What do you think of Animation Canceling?

Circuitous

Animation Canceling refers to the ability to cancel an attack into a skill, and canceling skills with attacks, blocking, or shield bashing.

This thread is not intended to be an outlet for suggestions against animation canceling, an excuse to yell at "macro users," or anything remotely resembling a measure of epeen. I just want to know how the community feels about Animation Canceling in general. Thank you.

Circuitous

I like the system, and think it adds depth to combat system. I wouldn't want to see it removed.

Can't edit the poll's description due to requiring a category, that's not helpful. Anyway, please make sure you read every option before making your choice, and pick the one that most closely mirrors your opinion. Thank you.

Nox_Aeterna

I'm completely neutral about the system, but I don't use it myself.

Only macro i use and care about is the wykkyd outfitter skills one so that i can quickly change my skills before delivering a quest.

Helps lvling the right skills i want , without having to bother using them in battle.

grimjim398

I like the system, and think it adds depth to combat system. I wouldn't want to see it removed.

Too many choices.

Circuitous

I like the system, and think it adds depth to combat system. I wouldn't want to see it removed.

This has nothing to do with macros. I don't use macros for any purpose and still make use of animation canceling on a regular basis. Please do not confuse animation canceling with macros.

While it's technically true that macros could be set up for animation canceling, macros do not adequately compensate for lag and the system is easy enough to use that they simply aren't necessary in the first place.

grimjim398 wrote: »

Too many choices.

You may be right, but I wanted to know how people felt and why without mandating that people comment.

Drazhar14

I dislike the system, and just think the game would be better without it.

Magic users can keep block held down while casting abilities. They can be immune to CC and take reduced damage while doing DPS because of this, which should not be possible. It doesn't make sense, and its just another reason why stamina builds are inferior to magic builds.

When holding block, they player should not be allowed to use any abilities until block is released. Damage checks should also be done when an animation is finished, not when it's started. That should help fix the animation cancelling problem. Its also really silly how you can start charging a heavy attack, move well out of range of the enemy, and still hit them, because you started charging while they were within range...

JLB

I dislike the system, and just think the game would be better without it.

Good amount of choices. Definitely needs to be removed, at least from Destro staves. I guess it feels "deep" to be able to throw 700+ heavy attacks at the speed of a light attacks.

Aeratus

I like the system, and think it adds depth to combat system. I wouldn't want to see it removed.

Animation cancelling is nothing new to MMO games. It is in fact a common part of many games and many game genres, I don't see what's wrong with it.

Drazhar14 wrote: »

Magic users can keep block held down while casting abilities. They can be immune to CC and take reduced damage while doing DPS because of this, which should not be possible. It doesn't make sense, and its just another reason why stamina builds are inferior to magic builds.

No, stamina users have plenty of instant-attack skills, such as poison arrow. This issue has nothing to do with magicka vs. stamina.

Circuitous

I like the system, and think it adds depth to combat system. I wouldn't want to see it removed.

Drazhar14 wrote: »

Magic users can keep block held down while casting abilities. They can be immune to CC and take reduced damage while doing DPS because of this, which should not be possible. It doesn't make sense, and its just another reason why stamina builds are inferior to magic builds.

When holding block, they player should not be allowed to use any abilities until block is released. Damage checks should also be done when an animation is finished, not when it's started. That should help fix the animation cancelling problem. Its also really silly how you can start charging a heavy attack, move well out of range of the enemy, and still hit them, because you started charging while they were within range...

Any class can attack from block, not just magic users. They're also not blocking while the animation happens. This is a non-issue.

Damage checks are done at the instant the skill is intended to hit - this is their cast time. Some skills have additional animation beyond the cast time after the damage check happens, and this is what you can cancel with blocking.

And furthermore, heavy attacks have substantially longer range than light attacks with melee weapons. This is intentional, and has nothing to do with what range you started charging at. Nor does it have anything to do with animation canceling.

JLB wrote: »

Good amount of choices. Definitely needs to be removed, at least from Destro staves. I guess it feels "deep" to be able to throw 700+ heavy attacks at the speed of a light attacks.

