Guild Summit?

LonePirate · September 2014

Gythral wrote: »

20 people that they can dazzle in a room and brainwash into thinking that everything is coming up roses and it is not a pre-alpha that they are foisting off on their customers!

From the sounds of it, many of the attendees were Beta testing on the weekends and on the old Private Test Server as far back as mid-2013. I don't think ZOS will be able to pull the wool over too many of their eyes.

Yes, I expect the attendees will receive a lot of smooth talk and promises. That's immaterial to me. I have set my expectations to be so low that I do not anticipate any course corrections or radical changes as a result of feedback from the attendees. I'm simply glad ZOS is giving us the pretense of being invested in player relations and concerns because that has been practically non-existent up to this point. The simple fact that the Guild Summit is occurring in a significant step in the right direction, even if ZOS takes away nothing from it.

Gidorick · October 2014

I would think a webinar series and an organized Q&A would be a more effective way to get info out to, and back from, the fans. (The reddit sessions seemed to work well)

This kind of singling out of those they feel can sway the community to pamper and dote on them in hopes that they will go out and sing nothing but praises reminds me of those "review" events some developers have for their games. Where they put reviewers up in swanky hotels and have parties and events planned. It's all propaganda meant to curry favor with the "community leaders" in hopes that they can, in-turn, rally their respective followers toward a more positive and docile community that will just take what it's given.

This is not what I wish my subscription fees to be going toward. If it were a community wide ESO-CON with panels and what-not then it would be a more reasonable use of resources but an invite-only event that is sure costing ZOS thousands of dollars to put together seems quite wasteful. Furthermore, it creates the feeling that the only voices that matter are those of the 20 that were invited and I for one question the direction of ESO if this is the sort of "community feedback" they are seeking.

I am 100% for communicating with the community but those 20 are NOT the community. They do not speak for me and I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels this way.

After all that... sounds like fun! I hope everyone has a good time and I'm really looking forward to the information that is revealed there. I hope it's a productive meeting and I hope ZOS get's what they are hoping to get out of it. Although this format might not be ideal in the eyes of the community, it is far and away more than what other dev studios would do, so good for them!!!

Voodoo · October 2014

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey everyone! Just to clear up any confusion, we have invited 20 guild representatives from all over North America and Europe. We wish we could have invited everyone, but space was limited. The purpose of the Guild Summit is to show them some of the things we're working on, discuss some concerns about current issues, and get their feedback and suggestions. This is not meant to be a secret; the entire summit is not under NDA, so everyone in attendance will be able to talk publicly about everything that was shown and discussed. In addition, we will be publishing a round-up next week on our website.

Thanks for clearing this up! We all know how the forums groupies love to spin things way out of control haha!

dcincali · October 2014

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey everyone! Just to clear up any confusion, we have invited 20 guild representatives from all over North America and Europe. We wish we could have invited everyone, but space was limited. The purpose of the Guild Summit is to show them some of the things we're working on, discuss some concerns about current issues, and get their feedback and suggestions. This is not meant to be a secret; the entire summit is not under NDA, so everyone in attendance will be able to talk publicly about everything that was shown and discussed. In addition, we will be publishing a round-up next week on our website.

Dangle the carrot for those 20 people and then let them come back to the reality that is what we have today. PVP riddled with bugs, exploiters not being removed from the game, a complete lack of communication from simple things like a loyalty pet to large glaring issues such as disconnects/lag in pvp. This is nothing more then a PR stunt for a quickly diminishing fan base and it is no ones fault but your own.

Razour · October 2014

My take on the selection process for inclusion in the event is that ZOS have looked for people who play an active and largely constructive role in these forums. This is speculation based on the small number of people who have "declared" that they are participating mixed with more direct experience of being part of the Noore which is fortunate enough to have D as guild leader.

My genuine belief is that D has the best interests of the game at heart, he has personally invested a lot of time and energy into ESO as have many of the other contributors to the feedback that he will represent at the summit. Sure, he's a dyed in the wool PvPer and GL of the Noore an AD-US guild but as a guild we've fed in concerns and proposals on a range of topics that are valid for all factions and stripe across all aspects of the game.

I welcome this initiative and, although I can understand some of the obvious frustrations amongst some elements of the community who feel that their guild/faction/interest were overlooked in the selection process, I can also understand why it has been done the way it has. My gut feel is that the members of the community who will be involved will represent the best interests of all of the playing community and I look forward to hearing how it goes and the conclusions that are reached.

This is a pivotal moment for the game - if ZOS get this right, listen and trim their sales accordingly then they might just save the game and their reputation; get this wrong and they will seal the deal on the demise of the game.

Razzak · October 2014

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey everyone! Just to clear up any confusion, we have invited 20 guild representatives from all over North America and Europe. We wish we could have invited everyone, but space was limited. The purpose of the Guild Summit is to show them some of the things we're working on, discuss some concerns about current issues, and get their feedback and suggestions. This is not meant to be a secret; the entire summit is not under NDA, so everyone in attendance will be able to talk publicly about everything that was shown and discussed. In addition, we will be publishing a round-up next week on our website.

Why not talk and/or discuss those things here?
How much info, feedback or suggestions do you think you can get from 0,0026 % of ESO players? There is no way those very few people will be able to represent large part of your playerbase. Even if they all wanted to. And even that is hard to believe.
Considering this forum, how much more info, feedback, suggestions do you need? You get everything here.

But, I have to give kudos to you. An excellent idea to use those 20 as your CS after the summit. I guess a couple of T-shirts and a chance to get drunk with few of your lower execs will buy their loyalty for some time.
Diabolically good idea. To use those 20 as a shield and/or an excuse.

