Am I the only one who thinks Werewolf form should be a toggle?

Or is that a bad idea? I'm really just talking out of my @$$ here, because I have yet to roll my Hircine-worshipping Bosmer yet.

Thoughts?

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks Werewolf form should be a toggle?

Or is that a bad idea? I'm really just talking out of my @$$ here, because I have yet to roll my Hircine-worshipping Bosmer yet.

Thoughts?

Well, I honestly feel significantly less powerful in WW form than in normal form, so if they don't make other changes to WW I don't really see how it would be unbalancing to make it a toggle instead of an ultimate. Right now I only transform into a WW when I see a group of easy trash mobs. If it looks like a fight will be tough there's no way I'll transform.

When are werewolves going to be fixed?

Probably about the same time they fix player housing, bank space and implement an actually useful Global AH system !

Carnagan wrote: »

Obscure wrote: »

ZOS doesn't care. End of line.

You ever mess something up at work, acknowledge you messed up, then never fix it? In that circumstance there's a four letter F word that your boss might throw at you... and yet another four letter F word the customers it effects might throw at you as well.

Except they've already said that they are planning some adjustments and are going to add some passives.

A link to some kind of reference here would be helpful. Yes, there are many threads on the subject which can be found through search, but finding staff posts specifically is just not something doable. This is something else they've "said they are going to fix." lol

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO wrote: »

Am I the only one who thinks Werewolf form should be a toggle?

Or is that a bad idea? I'm really just talking out of my @$$ here, because I have yet to roll my Hircine-worshipping Bosmer yet.

Thoughts?

It should be. It's not like you are invincible in WW form anyway.

sfradenb14_ESO wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

sfradenb14_ESO wrote: »

ers101284b14_ESO wrote: »

They won't answer until you quit asking. It's like when a child constantly begs for something over and over you start ignoring them or punish them.

Wow, I certainly hope you never become a parent.....

Honestly me too.

Lets put it this way if someone starts spamming chat over and over you get annoyed and block them. You keep spamming the forums the moderators may just ignore you.

I don't give two flips what moderators think, or if they ignore me. Its the devs, programmers, and higher that need to be aware of this kind of stuff. Mods are just paid flunkies who keep us forum trolls in line and delete posts when they fall outside of the guidelines. Way back when (during everquests heyday) I used to be a forum mod, and I can tell you that none of the upper people in the company gave a rat's butt about what went on in the forums. PLayers were looked down upon by people like Brad McQuaid, as "They have no idea what they want, I know what they want" was the mentality.

I would agree with this statement having worked in development/administration for a gaming company (a MUD actually.) Players really don't know what they want. Developers probably don't have a lock on it either, but players are never happy if you give them what they request. It's never what they actually want because the implementation often ends up making it dissimilar. But even when it doesn't, they'll still complain.

Also, while there are a few gems here and there, as far as class abilities and combat goes, most players ideas are just dumb and way over the top.

GnatB wrote: »

Tendeep wrote: »

Just my 2 cents, but ZOS has ignored this horrible, horrible, skill line for far too long. This should have been brought up to par with Vamps months ago.

I have to disagree. Vamps should be brought down to be on par with ww's. And, I guess throwing oil on the fire, ZoS saying they're aware that they aren't performing as expected doesn't mean that they aren't performing as intended. Could just mean that your expectations don't match their intent.

(Personally, I've always considered WW/Vampirism in the ES universe to always be a severe liability that you get, do the questlines for, and then cure as quickly as possible. IMO the same should be true in ESO. Currently the downsides (to vampirism, at least) aren't *nearly* severe enough, and the upsides far too good. Taking significant damage if outside during the day, and automatic aggro from all guards if you're in stage 4 (and possibly 3) would be a good start. Stop pandering to the current twilight/vampire diaries/true blood "vampires are cool" crowd.

if vamp was put in line with ww it would become useless, though vamp does need a nerf, werewolf has absolutely zero use. I have played both (and playing a vamp now). Vamp is ridiculous, werewolf is only good if you want to take on a fighter's guild vulnerability. You obviously never played a vamp or a werewolf in TES. They both had good upsides for the extreme downsides. I never felt like I needed to cure it as fast as possible.