Animation canceling doesn't let you do power attacks as fast as light attacks. It just doesn't. It does let you release the power attack sooner, but that's as long as the power attack needs to charge to fire in the first place. You could simply let go of the button earlier and still get it that fast, you don't even need to cancel it with a skill.

Nox_Aeterna

I'm completely neutral about the system, but I don't use it myself.

Circuitous wrote: »

This has nothing to do with macros. I don't use macros for any purpose and still make use of animation canceling on a regular basis. Please do not confuse animation canceling with macros.

While it's technically true that macros could be set up for animation canceling, macros do not adequately compensate for lag and the system is easy enough to use that they simply aren't necessary in the first place.

I dont see many complaining about the pure thing , then again , one cant say if the other person is using a macro or not for sure. People seem to just toss them both together.

With this said , i can understand what you mean, still my choice in the pool would not have changed.

Circuitous

I like the system, and think it adds depth to combat system. I wouldn't want to see it removed.

Nox_Aeterna wrote: »

Circuitous wrote: »

This has nothing to do with macros. I don't use macros for any purpose and still make use of animation canceling on a regular basis. Please do not confuse animation canceling with macros.

While it's technically true that macros could be set up for animation canceling, macros do not adequately compensate for lag and the system is easy enough to use that they simply aren't necessary in the first place.

I dont see many complaining about the pure thing , then again , one cant say if the other person is using a macro or not for sure. People seem to just toss them both together.

With this said , i can understand what you mean, still my choice in the pool would not have changed.

Honestly, people attribute it to macros so they have something to blame. I genuinely doubt anyone actually uses macros for animation canceling, except maybe perfect stealth opener snipes, but even then these are easily done by hand, and doing so allows you to more readily compensate for lag or changing conditions.

This system is not difficult enough that macros would ever be necessary.

zdkazz

I dislike the system, and just think the game would be better without it.

considering it is unintended, and its cheep, allowing you to block and push dps all at once, I really dont like it, you shouldnt be able to push the best dps and also be defensive at the same time... its not an exploit but no one should relly on unitended features, if they should remove it, or make it so that one cancles the others effects, like while casting block cannot be held, and if you block mid attack no dmmg is done.
SCORCE:

Circuitous

I like the system, and think it adds depth to combat system. I wouldn't want to see it removed.

zdkazz wrote: »

considering it is unintended, and its cheep, allowing you to block and push dps all at once, I really dont like it, you shouldnt be able to push the best dps and also be defensive at the same time...
SCORCE:

I'll be straight with you: there is absolutely no way this system is unintended. Devs were making use of it in PTS PvP events. Cast time and animation time are acknowledged as separate things.

Whether it's intended to allow higher DPS output, as opposed to allowing you to make defensive choices while attacking (like interrupting an opponent during a channeled spell), that is up for debate. But the system itself is clearly intentional.

moXrox

I dislike the system, and think it contributes to macro abuse and cheating that hurts the game.

I dont use animation canceling purposely and think that this is just an issue which should be fixed because it can have an advantage against other players. Maybe it can be used with a macro, which is even worse.

If you play just normal there is no animation canceling, only sometimes per accident.
Animation Canceling does not add deeper combat gameplay....thats nonsens.
It is an exploit and a certain crowd will defend it....

zdkazz

I dislike the system, and just think the game would be better without it.

Circuitous wrote: »

zdkazz wrote: »

considering it is unintended, and its cheep, allowing you to block and push dps all at once, I really dont like it, you shouldnt be able to push the best dps and also be defensive at the same time...
SCORCE:

I'll be straight with you: there is absolutely no way this system is unintended. Devs were making use of it in PTS PvP events. Cast time and animation time are acknowledged as separate things.

Whether it's intended to allow higher DPS output, as opposed to allowing you to make defensive choices while attacking (like interrupting an opponent during a channeled spell), that is up for debate. But the system itself is clearly intentional.

sorry about my sorce pic not poping up at first i fixed it lol, but if you look the devs have said its unintentional severtimes,

Circuitous

I like the system, and think it adds depth to combat system. I wouldn't want to see it removed.

zdkazz wrote: »

Circuitous wrote: »

zdkazz wrote: »

considering it is unintended, and its cheep, allowing you to block and push dps all at once, I really dont like it, you shouldnt be able to push the best dps and also be defensive at the same time...
SCORCE:

I'll be straight with you: there is absolutely no way this system is unintended. Devs were making use of it in PTS PvP events. Cast time and animation time are acknowledged as separate things.

