Door "Gankers" on the PTS

alainjbrennanb16_ESO · July 2015

i have had loads of gankers a lot of players seem hell bent on just ganking spawn zones and getting in to spawn zones

BoloBoffin · July 2015

Perhaps spawn gankers could be recognized by the system and generate the unkillable guards after a set period? The same people keep killing the same people in the same spot. After the third go-round, it's clear that the spawners can't mount an assault, so the guards show up. After the bottleneck calms down, the guards go back on break.

Morvul · July 2015

Attorneyatlawl wrote: »

Xael wrote: »

If I wanted Trammel I would play UO.

Sorry, I disagree with the majority of people in this thread. It's a PvP zone, you should be fair game. I am against having super guards at an entrance or an immune area. This is PvP and ganking is part of the mix.

Age of Conan had this problem with a few zones in the newbie area(s) like Whitesands. What they did was eventually make a person a immune for x amount of seconds after zoning or logging into the game. The catch was they needed to stand still or they would lose the buff. I think this might be a fair work around as the ESO loading screens are wretched unforgivable things that often crash the game. PTS loading screens seem longer than live.

I overall agree, and feel like the only change that's needed is what you describe AoC having done... I didn't get the idea from there (I just thought it up in my post earlier in this thread), but sounds like it worked well ?

This is exactly what ESO needs.
incidentally, this would not only help in IC, but also with cyrodiils tower farming...
(even though the later has counters already, it's still a somewhat stupid mechanic)

Enodoc · July 2015

Thought I'd just drop in a list here of everywhere I think should have a "dead zone" or "immunity timer" against door/spawn ganking. Whatever such a thing is, I think it should have a wide enough radius or last long enough for players to get their bearings and enter stealth if they want to.

The places where the ladders from your Alliance Base come out in the Districts
The doors into/out of the crafting sites and vaults
The gates between Districts
The main ladder access into the Districts from the Sewers
The main ladder access into the Sewers from the Districts
The balcony areas between Sewer sections

Farorin · July 2015

Some people tried to door gank me a few times, but it never worked so well except for once. I don't think it is a super big issue currently, but it may end up becoming an issue as time goes on and people get better at abusing mechanics.

Djeriko · July 2015

Tonnopesceb16_ESO wrote: »

I just don't get it...

In the PTS what is the point to grief others players experience?
You farm TV stones? You cant keep them since zos can reboot to zero the server at any time.
You are a pve only "carebear" player and you want that others understand how bad IC is and you wish that this update will fail, because is not what you want?
You want other players to quit so the dlc cant be tested the right way?

I just don't get it srsly...

I actually think that this is the best way to test the devs design. Get out there and pull exploits now. When you find them in this stage they should be easy (HA!) to fix. * cough shield dyes cough* So if you find something that gives you a quick edge because the ZOS testing team doesn't have the drive to pull cheap shots like regular players then do it so other players will see it and have it reported. Easy way to get reported for pvp exploit, beat a lot of other players to a pulp!

dsalter · July 2015

Xael wrote: »

If I wanted Trammel I would play UO.

Sorry, I disagree with the majority of people in this thread. It's a PvP zone, you should be fair game. I am against having super guards at an entrance or an immune area. This is PvP and *** ganking is part of the mix.

Age of Conan had this problem with a few zones in the newbie area(s) like Whitesands. What they did was eventually make a person a immune for x amount of seconds after zoning or logging into the game. The catch was they needed to stand still or they would lose the buff. I think this might be a fair work around as the ESO loading screens are wretched unforgivable things that often crash the game. PTS loading screens seem longer than live.

since everyone can stealth, such a buff would be abused as a "oh your here, better stay still because the moment you move and remove thet buff we'll kill you" and you cant say people wont. the lowlifes of "hardcore" pvp features know no bounds. as exploiters on live have proven.

Mojmir · July 2015

Xael wrote: »

If I wanted Trammel I would play UO.

Sorry, I disagree with the majority of people in this thread. It's a PvP zone, you should be fair game. I am against having super guards at an entrance or an immune area. This is PvP and *** ganking is part of the mix.

Age of Conan had this problem with a few zones in the newbie area(s) like Whitesands. What they did was eventually make a person a immune for x amount of seconds after zoning or logging into the game. The catch was they needed to stand still or they would lose the buff. I think this might be a fair work around as the ESO loading screens are wretched unforgivable things that often crash the game. PTS loading screens seem longer than live.

and we all know how well this game turned out, trammel was created because of BS like this, you cant have both pvp and pve in the same area. its like mixing acids and bases.

