How come i stack Magic buffs but no night silence ???

indigoblades

With Seducer and other magicka bonus armors, I can stack magicka regin and spell reduction enough to spam anything as fast as cooldown. ................ Thats pretty OP in my opinion but stacking sneak speed for vamp with night silence is out of balance ???? That makes no sense, its an out of combat skill, yet i can stack other things that give me huge PVP in combat advantages ..... I really dont think they have a clue. People asked if the stacking was ok when night silence was released on PTS in 1.3 and Zos said it was working as intended and now they nerf it.

Arsenic_Touch

Because zenimax has a habit of making kneejerk changes to whining on the forums. Notice how every single discussion about the change was ignored by them and the change went ahead anyway? that's how they roll. they flip flopped and are hiding behind the change instead of coming out and admitting things.

If they were actually being consistent, they would stop the stacking of a lot of things.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

because ZOS devs are[Snip], and they've given up on making meaningful content, and have resorted to trolling the majority of us.

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Rude and Insulting comments]

indigoblades

smeeprocketnub19_ESO wrote: »

because ZOS devs are jerks, and they've given up on making meaningful content, and have resorted to trolling the majority of us.

That is what bugs me most ... either there is no leadership plan in there changes or the marketing dept is running the show.

When i started this game i bought 3 games and had 3 accounts .... i hoped to get friends relatives too play... none did, they either like Wow too much or a TES mmo was not for them. Anyway i gladly paid my $45/month because i believed this game would evolve into a fun game .... The last time they nerfed & changed things only based on illogical forem post i canceled an account. Today i am canceling an account and i am only logging in too craft.

Not sure why this makes me so mad, sneak isn't even important to me for in game combat........... my main is a sorc and if they stopped letting me stack Mag. regin and spell reduction it would hurt my toon 1000% more than not letting me stack sneak speed. But at least i would believe that was done for a reason (to balance the game).

jaebdub

Because sneaking at speeds faster than a horse doesn't make sense.

drogon1

Balance...look it up.

dharbert

All of these sweet, yummy tears because you can no longer crawl at 30 miles per hour

indigoblades

jaebdub wrote: »

Because sneaking at speeds faster than a horse doesn't make sense.

dharbert wrote: »

All of these sweet, yummy tears because you can no longer crawl at 30 miles per hour

..... any toon can sprint faster than barely upgraded horses. ... if i am going 30 mph, how come i can never find horses slow enough to out race with my OP sneak skills, those horses must be going 50 mph ..... now i can pass them if start bolt escaping tho .... 2 bolt escapes ... recover some magicka trading for health, more bolt escapes............ Oh i can do this because my magicka regin & spell reductions all stack.

Amarynth

jaebdub wrote: »

Because sneaking at speeds faster than a horse doesn't make sense.

I don't use Night's Silence, so I don't have a dog in this fight, but who says that anything a vampire can do has to "make sense"? Very little in the game actually "makes sense."

jaebdub

indigoblades wrote: »

jaebdub wrote: »

Because sneaking at speeds faster than a horse doesn't make sense.

dharbert wrote: »

All of these sweet, yummy tears because you can no longer crawl at 30 miles per hour

..... any toon can sprint faster than barely upgraded horses. ... if i am going 30 mph, how come i can never find horses slow enough to out race with my OP sneak skills, those horses must be going 50 mph ..... now i can pass them if start bolt escaping tho .... 2 bolt escapes ... recover some magicka trading for health, more bolt escapes............ Oh i can do this because my magicka regin & spell reductions all stack.

But you aren't invisible while bolt escaping

dmarkle70b14_ESO

I am not a vamp. I don't PVP and I use Night's Silence set purely for the 60% movement bonus to sneak speed.. now the tool tip does not say that and the bonus is gone. All because of skirt wearing, stick holding sparkly vamps. Another great PVE game going to crap because of crybaby PVPers. Might be time to move on..the writings on the wall.