Whether it's intended to allow higher DPS output, as opposed to allowing you to make defensive choices while attacking (like interrupting an opponent during a channeled spell), that is up for debate. But the system itself is clearly intentional.

sorry about my sorce pic not poping up at first i fixed it lol, but if you look the devs have said its unintentional severtimes,

The question was phrased around using it to maximize DPS. The response of "Not exactly intended, but not an exploit" makes me think the system itself is intended, but that particular usage of it isn't. Which is pretty much what I was getting at in my previous post.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

I'm completely neutral about the system, but I use it myself.

Drazhar14 wrote: »

Magic users can keep block held down while casting abilities. They can be immune to CC and take reduced damage while doing DPS because of this, which should not be possible. It doesn't make sense, and its just another reason why stamina builds are inferior to magic builds.

When holding block, they player should not be allowed to use any abilities until block is released. Damage checks should also be done when an animation is finished, not when it's started. That should help fix the animation cancelling problem. Its also really silly how you can start charging a heavy attack, move well out of range of the enemy, and still hit them, because you started charging while they were within range...

umm you can do this with stamina abilities also. It has nothing to do with whether the ability is stamina or magicka. There are even channeled stamina abilities this is especially true for such as flurry.

zdkazz

I dislike the system, and just think the game would be better without it.

heres @ZOS_JessicaFolsom on the matter of attack cancling and how it was indeed unintended, not an exploit but it is indeed unintended.

nerevarine1138

Circuitous wrote: »

zdkazz wrote: »

Circuitous wrote: »

zdkazz wrote: »

considering it is unintended, and its cheep, allowing you to block and push dps all at once, I really dont like it, you shouldnt be able to push the best dps and also be defensive at the same time...
SCORCE:

I'll be straight with you: there is absolutely no way this system is unintended. Devs were making use of it in PTS PvP events. Cast time and animation time are acknowledged as separate things.

Whether it's intended to allow higher DPS output, as opposed to allowing you to make defensive choices while attacking (like interrupting an opponent during a channeled spell), that is up for debate. But the system itself is clearly intentional.

sorry about my sorce pic not poping up at first i fixed it lol, but if you look the devs have said its unintentional severtimes,

The question was phrased around using it to maximize DPS. The response of "Not exactly intended, but not an exploit" makes me think the system itself is intended, but that particular usage of it isn't. Which is pretty much what I was getting at in my previous post.

It actually more implies that the system wasn't intended, but that it's a natural consequence of the way the combat system has been programmed. They certainly didn't intend "weaving" or animation-cancelling as a mechanic, because it's ridiculous. It's using computing limitations as a bonus to your attack. There's no way any developer would ever intend for that to be a combat mechanic.

That said, it sounds like it would be too hard to fix it, so it's in for now.

Aeratus

I like the system, and think it adds depth to combat system. I wouldn't want to see it removed.

zdkazz wrote: »

Circuitous wrote: »

zdkazz wrote: »

considering it is unintended, and its cheep, allowing you to block and push dps all at once, I really dont like it, you shouldnt be able to push the best dps and also be defensive at the same time...
SCORCE:

I'll be straight with you: there is absolutely no way this system is unintended. Devs were making use of it in PTS PvP events. Cast time and animation time are acknowledged as separate things.

Whether it's intended to allow higher DPS output, as opposed to allowing you to make defensive choices while attacking (like interrupting an opponent during a channeled spell), that is up for debate. But the system itself is clearly intentional.

sorry about my sorce pic not poping up at first i fixed it lol, but if you look the devs have said its unintentional severtimes,

The developers clearly designed the game such that there is a system of priority, where skill attacks have priority (and thus cancels) over light/heavy attacks, and block has priority (and thus cancels) skill attacks.

What Jessica said was "unexpected" is not this cancellation system itself, but the consequence of this system being a necessary element for competitive play (i.e., in order to maximize DPS as clearly asked by that user).

Please don't take Jessica's quote out of context.

