! Festivals could be regionalized and they could include sales, contests, and player items and could all be part of the festivities, both in-game and in the Crown Store. If a player misses their favorite holiday, that’s ok… it’s coming back around in 5 months.

Additionally, Having holidays observed in Nirn could open up the possibility for a little bit of real-world Crown-Store-only holiday observance. While holiday specific items (such as new-life festival items) should be relegated to Tamrielic holidays which, if the above is implemented, would be offered multiple times a year, certain Crown Store sales and limited time events could be offered in observance of Earth holidays.

• A Halloween costume event where certain polymorphs are on sale.
• A Christmas "Feast" where all food items are on sale.
• A Valentines day observation where Rings-of-Mara are on sale.
• New Years celebration where Crown Store respecs are on sale.
• A Summer "Vacation" where XP-pots are on sale.

These holidays wouldn't be observed in-game in any way, shape, or form. They would, however, encourage Crown Store sales. When a Tamrielic Holiday actually synchs up with the Earth-equivalent holiday, ooh man... we should be in for a treat!

Like if The Witches Festival (Frostfall 13th) happens to occur during October 31st, talk about a celebration! New Costumes in the Crown Store, old costumes on sale, sales from a host of in-game merchants, not just the Mages Guild. Increased hauntings could include ghost versions of wild-life that could be hunted for ectoplasm. We could have increased Werewolf and Zombie activity across the board, and from every single dark anchor, Mephala could send her spider-kin in wave after wave of spider-Daedra and spiders ending in a holiday event where players receive a special spider-themed weapon or armor piece from the Dark Anchor's chest. Lastly, for these special synching Holiday Events, super-exclusive items could be available in the crown store, such as a bone-fire Senche-tiger mount. These items would ONLY be available when the Nirn Holiday syncs with the Earth Holiday, not only adding to their exclusivity but also, to their price.

Thoughts?

Naivefanboi

I would enjoy holiday festivals and celebration, not just an excuse to spend money in crown store. But i guess thays content nowdays

Heromofo

You know i support all your ideas Gidorick.

Thumbs up from Heromofo

Gidorick

One of the parts of this idea I desperately want is the set-day/night length which would allow us to have out-of-game clocks. If I could know if it's day/night/whatever holiday, it would enhance my sense of urgency to get in game. Especially if the more immersive nights are implanted from my other concept.

I totally want to have something like this happen to me:

"Oh man, it's the 3rd week of the Tamrielic month (each week only lasts 3 days) and it's going to be night in 2 hours... I should get home so I can visit the Night-Merchant in Glenumbra. I missed him the last time he was available."

Right now I never EVER feel the "need" to be in Tamriel. I want to feel that need. heheh.

Yukian

Gidorick, you have so many great ideas.... i think i love all of them(at least the ones I've seen..) and as one of the many vampires in Tamriel - when ps4 releases - I'll go ahead and say I'd love equal or longer night hours lol. Perhaps on certain days (ex:13th of Frostfall) daedric princes/etc could have an increased influence. It makes no sense to have Mephalas minions coming from a dark anchor(though it could be added anyways, who knows ) perhaps more spiders would spawn around tamriel. On the second of Sun's Dawn sheogorath could cause an abundance of sweetrolls to be lootable from corpses, and 10% of mob spawns would instead be chickens.. etc. o3o. I dunno. I like the idea of a spider invasion though lol.

Gidorick

LOL @Yukian. I love the ideas!

The concept of the variable day/night (to where day is longer one part of the year and night is longer another part of the year) is so that players who are night-creatures get a little advantage during those times.

Honestly, I don't know much about Vamps or WereWolves, so I don't know what kind of night-buffs. The main point is that Night should feel different and play different than Day...

I would even go as far to say that the above suggestion would be a greater boon to ESO than the justice system, which would ALSO get bonuses for night-time play... closed stores, players asleep.... a little B&E action, but more guards are around.

