Are vampires ACTUALLY broken?

MornaBaine

I don't have add-ons that run the numbers for me but here are my general concerns and observations with my Vet 4 Vampire Sorc. I have 3,000 points in fire mitigation jewelry yet I and other vampires are just literally DESTROYED, virtually instantly, by most bosses with fire attacks. I wear Vampire's Kiss armor with 3 pieces of Song of Lamae, some of it purple, some blue, a couple green pieces, Vet 1 gear. (I'll upgrade at Vet 5.) Better geared vampires (also played by far better players than I) have the same problem. I went into a dungeon recently, all roles filled, 3 of us were vamps. There was an arena with a bunch of fire beetles. We wiped again and again with TWO of us full on healing. In the end the three of us just lay there dead while the ONE non-vamp in the party kited and used dots to eventually bring down the last FOUR fire beetles all by themselves. I started that dungeon at Stage 1, ended at Stage 4 because there were no viable feeding opportunities, which is also a problem in dungeons. So....is this REALLY working as intended in PvE?

I've seen others say that our passives are broken and that our health regen is not working as it is supposed to across the various Stages.

So...I'd appreciate some input from those who play vampires in PvE (not just PvP) and those who actually know and understand the math involved. Please chime in!

Natjur

No matter how much fire resistance you have, you will also take 50% extra fire damage then a non vampire player with the same fire resistance.

(1) If your at the Spell Resistance hard cap, your also at the Fire Resistance hard cap
(2) At the hard cap, you will take 50% less damage then with no resistance
(3) At the soft cap, you will take 33% less damage then with no resistance

So if an fire attack is for 5000, and your a normal player, at the fire resistance hard cap, it will hit you for 2500

If your a vampire, the 50% extra damage is added first
So its 5000 x 1.5 then x 0.5 for maxed resistance.
That still hits you for 3750 which is 50% more damage then a non vampire even if tho your at the fire resistance hard cap

Doing an fire instance as a vampire or a poison instance as a werewolf = hard and lots of one shots if you make the smallest mistake and vampire tanks (who have to stay in fire alot for some instances)..... not worth it.

chipputer

I was rolling as a Dunmer vamp with the innate fire resist and an amulet with 1550 fire resist on it. If I ran into anything fire I was pretty much instantly melted unless I was constantly dropping a heal on myself after every hit.

Meanwhile, I have since killed the vampirism (since I can't justify taking that much damage, especially as a healer (which ruins my light-RP for that character as a frontlines healer turned in the line of duty)) and I can handle nearly every bit of fire damage.

There's something screwy going on with that flat 50% increase in damage, almost like it's giving you the 50% without factoring in the resistances at all. I had assumed it would mitigate the damage, then add 50% more, or they'd add 50% more, then factor in mitigation, but it sure doesn't seem like they are.

sagitter

Veteran City of Ash is the best dungeon for vampires

chipputer

Natjur wrote: »

If your a vampire, the 50% extra damage is added first
So its 5000 x 1.5 then x 0.5 for maxed resistance.
That still hits you for 3750 which is 50% more damage then a non vampire even if tho your at the fire resistance hard cap

Is this the confirmed formula for it?

That makes sense, then, but it's still pretty pointless with how powerful the monsters in veteran instances are. Almost like being a vampire is just setting yourself up to die anymore.

RinaldoGandolphi

I'm not a vamp, but I believe mist form reduces the damage you take significantly, if you can anticipate when the fire is coming, mist form should save your life often when faced with fire in pve.

LordEcks

woodsro wrote: »

I'm not a vamp, but I believe mist form reduces the damage you take significantly, if you can anticipate when the fire is coming, mist form should save your life often when faced with fire in pve.

Nobody wants to hear this. Having to waste an ability to counteract the one downside of all the buffs we have over non vamps? Perposterous.

I should be able to equip one ring and be as viable as everyone else, in any dungeon.

Wing

also elusive mist is not allowing magika to regen, though the tooltip states no such effect.