Circuitous

I like the system, and think it adds depth to combat system. I wouldn't want to see it removed.

nerevarine1138 wrote: »

Circuitous wrote: »

zdkazz wrote: »

Circuitous wrote: »

zdkazz wrote: »

considering it is unintended, and its cheep, allowing you to block and push dps all at once, I really dont like it, you shouldnt be able to push the best dps and also be defensive at the same time...
SCORCE:

I'll be straight with you: there is absolutely no way this system is unintended. Devs were making use of it in PTS PvP events. Cast time and animation time are acknowledged as separate things.

Whether it's intended to allow higher DPS output, as opposed to allowing you to make defensive choices while attacking (like interrupting an opponent during a channeled spell), that is up for debate. But the system itself is clearly intentional.

sorry about my sorce pic not poping up at first i fixed it lol, but if you look the devs have said its unintentional severtimes,

The question was phrased around using it to maximize DPS. The response of "Not exactly intended, but not an exploit" makes me think the system itself is intended, but that particular usage of it isn't. Which is pretty much what I was getting at in my previous post.

It actually more implies that the system wasn't intended, but that it's a natural consequence of the way the combat system has been programmed. They certainly didn't intend "weaving" or animation-cancelling as a mechanic, because it's ridiculous. It's using computing limitations as a bonus to your attack. There's no way any developer would ever intend for that to be a combat mechanic.

That said, it sounds like it would be too hard to fix it, so it's in for now.

If they programmed it to allow blocks, bashes, and skills to trump post-attack animations, how is that not intended? That's an intentional decision they made. There are even varying degrees of it, where you can cancel attacks into skills and skills into block, but not skills into other skills.

It's like saying canceling a normal attack into a special move in Street Fighter isn't intended.

zdkazz

I dislike the system, and just think the game would be better without it.

Circuitous wrote: »

zdkazz wrote: »

Circuitous wrote: »

zdkazz wrote: »

considering it is unintended, and its cheep, allowing you to block and push dps all at once, I really dont like it, you shouldnt be able to push the best dps and also be defensive at the same time...
SCORCE:

I'll be straight with you: there is absolutely no way this system is unintended. Devs were making use of it in PTS PvP events. Cast time and animation time are acknowledged as separate things.

Whether it's intended to allow higher DPS output, as opposed to allowing you to make defensive choices while attacking (like interrupting an opponent during a channeled spell), that is up for debate. But the system itself is clearly intentional.

sorry about my sorce pic not poping up at first i fixed it lol, but if you look the devs have said its unintentional severtimes,

The question was phrased around using it to maximize DPS. The response of "Not exactly intended, but not an exploit" makes me think the system itself is intended, but that particular usage of it isn't. Which is pretty much what I was getting at in my previous post.

see in my book using an "unintended feature" to your advantage is walking a very fine line between cheating and not, id even say it is having your pinky toe on the cheating side.

Drazhar14

I dislike the system, and just think the game would be better without it.

Actually, characters do keep blocking while the animation happens if block was held before the ability was pressed. Only abilities that have cast time stop the block. If you get an addon that displays player buffs, the one for block (brace) can be up 100% of the time while using instant cast abilities. Since magic users don't use stamina, then can keep block up much longer while using their magic for offensive. If a stamina user tries this, their stamina will be depleted very fast from trying to be offensive and defensive with the same resource.

As for heavy attacks having longer range, I do not think 10+ meters should be possible for a sword swing. Test it out. Activate a speed buff, start charging a heavy attack beside a neutral creature, and run away while it is charging. No matter where you are, the attack will still land. NPC's can do the same thing. You can sprint by them on a horse and they will start charging a heavy attack. You can be 20 meters away when they finish charging and swing, and the attack will still hit you.

But back to animation cancelling. Having the block buff on yourself should prevent you from casting abilities until it is released, and players should not be allowed to gain the block buff until animations are finished playing.

zdkazz

I dislike the system, and just think the game would be better without it.

Aeratus wrote: »

zdkazz wrote: »

Circuitous wrote: »

zdkazz wrote: »

considering it is unintended, and its cheep, allowing you to block and push dps all at once, I really dont like it, you shouldnt be able to push the best dps and also be defensive at the same time...
SCORCE:

I'll be straight with you: there is absolutely no way this system is unintended. Devs were making use of it in PTS PvP events. Cast time and animation time are acknowledged as separate things.