Rune_Relic · October 2014

LonePirate wrote: »

Desdemonte wrote: »

I think Craglorn is the best zone in the game.

I have no doubt some people love the zone. Almost every zone has its fans and its detractors. For instance, I love Shadowfen despite its reputation as being the worst EP zone.

Given your love for Craglorn, surely you have noticed how the bulk of the content goes unplayed. Almost no one quests or clears the delves and it is exceptionally difficult to find people to group up and play the content. People love the Arena and the Trials; but that's it and those areas are a small amount of the content. Also, Trials are inaccessible for massive numbers of the population. So even though you and others love Craglorn, you surely recognize how tiny the zone's fan club is.

If ZOS ends this guild summit with the belief that the ESO community wants more zones exactly like Craglorn, then both they and the attendees have failed the community as a whole in a very important manner.

There is always going to be a problem with the likes of craglorn.
There is a massive amount of players that simply cant/wont group and prefer to solo.
Yes I understand the MMO community gasps at the heresy...but a lot of the playerbase is TES solo players that just dont feel comfortable with that.

Before you go all defensive I am not saying remove group stuff either. At the end of the day ZOS wants to get people to group and group well....which means training and participation.

The training part can be provided by the content such as craglorn. The participation part will not be overcome until you get solo players comfortable with groups or at the very least working in a group. [No pvp guild even considered this issue]

So my suggestion is. Make the hard group content. Fix the grouping tool. BUT also provide MERCENARIES that are archetype based and can be used as an alternative to grouping or as well as grouping.

Why does this help ?
1. solo players can and will now attempt group content.
2. group content can be added without walling off solo players.
3. solo players get to practice group content and become confortable.
4. solo players eventually feel comfortable joining any group and playing any role.
5 cant find enough group members [or any]?.. no problem....you can still use mercs and progress without them.

The objective at the end of the day is not to wall off content under any circumstances and get high quality group warfare going on in cyrodiil . Thats never going to happen unless people train in groups and practice their roles. We need group training/progression areas in PVE to feed PVP warfare. Same way we need 1-50 PVE progression to train people in weapon and skill use.

ie SHIFT the focus of developing your character into the PVE journey actually training your character for PVP endgame.. be it solo or anything upto 12 man groups. Change questing into questing+training.

jovial · October 2014

fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »

Desdemonte wrote: »

Not too many casuals though, else the summit would be nothing more than herding cats. Casuals are less likely to understand the scope of the game beyond their own small part of it, and may not be able to add useful input

Pretty patronising and condescending aren't you, especially the "less likely to understand" comment?

You could make the exact same statement replacing 'casuals' by 'raiders', 'PVPers' and most other sub-groupings.

Given 'casuals' .. or more accurately non-hardcore raiders .. are usually accepted to be the largest PVE sub-group their voice deserves to be the loudest .. so far ZOS have pandered nigh on exclusively to the hardcore PVEers .. Entropy Rising of course are their big friends .. and this little shindig seems to be more pandering to the small minority elites.

It's true though. Just because casuals are the largest part of the player base doesn't mean they know what's good for the game long term. In fact listening to the casual population in any game will mostly just erode the gameplay over time, until even the casuals themselves abandon it for something new and shiny.

This mostly seems like PR *** though, but whatever.

pppontus · October 2014

Rune_Relic wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

Desdemonte wrote: »

I think Craglorn is the best zone in the game.

I have no doubt some people love the zone. Almost every zone has its fans and its detractors. For instance, I love Shadowfen despite its reputation as being the worst EP zone.

Given your love for Craglorn, surely you have noticed how the bulk of the content goes unplayed. Almost no one quests or clears the delves and it is exceptionally difficult to find people to group up and play the content. People love the Arena and the Trials; but that's it and those areas are a small amount of the content. Also, Trials are inaccessible for massive numbers of the population. So even though you and others love Craglorn, you surely recognize how tiny the zone's fan club is.

If ZOS ends this guild summit with the belief that the ESO community wants more zones exactly like Craglorn, then both they and the attendees have failed the community as a whole in a very important manner.

There is always going to be a problem with the likes of craglorn.
There is a massive amount of players that simply cant/wont group and prefer to solo.
Yes I understand the MMO community gasps at the heresy...but a lot of the playerbase is TES solo players that just dont feel comfortable with that.

Before you go all defensive I am not saying remove group stuff either. At the end of the day ZOS wants to get people to group and group well....which means training and participation.

The training part can be provided by the content such as craglorn. The participation part will not be overcome until you get solo players comfortable with groups or at the very least working in a group. [No pvp guild even considered this issue]

So my suggestion is. Make the hard group content. Fix the grouping tool. BUT also provide MERCENARIES that are archetype based and can be used as an alternative to grouping or as well as grouping.

Why does this help ?
1. solo players can and will now attempt group content.
2. group content can be added without walling off solo players.
3. solo players get to practice group content and become confortable.
4. solo players eventually feel comfortable joining any group and playing any role.
5 cant find enough group members [or any]?.. no problem....you can still use mercs and progress without them.

The objective at the end of the day is not to wall off content under any circumstances and get high quality group warfare going on in cyrodiil . Thats never going to happen unless people train in groups and practice their roles. We need group training/progression areas in PVE to feed PVP warfare. Same way we need 1-50 PVE progression to train people in weapon and skill use.

ie SHIFT the focus of developing your character into the PVE journey actually training your character for PVP endgame.. be it solo or anything upto 12 man groups. Change questing into questing+training.