Govalon

Just cure your vampirism and be done with it. I also had to cure it because I play a lot endgame pve. Vampirism is completely useless in pve, giving you zero bonuses while still giving you huge penalties. IMO being vampire should give you bonuses and negatives but this is not the case in endgame pve. Shame really because I have always been a vampire in all ES games. I tried to be one here too but it is just not viable. Maybe someday they add even one dungeon where even one monster does something else than fire damage.

It does not help in pvp that most popular class is designed from ground up to be fire mage (DK)

I have been vampire from the very first days after early access and upon curing it, game became a LOT easier. I no longer die in pve. At all. That is the one good thing about vampirism, it forces you to learn to stay away from red

brandon

MornaBaine wrote: »

I don't have add-ons that run the numbers for me but here are my general concerns and observations with my Vet 4 Vampire Sorc. I have 3,000 points in fire mitigation jewelry yet I and other vampires are just literally DESTROYED, virtually instantly, by most bosses with fire attacks. I wear Vampire's Kiss armor with 3 pieces of Song of Lamae, some of it purple, some blue, a couple green pieces, Vet 1 gear. (I'll upgrade at Vet 5.) Better geared vampires (also played by far better players than I) have the same problem. I went into a dungeon recently, all roles filled, 3 of us were vamps. There was an arena with a bunch of fire beetles. We wiped again and again with TWO of us full on healing. In the end the three of us just lay there dead while the ONE non-vamp in the party kited and used dots to eventually bring down the last FOUR fire beetles all by themselves. I started that dungeon at Stage 1, ended at Stage 4 because there were no viable feeding opportunities, which is also a problem in dungeons. So....is this REALLY working as intended in PvE?

I've seen others say that our passives are broken and that our health regen is not working as it is supposed to across the various Stages.

So...I'd appreciate some input from those who play vampires in PvE (not just PvP) and those who actually know and understand the math involved. Please chime in!

I remember those fire beetles. I can't remember what dungeon they were in, but i remember that the beetles hit extremely hard especially for a vamp (my experience) player.

kewl

Not broken, it's the tradeoff you face when choosing to be a vamp.

PBpsy

It should burn even harder and kill you once more after you are rezed.

martinhpb16_ESO

MornaBaine wrote: »

I went into a dungeon recently, all roles filled, 3 of us were vamps. There was an arena with a bunch of fire beetles. We wiped again and again

For those beetles use some cc roots and range. Stay out of the fire. It is doable with vamp. Almost same scenario as you but as the only one left in our group on one occasion I soloed 3 down using roots (daily pledge v14 normal mode) and I'm a vamp.

MornaBaine

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

I went into a dungeon recently, all roles filled, 3 of us were vamps. There was an arena with a bunch of fire beetles. We wiped again and again

For those beetles use some cc roots and range. Stay out of the fire. It is doable with vamp. Almost same scenario as you but as the only one left in our group on one occasion I soloed 3 down using roots (daily pledge v14 normal mode) and I'm a vamp.

That's pretty freaking inspirational! But I'm still concerned that the mechanics are not working as they are supposed to. I hope I can ultimately get an answer on that one way or another.

Alexium

Fire is a problem. Huge problem! When I see fires than my mind starts thinking how to avoid from it. How to survive it. How to mitigate it effect. I think it is price for playing vampire. We must more moving, using defending abilities etc. It is fun for me.

Of course we can to compensate our weak sides and must to do so. In this way I want to know real numbers of fire protection for non-vampires.

I think fire resist is not broken, but 50% is a big number for not prepared players. If you wants being absolute effective you must to cure vampirism. This thing not for common play.

P.S. I'm sorry if I offended anyone. I don't know all the nuances of words.

Hybris6

Just be glad Its fire and not sunlight because then youd be stuck in the cave with the firebeetles until night..

Kromus

Hybris6 wrote: »

Just be glad Its fire and not sunlight because then youd be stuck in the cave with the firebeetles until night..

