Khajiit breeds

Dekkameron

Hullo, i was reading up on some lore about the Khajiit and i came across some interesting stuff about then regarding different "breeds" of Khajiit depending on the phases of the moons.

Talk about breeds starts at 1:30 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MteinMPdHP8
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Khajiit

I thought i'd link a few interesting ones.

Suthay-raht

Similar in height and build to the race of man, the Suthay-raht are one of the most common breeds of Khajiit. Their coloring ranges from dark brown and orange, to light yellow, both with and without stripes and spots. Suthay-raht are often referred to as "Ja'Khajiit" (meaning "kitten") by those of other races.

Alfiq

A quadrupedal form of Khajiit, the Alfiq is, in many respects, similar to a common housecat. Although diminutive in form, the Alfiq retain the keen intelligence of the Khajiiti, having the ability to understand the spoken word of others, although unable to respond. It is possible that they can cast spells.

Cathay-raht

A Khajiiti form determined by Lunar Lattice (ja'Kha'jay): when moons Masser and Secunda are waxing. Larger and stronger than the Cathay, the Cathay-raht are often described by non-Khajiit races as "jaguar-men"

Ohmes

Similar in many ways to the Bosmer, although generally of lesser stature. In order to avoid being mistaken as one of the Bosmer many Ohmes tattoo their faces to resemble a feline-aspect. The Ohmes is the most common form seen outside of the province of Elsweyr, taking advantage of other races' preference to their appearance to serve in positions of ambassadorship and trade. It is possible that the Ohmes are the breed seen across Tamriel at the end of the fourth century of the Third Era.

Senche-raht

Larger and slower than the Senche, the Senche-raht are also possessed of a shorter body-span and straighter legs. The average Senche-raht stands as tall as two Altmer and can weigh as much or more than fifty. Like the Senche, Senche-raht are also employed as steeds, notably in battle, whence they earned the title "battlecats" from Imperial troopers

Some of these obviously seem to have only been seen in later eras, but it would be nice if it was possible to choose one of the other types. (espesh the little kitty one hehe)

Just thought i'd mention it.

isengrimb16_ESO

Frankly, I'm glad not to see the ridiculous "ohmes" - if you look at Arena, it looks like the devs at the time were dead scared to try introducing actual beast races. Even the so-called Argonians have human faces.

It looks like they slowly balled up over time, and realized that not everyone wants/needs nothing but humany people to take a game/world semi-seriously.

I would be glad to hear that, as of about the end of the third era, those damn "ohmes" went completely extinct due to cross-breeding with the elves they really were. Seriously, they looked not like anything catlike, but like kids on their way to some weird anime convention - bleah.

If we want new races/species, I'd much rather see the fox-folk get rediscovered as a player race. Fantasy worlds have enough elves and stuff (and humans are like cockroaches, they get in everywhere.)

scriber

isengrimb16_ESO wrote: »

Frankly, I'm glad not to see the ridiculous "ohmes" - if you look at Arena, it looks like the devs at the time were dead scared to try introducing actual beast races. Even the so-called Argonians have human faces.

It looks like they slowly balled up over time, and realized that not everyone wants/needs nothing but humany people to take a game/world semi-seriously.

I would be glad to hear that, as of about the end of the third era, those damn "ohmes" went completely extinct due to cross-breeding with the elves they really were. Seriously, they looked not like anything catlike, but like kids on their way to some weird anime convention - bleah.

If we want new races/species, I'd much rather see the fox-folk get rediscovered as a player race. Fantasy worlds have enough elves and stuff (and humans are like cockroaches, they get in everywhere.)

Just what we need... more furry fodder. I kid, I kid. I'd like to play the fox folk, too. Or some of the more beastly khajiit.

pinstripesc

Cool.

k9mouse

The sub Khajiit races a cool. It helps to keep the lore more interesting. Khajiit and Argonians have a long and interesting past.

It will be cool to see some more sub races in ESO.

Khenarthi

This is why I hate finding bands of senche as enemies with no explanationat all. They're not just animals, they are people... but we do not know why they are by themselves in the wild like a pride of lions. A Khajiit tribe should have several types. Are these senche all bandits? If so, wy areall of them senche? Is it a cult or faction we were never told about?

Finding the crafting station with the funny named senche in Greenshade or Grahtwood was a good surprise though.

isengrimb16_ESO

Khenarthi wrote: »

This is why I hate finding bands of senche as enemies with no explanationat all. They're not just animals, they are people... but we do not know why they are by themselves in the wild like a pride of lions. A Khajiit tribe should have several types. Are these senche all bandits? If so, wy areall of them senche? Is it a cult or faction we were never told about?

