[Unchained] Why stam builds become completely broken w/ 360 CP

Teargrants

Ok, so it seems there's still a large number of ppl (even on pts) who aren't aware of this, or how insane it is. So here I am to explain:

HOLY JESUS BATMAN!
I don't know what ZOS was smoking when they came up with this passive, but I can't think of a single example of something as blatantly broken as this in eso. Let me elucidate:

360 CP, just make sure you put all your Warrior ones into the Lady.
Stam build + Way of the Arena + Unchained + [insert w/e stam abilities you wanna spam]

At that point, your stamina is basically free, just make sure to let ppl CC you. For example, w/ that you can spam Bone Shield (since it's stam now) and shut down physical dps. When fighting a stam build that has this, it turns into Bizzaro World where it's detrimental to CC them because /logic.

This isn't some thing about max CP being OP, all you need is 360 - and if you don't think ppl (especially stam builds) will grind that out in weeks, you're living in a fantasy.

Xsorus

It's not to bad on medium armor builds as the cost is already insanely low, but it makes heavy insanely powerful at that point. Which is funny, because before that heavy is pretty crappy.. Once you get that though is becomes crazy good.

XEVENEX

Lionxoft

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

It's not to bad on medium armor builds as the cost is already insanely low, but it makes heavy insanely powerful at that point. Which is funny, because before that heavy is pretty crappy.. Once you get that though is becomes crazy good.

Yeah, I think that the base unchained cost reduction % needs to be rebalanced however grant a bonus per piece of heavy armor equipped. Medium armor builds benefit from this passive the most which is nothing new to heavy armor wearers. On live, medium armor wearers benefits from a heavy armor active ability the most.

Without this champion passive heavy armor loses a lot of it's luster which to be quite frank isn't much before 1.6 due to armor/spell resist debuffs galore.

Medium wearers with way of the arena or their respective alliance medium PvP set benefit the most from unchained.

I'll reiterate my point that the cost reduction on stamina abilities the Unchained passive provides needs to be relooked at however I don't think it should be scrapped entirely because of it's utility for heavy armor wearers.

Panda244

But. Does it apply to block?

Soulac

It doesn't apply on block, dodge, bash or break free.. Fortunately.

Panda244

Soulac wrote: »

It doesn't apply on block, dodge, bash or break free.. Fortunately.

Oh well then I have no problem with it, it's entirely useless then... Sure your abilities cost 80% less but you're not any harder to kill...

Vis

Reminds me of the old Burglar skill in Lotro. If you ever accidently cc'ed a Burglar, you would heal him for full hp, replenish his resources, and make him immune to damage for 30 seconds. Those were fun times, though only for us burgs.

XEVENEX

Panda244 wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

It doesn't apply on block, dodge, bash or break free.. Fortunately.

Oh well then I have no problem with it, it's entirely useless then... Sure your abilities cost 80% less but you're not any harder to kill...

wut? fights are all about resources, especially stamina. have you seen vigor?

Xsorus

Panda244 wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

It doesn't apply on block, dodge, bash or break free.. Fortunately.

Oh well then I have no problem with it, it's entirely useless then... Sure your abilities cost 80% less but you're not any harder to kill...

Well it does make you harder to kill, simply because you can also on full heavy and not suck.

Panda244

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

It doesn't apply on block, dodge, bash or break free.. Fortunately.

Oh well then I have no problem with it, it's entirely useless then... Sure your abilities cost 80% less but you're not any harder to kill...

Well it does make you harder to kill, simply because you can also on full heavy and not suck.

People are wearing full heavy on live and not sucking, go watch Lefty Lucy's new video

Domander

It seems like an awesome perk to me, will take a while to get though..

PlagueMonk

....brought to you by the same people that replaced the Argonian racial with a crap ability, replaced the NB pot efficiency with a crap ability, makes invisibility pots better than NB abilities, stripped us of may of our abilities (and stats) and stuck them behind an artificial CP wall, ruined hybrid builds, etc, etc, etc.

Doesn't surprise me in the least........sadly

Xsorus

Panda244 wrote: »

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

It doesn't apply on block, dodge, bash or break free.. Fortunately.