Right... and sun is not one giant fire ball?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a3/Giant_prominence_on_the_sun_erupted.jpg

CapuchinSeven

In PVE fire is a problem, Mist Form helps.
In PVP though it's really not a problem, despite claims that it is. Mist Form or a simple Purge, which is on a lot of PVP bars anyway sees you okay most of the time.

DezIsDead

Yeah vamp is still king in PvP. But I have started trying to level my undaunted, so I dropped it. It's just to dang hard to run it in PvE

clayandaudrey_ESO

MornaBaine wrote: »

martinhpb16_ESO wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

I went into a dungeon recently, all roles filled, 3 of us were vamps. There was an arena with a bunch of fire beetles. We wiped again and again

For those beetles use some cc roots and range. Stay out of the fire. It is doable with vamp. Almost same scenario as you but as the only one left in our group on one occasion I soloed 3 down using roots (daily pledge v14 normal mode) and I'm a vamp.

That's pretty freaking inspirational! But I'm still concerned that the mechanics are not working as they are supposed to. I hope I can ultimately get an answer on that one way or another.

It's working as intended.

etherin77

just waking up and coffee hasn't kicked in yet, so i skimmed this, but has anyone also noticed that lighting attacks (storm atronachs specifically) do a number on Vamps too, as a vr4 vamp couldn't take a lvl 40 down without problems, once i gave up the vamp line im able to take down ones that are a lvl above me...

Palidon

Its not broken but ZOS has seen fit to nerf it to the point of it being almost useless.

Merlight

Kromus wrote: »

Right... and sun is not one giant fire ball?
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a3/Giant_prominence_on_the_sun_erupted.jpg

You asked for it There's no Fire in the Sun.

Melian

I love my vamp, but she's DPS. There is no good reason for her to stand in fire, anyway. Having it on a tank or healer? You'd have to be crazy.

KenjiJU

brandon wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

I don't have add-ons that run the numbers for me but here are my general concerns and observations with my Vet 4 Vampire Sorc. I have 3,000 points in fire mitigation jewelry yet I and other vampires are just literally DESTROYED, virtually instantly, by most bosses with fire attacks. I wear Vampire's Kiss armor with 3 pieces of Song of Lamae, some of it purple, some blue, a couple green pieces, Vet 1 gear. (I'll upgrade at Vet 5.) Better geared vampires (also played by far better players than I) have the same problem. I went into a dungeon recently, all roles filled, 3 of us were vamps. There was an arena with a bunch of fire beetles. We wiped again and again with TWO of us full on healing. In the end the three of us just lay there dead while the ONE non-vamp in the party kited and used dots to eventually bring down the last FOUR fire beetles all by themselves. I started that dungeon at Stage 1, ended at Stage 4 because there were no viable feeding opportunities, which is also a problem in dungeons. So....is this REALLY working as intended in PvE?

I've seen others say that our passives are broken and that our health regen is not working as it is supposed to across the various Stages.

So...I'd appreciate some input from those who play vampires in PvE (not just PvP) and those who actually know and understand the math involved. Please chime in!

I remember those fire beetles. I can't remember what dungeon they were in, but i remember that the beetles hit extremely hard especially for a vamp (my experience) player.

Just want to point out that those beetles destroy non-vamp players too. It was one of the few tougher fights in a V12-14 scaled non-vet dungeon. If you have someone with frost-wall, it's not too bad.

poodlemasterb16_ESO

LOL. My VR9 Vampire Witch has over 2400 fire resist on several bits of bling, but never, ever wears it. The slots are too valuable and she can both avoid fire and kill pyros really quickly. She very seldom dies to fire. Can't remember the last time.

Latest trick for fun and jollies is to wipe swarms of wasps in Craglorn. Fire is not the answer here. It just makes em' faster and mean. You need, a Frost Staff, 50%+ Spell Crit, Elemental Ring, and Critical Surge, well into the orange with all of Weapon Damage, Max Magic and Magic Regen and you can stand in the wasps and kill em' all. The 5000hp ones, not the wussy 3500hp ones.

