Bug? NB catalyst passive

Junipus

Can anyone confirm whether this passive is working properly?

ZOS state it's meant to give 6/12 ultimate when drinking a potion, however after drinking a panacea of stamina my ultimate didn't move. Is it during combat only? Is the passive bugged since it would give NBs an extra advantage? Has it already been mentioned weeks ago and I'm slow to notice? Any corroboration or enlightenment would be much appreciated.

Cody

The new crappy replacement to catalyst?

I and many others did not even spend the points on it; it sucks in comparison to its former model.

If it is bugged, then bug report it and the like. I'm sure it will be fixed in the next update. ZOS is at least consistent in these matters.

Junipus

Cheers for the input, I'll make sure to /bug it to ZOS and hope they fix it at some point.

ThatNeonZebraAgain

It was reported to not work during 1.6 PTS, but I don't recall if they addressed it or not. Like Cody said, it's just a terrible passive anyways. I would like to see something that helps NB burst healing.

ThatNeonZebraAgain

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Helluin

Out of combat it doesn't work, in combat it works.

Anyway this passive skill seems to be the worst one amongst all classes.
It could have an additional effect or be replaced by something else.

For sorcs there is pretty daily an official answer, it would be nice to receive one also for NB since this passive, Grim Focus, Agony and Executioner received already in 1.6 PTS negative feedbacks.

RavenSworn

I think this is because of the way ultimate is now being energized so to speak. Its meant to add on to what you are currently making the ultimate up, not add ultimate as that is no longer the case with creating ultimate. See patch notes on ultimate generation.

RavenSworn

So in this, ultimate is gained through the buff that you will receive each time u light or heavy attack an enemy. Additional ultimates such as from catalyst or abilities that give heroism buff will be generated during this period. If you heal another player during this period you will also gain the ultimate generation.

So to answer your question, its not bugged, its seriously powerful since you dont have any drawbacks from drinking too many potions. During a fight you can literally gain 12 ultimate every 40s cd on the potions. And light attacks on critters will also generate ultimate.

Hope this helps.

Code2501

uniq_faznrb18_ESO wrote: »

So to answer your question, its not bugged, its seriously powerful since you dont have any drawbacks from drinking too many potions. During a fight you can literally gain 12 ultimate every 40s cd on the potions. And light attacks on critters will also generate ultimate.

Which equates to one whole soul tether after 8 minutes of chugging 12 consumables non stop, in combat, oh so powerful.

Yes, that was sarcasm.

Serious question, can you name me one class passive that does have drawbacks? Cause I can name more than one that gives you benefit greater than 12 ultimate on a consumable and cooldown.

RavenSworn

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l2-mGVBVZD8

watch the intro and he ALWAYS chug down his potions. The passive is suppose to give you an additional ultimate, not generate it on it's own. so no, you don't take 8mins to get one soul tether, its to buff your ultimate generation and 12ultimate is currently very high as a passive.

even the Fighter's Guild passive which gains you 3/6/9 passive only works on daedra and undead. now add that to the catalyst passive which means at one time, you gain 21 ultimate at one go.

With Brawler up as well. So yes, it is powerful since no other passive gives that kind of amt of ultimate at one go. and with constant ultimate generation with Grim focus's need to light attacks, it really makes it useful.

no sarcasm here, just civil discussions mate.

Code2501

uniq_faznrb18_ESO wrote: »

so no, you don't take 8mins to get one soul tether, its to buff your ultimate generation and 12ultimate is currently very high as a passive.

Your quite correct, its not one soul tether in 8 minutes.
Its the equivalent ultimate gain of one soul tether after 8 minutes of combat and 12 potions consumed.

As a player that often leaves a fully charged ultimate on my bar for 10 combat minutes or more till its actually needed, I have to disagree entirely with your assessment of the passive's strength. Then again, I also only use potions when they are actually required. I don't need to chug potions like a skooma addict to be competitive.

I honestly could not name one other class passive, across any of the classes, that I would not prefer over this.

Even Transfer, which equates to an extra soul tether after 10 minutes of weaving siphoning spells is in my opinion better, because it does not require you to swallow 12 potions to get it. I have a full set of alchemy passives giving me 4 pots per with 30% duration and no negatives, but still, I don't use potions on tap, because reagents take time to collect or coin to buy.

Different strokes for different folks I guess.