Whether it's intended to allow higher DPS output, as opposed to allowing you to make defensive choices while attacking (like interrupting an opponent during a channeled spell), that is up for debate. But the system itself is clearly intentional.

sorry about my sorce pic not poping up at first i fixed it lol, but if you look the devs have said its unintentional severtimes,

The developers clearly designed the game such that there is a system of priority, where skill attacks have priority (and thus cancels) over light/heavy attacks, and block has priority (and thus cancels) skill attacks.

What Jessica said was "unexpected" is not this cancellation system itself, but the consequence of this system being a necessary element for competitive play (i.e., in order to maximize DPS as clearly asked by that user).

Please don't take Jessica's quote out of context.

it wasnt out of context, that was the entirety of the conversation, a person asked the question if an attack animation cancling was intended and that was her one and only response on the topic, there was no part of the conversation left out, that was the conversation.

Aeratus

I like the system, and think it adds depth to combat system. I wouldn't want to see it removed.

zdkazz wrote: »

Circuitous wrote: »

zdkazz wrote: »

Circuitous wrote: »

zdkazz wrote: »

considering it is unintended, and its cheep, allowing you to block and push dps all at once, I really dont like it, you shouldnt be able to push the best dps and also be defensive at the same time...
SCORCE:

I'll be straight with you: there is absolutely no way this system is unintended. Devs were making use of it in PTS PvP events. Cast time and animation time are acknowledged as separate things.

Whether it's intended to allow higher DPS output, as opposed to allowing you to make defensive choices while attacking (like interrupting an opponent during a channeled spell), that is up for debate. But the system itself is clearly intentional.

sorry about my sorce pic not poping up at first i fixed it lol, but if you look the devs have said its unintentional severtimes,

The question was phrased around using it to maximize DPS. The response of "Not exactly intended, but not an exploit" makes me think the system itself is intended, but that particular usage of it isn't. Which is pretty much what I was getting at in my previous post.

see in my book using an "unintended feature" to your advantage is walking a very fine line between cheating and not, id even say it is having your pinky toe on the cheating side.

You are simply failing to understand what was unintended.

The feature was fully intended. There is no plausible reason otherwise.

What was unintended is not the feature itself, but the necessity to use the feature in order to play competitively by maximizing dps.

zdkazz

I dislike the system, and just think the game would be better without it.

Drazhar14 wrote: »

Actually, characters do keep blocking while the animation happens if block was held before the ability was pressed. Only abilities that have cast time stop the block. If you get an addon that displays player buffs, the one for block (brace) can be up 100% of the time while using instant cast abilities. Since magic users don't use stamina, then can keep block up much longer while using their magic for offensive. If a stamina user tries this, their stamina will be depleted very fast from trying to be offensive and defensive with the same resource.

As for heavy attacks having longer range, I do not think 10+ meters should be possible for a sword swing. Test it out. Activate a speed buff, start charging a heavy attack beside a neutral creature, and run away while it is charging. No matter where you are, the attack will still land. NPC's can do the same thing. You can sprint by them on a horse and they will start charging a heavy attack. You can be 20 meters away when they finish charging and swing, and the attack will still hit you.

But back to animation cancelling. Having the block buff on yourself should prevent you from casting abilities until it is released, and players should not be allowed to gain the block buff until animations are finished playing.

this ^^

moXrox

I dislike the system, and think it contributes to macro abuse and cheating that hurts the game.

Any class can attack from block, not just magic users. They're also not blocking while the animation happens. This is a non-issue.


Which stamina weapon attack skills are possible if you hold block with your 2h/dual wield weapon and attacking at the same time ???

Circuitous wrote: »

Drazhar14 wrote: »

Magic users can keep block held down while casting abilities. They can be immune to CC and take reduced damage while doing DPS because of this, which should not be possible. It doesn't make sense, and its just another reason why stamina builds are inferior to magic builds.