IMO the players trying to play TESO as one of the single player games will get bored either way, and will not be the ones who are still here in a year or two. It's an MMO, if anything they should focus on making the grouping more available to those who "simply refuse to group". Players are going to have to step up to that challenge if they want to experience content that has the longevity that's essential to an MMO. Otherwise they will have to spend 3 months designing solo content that will keep solo players engaged for about 3-4 days, and in the end that just isn't feasible. I love the ES games but this is not that, this is at it's core an MMO and needs to focus on that type of content if it wants to survive.

Rune_Relic · October 2014

pppontus wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

Desdemonte wrote: »

I think Craglorn is the best zone in the game.

I have no doubt some people love the zone. Almost every zone has its fans and its detractors. For instance, I love Shadowfen despite its reputation as being the worst EP zone.

Given your love for Craglorn, surely you have noticed how the bulk of the content goes unplayed. Almost no one quests or clears the delves and it is exceptionally difficult to find people to group up and play the content. People love the Arena and the Trials; but that's it and those areas are a small amount of the content. Also, Trials are inaccessible for massive numbers of the population. So even though you and others love Craglorn, you surely recognize how tiny the zone's fan club is.

If ZOS ends this guild summit with the belief that the ESO community wants more zones exactly like Craglorn, then both they and the attendees have failed the community as a whole in a very important manner.

There is always going to be a problem with the likes of craglorn.
There is a massive amount of players that simply cant/wont group and prefer to solo.
Yes I understand the MMO community gasps at the heresy...but a lot of the playerbase is TES solo players that just dont feel comfortable with that.

Before you go all defensive I am not saying remove group stuff either. At the end of the day ZOS wants to get people to group and group well....which means training and participation.

The training part can be provided by the content such as craglorn. The participation part will not be overcome until you get solo players comfortable with groups or at the very least working in a group. [No pvp guild even considered this issue]

So my suggestion is. Make the hard group content. Fix the grouping tool. BUT also provide MERCENARIES that are archetype based and can be used as an alternative to grouping or as well as grouping.

Why does this help ?
1. solo players can and will now attempt group content.
2. group content can be added without walling off solo players.
3. solo players get to practice group content and become confortable.
4. solo players eventually feel comfortable joining any group and playing any role.
5 cant find enough group members [or any]?.. no problem....you can still use mercs and progress without them.

The objective at the end of the day is not to wall off content under any circumstances and get high quality group warfare going on in cyrodiil . Thats never going to happen unless people train in groups and practice their roles. We need group training/progression areas in PVE to feed PVP warfare. Same way we need 1-50 PVE progression to train people in weapon and skill use.

ie SHIFT the focus of developing your character into the PVE journey actually training your character for PVP endgame.. be it solo or anything upto 12 man groups. Change questing into questing+training.

IMO the players trying to play TESO as one of the single player games will get bored either way, and will not be the ones who are still here in a year or two. It's an MMO, if anything they should focus on making the grouping more available to those who "simply refuse to group". Players are going to have to step up to that challenge if they want to experience content that has the longevity that's essential to an MMO. Otherwise they will have to spend 3 months designing solo content that will keep solo players engaged for about 3-4 days, and in the end that just isn't feasible. I love the ES games but this is not that, this is at it's core an MMO and needs to focus on that type of content if it wants to survive.

Way to go. So instead of trying to get solo players into the grouping habit....your idea is just to dump 50% or more of the playerbase along with the subscription on a "hunch" they might not stick around.

Perhaps they might not stick around because they are ignored ? This is a TES game....you alienate your loyal customers...you might as well just stick a gun to the side of your head and pull the trigger.

Anyway, this is exactly as stated above. How can any MMO guilds have any concept of what the single player TES people want ? They have no concept. They seem them as an annoyance that should be ignored instead of included.

pppontus · October 2014

Rune_Relic wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

Desdemonte wrote: »

I think Craglorn is the best zone in the game.

I have no doubt some people love the zone. Almost every zone has its fans and its detractors. For instance, I love Shadowfen despite its reputation as being the worst EP zone.

Given your love for Craglorn, surely you have noticed how the bulk of the content goes unplayed. Almost no one quests or clears the delves and it is exceptionally difficult to find people to group up and play the content. People love the Arena and the Trials; but that's it and those areas are a small amount of the content. Also, Trials are inaccessible for massive numbers of the population. So even though you and others love Craglorn, you surely recognize how tiny the zone's fan club is.

If ZOS ends this guild summit with the belief that the ESO community wants more zones exactly like Craglorn, then both they and the attendees have failed the community as a whole in a very important manner.

There is always going to be a problem with the likes of craglorn.
There is a massive amount of players that simply cant/wont group and prefer to solo.
Yes I understand the MMO community gasps at the heresy...but a lot of the playerbase is TES solo players that just dont feel comfortable with that.

Before you go all defensive I am not saying remove group stuff either. At the end of the day ZOS wants to get people to group and group well....which means training and participation.

The training part can be provided by the content such as craglorn. The participation part will not be overcome until you get solo players comfortable with groups or at the very least working in a group. [No pvp guild even considered this issue]

So my suggestion is. Make the hard group content. Fix the grouping tool. BUT also provide MERCENARIES that are archetype based and can be used as an alternative to grouping or as well as grouping.

Why does this help ?
1. solo players can and will now attempt group content.
2. group content can be added without walling off solo players.
3. solo players get to practice group content and become confortable.
4. solo players eventually feel comfortable joining any group and playing any role.
5 cant find enough group members [or any]?.. no problem....you can still use mercs and progress without them.

The objective at the end of the day is not to wall off content under any circumstances and get high quality group warfare going on in cyrodiil . Thats never going to happen unless people train in groups and practice their roles. We need group training/progression areas in PVE to feed PVP warfare. Same way we need 1-50 PVE progression to train people in weapon and skill use.

ie SHIFT the focus of developing your character into the PVE journey actually training your character for PVP endgame.. be it solo or anything upto 12 man groups. Change questing into questing+training.