PBpsy

KenjiJU wrote: »

brandon wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

I don't have add-ons that run the numbers for me but here are my general concerns and observations with my Vet 4 Vampire Sorc. I have 3,000 points in fire mitigation jewelry yet I and other vampires are just literally DESTROYED, virtually instantly, by most bosses with fire attacks. I wear Vampire's Kiss armor with 3 pieces of Song of Lamae, some of it purple, some blue, a couple green pieces, Vet 1 gear. (I'll upgrade at Vet 5.) Better geared vampires (also played by far better players than I) have the same problem. I went into a dungeon recently, all roles filled, 3 of us were vamps. There was an arena with a bunch of fire beetles. We wiped again and again with TWO of us full on healing. In the end the three of us just lay there dead while the ONE non-vamp in the party kited and used dots to eventually bring down the last FOUR fire beetles all by themselves. I started that dungeon at Stage 1, ended at Stage 4 because there were no viable feeding opportunities, which is also a problem in dungeons. So....is this REALLY working as intended in PvE?

I've seen others say that our passives are broken and that our health regen is not working as it is supposed to across the various Stages.

So...I'd appreciate some input from those who play vampires in PvE (not just PvP) and those who actually know and understand the math involved. Please chime in!

I remember those fire beetles. I can't remember what dungeon they were in, but i remember that the beetles hit extremely hard especially for a vamp (my experience) player.

Just want to point out that those beetles destroy non-vamp players too. It was one of the few tougher fights in a V12-14 scaled non-vet dungeon. If you have someone with frost-wall, it's not too bad.

What works really well is stacking then NB drop Veil,Dk Drop Standard, Templar heal like crazy,Sorc Atronach or negate,everyone aoe dps or heal .If you have enough heals it works great. The problem is that people do not keep those bugs together and they get out of hand for both dps and heals.

Natjur

Four Vampire Templar's in Vet City of Ash for a joke..... That was fun but doable.

Nacario

Im a vamp and im able to do every vet dung. Most of the times i save my ulti as anegate for those o *** moments. To succeed as a vamp in vet dungs u preferably want a coordinated group, otherwise its hard. Other than that im on with the setback, the only issue is that they designed vet dungs to be so focused around fire dmg penalty mechanics.

kijima

Well, at least people aren't banging on about vampires being OP anymore.

Truth is, they are pretty average in PvP now.

Joy_Division

Govalon wrote: »

Just cure your vampirism and be done with it. I also had to cure it because I play a lot endgame pve. Vampirism is completely useless in pve, giving you zero bonuses while still giving you huge penalties. IMO being vampire should give you bonuses and negatives but this is not the case in endgame pve. Shame really because I have always been a vampire in all ES games. I tried to be one here too but it is just not viable. Maybe someday they add even one dungeon where even one monster does something else than fire damage.

It does not help in pvp that most popular class is designed from ground up to be fire mage (DK)

I have been vampire from the very first days after early access and upon curing it, game became a LOT easier. I no longer die in pve. At all. That is the one good thing about vampirism, it forces you to learn to stay away from red

1 - Vampirism gives you bonuses. Damage reduction and increased magicka/stamina recovery are tangible benefits.

2 - Vampirism also give access to beneficial skills. You don't have to run around like a headless chicken dodging PvE's many raining AoEs, just pop mist form.

3 - What exactly is the "huge penalty"? I wear one piece of fire resist jewelry (and it's not even gold) and now I view scamps as an inconvenience rather than a mortal threat.

4 - You mention PvP. Notice all the pale white skins on the highest ranked players? It is most certainly not for the aesthetics. Despite the most popular, most played, and perceived strongest class overflowing with fire damage, vampires are very strong in Cyrodiil and to some people over-powered - even with many players spamming silver shards and fire ballistae exploding everywhere. And you don't think they are viable?

5 - I am a Vampire Nord and have completed DSA, Hel-Ra, AA, City of Ash, etc, and the only concession I make is wearing a single purple fire resits glyph on my necklace.

It's a shame you felt compelled to follow the faulty advice of others rather than playing the way you want. Being a vampire is actually kind of cool.