Dammit I want this stuff! lol.

Yukian

Perhaps one day it'll all be added! (although your repository thread has so many ideas.. @.@) But right now i think they're too focused on the console release....q.q....
Maybe a week after console releases everybody should simultaneously post their ideas and see how ZOS reacts.
I know ZOS has a lot on their plate atm but it'd be great to see a lot of the things the community has mentioned implemented... it could improve the game so much more >.<

Gidorick

Yukian wrote: »

Perhaps one day it'll all be added! (although your repository thread has so many ideas.. @.@) But right now i think they're too focused on the console release and all the whiners calling for unnecessary class & skill nerfs all those beautiful suggestions for classes.
Maybe a week after console releases everybody should simultaneously post their ideas and see how ZOS reacts.

I'm really curious how the console players are going to react to no-holidays. They're used to things like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNMi0hMTxUM

MornaBaine

Oh my stars, YES! Especially changing things up (using either method) so that there is as much night as there is day in this game. There is WAY TOO MUCH DAYLIGHT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BBSooner

I agree, in game days should be far more substantial and less like a montage. I'd also like vampire stage progression to be effect by this to be incremented based on this new "day" scale where Stage 1 takes 4 hours, stage 2 takes 3, and stage 3 takes 2.

SgtSilock

Fully supported!

Heromofo

Gidorick wrote: »

show previous quotes

Yukian wrote: »

Perhaps one day it'll all be added! (although your repository thread has so many ideas.. @.@) But right now i think they're too focused on the console release and all the whiners calling for unnecessary class & skill nerfs all those beautiful suggestions for classes.
Maybe a week after console releases everybody should simultaneously post their ideas and see how ZOS reacts.

I'm really curious how the console players are going to react to no-holidays. They're used to things like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNMi0hMTxUM

I can tell you because even Destiny does it they won't be happy.... i know i won't especially because lore friendly versions are there.

SemperFi88

I'm a console player and I can say without 100% honestly that I don't really mind about the no holiday thing, holidays in games don't attract my attention at all. I'd rather have the content over aesthetic changes or different seasonal items.

rb2001

Thumbs up of approval!

idk

Thumbs down. Not interested in fluff but real content.

ThePeskyCrow

Yey! Made up Nirn Holidays! Screw those real earth Holidays! We want Nirn Holidays!!! >:V

coryevans_3b14_ESO

I too like your ideas. I just don't see any of them ever happening.

Good though

MAOofDC

I like your idea but why 10 hrs per day? They already have it set at around 6 hours a day. Or right around 4 days on Nirn for every day on Earth. The way it is now an equinox day would be 3/3 real world time. Sure there will be more years per Real world years but as you pointed we lots of lore time to play with.

Also there already is a clock/calendar of sorts it's one of my favorite add-ons Tamriel Standard Time.

http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info241-Clock-TamrielStandardTime.html

sheacummings

Wow... that was intense.

Well thought out idea!

Danny231

I fully support, all these ideas. And the holiday ideas are really nice. I would like to see some in ESO. In future updates.

SgtPepperUK

Gidorick wrote: »

show previous quotes

Yukian wrote: »

Perhaps one day it'll all be added! (although your repository thread has so many ideas.. @.@) But right now i think they're too focused on the console release and all the whiners calling for unnecessary class & skill nerfs all those beautiful suggestions for classes.
Maybe a week after console releases everybody should simultaneously post their ideas and see how ZOS reacts.

I'm really curious how the console players are going to react to no-holidays. They're used to things like:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jNMi0hMTxUM

Not just console players, as a PC gamer who has played a few MMOs I'm used to special events too and there's been none so far in ESO.

nimander99

That this isn't already in the game after a year, not to mention at the moment of release is a staggering oversight... it's choices to exclude stuff like this that makes me wonder who was like...