Finding the crafting station with the funny named senche in Greenshade or Grahtwood was a good surprise though.

Agree on that one. I try to avoid tigers now, when I can, after seeing a chart like the above a while back. They should be neutral, not hostile. But then, if they can't speak or write or have no formalized sign language, we can never know why they're hostile.

And I don't see why they can't use formalized sign language. Apes can use ours; there's no reason the Khajit couldn't have come up with a way to communicate with their own immediate relatives.

Dekkameron

I edited my original post to add the links i saw.

Dekkameron

Oh and while i'm at it..

Where are the Imga race? They live side by side in Valenwood with the Bosmer yet i haven't seen any.

http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Imga

magickats242cub18_ESO

I like the Khajit how they are. My only problem is that they have the calico pelt option for the male Khajits. Everybody knows that there are no male calicos, and the few that do exist are infertile.

Sihnfahl

isengrimb16_ESO wrote: »

They should be neutral, not hostile. But then, if they can't speak or write or have no formalized sign language, we can never know why they're hostile.

Why should they be neutral? They're still intelligent, just not bipedal nor capable of speech that most folks understand (other khajiit can communicate with them).

The senche that are hostile could have gone 'feral'. Sort of like the bosmeri that have given themselves to Hircine.

brandon

Dekkameron wrote: »

Hullo, i was reading up on some lore about the Khajiit and i came across some interesting stuff about then regarding different "breeds" of Khajiit depending on the phases of the moons.

Talk about breeds starts at 1:30 http://youtu.be/MteinMPdHP8?t=1m30s
http://www.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Khajiit

I thought i'd link a few interesting ones.

Suthay-raht

Similar in height and build to the race of man, the Suthay-raht are one of the most common breeds of Khajiit. Their coloring ranges from dark brown and orange, to light yellow, both with and without stripes and spots. Suthay-raht are often referred to as "Ja'Khajiit" (meaning "kitten") by those of other races.

Alfiq

A quadrupedal form of Khajiit, the Alfiq is, in many respects, similar to a common housecat. Although diminutive in form, the Alfiq retain the keen intelligence of the Khajiiti, having the ability to understand the spoken word of others, although unable to respond. It is possible that they can cast spells.

Cathay-raht

A Khajiiti form determined by Lunar Lattice (ja'Kha'jay): when moons Masser and Secunda are waxing. Larger and stronger than the Cathay, the Cathay-raht are often described by non-Khajiit races as "jaguar-men"

Ohmes

Similar in many ways to the Bosmer, although generally of lesser stature. In order to avoid being mistaken as one of the Bosmer many Ohmes tattoo their faces to resemble a feline-aspect. The Ohmes is the most common form seen outside of the province of Elsweyr, taking advantage of other races' preference to their appearance to serve in positions of ambassadorship and trade. It is possible that the Ohmes are the breed seen across Tamriel at the end of the fourth century of the Third Era.

Senche-raht

Larger and slower than the Senche, the Senche-raht are also possessed of a shorter body-span and straighter legs. The average Senche-raht stands as tall as two Altmer and can weigh as much or more than fifty. Like the Senche, Senche-raht are also employed as steeds, notably in battle, whence they earned the title "battlecats" from Imperial troopers

Some of these obviously seem to have only been seen in later eras, but it would be nice if it was possible to choose one of the other types. (espesh the little kitty one hehe)

Just thought i'd mention it.

I read somewhere before the game came out that ZOS said they might add different breeds in later

Chatoyancy

If ESO would let me play as an Alfiq, bugs be damned, I will give them all my money. #priorities

isengrimb16_ESO

Sihnfahl wrote: »

isengrimb16_ESO wrote: »

They should be neutral, not hostile. But then, if they can't speak or write or have no formalized sign language, we can never know why they're hostile.

Why should they be neutral? They're still intelligent, just not bipedal nor capable of speech that most folks understand (other khajiit can communicate with them).

The senche that are hostile could have gone 'feral'. Sort of like the bosmeri that have given themselves to Hircine.

The problem is - as stated by someone else above - that we can't really know why they're hostile. The feral Bosmer can be drilled for information - they can tell us about their Hircine worship. These cats, there's no explanation as to why these people are always - ALWAYS - hostile, even to other (player) Khajit.