When holding block, they player should not be allowed to use any abilities until block is released. Damage checks should also be done when an animation is finished, not when it's started. That should help fix the animation cancelling problem. Its also really silly how you can start charging a heavy attack, move well out of range of the enemy, and still hit them, because you started charging while they were within range...

Any class can attack from block, not just magic users. They're also not blocking while the animation happens. This is a non-issue.

Damage checks are done at the instant the skill is intended to hit - this is their cast time. Some skills have additional animation beyond the cast time after the damage check happens, and this is what you can cancel with blocking.

And furthermore, heavy attacks have substantially longer range than light attacks with melee weapons. This is intentional, and has nothing to do with what range you started charging at. Nor does it have anything to do with animation canceling.

JLB wrote: »

Good amount of choices. Definitely needs to be removed, at least from Destro staves. I guess it feels "deep" to be able to throw 700+ heavy attacks at the speed of a light attacks.

Animation canceling doesn't let you do power attacks as fast as light attacks. It just doesn't. It does let you release the power attack sooner, but that's as long as the power attack needs to charge to fire in the first place. You could simply let go of the button earlier and still get it that fast, you don't even need to cancel it with a skill.

You are saying any class can attack from block but it is not about a class but the build of a class.

Can you please explain how do you attack with stamina weapon skills in the same time when you hold your 2H or Dual Wield Weapon in front of your head ?

With a stave and certain magicka attack abilities you could at least a while ago hold block and do damage in the same time.

zdkazz

I dislike the system, and just think the game would be better without it.

Aeratus wrote: »

zdkazz wrote: »

Circuitous wrote: »

zdkazz wrote: »

Circuitous wrote: »

zdkazz wrote: »

considering it is unintended, and its cheep, allowing you to block and push dps all at once, I really dont like it, you shouldnt be able to push the best dps and also be defensive at the same time...
SCORCE:

I'll be straight with you: there is absolutely no way this system is unintended. Devs were making use of it in PTS PvP events. Cast time and animation time are acknowledged as separate things.

Whether it's intended to allow higher DPS output, as opposed to allowing you to make defensive choices while attacking (like interrupting an opponent during a channeled spell), that is up for debate. But the system itself is clearly intentional.

sorry about my sorce pic not poping up at first i fixed it lol, but if you look the devs have said its unintentional severtimes,

The question was phrased around using it to maximize DPS. The response of "Not exactly intended, but not an exploit" makes me think the system itself is intended, but that particular usage of it isn't. Which is pretty much what I was getting at in my previous post.

see in my book using an "unintended feature" to your advantage is walking a very fine line between cheating and not, id even say it is having your pinky toe on the cheating side.

You are simply failing to understand what was unintended.

The feature was fully intended. There is no plausible reason otherwise.

What was unintended is not the feature itself, but the necessity to use the feature in order to play competitively by maximizing dps.

I hate to tell you this but it is not an intended thing, dmmg isnt supposed to be applied if the animation is canceled, they just havent fixed it, or decided to roll with it, you say thats out of context, but that is the entirety of the conversation, nothing else was said, and the question asked about the attack canceling, the whole thing, and the response from zos was that it was unintended.

smeeprocketnub19_ESO

I'm completely neutral about the system, but I use it myself.

Aeratus wrote: »

zdkazz wrote: »

Circuitous wrote: »

zdkazz wrote: »

Circuitous wrote: »

zdkazz wrote: »

considering it is unintended, and its cheep, allowing you to block and push dps all at once, I really dont like it, you shouldnt be able to push the best dps and also be defensive at the same time...
SCORCE:

I'll be straight with you: there is absolutely no way this system is unintended. Devs were making use of it in PTS PvP events. Cast time and animation time are acknowledged as separate things.

Whether it's intended to allow higher DPS output, as opposed to allowing you to make defensive choices while attacking (like interrupting an opponent during a channeled spell), that is up for debate. But the system itself is clearly intentional.

sorry about my sorce pic not poping up at first i fixed it lol, but if you look the devs have said its unintentional severtimes,

The question was phrased around using it to maximize DPS. The response of "Not exactly intended, but not an exploit" makes me think the system itself is intended, but that particular usage of it isn't. Which is pretty much what I was getting at in my previous post.

see in my book using an "unintended feature" to your advantage is walking a very fine line between cheating and not, id even say it is having your pinky toe on the cheating side.