Oh well then I have no problem with it, it's entirely useless then... Sure your abilities cost 80% less but you're not any harder to kill...

Well it does make you harder to kill, simply because you can also on full heavy and not suck.

People are wearing full heavy on live and not sucking, go watch Lefty Lucy's new video

That's cause resources aren't super bad on live compared to pts.

spoqster

PlagueMonk wrote: »

....brought to you by the same people that replaced the Argonian racial with a crap ability, replaced the NB pot efficiency with a crap ability, makes invisibility pots better than NB abilities, stripped us of may of our abilities (and stats) and stuck them behind an artificial CP wall, ruined hybrid builds, etc, etc, etc.

Doesn't surprise me in the least........sadly

Interesting. Could you elaborate how they ruined hybrid builds? I love hybrid builds, I only ever run hybrid. :-/

Saint_JiubB14_ESO

I just really feel this sums up almost everything I've seen in 1.6.x

Panda244

spoqster wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

....brought to you by the same people that replaced the Argonian racial with a crap ability, replaced the NB pot efficiency with a crap ability, makes invisibility pots better than NB abilities, stripped us of may of our abilities (and stats) and stuck them behind an artificial CP wall, ruined hybrid builds, etc, etc, etc.

Doesn't surprise me in the least........sadly

Interesting. Could you elaborate how they ruined hybrid builds? I love hybrid builds, I only ever run hybrid. :-/

Maybe when you get the maximum number of CP, but because of the overall nerf to all characters in 1.6, when you first start, you cannot run an effective hybrid build because you simply won't have enough resources to maintain both ends of it. You have to completely delve into one resource or the other to be effective. Or so I've been told.

Xsorus

Panda244 wrote: »

spoqster wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

....brought to you by the same people that replaced the Argonian racial with a crap ability, replaced the NB pot efficiency with a crap ability, makes invisibility pots better than NB abilities, stripped us of may of our abilities (and stats) and stuck them behind an artificial CP wall, ruined hybrid builds, etc, etc, etc.

Doesn't surprise me in the least........sadly

Interesting. Could you elaborate how they ruined hybrid builds? I love hybrid builds, I only ever run hybrid. :-/

Maybe when you get the maximum number of CP, but because of the overall nerf to all characters in 1.6, when you first start, you cannot run an effective hybrid build because you simply won't have enough resources to maintain both ends of it. You have to completely delve into one resource or the other to be effective. Or so I've been told.

Offensive wise this is true, you simply won't have enough resources to be effective, defensive wise it's still the same

Jahosefat

And check out the easy-access 10 point "retaliation" in the atronarch: "Increase the damage of your next physical attack by 30% after blocking a heavy attack".

Better not heavy attack a 2Her either *cough* elder stam online. (nice post btw ).

[Edit]: Or a st-ambush NB

AssaultLemming

Ooh good because perma blocking dks needed something to use against those pesky resto staff heavy attacks.

Snit

LA/ Magicka was dominant for the first year of TESO. A karmic reckoning is now at hand.

PlagueMonk

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Panda244 wrote: »

spoqster wrote: »

PlagueMonk wrote: »

....brought to you by the same people that replaced the Argonian racial with a crap ability, replaced the NB pot efficiency with a crap ability, makes invisibility pots better than NB abilities, stripped us of may of our abilities (and stats) and stuck them behind an artificial CP wall, ruined hybrid builds, etc, etc, etc.

Doesn't surprise me in the least........sadly

Interesting. Could you elaborate how they ruined hybrid builds? I love hybrid builds, I only ever run hybrid. :-/

Maybe when you get the maximum number of CP, but because of the overall nerf to all characters in 1.6, when you first start, you cannot run an effective hybrid build because you simply won't have enough resources to maintain both ends of it. You have to completely delve into one resource or the other to be effective. Or so I've been told.

Offensive wise this is true, you simply won't have enough resources to be effective, defensive wise it's still the same

Also, because of the removal of the soft caps, you will be penalized for attempting to have a decent amount of spell or weapon damage. I know some abilities give you both or whichever is higher but most gear has either one or the other. So come 1.6 you will want to either raise one or the other as high as you can.