Stx

Iv'e already tried arguing with the pro Night's Silence people about this, but all they are interested in doing is complaining about the change and do not want any meaningful discussion.

The change happened, no more stealth faster than sprinting, faster than most horses. Get over it.

I can't believe how big of a deal some players are making about this. There are SOOO many larger issues in the game right now.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

dmarkle70b14_ESO wrote: »

I am not a vamp. I don't PVP and I use Night's Silence set purely for the 60% movement bonus to sneak speed.. now the tool tip does not say that and the bonus is gone. All because of skirt wearing, stick holding sparkly vamps. Another great PVE game going to crap because of crybaby PVPers. Might be time to move on..the writings on the wall.

no you are just unreachable as you bolt off endlessly into the distance and laugh at anyone who would chase you.

But that is totally realistic, and makes tons of sense.

elwhy

Stx wrote: »

Iv'e already tried arguing with the pro Night's Silence people about this, but all they are interested in doing is complaining about the change and do not want any meaningful discussion.

The change happened, no more stealth faster than sprinting, faster than most horses. Get over it.

I can't believe how big of a deal some players are making about this. There are SOOO many larger issues in the game right now.

I think it's more of a pain because ZoS said that this was okay the way it worked, and pretty much everything else can stack, but then people were pissed vamps could sneak fast so ZoS went back on their word and changed it. The thing is, vamps are supernatural, they're supposed to be different and in most lore/stories vamps are crazy fast, and probably faster than horses to be honest. Growing up reading stories about vampires, before all the shiny and popular b.s., I was legitimately scared of them because they were so sneaky, fast, and wanted to suck my blood. So how is sneaking fast an issue?

And it's not a big deal, that's another point. ZoS decided to spend time on listening to whiners about how fast people could sneak and then waste more time going back on their intended change, instead of dedicating time to fix actual problems. There really are so many bigger issues, but they decide to focus on this? It made no sense.

Stx

Do you really think the reason they changed the set was because of the extremely small portion of the playerbase that actually uses the forums had another smaller portion that complained about it? Really?

dgoss11b14_ESO

It's quite possible to alter skill effectiveness in pvp while not altering its effectiveness in pve. Perhaps the devs should consider that possibility...

jaebdub

dgoss11b14_ESO wrote: »

It's quite possible to alter skill effectiveness in pvp while not altering its effectiveness in pve. Perhaps the devs should consider that possibility...

Ride a horse like the rest of us to do your travelling.

AlnilamE

dmarkle70b14_ESO wrote: »

I am not a vamp. I don't PVP and I use Night's Silence set purely for the 60% movement bonus to sneak speed.. now the tool tip does not say that and the bonus is gone. All because of skirt wearing, stick holding sparkly vamps. Another great PVE game going to crap because of crybaby PVPers. Might be time to move on..the writings on the wall.

If you are not a vamp, what are you trying to stack the Night's Silence bonus with? If that was your only sneak buff, then it should still be there and it is a bug.

dharbert

Stx wrote: »

Do you really think the reason they changed the set was because of the extremely small portion of the playerbase that actually uses the forums had another smaller portion that complained about it? Really?

^ This exactly. The players that use the forums on a daily basis represent an EXTREMELY small number of the total player base. Zenimax made the change because it needed it, not because of 30 or so players on this forum.

It's done. Get over it.

elwhy

Stx wrote: »

Do you really think the reason they changed the set was because of the extremely small portion of the playerbase that actually uses the forums had another smaller portion that complained about it? Really?

People like to think they're being listened to, but we're probably not. And okay, let's say ZoS did it on their own. Why didn't they own up to it (because they did verify that it was working as intended when released) and at least apologize for misleading people? And tell us that for no reason at all they've decided it's okay to stack other bonuses like magic, weapon damage, crit %, etc. but it's not okay to stack speed bonuses.