You are simply failing to understand what was unintended.

The feature was fully intended. There is no plausible reason otherwise.

What was unintended is not the feature itself, but the necessity to use the feature in order to play competitively by maximizing dps.

where does she say anything like that? Where does she say your definition instead of just saying it wasn't exactly intended. Please stop passing off your opinion as fact.

zdkazz

I dislike the system, and just think the game would be better without it.

moXrox wrote: »

Any class can attack from block, not just magic users. They're also not blocking while the animation happens. This is a non-issue.


Which stamina weapon attack skills are possible if you hold block with your 2h/dual wield weapon and attacking at the same time ???

Circuitous wrote: »

Drazhar14 wrote: »

Magic users can keep block held down while casting abilities. They can be immune to CC and take reduced damage while doing DPS because of this, which should not be possible. It doesn't make sense, and its just another reason why stamina builds are inferior to magic builds.

When holding block, they player should not be allowed to use any abilities until block is released. Damage checks should also be done when an animation is finished, not when it's started. That should help fix the animation cancelling problem. Its also really silly how you can start charging a heavy attack, move well out of range of the enemy, and still hit them, because you started charging while they were within range...

Any class can attack from block, not just magic users. They're also not blocking while the animation happens. This is a non-issue.

Damage checks are done at the instant the skill is intended to hit - this is their cast time. Some skills have additional animation beyond the cast time after the damage check happens, and this is what you can cancel with blocking.

And furthermore, heavy attacks have substantially longer range than light attacks with melee weapons. This is intentional, and has nothing to do with what range you started charging at. Nor does it have anything to do with animation canceling.

JLB wrote: »

Good amount of choices. Definitely needs to be removed, at least from Destro staves. I guess it feels "deep" to be able to throw 700+ heavy attacks at the speed of a light attacks.

Animation canceling doesn't let you do power attacks as fast as light attacks. It just doesn't. It does let you release the power attack sooner, but that's as long as the power attack needs to charge to fire in the first place. You could simply let go of the button earlier and still get it that fast, you don't even need to cancel it with a skill.

You are saying any class can attack from block but it is not about a class but the build of a class.

Can you please explain how do you attack with stamina weapon skills in the same time when you hold your 2H or Dual Wield Weapon in front of your head ?

while holding block you can cleave, critical rush and uppercut, and most of the 1 handed skills aswell, anyone can do it with any weapon, but it should not be allowed. it is cheep, and so close to cheating it is not even funny.

moXrox

I dislike the system, and think it contributes to macro abuse and cheating that hurts the game.

Aeratus wrote: »

zdkazz wrote: »

Circuitous wrote: »

zdkazz wrote: »

Circuitous wrote: »

zdkazz wrote: »

considering it is unintended, and its cheep, allowing you to block and push dps all at once, I really dont like it, you shouldnt be able to push the best dps and also be defensive at the same time...
SCORCE:

I'll be straight with you: there is absolutely no way this system is unintended. Devs were making use of it in PTS PvP events. Cast time and animation time are acknowledged as separate things.

Whether it's intended to allow higher DPS output, as opposed to allowing you to make defensive choices while attacking (like interrupting an opponent during a channeled spell), that is up for debate. But the system itself is clearly intentional.

sorry about my sorce pic not poping up at first i fixed it lol, but if you look the devs have said its unintentional severtimes,

The question was phrased around using it to maximize DPS. The response of "Not exactly intended, but not an exploit" makes me think the system itself is intended, but that particular usage of it isn't. Which is pretty much what I was getting at in my previous post.

see in my book using an "unintended feature" to your advantage is walking a very fine line between cheating and not, id even say it is having your pinky toe on the cheating side.

You are simply failing to understand what was unintended.

The feature was fully intended. There is no plausible reason otherwise.

What was unintended is not the feature itself, but the necessity to use the feature in order to play competitively by maximizing dps.

Intended....do you really think we believe this.

Intended is an abilitiy which reacts with a hit of a button and not crooked exploit techniques which you do with a purpose.

Animation Canceling issues are in other games aswell, ESO is not the first game where you see that.