Does ESO need crafting orders?

spoqster

With the new crafting quests coming in Update 5 I ask myself why they haven't implemented player crafting orders. I wonder how the community feels about this.


Background (copied from another post):
The gist of it is the following example: I need a VR11 shield, breton style, infused, tempered to purple and of Ashen Grip variety. That's a very specific request. With a crafting order system, I could put this order up at a local npc, another player could take the order, craft the thing and then send it to me for the advertised price.

There are a few things to consider, especially that the same order will not be crafted by two players, but there are solutions to all issues.

Crafting orders are necessary, because the (wonderful) variations ESO's crafting system offers make the current system that involves a crafter crafting an item beforehand and then posting it on the guild store non-viable. Nobody will craft a legendary khajit chest armor with impenetrable trait of the Ashen Grip variety to put it up on the guild store in hopes that some other player may want exactly that combination. That might work with a global AH, but not with ESO's fragmented economy. And no player that invests in legendary or even epic gear will make any kind of compromise in terms of trait or style.

Chufu

ESO needs crafting orders

Your idea sounds nice!

Those "crafting orders" could be a better way than "spamming" in the zone chat for a crafter.

Mondrely

ESO needs crafting orders

I like this idea! It would make getting the gear one needs much easier.

Welka

ESO needs crafting orders

ESO doesn't need that but it'd be nice to have that extra feature.

starkerealm

ESO needs crafting orders

spoqster wrote: »

There are a few things to consider, especially that the same order will not be crafted by two players, but there are solutions to all issues.

I agree, you could end up with some kind of trolling situation with people picking up orders but with no intention to fulfill... but, at the same time, I like the idea a lot.

Welka

ESO needs crafting orders

How about a 25% cancellation fee if the order isn't fullfilled within a period of time, say 2h?

AshySamurai

You place order and reward. Sounds nice. But this system have a few problem: 1. Too much false orders.
2. If you get order but not complete it - you get penalty or not?

starkerealm

ESO needs crafting orders

That might work. It's also possible that you'd get a situation where if you picked up a contract and it was fulfilled while you were doing it, you'd still get paid for the item, by the system instead of the player.

Again, I could see potential abuses, but, the overall idea is nice.

Another, similar possibility would be to log yourself as a crafter with the system, and actually get contracted specifically by the posting board when someone was wanting something crafted.

Dominoid

Need is such a strong word. I wish polls would avoid it and change their phrasing. While ESO doesn't NEED what you propose, it would certainly be cool and make the game more fun.

starkerealm

ESO needs crafting orders

It would be a fantastic quality of life addition, either way. Though, you're right, the game doesn't "need" it.

suycyco

ESO needs crafting orders

Everything that involve craft and player based economy is good for the game.

SantieClaws

Doesn't need it but it would be useful and stimulate trade. Another method for trade would be welcome given that there will most likely never be a global auction or trade system. A game with a healthy economy with plenty of trade going on is a game that is likely to stick around.

Thrymbauld

ESO needs crafting orders

AshySamurai wrote: »

You place order and reward. Sounds nice. But this system have a few problem: 1. Too much false orders.
2. If you get order but not complete it - you get penalty or not?

False orders are relatively easy to eliminate---you simply must deposit the amount of cash you're willing to pay in order to make the order. Money goes into "escrow" when the order is accepted, and deposited to crafter when the order is complete.

Taking orders you don't complete, since it'd arguably border on griefing, could be heavily penalized. Fail to complete an order in time specified(say, short orders being two hours, long being twenty four hours) means a monetary fine(full garnishment of all income until paid), a loss of materials that you'd have used, a loss of gear using said materials if you don't even have the mats, loss of your horse, vendors now attack you because you're ruining the name of the merchant class, and KOS by all guards for a period not less than one thousand millenia. That seems sufficient to guarantee delivery, because seriously, if you take an order you know you can't complete, you're a bad person. But the next paragraph can just as easily screen out relatively random grief and misclicks:

The game could also "screen" potential order takers by the materials they have on hand and crafting stations on their map---if you can't make it, you can't take the order, including not allowing any resource ingredients like Tannins unless you have enough for 100% chance. The only real addition that makes is a map check and the improvement check, the game already knows what your recipe book looks like.