"Look guys fans will expect it, cause it's been in every Scrolls game, but just remember the word of the year is 'tradeoffs', it's decently ambiguous and should deflect any question we don't want to answer"

Gidorick

@MAOofDC & @Lsneakl, The reason I chose 10 hour days was because of the following reasons

• The Summer Solstice would have 4 hours Night and 6 hours Day.
• The Winder Solstice would have 6 hours Night and 4 hours day.
• Each day would likely have 30 minutes of dawn and 30 minutes of dusk.
• Longer days and nights would work synergistically with more dangerous nights.
• If festivals were to be implemented, having them available for less than 10 hours would cause many players to miss out on one-day festivities.

And last but not least:

• 24 isn't divisible by 10 so it wouldn't always be the same day or night for players that play at specific times every day. When it is day and when it is night would shift regularly. So for the concept I chose 10 because it's easily divisible. If I had chosen 7 hour days it would be 3.5 hour day/nights. The solstices would have been like 1.2 hours different. that would mean that for the summer solstice we would have 4.1 hours day and 2.9 hours night... it got very "fraction". 10 was a nice round number.

I wouldn't mind days being shorter. I think a day that lasts 7 hours would work great actually. As long as you can't divide OUR days up evenly for Tamriel days.

Let's see... if we had 7 hours, that would give us.... carry the 2... multiply the divisor... a Tamrielic month that would last about a week (8.75 days)... a "season" that would last about a month (26.25 days) a year that would last just over 3 months at 105 days. So about 3.5 Tamriel years for each one of ours. That's completely reasonable I think!

Christmas CAN come 3 times a year.

MAOofDC

Gidorick wrote: »

@MAOofDC & @Lsneakl, The reason I chose 10 hour days was because of the following reasons

• The Summer Solstice would have 4 hours Night and 6 hours Day.
• The Winder Solstice would have 6 hours Night and 4 hours day.
• Each day would likely have 30 minutes of dawn and 30 minutes of dusk.
• Longer days and nights would work synergistically with more dangerous nights.
• If festivals were to be implemented, having them available for less than 10 hours would cause many players to miss out on one-day festivities.

And last but not least:

• 24 isn't divisible by 10 so it wouldn't always be the same day or night for players that play at specific times every day. When it is day and when it is night would shift regularly. So for the concept I chose 10 because it's easily divisible. If I had chosen 7 hour days it would be 3.5 hour day/nights. The solstices would have been like 1.2 hours different. that would mean that for the summer solstice we would have 4.1 hours day and 2.9 hours night... it got very "fraction". 10 was a nice round number.

I wouldn't mind days being shorter. I think a day that lasts 7 hours would work great actually. As long as you can't divide OUR days up evenly for Tamriel days.

Let's see... if we had 7 hours, that would give us.... carry the 2... multiply the divisor... a Tamrielic month that would last about a week (8.75 days)... a "season" that would last about a month (26.25 days) a year that would last just over 3 months at 105 days. So about 3.5 Tamriel years for each one of ours. That's completely reasonable I think!

Christmas CAN come 3 times a year.

I understand, the thing is the 6 hour day cycle has been in the game for a while, and I believe in the K.I.S.S. principle when it come to asking the devs to make changes. Also as far as I know the 4:1 time ratio has been the standard for all TES games. So you are asking for a major departure from what has always been a feature of their games.

Gidorick

MAOofDC wrote: »

show previous quotes

Gidorick wrote: »

@MAOofDC & @Lsneakl, The reason I chose 10 hour days was because of the following reasons

• The Summer Solstice would have 4 hours Night and 6 hours Day.
• The Winder Solstice would have 6 hours Night and 4 hours day.
• Each day would likely have 30 minutes of dawn and 30 minutes of dusk.
• Longer days and nights would work synergistically with more dangerous nights.
• If festivals were to be implemented, having them available for less than 10 hours would cause many players to miss out on one-day festivities.