IMO the players trying to play TESO as one of the single player games will get bored either way, and will not be the ones who are still here in a year or two. It's an MMO, if anything they should focus on making the grouping more available to those who "simply refuse to group". Players are going to have to step up to that challenge if they want to experience content that has the longevity that's essential to an MMO. Otherwise they will have to spend 3 months designing solo content that will keep solo players engaged for about 3-4 days, and in the end that just isn't feasible. I love the ES games but this is not that, this is at it's core an MMO and needs to focus on that type of content if it wants to survive.

Way to go. So instead of trying to get solo players into the grouping habit....your idea is just to dump 50% or more of the playerbase along with the subscription on a "hunch" they might not stick around.

Perhaps they might not stick around because they are ignored ? This is a TES game....you alienate your loyal customers...you might as well just stick a gun to the side of your head and pull the trigger.

Anyway, this is exactly as stated above. How can any MMO guilds have any concept of what the single player TES people want ? They have no concept. They seem them as an annoyance that should be ignored instead of included.

I hope you can back up your claim of 50% solo players, because I sure don't see many. I can also claim that 100% are MMO players, after all they are playing an MMO.

In all seriousness, as I said before there is no chance that they can keep putting out solo content at a decent rate while still making money. Group content is easier, look at Arena for example, that will keep players busy for such a long time and yet it's only one "piece of content".

Give solo players a couple of quests and delves, and 10 minutes later it's all done. If they would have kept VR content the way it was, insanely challenging, maybe they could have gotten away with catering to solo players there.. but honestly, no one wanted it. Especially not the solo players.

I say they phone Bethesda and get them to announce TES6, and point players refusing to group in that direction because I honestly don't think that it's possible to cater to a solo crowd in an MMO. Of course we should give all incentives to join guilds, groups, whatever. There are tons of them who would be happy to have you, I suggest you join them if you want to take on the endgame content and group content.

SP games are in a completely different universe compared to MMOs, it's just not possible to give you the kind of freedom etc. you can get in SP games, thus making it so extremely hard to create long and valuable content for single player gamers in one.

Sure, I know a few who play mostly solo but they just walk around enjoying the leveling process, chat a bit in guilds and with people, and then restart the leveling process on an alt. That seems to be the story for most solo players I've met and have in my guild, it's fine by me, I don't care - as long as people enjoy themselves right? The only point I have is that I think you'll be sorely dissappointed because I can see no way that catering to solo players (more than is already done) could possibly be profitable (in comparing their revenue per time spent doing the content to the cost of developing the content).

As I said in the beginning, just my opinion though. Feel free to disagree.

R1ckyDaMan · October 2014

Everyone knows that zos collects all feedback from 2 places:

Large "pro" MMO guilds and Reddit.

SantieClaws · October 2014

I think sometimes some people do "solo" players a dis-service by assuming that what they want is a single player game. I like being in MMOs. I like having other people around in the world. I like seeing them in the banks and the taverns. They are basically a more interesting form of NPC that sometimes runs around in their underpants and sometimes helps me kill things if we are both in the same place at the same time. I like trading with them, watching them dance and seeing them do random things like playing the lute in the middle of a desert.

That doesn't mean I want to group up and quest with other people all the time. Often I can only pop in game for 30 mins or an hour, depending on other things going on.

So "solo player" and "player of single person games" is not always the same thing. We are all in this MMO because we want to be in an MMO. We just all want different amounts of play as part of a formal group.

Phinix1 · October 2014

gideon_nine_ESO wrote: »

I would think a webinar series and an organized Q&A would be a more effective way to get info out to, and back from, the fans. (The reddit sessions seemed to work well)

This kind of singling out of those they feel can sway the community to pamper and dote on them in hopes that they will go out and sing nothing but praises reminds me of those "review" events some developers have for their games. Where they put reviewers up in swanky hotels and have parties and events planned. It's all propaganda meant to curry favor with the "community leaders" in hopes that they can, in-turn, rally their respective followers toward a more positive and docile community that will just take what it's given.

This is not what I wish my subscription fees to be going toward. If it were a community wide ESO-CON with panels and what-not then it would be a more reasonable use of resources but an invite-only event that is sure costing ZOS thousands of dollars to put together seems quite wasteful. Furthermore, it creates the feeling that the only voices that matter are those of the 20 that were invited and I for one question the direction of ESO if this is the sort of "community feedback" they are seeking.

I am 100% for communicating with the community but those 20 are NOT the community. They do not speak for me and I'm sure I'm not the only one that feels this way.

After all that... sounds like fun! I hope everyone has a good time and I'm really looking forward to the information that is revealed there. I hope it's a productive meeting and I hope ZOS get's what they are hoping to get out of it. Although this format might not be ideal in the eyes of the community, it is far and away more than what other dev studios would do, so good for them!!!

Well said. You echo the sentiment I myself expressed earlier when this was first announced (which was after the candidates had all been selected.)

I'm sure I haven't been the most helpful or constructive on the forums or with feedback, but I have been active. I provide a pre-configured UI for people to use, I suggested the distribution of guild kiosks which they later implemented (though I had also mentioned factions and supply/trade missions to go along with them, and rep towards unique cultural gear), I've suggested fixes for stamina balance issues for months (stamina-based class morphs and many other threads with alternate ideas), PVE content, PVP balancing, and I too played since beta and early access.

I've always tried to keep my comments constructive. True, people may not always agree with my opinions, and I can get frustrated with repeated failure just as much as anyone, but I never belittled anyone for their beliefs unless they were downright crude and disrespectful, in which case I probably just reported them for trolling.