XEVENEX

Depending on your build this is still true on live, its even better now making hybrids less attractive.

bosmern_ESO

Teargrants wrote: »

Ok, so it seems there's still a large number of ppl (even on pts) who aren't aware of this, or how insane it is. So here I am to explain:

HOLY JESUS BATMAN!
I don't know what ZOS was smoking when they came up with this passive, but I can't think of a single example of something as blatantly broken as this in eso. Let me elucidate:

360 CP, just make sure you put all your Warrior ones into the Lady.
Stam build + Way of the Arena + Unchained + [insert w/e stam abilities you wanna spam]

At that point, your stamina is basically free, just make sure to let ppl CC you. For example, w/ that you can spam Bone Shield (since it's stam now) and shut down physical dps. When fighting a stam build that has this, it turns into Bizzaro World where it's detrimental to CC them because /logic.

This isn't some thing about max CP being OP, all you need is 360 - and if you don't think ppl (especially stam builds) will grind that out in weeks, you're living in a fantasy.

Unlike magicka, a players stamina pool isn't only drained from abilities. Stamina drains from roll dodge, blocking, sprinting, breaking CC, and Abilities.

What's wrong with Stamina builds currently (in 1.5) is that they run out of stamina way to fast, then they sit there hopelessly waiting for death. Stamina builds can do two things:
1. Use abilities, run out of stamina quickly and then get one CC and sit there hopelessly watching their character die because they can't break the CC, get out of the AoE, etc.
2. don't attack at all and run out of stamina and then they can only light/heavy attack target which will do no damage and just get them killed a bit slower.

Xsorus

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Ok, so it seems there's still a large number of ppl (even on pts) who aren't aware of this, or how insane it is. So here I am to explain:

HOLY JESUS BATMAN!
I don't know what ZOS was smoking when they came up with this passive, but I can't think of a single example of something as blatantly broken as this in eso. Let me elucidate:

360 CP, just make sure you put all your Warrior ones into the Lady.
Stam build + Way of the Arena + Unchained + [insert w/e stam abilities you wanna spam]

At that point, your stamina is basically free, just make sure to let ppl CC you. For example, w/ that you can spam Bone Shield (since it's stam now) and shut down physical dps. When fighting a stam build that has this, it turns into Bizzaro World where it's detrimental to CC them because /logic.

This isn't some thing about max CP being OP, all you need is 360 - and if you don't think ppl (especially stam builds) will grind that out in weeks, you're living in a fantasy.

Unlike magicka, a players stamina pool isn't only drained from abilities. Stamina drains from roll dodge, blocking, sprinting, breaking CC, and Abilities.

What's wrong with Stamina builds currently (in 1.5) is that they run out of stamina way to fast, then they sit there hopelessly waiting for death. Stamina builds can do two things:
1. Use abilities, run out of stamina quickly and then get one CC and sit there hopelessly watching their character die because they can't break the CC, get out of the AoE, etc.
2. don't attack at all and run out of stamina and then they can only light/heavy attack target which will do no damage and just get them killed a bit slower.

It helps to stack stamina recovery on live, on pts it's not as effective

Teargrants

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Ok, so it seems there's still a large number of ppl (even on pts) who aren't aware of this, or how insane it is. So here I am to explain:

HOLY JESUS BATMAN!
I don't know what ZOS was smoking when they came up with this passive, but I can't think of a single example of something as blatantly broken as this in eso. Let me elucidate:

360 CP, just make sure you put all your Warrior ones into the Lady.
Stam build + Way of the Arena + Unchained + [insert w/e stam abilities you wanna spam]

At that point, your stamina is basically free, just make sure to let ppl CC you. For example, w/ that you can spam Bone Shield (since it's stam now) and shut down physical dps. When fighting a stam build that has this, it turns into Bizzaro World where it's detrimental to CC them because /logic.

This isn't some thing about max CP being OP, all you need is 360 - and if you don't think ppl (especially stam builds) will grind that out in weeks, you're living in a fantasy.