And last but not least:

• 24 isn't divisible by 10 so it wouldn't always be the same day or night for players that play at specific times every day. When it is day and when it is night would shift regularly. So for the concept I chose 10 because it's easily divisible. If I had chosen 7 hour days it would be 3.5 hour day/nights. The solstices would have been like 1.2 hours different. that would mean that for the summer solstice we would have 4.1 hours day and 2.9 hours night... it got very "fraction". 10 was a nice round number.

I wouldn't mind days being shorter. I think a day that lasts 7 hours would work great actually. As long as you can't divide OUR days up evenly for Tamriel days.

Let's see... if we had 7 hours, that would give us.... carry the 2... multiply the divisor... a Tamrielic month that would last about a week (8.75 days)... a "season" that would last about a month (26.25 days) a year that would last just over 3 months at 105 days. So about 3.5 Tamriel years for each one of ours. That's completely reasonable I think!

Christmas CAN come 3 times a year.

I understand, the thing is the 6 hour day cycle has been in the game for a while, and I believe in the K.I.S.S. principle when it come to asking the devs to make changes. Also as far as I know the 4:1 time ratio has been the standard for all TES games. So you are asking for a major departure from what has always been a feature of their games.

Where did you get the 4:1 ratio? I thought the default ratio for elder scrolls games was 1:30... 1 real minute=30 game minutes so 1 Tamriel day is 48 real minutes... that would be way too fast!

Gidorick

With the current conversation on the forums regarding the apparent Halloween themed items I thought it would be prudent to bring attention to my concept of how real world holidays could be observed in ESO. The scarecrow and pumpkin polymorphs aren't specifically anti-TES I personally feel that their release shouldn't be tired in with Halloween and then perhaps Halloween is when those specific costumes are on sale at a discount. I personally worry that ZOS is going to pull an "available for a limited time" routine for these items during Halloween.

Anyway, I think there's a better way to do this....

Gidorick wrote: »

Additionally, Having holidays observed in Nirn could open up the possibility for a little bit of real-world Crown-Store-only holiday observance. While holiday specific items (such as new-life festival items) should be relegated to Tamrielic holidays which, if the above is implemented, would be offered multiple times a year, certain Crown Store sales and limited time events could be offered in observance of Earth holidays.

• A Halloween costume event where certain polymorphs are on sale.
• A Christmas "Feast" where all food items are on sale.
• A Valentines day observation where Rings-of-Mara are on sale.
• New Years celebration where Crown Store respecs are on sale.
• A Summer "Vacation" where XP-pots are on sale.

These holidays wouldn't be observed in-game in any way, shape, or form. They would, however, encourage Crown Store sales. When a Tamrielic Holiday actually synchs up with the Earth-equivalent holiday, ooh man... we should be in for a treat!

Like if The Witches Festival (Frostfall 13th) happens to occur during October 31st, talk about a celebration! New Costumes in the Crown Store, old costumes on sale, sales from a host of in-game merchants, not just the Mages Guild. Increased hauntings could include ghost versions of wild-life that could be hunted for ectoplasm. We could have increased Werewolf and Zombie activity across the board, and from every single dark anchor, Mephala could send her spider-kin in wave after wave of spider-Daedra and spiders ending in a holiday event where players receive a special spider-themed weapon or armor piece from the Dark Anchor's chest. Lastly, for these special synching Holiday Events, super-exclusive items could be available in the crown store, such as a bone-fire Senche-tiger mount. These items would ONLY be available when the Nirn Holiday syncs with the Earth Holiday, not only adding to their exclusivity but also, to their price.

MAOofDC

Gidorick wrote: »

show previous quotes

MAOofDC wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

@MAOofDC & @Lsneakl, The reason I chose 10 hour days was because of the following reasons

• The Summer Solstice would have 4 hours Night and 6 hours Day.
• The Winder Solstice would have 6 hours Night and 4 hours day.
• Each day would likely have 30 minutes of dawn and 30 minutes of dusk.
• Longer days and nights would work synergistically with more dangerous nights.
• If festivals were to be implemented, having them available for less than 10 hours would cause many players to miss out on one-day festivities.