The point is, I'm not really sure what these few that were selected bring to the table that others wouldn't be able to weigh in on just as well and possibly with their own creative approach to solutions, other than as you have pointed out, they represent the large guilds that ZOS wishes to ingratiate themselves with, pretty much for the reasons you have stated.

I feel I have as much to contribute to any constructive conversation about the future of ESO as anyone. I'm an idea person, and I've played MMO's for over a decade, along with playing and modding for all TES titles since Morrowind. I can confirm that making the size of the guild you represent the main criteria only serves to further alienate an otherwise helpful and constructive community.

Also, I am curious how many of these invitees are from the addon community that has helped carry the game since launch?

If a woman I was dating made the size of my... bank account... the only criteria for my value as a partner or a human being, I promise, that relationship would be over in a heartbeat.

Mendoze · October 2014

I like the idea of guild summit, but like some others I too have my doubts. For the cost of this summit, I would have hired couple community managers so that our problems get answered in timely fashion. There's been several threads with 10+ pages and zero comments from ZOS about the problem. When they finally wake up, it's usually like 2 weeks later. Anyways, guild summit is still better than nothing.

Rune_Relic · October 2014

pppontus wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

Desdemonte wrote: »

I think Craglorn is the best zone in the game.

I have no doubt some people love the zone. Almost every zone has its fans and its detractors. For instance, I love Shadowfen despite its reputation as being the worst EP zone.

Given your love for Craglorn, surely you have noticed how the bulk of the content goes unplayed. Almost no one quests or clears the delves and it is exceptionally difficult to find people to group up and play the content. People love the Arena and the Trials; but that's it and those areas are a small amount of the content. Also, Trials are inaccessible for massive numbers of the population. So even though you and others love Craglorn, you surely recognize how tiny the zone's fan club is.

If ZOS ends this guild summit with the belief that the ESO community wants more zones exactly like Craglorn, then both they and the attendees have failed the community as a whole in a very important manner.

There is always going to be a problem with the likes of craglorn.
There is a massive amount of players that simply cant/wont group and prefer to solo.
Yes I understand the MMO community gasps at the heresy...but a lot of the playerbase is TES solo players that just dont feel comfortable with that.

Before you go all defensive I am not saying remove group stuff either. At the end of the day ZOS wants to get people to group and group well....which means training and participation.

The training part can be provided by the content such as craglorn. The participation part will not be overcome until you get solo players comfortable with groups or at the very least working in a group. [No pvp guild even considered this issue]

So my suggestion is. Make the hard group content. Fix the grouping tool. BUT also provide MERCENARIES that are archetype based and can be used as an alternative to grouping or as well as grouping.

Why does this help ?
1. solo players can and will now attempt group content.
2. group content can be added without walling off solo players.
3. solo players get to practice group content and become confortable.
4. solo players eventually feel comfortable joining any group and playing any role.
5 cant find enough group members [or any]?.. no problem....you can still use mercs and progress without them.

The objective at the end of the day is not to wall off content under any circumstances and get high quality group warfare going on in cyrodiil . Thats never going to happen unless people train in groups and practice their roles. We need group training/progression areas in PVE to feed PVP warfare. Same way we need 1-50 PVE progression to train people in weapon and skill use.

ie SHIFT the focus of developing your character into the PVE journey actually training your character for PVP endgame.. be it solo or anything upto 12 man groups. Change questing into questing+training.

IMO the players trying to play TESO as one of the single player games will get bored either way, and will not be the ones who are still here in a year or two. It's an MMO, if anything they should focus on making the grouping more available to those who "simply refuse to group". Players are going to have to step up to that challenge if they want to experience content that has the longevity that's essential to an MMO. Otherwise they will have to spend 3 months designing solo content that will keep solo players engaged for about 3-4 days, and in the end that just isn't feasible. I love the ES games but this is not that, this is at it's core an MMO and needs to focus on that type of content if it wants to survive.

Way to go. So instead of trying to get solo players into the grouping habit....your idea is just to dump 50% or more of the playerbase along with the subscription on a "hunch" they might not stick around.

Perhaps they might not stick around because they are ignored ? This is a TES game....you alienate your loyal customers...you might as well just stick a gun to the side of your head and pull the trigger.

Anyway, this is exactly as stated above. How can any MMO guilds have any concept of what the single player TES people want ? They have no concept. They seem them as an annoyance that should be ignored instead of included.

I hope you can back up your claim of 50% solo players, because I sure don't see many. I can also claim that 100% are MMO players, after all they are playing an MMO.

In all seriousness, as I said before there is no chance that they can keep putting out solo content at a decent rate while still making money. Group content is easier, look at Arena for example, that will keep players busy for such a long time and yet it's only one "piece of content".

Give solo players a couple of quests and delves, and 10 minutes later it's all done. If they would have kept VR content the way it was, insanely challenging, maybe they could have gotten away with catering to solo players there.. but honestly, no one wanted it. Especially not the solo players.

I say they phone Bethesda and get them to announce TES6, and point players refusing to group in that direction because I honestly don't think that it's possible to cater to a solo crowd in an MMO. Of course we should give all incentives to join guilds, groups, whatever. There are tons of them who would be happy to have you, I suggest you join them if you want to take on the endgame content and group content.

SP games are in a completely different universe compared to MMOs, it's just not possible to give you the kind of freedom etc. you can get in SP games, thus making it so extremely hard to create long and valuable content for single player gamers in one.