There would be zero reason to even have the skill lines in the game with your suggestions. They would be nonfunctional (much like werewolf is now.)

You obviously hate vampires as a concept, which is fine, but that does not mean that everyone who wants to play one should be punished or that it has anything to do with Twilight. Go read Dracula and tell me about all the awful downsides the count is suffering from. I will take a weakness to daylight at stage 4 (similar to how oblivion did it) if I can have those upsides.

GnatB wrote: »

Spottswoode wrote: »

There should be clear advantages to each, but we can equalize them by expanding the power of the Fighter's Guild line against them. There should also be gear specifically dedicated to fighting the two groups. (Similar to the Dawnguard gear in Skyrim.) There should also be some class skills that are made to use against them. (Vampire's bane should actually do extra damage to vampires.)

To be fair, I thought Silver Bolts 100% proc bug was actually a good idea. It wouldn't have seemed nearly so bad if everybody and their brother wasn't a vamp/ww. If only 5% of the pop was vulnerable, most people probably wouldn't have it slotted.

no it was ridiculous, even if the percentage of players getting destroyed by it was less, those players would be be nonfunctional.

Carnagan wrote: »

Srugzal wrote: »

A link to some kind of reference here would be helpful. Yes, there are many threads on the subject which can be found through search, but finding staff posts specifically is just not something doable. This is something else they've "said they are going to fix." lol

Sure, it only took me about 30 seconds of effort on the forum search. They said it at Quakecon. Video and Transcript found in first post in this thread.

What was said.
Question
Werewolves are in need of updates. Are there changes in places for werewolves?

Answer
Nick [Konkle]: Yes, absolutely. There are two phases of changes. For starters, we are going to balance the ultimate – decrease cost, increase damage etc. In the second phase we are going to add in more active abilities.


@Obscure, yes actions speak louder than words, but this is an MMO. This evolve over time and it takes more time to see how things work with a bigger population. They do change things in response to constructive feedback, they just take their time in doing balance so as not to completely unbalance other things.

Thanks, good answer.

As soon as you take them to the vet?

Maverick827 wrote: »

Srugzal wrote: »

Carnagan wrote: »

Srugzal wrote: »

A link to some kind of reference here would be helpful. Yes, there are many threads on the subject which can be found through search, but finding staff posts specifically is just not something doable. This is something else they've "said they are going to fix." lol

Sure, it only took me about 30 seconds of effort on the forum search. They said it at Quakecon. Video and Transcript found in first post in this thread.

What was said.
Question
Werewolves are in need of updates. Are there changes in places for werewolves?

Answer
Nick [Konkle]: Yes, absolutely. There are two phases of changes. For starters, we are going to balance the ultimate – decrease cost, increase damage etc. In the second phase we are going to add in more active abilities.


@Obscure, yes actions speak louder than words, but this is an MMO. This evolve over time and it takes more time to see how things work with a bigger population. They do change things in response to constructive feedback, they just take their time in doing balance so as not to completely unbalance other things.

Thanks, good answer.

There were even other acknowledgments that Werewolves would be fixed months earlier.

They're taking forever to fix them. I remember back in the first month of the game, when I still had hope, that my Werewolf would be buffed soon. Surely they couldn't let this disparity go on for too long.

There's a meta-game here that ZOS hasn't really done very well, and that's managing player expectation. Perhaps it's shocking to hear, but ZOS seems slow to realize that players expect them to keep their promises in a timely manner. I know, who would have guessed?

After a while, "soon" loses its original meaning, and starts to appear to actually mean "stop bothering me about this." Sadly, we're well past that now.

There is already a "FIX" for werewolf's.

Go to the mage guild and talk to the guy for a cure. It fixes werewolf's for a small fee.