Durban

I don't mind either way, I wouldn't use them

My guild already has a similar system in place, you post want you want, and provide the upgrade mats, and a crafter will make it for you. Works well for us.

kevlarto_ESO

ESO needs crafting orders

suycyco wrote: »

Everything that involve craft and player based economy is good for the game.

Agree anything that adds more options to the game I am all for it.

spoqster

ESO needs crafting orders

Durban wrote: »

My guild already has a similar system in place, you post want you want, and provide the upgrade mats, and a crafter will make it for you. Works well for us.

Glad that works for you. But do you handle it over chat?

Nox_Aeterna

I don't mind either way, I wouldn't use them

I dont trade with other players in anyway i would be forced to exchange even one word with them.

Reason i remain always only using the AHs and all my trade guilds are muted since i couldnt care less for anything they have to say.

Usually these orders do require some level of player interaction , reason i said i wouldnt use them anyway. IF they are 100% automatic , then yeah , there is a chance i would use them.

Rodario

ESO needs crafting orders

I agree with the principle, I just don't know how much it will be used in a game where everyone can make everything for themselves. I think I've only seen one "looking for crafted item" request in chat since about a month after release.

Also, knowing ZOS, if this is ever implemented those NPCs will probably have to be won in a blind bid and around a hundred will be spread across Tamriel.

Thrymbauld

ESO needs crafting orders

Rodario wrote: »

I agree with the principle, I just don't know how much it will be used in a game where everyone can make everything for themselves. I think I've only seen one "looking for crafted item" request in chat since about a month after release.

Also, knowing ZOS, if this is ever implemented those NPCs will probably have to be won in a blind bid and around a hundred will be spread across Tamriel.

I somewhat agree with the thought behind this, but I think it would get used a fair bit anyway.

Using myself for an example, I made a crafter because the game lacks a global auction house and I've got no interest in joining a guild solely to get to use some tardly little kiosk in god knows what part of the map. This means if I want gear, I'll have to make it myself. The other option is to spend huge amounts of time shouting through towns or spamming our singular chat channel for the things I want. I'll quit any game of any type, regardless of its other qualities, before I do this.

If I could place an order for crafted gear, I'd sell every gizmo I get in my travels and just buy the stuff---even with a near fully developed crafter in my stable, I probably wouldn't use it, outside of piddly low level XPing gear. I can't help but think there are others that would do the same.

spoqster

ESO needs crafting orders

Rodario wrote: »

I agree with the principle, I just don't know how much it will be used in a game where everyone can make everything for themselves. I think I've only seen one "looking for crafted item" request in chat since about a month after release.

Also, knowing ZOS, if this is ever implemented those NPCs will probably have to be won in a blind bid and around a hundred will be spread across Tamriel.

I doubt that all players are crafters in all professions. Covering all professions usually requires leveling alts (very expensive timewise) or otherwise a lot of dedication towards crafting as opposed to other skill lines.

The real question to me is if it is not the other way around, and players are self-sufficient because there is no elegant system in place for crafting orders.

A good example is Alchemy. There are not so many potions, so it is fairly easy to find a stack of the desired potion in a guild store or simply ask a guild mate to swap them for a stack of ingredients. Then you have 100 potions and those will last for quite some time. Because this system works, I don't see a need to become an Alchemist myself and I like it that way.

As a tank I only need shields from the woodworking tree and I can enchant them myself. I would much rather place an order for a specific shield every once in a while (without having to ask for favors) than to spen 10 skill points in that line.

Zorrashi

ESO needs crafting orders

I could certain live without it, but it is a very appealing idea. A very very appealing idea. I imagine some details will have to be iron out, but if properly implemented it could add a a lot of enjoyability to the game.

Rune_Relic

ESO needs crafting orders

Like. Sounds good to me as another option that adds to the game

Chuggernaut

ESO needs crafting orders

The only thing I'd add would be that the crafter has 48 to fill the order or it goes back to the posting board.

Elridge

ESO needs crafting orders

I wouldn't say "need" but would be a really nice addition to crafting. I actually have crafting orders on my guilds website, which my guildmates make use of fairly often, however that only works for people in very active guilds with active guild sites.