Sure, I know a few who play mostly solo but they just walk around enjoying the leveling process, chat a bit in guilds and with people, and then restart the leveling process on an alt. That seems to be the story for most solo players I've met and have in my guild, it's fine by me, I don't care - as long as people enjoy themselves right? The only point I have is that I think you'll be sorely dissappointed because I can see no way that catering to solo players (more than is already done) could possibly be profitable (in comparing their revenue per time spent doing the content to the cost of developing the content).

As I said in the beginning, just my opinion though. Feel free to disagree.

I think you are missing my point.
If you dont give the TES community a way to ease in to group play....you are always going to have this solo vs group content argument.

If you have mercenaries + group content everyone wins.
ZOS can stick to group content that get s harder and harder.
Inexperienced players can learn to group and access that content.

Its not about alienation....its about inclusion and make the community gel and head i the same direction instead of different direction pulling itself apart.

You are on the MMO side and feel entiteld.
Many are on the TES online side and feel entitled.
Neither of you want to be ignored or blocked.

And at the end of the day those that want to group in craglorn cant get a group together to do it anyway = MERCENARIES.

Pmarsico9 · October 2014

Stratti wrote: »

Fair point.

I think it is somewhere where they will all slap each other on the back .
Drink the Cool-Aid
And come to tell us how awesome everything is.

This is the problem with not communicating with the entire community and hand picking a few people.

Pmarsico9 · October 2014

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey everyone! Just to clear up any confusion, we have invited 20 guild representatives from all over North America and Europe. We wish we could have invited everyone, but space was limited. The purpose of the Guild Summit is to show them some of the things we're working on, discuss some concerns about current issues, and get their feedback and suggestions. This is not meant to be a secret; the entire summit is not under NDA, so everyone in attendance will be able to talk publicly about everything that was shown and discussed. In addition, we will be publishing a round-up next week on our website.

This is a dumb way to do this when you have an entire forums system here that enables bi-directional feedback. The 20 guilds cannot represent the multiple types of players that enjoy ESO and limits feedback.

Rosveen · October 2014

wenxue2222b16_ESO wrote: »

I think sometimes some people do "solo" players a dis-service by assuming that what they want is a single player game. I like being in MMOs. I like having other people around in the world. I like seeing them in the banks and the taverns. They are basically a more interesting form of NPC that sometimes runs around in their underpants and sometimes helps me kill things if we are both in the same place at the same time. I like trading with them, watching them dance and seeing them do random things like playing the lute in the middle of a desert.

That doesn't mean I want to group up and quest with other people all the time. Often I can only pop in game for 30 mins or an hour, depending on other things going on.

So "solo player" and "player of single person games" is not always the same thing. We are all in this MMO because we want to be in an MMO. We just all want different amounts of play as part of a formal group.

Signed with both hands.

As for Craglorn, remember that despite being a group-only zone, it isn't truly group-friendly. Lack of a proper quest sharing system is Craglorn's undoing. Even if you find a group, you all need to be on the exact same step of the quest - and we know how many problems this results in. If ZOS wants to encourage new players to try their hand at group content, they need to find a way to allow us to repeat quests with friends and guildmates and join quests in progress.

pppontus · October 2014

Rune_Relic wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

pppontus wrote: »

Rune_Relic wrote: »

LonePirate wrote: »

Desdemonte wrote: »

I think Craglorn is the best zone in the game.

I have no doubt some people love the zone. Almost every zone has its fans and its detractors. For instance, I love Shadowfen despite its reputation as being the worst EP zone.

Given your love for Craglorn, surely you have noticed how the bulk of the content goes unplayed. Almost no one quests or clears the delves and it is exceptionally difficult to find people to group up and play the content. People love the Arena and the Trials; but that's it and those areas are a small amount of the content. Also, Trials are inaccessible for massive numbers of the population. So even though you and others love Craglorn, you surely recognize how tiny the zone's fan club is.

If ZOS ends this guild summit with the belief that the ESO community wants more zones exactly like Craglorn, then both they and the attendees have failed the community as a whole in a very important manner.

There is always going to be a problem with the likes of craglorn.
There is a massive amount of players that simply cant/wont group and prefer to solo.
Yes I understand the MMO community gasps at the heresy...but a lot of the playerbase is TES solo players that just dont feel comfortable with that.

Before you go all defensive I am not saying remove group stuff either. At the end of the day ZOS wants to get people to group and group well....which means training and participation.

The training part can be provided by the content such as craglorn. The participation part will not be overcome until you get solo players comfortable with groups or at the very least working in a group. [No pvp guild even considered this issue]

So my suggestion is. Make the hard group content. Fix the grouping tool. BUT also provide MERCENARIES that are archetype based and can be used as an alternative to grouping or as well as grouping.

Why does this help ?
1. solo players can and will now attempt group content.
2. group content can be added without walling off solo players.
3. solo players get to practice group content and become confortable.
4. solo players eventually feel comfortable joining any group and playing any role.
5 cant find enough group members [or any]?.. no problem....you can still use mercs and progress without them.

The objective at the end of the day is not to wall off content under any circumstances and get high quality group warfare going on in cyrodiil . Thats never going to happen unless people train in groups and practice their roles. We need group training/progression areas in PVE to feed PVP warfare. Same way we need 1-50 PVE progression to train people in weapon and skill use.

ie SHIFT the focus of developing your character into the PVE journey actually training your character for PVP endgame.. be it solo or anything upto 12 man groups. Change questing into questing+training.

IMO the players trying to play TESO as one of the single player games will get bored either way, and will not be the ones who are still here in a year or two. It's an MMO, if anything they should focus on making the grouping more available to those who "simply refuse to group". Players are going to have to step up to that challenge if they want to experience content that has the longevity that's essential to an MMO. Otherwise they will have to spend 3 months designing solo content that will keep solo players engaged for about 3-4 days, and in the end that just isn't feasible. I love the ES games but this is not that, this is at it's core an MMO and needs to focus on that type of content if it wants to survive.