They need to at least come up with a way for Senches and Alfiq to communicate. It's not like they consider themselves separate species, apparently (like humans and chimps, though I don't think anyone ever dared try mixing gametes in a test tube to really find out whether we're one species or two), so there's no reason they shouldn't have come up with a means of communication.

I mean, imagine it. You're a regular (player style) Khajit mom and dad, and you give birth to .. a tiger cub. Which you then have to raise, without benefit of language. Yes, they understand speech, but so does my cat (to a surprising extent). Is this really a person, or is it a pet? Unless they are prejudiced and refuse to recognize them as people at any cost (in the same way Noam Chomsky reacted against the idea of apes using any kind of language. That somehow offended his sensibilities so hard, he redefined language over and over until he finally took it out of the mouths of five year old children. So much for the underdog, Noam.) But I've seen no evidence for such prejudice amongst the Khajit so far.

Lynx7386

All khajiit are born looking the same, it isnt until their first few weeks in that they begin to shift into whatever form the moons decided for them at birth.

I do agree that it's probably strange for, say, a cathay khajiit to raise an alfiq or senche as a child, but I would assume there are methods of communication we simply arent aware of. Body language is huge among the animal kingdom and can say quite a bit for not being vocal, and even animals can communicate verbally (though without a structured language). It's possible that senche and alfiq are capable of telepathic communication via magical means (alfiq are considered the most magically talented of the khajiit subspecies).

As far as making these races playable... I dont think we'll ever be able to play a quadruped, it would just cause too many issues. I would like to see the option to go for the digitigrade khajiit (suthay?) and I'd definitely prefer to have made my main a Cathay-Raht khajiit warrior towering over even the altmer and charging into battle with a massive 2hander =P

I'm still hopeful at this point that we'll see senche-raht mounts added to the game, we already know there is a confirmed guar mount being added so it isnt outside the realm of possibility.

Evergnar

House cat. A sneaky super secret khajiit house cat spy. That's what I want to be.

isengrimb16_ESO

I do agree that it's probably strange for, say, a cathay khajiit to raise an alfiq or senche as a child, but I would assume there are methods of communication we simply arent aware of. Body language is huge among the animal kingdom and can say quite a bit for not being vocal, and even animals can communicate verbally (though without a structured language). It's possible that senche and alfiq are capable of telepathic communication via magical means (alfiq are considered the most magically talented of the khajiit subspecies).

Well, Beth or Zeni really needs to work on that, and let at least Khajiti players be able to communicate with the things. I mean, I would like to know why every Senche in Tamriel gets upset when I come near. I can see them wanting to eat elves and humans, sure, but random passing-by Khajit with whom they should be able to communicate? As far as I know, only the Bosmer are cannibals.

SecuFox

isengrimb16_ESO wrote: »

Frankly, I'm glad not to see the ridiculous "ohmes" - if you look at Arena, it looks like the devs at the time were dead scared to try introducing actual beast races. Even the so-called Argonians have human faces.

It looks like they slowly balled up over time, and realized that not everyone wants/needs nothing but humany people to take a game/world semi-seriously.

I would be glad to hear that, as of about the end of the third era, those damn "ohmes" went completely extinct due to cross-breeding with the elves they really were. Seriously, they looked not like anything catlike, but like kids on their way to some weird anime convention - bleah.

If we want new races/species, I'd much rather see the fox-folk get rediscovered as a player race. Fantasy worlds have enough elves and stuff (and humans are like cockroaches, they get in everywhere.)

Indeed. I could not agree more.

Gan Xing

Can one tell this Khajiit more about the rumored Dagi-raht and Tojay-raht. It also seems to this one that the mounts that many ride known as senche, may actually be Pahmar-raht.. Any suggestions?

Gidorick

Gan Xing wrote: »

Can one tell this Khajiit more about the rumored Dagi-raht and Tojay-raht. It also seems to this one that the mounts that many ride known as senche, may actually be Pahmar-raht.. Any suggestions?

Ah! Let Dar-Ja'Taba assist in your curiosity! This one too was curious if the beasts we ride are of our furstock. The four legged one that Ja'Taba's friend, Gidorick Malborn, rides seems as dimwitted as an Orc. After Khajiit spent many a moon trying to communicate with the beast called Hobs, this one sought the counsil of Moon Bishop Hulan. This is what he told Khajiit:

Lawrence_Schick wrote: »

OFFICIAL ANSWER: Moon Bishop Hulan says, “Many hairless ones are confused by the term ‘senche,’ since we Khajiit use it to mean a variety of things. It is used as ‘senche’ and ‘senche-raht’ to refer to two of the seventeen distinct furstocks, or ‘breeds,’ of Khajiit. The senche-raht, in fact, are the largest of us! But we also use the term ‘senche-tiger’ to refer to our more catlike cousins of lesser sentience. Indeed, depending upon the appearance of these cousins, we might even call them ‘senche-leopards’ or ‘senche-panthers.’ So you see that the term ‘senche’ is very flexible indeed, as changeable as the Moons.”