Unlike magicka, a players stamina pool isn't only drained from abilities. Stamina drains from roll dodge, blocking, sprinting, breaking CC, and Abilities.

What's wrong with Stamina builds currently (in 1.5) is that they run out of stamina way to fast, then they sit there hopelessly waiting for death. Stamina builds can do two things:
1. Use abilities, run out of stamina quickly and then get one CC and sit there hopelessly watching their character die because they can't break the CC, get out of the AoE, etc.
2. don't attack at all and run out of stamina and then they can only light/heavy attack target which will do no damage and just get them killed a bit slower.

Lol, have you played much on pts? Magicka builds are the ones that cannot maintain the stam to CC break, stam builds on the other hand are able to, and that's without factoring Unchained in.

3 reduce stam cost enchants (work on all stam costs, abilities/dodge/block) and stam builds do not run out of resources any faster than magicka builds run out of magicka. 1.6 is all about stacking cost reduction and regen, mag vs stam plays very differently than on live. A stam build w/ way of the arena proccing Unchained simply does not run out of stamina. This is an issue in a meta where whoever runs out of stam first dies.

Satiar

Teargrants wrote: »

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Ok, so it seems there's still a large number of ppl (even on pts) who aren't aware of this, or how insane it is. So here I am to explain:

HOLY JESUS BATMAN!
I don't know what ZOS was smoking when they came up with this passive, but I can't think of a single example of something as blatantly broken as this in eso. Let me elucidate:

360 CP, just make sure you put all your Warrior ones into the Lady.
Stam build + Way of the Arena + Unchained + [insert w/e stam abilities you wanna spam]

At that point, your stamina is basically free, just make sure to let ppl CC you. For example, w/ that you can spam Bone Shield (since it's stam now) and shut down physical dps. When fighting a stam build that has this, it turns into Bizzaro World where it's detrimental to CC them because /logic.

This isn't some thing about max CP being OP, all you need is 360 - and if you don't think ppl (especially stam builds) will grind that out in weeks, you're living in a fantasy.

Unlike magicka, a players stamina pool isn't only drained from abilities. Stamina drains from roll dodge, blocking, sprinting, breaking CC, and Abilities.

What's wrong with Stamina builds currently (in 1.5) is that they run out of stamina way to fast, then they sit there hopelessly waiting for death. Stamina builds can do two things:
1. Use abilities, run out of stamina quickly and then get one CC and sit there hopelessly watching their character die because they can't break the CC, get out of the AoE, etc.
2. don't attack at all and run out of stamina and then they can only light/heavy attack target which will do no damage and just get them killed a bit slower.

Lol, have you played much on pts? Magicka builds are the ones that cannot maintain the stam to CC break, stam builds on the other hand are able to, and that's without factoring Unchained in.

3 reduce stam cost enchants (work on all stam costs, abilities/dodge/block) and stam builds do not run out of resources any faster than magicka builds run out of magicka. 1.6 is all about stacking cost reduction and regen, mag vs stam plays very differently than on live. A stam build w/ way of the arena proccing Unchained simply does not run out of stamina. This is an issue in a meta where whoever runs out of stam first dies.

Unfortunately Teargrants is correct.

Xsorus

Teargrants wrote: »

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Ok, so it seems there's still a large number of ppl (even on pts) who aren't aware of this, or how insane it is. So here I am to explain:

HOLY JESUS BATMAN!
I don't know what ZOS was smoking when they came up with this passive, but I can't think of a single example of something as blatantly broken as this in eso. Let me elucidate:

360 CP, just make sure you put all your Warrior ones into the Lady.
Stam build + Way of the Arena + Unchained + [insert w/e stam abilities you wanna spam]

At that point, your stamina is basically free, just make sure to let ppl CC you. For example, w/ that you can spam Bone Shield (since it's stam now) and shut down physical dps. When fighting a stam build that has this, it turns into Bizzaro World where it's detrimental to CC them because /logic.

This isn't some thing about max CP being OP, all you need is 360 - and if you don't think ppl (especially stam builds) will grind that out in weeks, you're living in a fantasy.