Just saying, it'd be nice to think they care.

indigoblades

My que

Stx wrote: »

Iv'e already tried arguing with the pro Night's Silence people about this, but all they are interested in doing is complaining about the change and do not want any meaningful discussion.

The change happened, no more stealth faster than sprinting, faster than most horses. Get over it.

I can't believe how big of a deal some players are making about this. There are SOOO many larger issues in the game right now.

My question is why you cared to argue... someone else's sneak speed doesn't effect u when just about any horse can outrun it. .... it was armor that effected nothing, i can still bolt escape way faster than a horse and sustain a very long time with equalbrium and stacked spell reductions.

ExiledKhallisi

ZOS real goal is making money.

Being able to run around super fast questing removes a time sink. Time sinks are valuable to companies like ZOS who dont care about the players but care about making money. They need time sinks to keep people playing longer.

jaebdub

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

ZOS real goal is making money.

Being able to run around super fast questing removes a time sink. Time sinks are valuable to companies like ZOS who dont care about the players but care about making money. They need time sinks to keep people playing longer.

LOL

Or it was just broken

eNumbra

Outrunning horses -

You couldn't out run speed specced horses with Dark Stalker and Night's Silence; that was an outright lie. If you added Retreating Maneuvers you could manage the feat but otherwise all of the "faster than a horse" garbage was just that. With the right sets and bonuses you can sprint faster than a normal/unupgraded horse as well, shall that be changed?

Making "sense" -

It's a game with magic, dragons, undead, giant insects, ogres, trolls, werewolves, vampires, hurr-durr "SENSE". Vampires have historically in ES and other lore, been faster, stealthier and more agile than mortals. This can be represented one of two ways. A massive stealth bonus(anyone who remembers Oblivion and Skyrim specifically knows how game breaking unbreakable stealth is) or with a boosted movement speed in sneak.

Balance -

Only worked out of combat. Try again.

Zenimax's intentions -

This came about on the PTS, it was relayed to the devs several times that DS and NS were stacking, creating some superior sneaking speeds; each time they replied that it was working as intended. Zenimax did later flip flop.



There was zero reasoning in support of this change.

MornaBaine

Just tested this on my vamp and my Night's Silence set is now COMPLETELY USELESS. Can I at least get my fraking mats back ZoS??????? I paid a boatload to have that set made and now there is ZERO point in having it. Thanks you guys! /sarcasm

indigoblades

ExiledKhallisi wrote: »

ZOS real goal is making money.

Being able to run around super fast questing removes a time sink. Time sinks are valuable to companies like ZOS who dont care about the players but care about making money. They need time sinks to keep people playing longer.

Well for me 90% of this game is boring trudgery ... collecting mats or juggling my inventory or logging in for hirelings .... or try too decipher what sold in my descriptionless mailing.... if fast sneaking made questing and mat gathering less painful it made me happy .... now i am bored, and feel this will get worse and worse each update.

indigoblades

eliasadriancombsub17_ESO wrote: »

Stx wrote: »

Do you really think the reason they changed the set was because of the extremely small portion of the playerbase that actually uses the forums had another smaller portion that complained about it? Really?

People like to think they're being listened to, but we're probably not. And okay, let's say ZoS did it on their own. Why didn't they own up to it (because they did verify that it was working as intended when released) and at least apologize for misleading people? And tell us that for no reason at all they've decided it's okay to stack other bonuses like magic, weapon damage, crit %, etc. but it's not okay to stack speed bonuses.

Just saying, it'd be nice to think they care.

If they at least said we need to change this for future content i would understand. ... i feel no one is running the show, i have ZERO confidence in any thing i do in this game now. Its not just this nerf, this is just the one that broke the camels back.

Arsenic_Touch

eNumbra wrote: »

Outrunning horses -

You couldn't out run speed specced horses with Dark Stalker and Night's Silence; that was an outright lie. If you added Retreating Maneuvers you could manage the feat but otherwise all of the "faster than a horse" garbage was just that. With the right sets and bonuses you can sprint faster than a normal/unupgraded horse as well, shall that be changed?