Obscure wrote: »

If they hadn't wiped the PTS forums, I'd link you a thread months before launch where Werewolves being a terrible skill line was noted, had Dev responses, and no action has been taken. Accepting low quality game development because it's an MMO is an atrocious excuse. Its indefensibly poor game design. Yes, they are learning. Yes, they will address it eventually. But no, they don't care, I.E. it's not a priority, not important to them, not anything they consider worth having done in any measure of reasonable time.

It's not even personally important to me, I've at no point been interested in the skill line to begin with. But when I see this sort of foot dragging on core launch features, yet see them add entirely new systems it shows what the studio does or doesn't care about. They literally put more development time into giving the player the ability to dye their armor like a magical rainbow unicorn...

I've had a bit of an epiphany about this. I now think that I'm beginning to understand this head-scratchingly odd behavior of ZOS, this apparent unwillingness for them to respond to long standing problems--problems you so aptly call "core launch features" here, @Obscure, and which I'd expand to include persistent, unaddressed quest bugs, and maybe some other things.

I believe that their business model counts on account churn--a certain number of accounts closing, another number, hopefully slightly larger, opening, each month.

It's similar to the obsolescence strategies of automobile manufacturers. People will be convinced to buy the latest model, and the problems with the old, broken models can be ignored, or worse, covered up.

Players, as they work through the content, will accumulate discontent with things that don't work as advertised. They'll encounter game-breaking bugs, and, over time, will decide to abandon the game because of them.

Because questions about these things are officially ignored, new players may not hear about them or not notice them for a good long while. Meanwhile, more and more "candy" features get added (always in the name of "responding to player needs," of course), distracting from a long-standing problem set that never goes away.

Because new players are always coming, the company literally doesn't need to fix the problems, because the people who complain about them eventually leave. This sets up a feedback loop in which the formation of a common understanding of the game's problems is suppressed, and in which there is a constant influx of players attracted to the shiny new stuff. A devious but thoroughly profitable business process that minimizes the difficult task of fixing bugs--thereby cutting labor overhead.

And the most ironic of all is the people who come back to the game, having quit once already, thinking--wrongly--that things will be better this time. So sad.

The fact that some things do get fixed--more or less--just proves that some problems are judged to have imperiled the viability of the account churn model. That explains, for instance, the VR nerf, as well as the Vamp nerf. They worked not because they were good ideas, but because they provided just that extra measure of account retention to return the trend to positive. That, my friends, is how they decide what to fix, and what to add. If a fix has the opposite result, if it harms the trend, you can bet it will be rescinded.

So, not only do they not care about some problems, they don't need to.

Draxuul wrote: »

I find it funny when someone says that werewolves are broken and need to be fixed .

Does transforming into a werewolf cause your game to crash ? If not then it's not broken.

Your werewolf form may not be as powerful as you'd like it to be but that doesn't make it broken.

Personnaly i cannot help to think that if werewolves and vamps were too powerful compared to a non monster player, Cyrodiil would simply turn into a Vamp VS Wolf war. No one would be interested in playing regular characters anymore . In fact it is my belief that too much of the total population of players are already either one or the other .

I know it's to be expected in an MMO but still . Zenimax can't really afford to make Wolves and Vamps too powerful because they need to be somewhat ballanced with non monster players.

That being said, i know i heard Zenimax mention that they would tweak Werewolves to makes them more fun to play and more useful . I simply do not think that right now it's anywhere near their number 1 priority considering that there are a lot of more serious issues in the game at the moment .

Being a werewolf is not a necessity in order to experience the game content. And if you use it as is, it's not causing any issues with game performance or crashes or bugs. So yeah they will eventually do something about it but for now there are some much more serious issues that need fixing .

Draxuul

you don't really know what the problems with werewolf are, do you? It's not just them being underwhelming, the ultimate itself is bugged. As well as bugs with transformation, which makes the skill line unusable. Just because it doesn't crash the game doesn't mean the skill line is functional or not broken. That's just an arbitrary measurement you've made up.