Way to go. So instead of trying to get solo players into the grouping habit....your idea is just to dump 50% or more of the playerbase along with the subscription on a "hunch" they might not stick around.

Perhaps they might not stick around because they are ignored ? This is a TES game....you alienate your loyal customers...you might as well just stick a gun to the side of your head and pull the trigger.

Anyway, this is exactly as stated above. How can any MMO guilds have any concept of what the single player TES people want ? They have no concept. They seem them as an annoyance that should be ignored instead of included.

I hope you can back up your claim of 50% solo players, because I sure don't see many. I can also claim that 100% are MMO players, after all they are playing an MMO.

In all seriousness, as I said before there is no chance that they can keep putting out solo content at a decent rate while still making money. Group content is easier, look at Arena for example, that will keep players busy for such a long time and yet it's only one "piece of content".

Give solo players a couple of quests and delves, and 10 minutes later it's all done. If they would have kept VR content the way it was, insanely challenging, maybe they could have gotten away with catering to solo players there.. but honestly, no one wanted it. Especially not the solo players.

I say they phone Bethesda and get them to announce TES6, and point players refusing to group in that direction because I honestly don't think that it's possible to cater to a solo crowd in an MMO. Of course we should give all incentives to join guilds, groups, whatever. There are tons of them who would be happy to have you, I suggest you join them if you want to take on the endgame content and group content.

SP games are in a completely different universe compared to MMOs, it's just not possible to give you the kind of freedom etc. you can get in SP games, thus making it so extremely hard to create long and valuable content for single player gamers in one.

Sure, I know a few who play mostly solo but they just walk around enjoying the leveling process, chat a bit in guilds and with people, and then restart the leveling process on an alt. That seems to be the story for most solo players I've met and have in my guild, it's fine by me, I don't care - as long as people enjoy themselves right? The only point I have is that I think you'll be sorely dissappointed because I can see no way that catering to solo players (more than is already done) could possibly be profitable (in comparing their revenue per time spent doing the content to the cost of developing the content).

As I said in the beginning, just my opinion though. Feel free to disagree.

I think you are missing my point.
If you dont give the TES community a way to ease in to group play....you are always going to have this solo vs group content argument.

If you have mercenaries + group content everyone wins.
ZOS can stick to group content that get s harder and harder.
Inexperienced players can learn to group and access that content.

Its not about alienation....its about inclusion and make the community gel and head i the same direction instead of different direction pulling itself apart.

You are on the MMO side and feel entiteld.
Many are on the TES online side and feel entitled.
Neither of you want to be ignored or blocked.

And at the end of the day those that want to group in craglorn cant get a group together to do it anyway = MERCENARIES.

Then I guess at the end of the day we actually agree. I tried to say just that, any way of encouraging or helping people group up is excellent. I'm always welcoming solo:ers to my guild for example and many of them after some time do end up in TS regularly and are (now) always up for VR dungeons or whatever it might be. I also don't think anyone should be alienated, I don't know whether I agree with mercenaries but yeah, some sort of effort focused on how better to get people together is really important. We all know the LFG tool is trash for example, and so does ZOS, hopefully we'll see more from that since I think that could be widely expanded and provide a good way of grouping for any sort of activity. I mean there are some other pure benefits of grouping (xp/h from duoing for example) and I think that can be taken further as well, to make it worthwhile to get to know other people in the community - once you have those connections it's so much easier to tackle group questing etc. because it's exponentially more fun too ^^

DDuke · October 2014

Rosveen wrote: »

wenxue2222b16_ESO wrote: »

I think sometimes some people do "solo" players a dis-service by assuming that what they want is a single player game. I like being in MMOs. I like having other people around in the world. I like seeing them in the banks and the taverns. They are basically a more interesting form of NPC that sometimes runs around in their underpants and sometimes helps me kill things if we are both in the same place at the same time. I like trading with them, watching them dance and seeing them do random things like playing the lute in the middle of a desert.

That doesn't mean I want to group up and quest with other people all the time. Often I can only pop in game for 30 mins or an hour, depending on other things going on.

So "solo player" and "player of single person games" is not always the same thing. We are all in this MMO because we want to be in an MMO. We just all want different amounts of play as part of a formal group.

Signed with both hands.

As for Craglorn, remember that despite being a group-only zone, it isn't truly group-friendly. Lack of a proper quest sharing system is Craglorn's undoing. Even if you find a group, you all need to be on the exact same step of the quest - and we know how many problems this results in. If ZOS wants to encourage new players to try their hand at group content, they need to find a way to allow us to repeat quests with friends and guildmates and join quests in progress.

They actually fixed this part. As of patch 1.4, you can accompany & help out your party members no matter which part of the quest you or they are on. (Atleast in Craglorn).

rophez_ESO · October 2014

My only concern is that they are inviting only large guild leaders. Guilds like the losers that are locking Chillrend down as a buff server for DC. Guilds that they built timed (dps races) trials for in attempt to appease.

Those types of players are the reason many of us are considering leaving and have left in droves. I hope they don't get more "ideas" from guilds like that.

Rosveen · October 2014

DDuke wrote: »

Rosveen wrote: »

wenxue2222b16_ESO wrote: »

I think sometimes some people do "solo" players a dis-service by assuming that what they want is a single player game. I like being in MMOs. I like having other people around in the world. I like seeing them in the banks and the taverns. They are basically a more interesting form of NPC that sometimes runs around in their underpants and sometimes helps me kill things if we are both in the same place at the same time. I like trading with them, watching them dance and seeing them do random things like playing the lute in the middle of a desert.