And last but not least:

• 24 isn't divisible by 10 so it wouldn't always be the same day or night for players that play at specific times every day. When it is day and when it is night would shift regularly. So for the concept I chose 10 because it's easily divisible. If I had chosen 7 hour days it would be 3.5 hour day/nights. The solstices would have been like 1.2 hours different. that would mean that for the summer solstice we would have 4.1 hours day and 2.9 hours night... it got very "fraction". 10 was a nice round number.

I wouldn't mind days being shorter. I think a day that lasts 7 hours would work great actually. As long as you can't divide OUR days up evenly for Tamriel days.

Let's see... if we had 7 hours, that would give us.... carry the 2... multiply the divisor... a Tamrielic month that would last about a week (8.75 days)... a "season" that would last about a month (26.25 days) a year that would last just over 3 months at 105 days. So about 3.5 Tamriel years for each one of ours. That's completely reasonable I think!

Christmas CAN come 3 times a year.

I understand, the thing is the 6 hour day cycle has been in the game for a while, and I believe in the K.I.S.S. principle when it come to asking the devs to make changes. Also as far as I know the 4:1 time ratio has been the standard for all TES games. So you are asking for a major departure from what has always been a feature of their games.

Where did you get the 4:1 ratio? I thought the default ratio for elder scrolls games was 1:30... 1 real minute=30 game minutes so 1 Tamriel day is 48 real minutes... that would be way too fast!

I got the Ratio by using the add-on Tamirel Standard Time. By using this add-on I compared the real world time to the rate that the game world time passed. 4 game world seconds per real world second. This is a 4:1 ratio.

http://www.esoui.com/downloads/info241-Clock-TamrielStandardTime.html

Gidorick

Ok, that's for ESO. You said the ratio is a 4:1 for all TES games.

MAOofDC wrote: »

Also as far as I know the 4:1 time ratio has been the standard for all TES games. So you are asking for a major departure from what has always been a feature of their games.

MAOofDC

Gidorick wrote: »

Ok, that's for ESO. You said the ratio is a 4:1 for all TES games.

show previous quotes

MAOofDC wrote: »

Also as far as I know the 4:1 time ratio has been the standard for all TES games. So you are asking for a major departure from what has always been a feature of their games.

I simply used a real world clock and compared it to the game world clocks and it bared out. But I was slightly wrong the true ratio is ~3.5:1. "A minute in game is the equivalent to around 3 1/2 seconds in real life." Source http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Time

Edited to add link to the source.

VilhelmValhalla4

Another awesome idea Gidorick! A sense of time and place is whats missing in ESO, and this vacuum makes it feel less concrete than the single player games. At the very least, I'd like to have a clock widget to see what time it is in-game. As to your idea, I'd also be cool to see certain in-game days coincide with Daedric summoning days, and perhaps when player housing is added, we can perform private magical rituals on these sacred (or rather profane) days.

Gidorick

I think that page just speaks of ESO time @MAOofDC

1 in game day
-ESO: 411 minutes using the info in the link you provided
-Skyrim: 72 minutes http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Console
-Oblivion: 48 minutes http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Oblivion:Console
-Morrowind: 48 minutes http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Console

I've never been able to find definite timescales for Daggerfall our Arena. The timescales for single player games can really short because time stops when the player leaves the game. What I'm suggesting is the ESO day be extended to 600 minutes. Not that big of a change from what we currently have, I don't think.

Thanks @VilhelmValhalla4! I hope for an ESO where we can have an app on our phone with Tamriel time. Werewolves and vamp players can schedule their play around the night. We can see that a festival will be put on tomorrow by the good people of Riften. So today, I travel to Riften and get a place in the inn so I'll be there tomorrow when I log on. I want to actually miss out on events and specials if I don't log in for a week.