Sithisvoid · July 2015

This has been an issue a long time in cyrodiil anyone who likes to farm delves there already knows. Is this going to be addressed in the rest of cyrodiil as well?

phaseadept · July 2015

So to sum it up I have to roll a night blade in order to enjoy the new content?

mtwiggz · July 2015

Robbmrp wrote: »

mtwiggz wrote: »

This is absolutely a huge issue already. Being killed during a load screen takes no skill on either end. Hope that ZoS fixes this well before IC goes live. Otherwise IC will become a giant zerg farmfest, which I'm sure it'll be anyways, but not due to load screens.

Hey @mtwiggz, did you get ganked after my wife and I took off last night? We never did make it back online to try anything else out. We are going to try out some PVP tonight, hopefully from the sounds of it there will be other factions running too so we can test the LOS changes and see if lag's still there.

Several times. After getting through the door gankers and into the City it wasn't too bad. Much easier to survive through several enemies attacking you now, but much more difficult to dwindle down their numbers. TTK needs to be readjusted before live, IMO.

But obviously load screen ganking is OP.

ZOS_BrianWheeler · July 2015

So far our testing internally with the immunity buff has been pretty good. The tester gang is still hammering on it as we know people have variable load times between districts and between the sewers to districts. If you all could post your usual load times between district to district and sewer to district, that would be appreciated so we can tune the immunity timings.

dsalter · July 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

So far our testing internally with the immunity buff has been pretty good. The tester gang is still hammering on it as we know people have variable load times between districts and between the sewers to districts. If you all could post your usual load times between district to district and sewer to district, that would be appreciated so we can tune the immunity timings.

as helpful as it will be, it wont be enough the dedicated will just camp the whole spot and cover a decent size area. we need a safe spot at the faction entrance into the city else they'll still be there just rather then standing on the spot they'll just move to following you and melting you down which solves nothing, as past suggestions have said = get invincible stealth vision guards around them, prefferably ranger ones with chain so it's to discourage you even attempting to camp spawns.

we know the idea is to make imperial city a fighting ground but not even having a chance to have a spot when you enter to prep and be ready isn't giving non-groupies much hope.

Morvul · July 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

So far our testing internally with the immunity buff has been pretty good. The tester gang is still hammering on it as we know people have variable load times between districts and between the sewers to districts. If you all could post your usual load times between district to district and sewer to district, that would be appreciated so we can tune the immunity timings.

would it be possible to design the "immunity buff" in a way that it holds a pretty long time by default (say 20-30 seconds) but dissipates the moment the player moves or uses an ability?

That way it would automatically account for varying load times...

zornyan · July 2015

I think immunity buff is a good idea? Quite simply the biggest problem with gankers is annihilating you before you can even react/)spawn.

This just means they'll have to camp further back, but it means if you and 5 of your team mates go through the door, spawn and instantly cast Shields/buffs, it'll just be a regular pvp fight. No one will have an advantage as per the Battlefield.

Zaldan · August 2015

That this is even an issue shows just how bad ESO designers are, this should never have been a problem in the first place, almost like the people designing have no knowledge of what's gone before

zornyan · August 2015

Well it's a test server, they've had feedback on the issue and are implementing a solution, not bad I wouldn't say

SeptimusDova · August 2015

This was meant to be for testing purposes. I am recording and saving a lot of it. Not for amusement. But for My niece who is in the field of criminal psychology. She finds this stuff fascinating.

SkylarkAU · August 2015

Morvul wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

So far our testing internally with the immunity buff has been pretty good. The tester gang is still hammering on it as we know people have variable load times between districts and between the sewers to districts. If you all could post your usual load times between district to district and sewer to district, that would be appreciated so we can tune the immunity timings.

would it be possible to design the "immunity buff" in a way that it holds a pretty long time by default (say 20-30 seconds) but dissipates the moment the player moves or uses an ability?

That way it would automatically account for varying load times...

If it dissipated straight away it wouldn't do much good I think, likewise if there was an arbitrary 5 second delay from first movement then it would be too predictable for gankers to ignore. I'd suggest a randomly timed debuff between 5-10 seconds after first movement but before any ability is used..

ZOS_BrianWheeler · August 2015

It will be on you after you've zoned in, and will drop if you use an ability, stealth, or drink a potion. It will not drop if you move or weapon swap.

DDuke · August 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

It will be on you after you've zoned in, and will drop if you use an ability, stealth, or drink a potion. It will not drop if you move or weapon swap.

Have you set a limit to how far you can move with the immunity?

If it lasts for 30 seconds, wouldn't this allow someone (with a fast PC) to get half way through a district without any risk?

SkylarkAU · August 2015

DDuke wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

It will be on you after you've zoned in, and will drop if you use an ability, stealth, or drink a potion. It will not drop if you move or weapon swap.

Have you set a limit to how far you can move with the immunity?

If it lasts for 30 seconds, wouldn't this allow someone (with a fast PC) to get half way through a district without any risk?