Senche Mount. Khajiit or not Khajiit? (With the response from Lawrence Schick)

So the mounts are mindless beasts. This makes Ja'Taba feel relief. This one knows no self respecting Khajiit that would be accepting of a Dunmer or a Nord on his back. This doesn't mean that a Pahmar-raht could pretend to be one of these mindless beasts out of devotion to his rider or while practicing espionage. We Khajiit are quite sly, so this one wouldn't put it past us.



As for the Dagi-raht and Tojay-raht, many of Khajiit's brothers and sisters are of this furstock.Tojay and Tojay-raht is a spindly khajiit with low set ears. They tend to be playful and this one's sisters who are Tojay-raht are quite bothersome. Ja'Taba's brother who is Dagi-raht has been missing for many many moons. He was a shady sort and played rarely. He kept to the trees and the tops of buildings and was not to be trusted. This one suspects his Dagi-raht brethren may have been recruited by the Dark Brotherhood. This makes Ja'Taba sad and scared for his kin.

This one hopes Ja'Taba has helped sate some of your curiosity. May the moons always shine on your shoulders.

gidorick wrote:

(Psst... if you want to know more about the furstocks, I went through them here)
Suggestions for an eventual Khajiit-centric update

I also suggested a way for ZOS to allow us to make different Khajiit and Argonian breeds as characters: Monetization of Character Creation Concept

Robo_Hobo

I used a lot of khajiit mods on skyrim once to make a picture showing what I think all of the bipedal forms of khajiit look like, well, all except the dagi/dagi-raht as I couldnt work my interpretation into tge mods I found.

Maybe you'd like to see it, theres a list of the mods in the description as well as a link to a big article-journal I wrote, going in depth about all forms and the various different interpretations Ive seen for them.

http://aedricdaedra.deviantart.com/art/Bipedal-Khajiit-Forms-546348838

JDar

I think they went overboard on the cuteness of khajiit in this game but that doesn't bother me that much

ProfessorKittyhawk

It would be cool if at some point, either in ESO or a future ES title, that they give you the ability to pick one of the various kinds of Khajiit to play as. Maybe have you pick a birth date in game to determine the moon phase and thus which type of Khajiit you'd be. For a race with so many different varieties, it just seems odd to only have one type per game.

Gidorick

Nicely done @Robo_Hobo. I made a slight change to your image. I believe the Tojay to be close to the Ohmes' size. And the Tojay-Raht is closer to the size of the Ohmes-Raht, Cathay and Suthay Raht.

I like how the one's you have chosen to display are the exact ones that I suggested be added to ESOs character creator.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/141710/suggestions-for-an-eventual-khajiit-centric-update/p1

I really think it's a shame that ESO wasn't that game from the get-go @ProfessorKittyhawk. It is understandable to explain that "during such-and-such time the prominent type of Khajiit in this region was this one type" to explain why the TES games only have one type of Khajiit each. ESO spans all of Tamriel. To not have the different Khajiit represented, and playable, is a pretty big oversight.

Robo_Hobo

Gidorick wrote: »

Nicely done @Robo_Hobo. I made a slight change to your image. I believe the Tojay to be close to the Ohmes' size. And the Tojay-Raht is closer to the size of the Ohmes-Raht, Cathay and Suthay Raht.

I like how the one's you have chosen to display are the exact ones that I suggested be added to ESOs character creator.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/141710/suggestions-for-an-eventual-khajiit-centric-update/p1

I really think it's a shame that ESO wasn't that game from the get-go @ProfessorKittyhawk. It is understandable to explain that "during such-and-such time the prominent type of Khajiit in this region was this one type" to explain why the TES games only have one type of Khajiit each. ESO spans all of Tamriel. To not have the different Khajiit represented, and playable, is a pretty big oversight.