Ding ding ding, we have a winner. Despite the extensive testing that has shown this time and time again, people continue to spread misinformation about and even the patch notes themselves reflect this misinformation.

Like I said before, they flip flopped and are hiding behind it now. They didn't chime on a single discussion thread pertaining to it after they announced the ridiculous change.

And yes we can say that the whining on the forum is the reason for the change because they outright said it was okay and then turn around after the whining and announce that they're changing it? clearly it was because of the guy in accounting stubbed his toe and started yelling about it and not the repeat of kneejerk changes that they're continuing to make.

Emeliana

I'm glad they corrected the light-speed sneak only Vampires could fully utilize, as it gave unfair advantages like outrun a medium speedleveled horse while sneaking.

Apart from the upper hand they got in PvP, this could also be used in another way. I was going to gather some crafting mats in an area but found all nodes empty. Waiting for respawns that didn't happen, I started to wonder if invisible bots were back in game. Then after some time I caught a glimpse of someone going out of stealth at a few nodes. I realized I had no chance getting any mats even using my horse. That player almost teleported from one node to the next, likely to be a Vampire with Night Silence Armor. After this occasion, I've seen it being used by others too on other maps.

QQ:ers here on forum were defending it heavily, saying that "90% of the playerbase will unsub if this goes live." If it was that important to keep, I guess that speed-sneak had more uses than what I've understood...

indigoblades

Emeliana wrote: »

I'm glad they corrected the light-speed sneak only Vampires could fully utilize, as it gave unfair advantages like outrun a medium speedleveled horse while sneaking.

Apart from the upper hand they got in PvP, this could also be used in another way. I was going to gather some crafting mats in an area but found all nodes empty. Waiting for respawns that didn't happen, I started to wonder if invisible bots were back in game. Then after some time I caught a glimpse of someone going out of stealth at a few nodes. I realized I had no chance getting any mats even using my horse. That player almost teleported from one node to the next, likely to be a Vampire with Night Silence Armor. After this occasion, I've seen it being used by others too on other maps.

QQ:ers here on forum were defending it heavily, saying that "90% of the playerbase will unsub if this goes live." If it was that important to keep, I guess that speed-sneak had more uses than what I've understood...

FALSE STATEMENT: "as it gave unfair advantages like outrun amedium speedleveled horse" as has been said and tested by many, it can ONLY outrun the slowest of horses which are rare. I can out run much faster horses with bolt escape.

Unless i unsub, with all my magika stacking & bolt escape i will get the resource node way faster than any horse with my bolt escape .... it was more fun to sneak tho.

naatokb14_ESO

Here's my take on this:

1. The same people I noticed complaining endlessly about vampire+night's silence/shadow dancer sets stacks are the same who complain about playable vampires in game. They are the same that complain about bat swarm being too OP (it once was when it was possible for one vamp to stack multiple swarms, but that was CLEARLY not working as intended, and fixed fairly early on). They are the same people arguing against cosmetic changes for vampire characters.

2. Many of these same accounts here on the forums seem to have no problems whatsoever with the RIDICULOUSLY OP -(meaning it actually affects outcomes in competitive play between players which makes some reasonable character builds completely obsolete)- light armor/staff magicka bonus set stacking that gives mages and templars using theses builds+sets incredible advantage over other classes or the same classes not using those specific (TWINK) builds+sets.

3. ZOS did NOTHING to undo those stacking bonuses. I can only assume that is because half the fracking player base would unsub if they did.

I'm done with World of Warcraft losers destroying every other MMO out there with their endless, inane whining and complaining about how somebody ELSE is getting over on them. If you can't L2P without destroying somebody else's LEGITIMATE enjoyment of the game, then maybe you should go back to WOW or to made for console 'street fighter' type games and stay away from MMORPGs!