Unlike magicka, a players stamina pool isn't only drained from abilities. Stamina drains from roll dodge, blocking, sprinting, breaking CC, and Abilities.

What's wrong with Stamina builds currently (in 1.5) is that they run out of stamina way to fast, then they sit there hopelessly waiting for death. Stamina builds can do two things:
1. Use abilities, run out of stamina quickly and then get one CC and sit there hopelessly watching their character die because they can't break the CC, get out of the AoE, etc.
2. don't attack at all and run out of stamina and then they can only light/heavy attack target which will do no damage and just get them killed a bit slower.

Lol, have you played much on pts? Magicka builds are the ones that cannot maintain the stam to CC break, stam builds on the other hand are able to, and that's without factoring Unchained in.

3 reduce stam cost enchants (work on all stam costs, abilities/dodge/block) and stam builds do not run out of resources any faster than magicka builds run out of magicka. 1.6 is all about stacking cost reduction and regen, mag vs stam plays very differently than on live. A stam build w/ way of the arena proccing Unchained simply does not run out of stamina. This is an issue in a meta where whoever runs out of stam first dies.

Are stamina cost reduction enchants working on block now? That seems weird as an enchant already exist for that.

xylena

Panda244 wrote: »

Oh well then I have no problem with it, it's entirely useless then... Sure your abilities cost 80% less but you're not any harder to kill...

with as little as 360cp i can roll dodge pretty much infinitely... the only way i'm dying at that point is being hit several times while stuck in one of the long cc animations before it lets me use break free... scatter shot, power bash, fear, uppercut, etc...

Garwulf

I am very excited about this. After the boring VR grind, currently around 13 million points to get to VR14 (was much more when I did it), the thought of only needing 144 million points to get this is making me salivate.

Or rather maybe it has me thinking of banging my head against a brick wall until I come to my senses.

Soulac

xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

Ok, so it seems there's still a large number of ppl (even on pts) who aren't aware of this, or how insane it is. So here I am to explain:

HOLY JESUS BATMAN!
I don't know what ZOS was smoking when they came up with this passive, but I can't think of a single example of something as blatantly broken as this in eso. Let me elucidate:

360 CP, just make sure you put all your Warrior ones into the Lady.
Stam build + Way of the Arena + Unchained + [insert w/e stam abilities you wanna spam]

At that point, your stamina is basically free, just make sure to let ppl CC you. For example, w/ that you can spam Bone Shield (since it's stam now) and shut down physical dps. When fighting a stam build that has this, it turns into Bizzaro World where it's detrimental to CC them because /logic.

This isn't some thing about max CP being OP, all you need is 360 - and if you don't think ppl (especially stam builds) will grind that out in weeks, you're living in a fantasy.

Unlike magicka, a players stamina pool isn't only drained from abilities. Stamina drains from roll dodge, blocking, sprinting, breaking CC, and Abilities.

What's wrong with Stamina builds currently (in 1.5) is that they run out of stamina way to fast, then they sit there hopelessly waiting for death. Stamina builds can do two things:
1. Use abilities, run out of stamina quickly and then get one CC and sit there hopelessly watching their character die because they can't break the CC, get out of the AoE, etc.
2. don't attack at all and run out of stamina and then they can only light/heavy attack target which will do no damage and just get them killed a bit slower.

Lol, have you played much on pts? Magicka builds are the ones that cannot maintain the stam to CC break, stam builds on the other hand are able to, and that's without factoring Unchained in.

3 reduce stam cost enchants (work on all stam costs, abilities/dodge/block) and stam builds do not run out of resources any faster than magicka builds run out of magicka. 1.6 is all about stacking cost reduction and regen, mag vs stam plays very differently than on live. A stam build w/ way of the arena proccing Unchained simply does not run out of stamina. This is an issue in a meta where whoever runs out of stam first dies.

Are stamina cost reduction enchants working on block now? That seems weird as an enchant already exist for that.

Stamina cost reduce works on Stamina abilitys like bash, dodge and break free.
Block doesn't count to it.. It's not something you 'activate'
But there is a block cost reduce glyph.