Lol, I wanted to put a Dagi in there but, yeah, here's the closest skyrim mod I could find of my interpretation of a Dagi:

http://static-3.nexusmods.com/15/mods/110/images/37413-1-1371776007.jpg


Also here's a closer look of the Ohmes, 'cause it's hard to tell much of the detail from so zoomed out.

http://orig01.deviantart.net/ab91/f/2015/194/b/1/jshabi_in_skyrim_by_aedricdaedra-d9159p9.png

And yeah, having the various forms would allow so much storytelling opportunities, it really is a shame it's not used more. I'm currently writing a large fanfiction about the Void Nights of 4E 98-100, and how the land of Elsweyr and the Khajiit fared during that time. I use all of the different forms in it, and it's so much fun to write about them. It's called 'Living Under Void Nights' if you want to give it a read, recently finished act 1 of 4.

Recremen

Gidorick wrote: »

Gan Xing wrote: »

Can one tell this Khajiit more about the rumored Dagi-raht and Tojay-raht. It also seems to this one that the mounts that many ride known as senche, may actually be Pahmar-raht.. Any suggestions?

Ah! Let Dar-Ja'Taba assist in your curiosity! This one too was curious if the beasts we ride are of our furstock. The four legged one that Ja'Taba's friend, Gidorick Malborn, rides seems as dimwitted as an Orc. After Khajiit spent many a moon trying to communicate with the beast called Hobs, this one sought the counsil of Moon Bishop Hulan. This is what he told Khajiit:

Lawrence_Schick wrote: »

OFFICIAL ANSWER: Moon Bishop Hulan says, “Many hairless ones are confused by the term ‘senche,’ since we Khajiit use it to mean a variety of things. It is used as ‘senche’ and ‘senche-raht’ to refer to two of the seventeen distinct furstocks, or ‘breeds,’ of Khajiit. The senche-raht, in fact, are the largest of us! But we also use the term ‘senche-tiger’ to refer to our more catlike cousins of lesser sentience. Indeed, depending upon the appearance of these cousins, we might even call them ‘senche-leopards’ or ‘senche-panthers.’ So you see that the term ‘senche’ is very flexible indeed, as changeable as the Moons.”

Senche Mount. Khajiit or not Khajiit? (With the response from Lawrence Schick)

So the mounts are mindless beasts. This makes Ja'Taba feel relief. This one knows no self respecting Khajiit that would be accepting of a Dunmer or a Nord on his back. This doesn't mean that a Pahmar-raht could pretend to be one of these mindless beasts out of devotion to his rider or while practicing espionage. We Khajiit are quite sly, so this one wouldn't put it past us.



As for the Dagi-raht and Tojay-raht, many of Khajiit's brothers and sisters are of this furstock.Tojay and Tojay-raht is a spindly khajiit with low set ears. They tend to be playful and this one's sisters who are Tojay-raht are quite bothersome. Ja'Taba's brother who is Dagi-raht has been missing for many many moons. He was a shady sort and played rarely. He kept to the trees and the tops of buildings and was not to be trusted. This one suspects his Dagi-raht brethren may have been recruited by the Dark Brotherhood. This makes Ja'Taba sad and scared for his kin.

This one hopes Ja'Taba has helped sate some of your curiosity. May the moons always shine on your shoulders.

gidorick wrote:

(Psst... if you want to know more about the furstocks, I went through them here)
Suggestions for an eventual Khajiit-centric update

I also suggested a way for ZOS to allow us to make different Khajiit and Argonian breeds as characters: Monetization of Character Creation Concept

Absolutely perfect, bravo! It's good to see posts like this which pull all the relevant information together, especially with the amount of confusion on this particular subject. While short, I'd be tempted to call this the "definitive guide" on the matter.

nine9six

Which ones have the strongest backs?

Osteos

What breed of Khajiit is this guy? You rescue him during a quest. I want to say in Malabal Tor.





He's quite a bit larger then the senche mounts.

Gidorick

I'd guess pahmar-raht @paleobonesb14_ESO

corrosivechains

It just goes to show really just how loose the lore has always been in the series, while still being creative. Things like this just make me laugh at people who argue against an implementation into the game because "it's lore-breaking" or "lore reasons", when the differing Khajiit breeds were a clever and unique way to explain away why they looked so different in Arena and Daggerfall.

And the series has been enriched by it's adaptive lore.

Robo_Hobo

corrosivechains wrote: »

It just goes to show really just how loose the lore has always been in the series, while still being creative. Things like this just make me laugh at people who argue against an implementation into the game because "it's lore-breaking" or "lore reasons", when the differing Khajiit breeds were a clever and unique way to explain away why they looked so different in Arena and Daggerfall.

And the series has been enriched by it's adaptive lore.

Indeed, and the Dragon Break phenomenon of Daggerfall's ending, they do a good job of explaining things creatively.