That doesn't mean I want to group up and quest with other people all the time. Often I can only pop in game for 30 mins or an hour, depending on other things going on.

So "solo player" and "player of single person games" is not always the same thing. We are all in this MMO because we want to be in an MMO. We just all want different amounts of play as part of a formal group.

Signed with both hands.

As for Craglorn, remember that despite being a group-only zone, it isn't truly group-friendly. Lack of a proper quest sharing system is Craglorn's undoing. Even if you find a group, you all need to be on the exact same step of the quest - and we know how many problems this results in. If ZOS wants to encourage new players to try their hand at group content, they need to find a way to allow us to repeat quests with friends and guildmates and join quests in progress.

They actually fixed this part. As of patch 1.4, you can accompany & help out your party members no matter which part of the quest you or they are on. (Atleast in Craglorn).

That's great.

Ignore my comment then. I didn't pay attention to details of 1.4 because I was away for a while, so I wasn't playing anyway. Does it actually fix the problem or are there still some leftover grouping issues in Craglorn? Not that would ever dare doubt the patch notes, oh no.

Slurg · October 2014

Is it correct that it's mostly leaders of large PVP guilds that have been invited to this? If that's the case perhaps the main focus of the summit is on overhauling PVP since everyone seems to agree it's currently in a sorry state.

I hope so at least. I'd hate to think they're relying only on hardcore PVP-ers to give them direction on everything at the exclusion of other types of players.

LonePirate · October 2014

Slurg wrote: »

Is it correct that it's mostly leaders of large PVP guilds that have been invited to this? If that's the case perhaps the main focus of the summit is on overhauling PVP since everyone seems to agree it's currently in a sorry state.

I hope so at least. I'd hate to think they're relying only on hardcore PVP-ers to give them direction on everything at the exclusion of other types of players.

Most, perhaps even all, of the attendees are guild leaders, with many of them heavily involved with the Beta testing well in advance of the game's release.

You can find a list of panels/topics/events here:

http://tamrielfoundry.com/2014/10/eso-guild-summit/

NukeAllTheThings · October 2014

PVeverything guilds are represented in that 20

ZOS_JessicaFolsom · October 2014

Cuyler wrote: »

I think a lot of the guildies here want to know the criteria for your selection process. Only having 20 openings would mean that you've got to be picking only the best of the best...so maybe give us some info on what we should be striving too so as to be considered in the future?

Edit: If it's not supposed to be secret, why is it shrouded in so much mystery? I play everyday and on the forums everyday. I have not seen a promotion, a list a winners, or anything but a single post via one of the winners after they had already been choosen.

If not meant to be a secret, ZOS sure fooled me 8(

Rest assured, we selected guild representatives carefully to ensure a wide range of player interests would be represented. We want to say again that this summit isn’t just to get the thoughts and opinions of the individuals attending and the guilds they’re representing (though we are certainly looking forward to our discussions and hearing their feedback). It is also about community building and showcasing some of our upcoming content to let players (including folks who will read the round-up) know about some of the great stuff we have coming.

This summit is not meant to be shrouded in mystery. On the contrary, we’re excited to have the folks in attendance share as much as they can with you all! We’re encouraging attendees to come back to you all with their thoughts and findings, and the round-up next week will cover much of what we discussed. Additionally, after reading your feedback in this and several other threads, we would like to give you a quick glimpse of topics we’ll be showcasing and discussing during the summit:

Crafting
Grouping/Phasing
PvP
Combat Responsiveness
Champion System
Justice System

ZOS_JessicaFolsom · October 2014

LariahHunding wrote: »

Probably the same 20 people they have been listening to since beta.

See how that's worked out.

I absolutely despise Craglorn. I am close to leaving this game because of the lack of anything to do unless I can get 4 decent players together for a group.

Please know that holding this summit does not mean that we value some individuals’ opinions over others, or that some players hold more sway with us than others. Both the Community and Social teams continue to diligently monitor the forums and fan communities for your feedback and report it to our developers. In fact, we have a number of reports we put together every week to highlight the feedback that is posted here, specifically.

Pmarsico9 · October 2014

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Cuyler wrote: »

I think a lot of the guildies here want to know the criteria for your selection process. Only having 20 openings would mean that you've got to be picking only the best of the best...so maybe give us some info on what we should be striving too so as to be considered in the future?

Edit: If it's not supposed to be secret, why is it shrouded in so much mystery? I play everyday and on the forums everyday. I have not seen a promotion, a list a winners, or anything but a single post via one of the winners after they had already been choosen.

If not meant to be a secret, ZOS sure fooled me 8(

Rest assured, we selected guild representatives carefully to ensure a wide range of player interests would be represented. We want to say again that this summit isn’t just to get the thoughts and opinions of the individuals attending and the guilds they’re representing (though we are certainly looking forward to our discussions and hearing their feedback). It is also about community building and showcasing some of our upcoming content to let players (including folks who will read the round-up) know about some of the great stuff we have coming.

This summit is not meant to be shrouded in mystery. On the contrary, we’re excited to have the folks in attendance share as much as they can with you all! We’re encouraging attendees to come back to you all with their thoughts and findings, and the round-up next week will cover much of what we discussed. Additionally, after reading your feedback in this and several other threads, we would like to give you a quick glimpse of topics we’ll be showcasing and discussing during the summit:
Crafting

Grouping/Phasing

PvP

Combat Responsiveness

Champion System

Justice System

Anything about Class and Skill Line balancing?

ZOS_JessicaFolsom · October 2014

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

Anything about Class and Skill Line balancing?

Yes, there will be discussions about that as well, and we'll be happy to provide notes to everyone regarding what was discussed and any new info that comes out of the summit.