RavenSworn

Ah i see, true that mate, its just that my gameplay, while totally different from the vid and yours, really needs that ultimate to be up almost all the time. i use my Harvest which while may not be the best NB ( hell it should have been better as an ultimate) ultimate but to have that extra button to press with the potions does not make my levelling mundane at all.

i kill faster, my pots are also low level ( which makes this passive abit..weird since ANY pots will do) which incidentally gives me weapon crits... it helps much.

i will agree though, alot of the NB abilities are left to be desired for but as of right now( cloak im looking at you), after update 6, its really looking up for NBs. i basically mow down mobs that were initially hard for me. I am happy with where NBs stand right now in terms of dps in PvE and PvP.

ThatNeonZebraAgain

Ultimate generation isn't as big of an issue as it was originally thought when they unveiled the new system for it back in January. All classes and roles gain ultimate at the same pace, which is still pretty fast, whether it is PvE or PvP. What NBs (and Argonians) really lost with Catalyst was a way to have decent burst heals -- something that is more important now than ever with TTK (time to kill) being incredibly low in PvP (basically 2-3 seconds). Before 1.6 as an Argonian NB, VR5 crafted health potions used to restore about 1.5k health (or ~15k health now with 1.6 numbers) every 20 seconds. It was amazing, and incredibly useful in both PvP and PvE survivability. Since NBs have no reliable burst self-heal, I counted on these big potions to get me out of tough situations, especially against DKs and Templars that have powerful instant self-heals. Even if you stack all the self-healing NBs have (which would be completely unviable in PvP and PvE), it would still not equal what one Green Dragon Blood could do (Reaper's Mark being the exception, but it still relies on killing your target first). Other classes can use potions too of course, but theirs weren't as strong as NBs. That was a crucial part of the class that was lost with 1.6, and something that needs to come back. NBs need better burst self-heal more than they need help generating ultimate.

Given that there is a Champion constellation passive that increases effectiveness of healing potions, I suggest Catalyst either provide the same benefit, or provide the same benefit as what Argonians received: Restore 15/30% of Health, Magicka, and Stamina on potion use. That way Argonian and NB passives would stack again, and NBs as a class would have access to a solid burst heal every 40 seconds. I would also like to see Catalyst reduce the potion cooldown as well, but I realize that may be too much.

Helluin

Are you evaluating this passive negative or positive from a PvE or PvP point of view or both?
At VR14 or leveling up?

What I wrote is mainly about PvP at VR14.
Personally I have no issues with ultimate generation but I have those with what stated by @ThatNeonZebraAgain , at least with Stamina build and before unlock Vigor.
Add to this the bug to the healing effect of Killer's Blade and so the healing options are quite limited, while before 1.6 healing potions were really important in some builds (also because there was an HoT and now instead a buff to health recovery).

RavenSworn

Personally I feel the change to the potions is the ones that shouldnt have been done. I can see why only nightblades receive this passive and it was to counter the fact that you dont have a burst heal with the class skills.

Potions should return as per before update 6 and this should help much with that particular passive.

ThatNeonZebraAgain

uniq_faznrb18_ESO wrote: »

Personally I feel the change to the potions is the ones that shouldnt have been done. I can see why only nightblades receive this passive and it was to counter the fact that you dont have a burst heal with the class skills.

Potions should return as per before update 6 and this should help much with that particular passive.

Unfortunately, Potion Effectiveness passives had to be removed because of how potion effects were consolidated into the Major/Minor buff system in 1.6 (see this thread for an in-depth explanation). Not that I completely agree with that system, but it is what it is.

I do agree with @Helluin though that they should revert the Health Recovery "buff" from potions back to a HoT. NBs (and Argonians, hehe) also have passives that boost healing received, which would also help us benefit from potions. Moreover, the Shadow line also has another passive that helps with ultimate generation: Transfer gives 1 ultimate every time you use a Shadow ability (with a cooldown of 4 seconds). Transfer doesn't cost gold (like potions do), and also allows you to gain the effects of the ability being used. If they were concerned about NBs not being able to generate ultimate at the same rate as other classes, reduce the cooldown or increase the amount of ultimate that Transfer would grant while also changing Catalyst to something like I already described.

Helluin

@ThatNeonZebraAgain I was not proposing to remove from potions the major buff for recovery (at least for stamina and magicka) but just explaining the difference before and after 1.6.
I think infact that Catalyst could gain an additional effect like an HoT or something else.

Wreuntzylla

I use incapacitating strike the most in PvP and catalyst means I can use that ultimate quickly in combat. Also, the in-combat restriction doesn't affect you that much in Cyrodiil due to the in-combat bug, so often the ultimate is up and ready just using detect pots...

I'm not sure the combination of things that goes into it (I'll check when I have time), but often right after using incapacitating strike and a potion I'm almost ready for another...