Or conversely when you get one of those occasional out-of-the-blue extra long load screens chances are you would arrive dead, which would be uber frustrating..

nun_nonrb19_ESO · August 2015

The idea of creating a buffer zone seems so much wiser to me. I know it'll give a bit of trouble to redesign the zones but it'll be a full-proof solution. So everybody wins with it......well, all except the gankers.

Kupoking · August 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

It will be on you after you've zoned in, and will drop if you use an ability, stealth, or drink a potion. It will not drop if you move or weapon swap.

Will you be able to zone back to previous district while on that buff?

Fissh · August 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Besides the large central doors between districts, there are two doors to the left and right down the walls which lead to an elevated safe location in the neighboring district. We will however look at solutions at the main doors as well.

Pro tip!

Laplace · August 2015

Denaia wrote: »

People who gank these doors should be banned from ever accessing PTS again... PTS is for testing, if we cannot test the patch will not be able to be launched properly. Have fun doing this behavior on live, but not on the pts.

I couldn't disagree more. I'm glad they aren't waiting until IC goes live to show their true colors. If we didn't catch this until the server went live, IC would be DOA.

I am a PVE player. I've never been a fan of PVP in any game. That said, I am willing to give Imperial City a chance. But the way things are going, I'm starting to reconsider. RNG grindfests? Ruining endgame crafting? Making Glass prohibitively grindy to get when you just know it's gonna end up on the Crown Store anyway?

Attorneyatlawl · August 2015

SkylarkAU wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

It will be on you after you've zoned in, and will drop if you use an ability, stealth, or drink a potion. It will not drop if you move or weapon swap.

Have you set a limit to how far you can move with the immunity?

If it lasts for 30 seconds, wouldn't this allow someone (with a fast PC) to get half way through a district without any risk?

Or conversely when you get one of those occasional out-of-the-blue extra long load screens chances are you would arrive dead, which would be uber frustrating..

Both, excellent points: my hunch is, however, that @ZOS_BrianWheeler thought of this too, and will be aiming at having it activate the timer once the game's UI is initialized, the same as most (possibly all?) buffs look to work now, and it is the last (or one of the last things) to be loaded when you zone between areas. In other words, it wouldn't start its 30-second countdown before you loaded in and could already see the game world.

SeptimusDova · August 2015

Yes UI activation will be a great place to start the timer./ As loading screens can vary depending on many factors. Except when your cat bites your DVI cable. Zos cant help you on that one.

baratron · August 2015

Kerioko wrote: »

Like I said above, I have no problem with traditional gankers, I consider it a valid playstyle, and I can build to counter that. I do think something needs done to prevent the trolls from camping doors and killing people as they zone, as there is no way to counter load screens!

Fighting other players = Fun.
Fighting the loading screen boss = Not Fun.

The loading screens seem to be slower than ever in this build of the game. My brand new computer has 2 second loading screens on Live, and never, ever generates a loading screen as I'm running around because it hasn't loaded the physics yet. On the PTS, my loading screens are long enough to go to the bathroom and back. Even outside of Cyrodiil.

I'm hoping it's just because it's the PTS and so doesn't have as many, er, resources as the Live version of the game.

Also, my fps is horrendous in Cyrodiil. My computer can handle Ultra-high graphics with 80+ fps in the main game. In Cyrodiil and the Imperial City (excluding instanced dungeons), it has to be knocked down to Medium graphics before I get more than 15 fps. I know that it's normal to have to turn your graphics down one notch in Cyrodiil, but two notches? Is that expected?

(Also, if I'm only able to play on Medium graphics with an Nvidia 980M graphics card with 8 GB of dedicated graphics RAM, who on earth gets to experience the Imperial City in Ultra-high?)

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

So far our testing internally with the immunity buff has been pretty good. The tester gang is still hammering on it as we know people have variable load times between districts and between the sewers to districts. If you all could post your usual load times between district to district and sewer to district, that would be appreciated so we can tune the immunity timings.

I'll certainly grab a stopwatch and start measuring my loading screen times

.

baratron · August 2015

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

So far our testing internally with the immunity buff has been pretty good. The tester gang is still hammering on it as we know people have variable load times between districts and between the sewers to districts. If you all could post your usual load times between district to district and sewer to district, that would be appreciated so we can tune the immunity timings.

Hey Brian.

District to district. Minimal. 3 seconds or less.

Sewers to district and vice versa? Oh gods. I sat with a stopwatch on Friday night and timed it every time I remembered.

Arena District to Sewers - 54 seconds
Sewers to Elden Gardens District - 1 minute 5 seconds. (96 fps, 167 ms latency)
Temple District to Sewers - 1 minute 3 seconds (100 fps, 222 ms latency)
Temple District to Sewers again - 1 minute 4 seconds (99 fps, 155 ms latency)

I've posted my fps and latency to show that it doesn't seem to be either graphical or network lag.

It would be really helpful if some people other than me posted their timings

.