Doskias

This is something that should be implemented with a housing system. You could visit a crafter's house and view their "hireling" npc inside the home that will open up a menu that you can customize your gear and it would give you a price and confirm just as if it was a crafting station. The crafter would be able to set the cost of each material used in their own menu. That way the buyer could go to different crafters to compare prices or go to their favorite crafter even when they are not online. This is how I would envision this type of process. So basically the crafter has their own crafting station in their housing. To offset the advantages for the crafter. It could cost the crafter so much gold each month to hire that hireling or a 5% tax to the system on each item. The housing would have a storage for the crafter to deposit materials to be used for his shop. I think this would be the best way to implement this type of feature.

spoqster

ESO needs crafting orders

Chuggernaut wrote: »

The only thing I'd add would be that the crafter has 48 to fill the order or it goes back to the posting board.

Or maybe even much less, more like 2 hours in my opinion. And in addition to the order going back up, the crafter should be penalized.

But all in all there are several details to be considered. This poll is mainly about getting feedback on the general idea.

spoqster

ESO needs crafting orders

Doskias wrote: »

This is something that should be implemented with a housing system. You could visit a crafter's house and view their "hireling" npc inside the home that will open up a menu that you can customize your gear and it would give you a price and confirm just as if it was a crafting station. The crafter would be able to set the cost of each material used in their own menu. That way the buyer could go to different crafters to compare prices or go to their favorite crafter even when they are not online. This is how I would envision this type of process. So basically the crafter has their own crafting station in their housing. To offset the advantages for the crafter. It could cost the crafter so much gold each month to hire that hireling or a 5% tax to the system on each item. The housing would have a storage for the crafter to deposit materials to be used for his shop. I think this would be the best way to implement this type of feature.

I like the idea, but I still don't know how you would put 500k houses in the world. Sounds like a load of work. Not that the cities wouldn't look nice then.

Instanced houses would also be a bit harsh. Imagine walking into your house with 200 other people who are walking into their house at the same time.

Guild halls would be nice and that might still fulfill your vision.

But I would be content if they anchored the functionality to existing npcs.

AreoHotah

I don't mind either way, I wouldn't use them

How about the trolls giving an order for an item and not paying after. You loose mats??

spoqster

ESO needs crafting orders

AreoHotah wrote: »

How about the trolls giving an order for an item and not paying after. You loose mats??

In the system I envision, you'd have to pay upon placing the order and you only get your money back if no one picks up the order before the listing time runs out.

starkerealm

ESO needs crafting orders

AreoHotah wrote: »

How about the trolls giving an order for an item and not paying after. You loose mats??

One possibility would be to post the item up there, and it sticks for 4 hours. You pay the price once, on listing the item. As a crafter, you go and pull down a tag, and can go craft the piece in the next 10 minutes, you can, for sure, sell it to the person offering it. Once the contract has been satisfied, it folds up, but if you already pulled a tag, you can still go back and turn in the item for cash, it's just not coming from the player...

This could lead to a gold dupe exploit, though.

Another option would be you, as a crafter, list yourself on the board, with customizable rates. So, the recipient basically gets a crafting screen like yours in configuring the item.

You set prices for things like if there's a surcharge for the divine trait, how much extra you charge to produce a green, blue, purple, or gold item. What your rates are on a given craftable set... then they dig through, configure the item they want, see the price you're asking, and then commission the contract with you. When you finish it, you turn it in at the board for the commission, and maybe some other bonus.

Rune_Relic

ESO needs crafting orders

Agreed you would have to tag the item to notify everyone else you accepted it. Then have a 1hour window to fulfil the order or have your tag removed. You can only tag each item once.

1. This way you cant be trolled or griefed by someone repeatedly tagging an order with no intention of completion.
2. You also have a timeout to make sure that order is fulfilled promptly or at least in a reasonable time.
3. The craftsman wont get gazumped by someone stealing an order they just spent a fortune in materials crafting.
4. The gold is removed from the buyer account (held in anticipation of sale) as part of the contract and returned if unfulfilled within 24 hours.

The buyer will notify what gear they want and how much they will pay. If the pay is crap no one will accept the order. You can of course whisper the buyer on how much you would have made such a set for. So buyer needs an ability to edit the pay or delete the order and create a new one. Unfulled orders should be removed after 24 hours to prevent a trash mountain of orders doing nothing. There would have to be a limit on how many orders a person can raise at any time to stop people trying to crash the system.

There doesn't even have to be any comms between buyer/crafter. The buyer could log these orders at a crafting station (requested build rather than actual buidl) and a crafter could accept these orders at a crafting station (auto-craft if you have the mats/knowledge). No reason why those two crafting stations couldn't be on the other side of tamriel.

[edit: added further thoughts..]