Fixing PVE End Game Templar DPS

Pmarsico9

There's an issue with Templar viability as anything but as the single token healer in trials while maintaining a competitive trial team. These are single-target focused, as Destruction Staff AoE is significant and there's adequate pure DPS morphs on things like Puncturing Strikes and Solar Flare for AoE that can be used in conjunction with Unstable Wall and Pulsar.

Here's how to fix it and make Templars more engaging to play compared to what they are now as DPS:

New Baseline talent added to Prism: Gain additional Ultimate when activating a Sun Ability, additionally, your Magicka Regeneration is increased by 15/30% when your ability bar has 5 Templar Damage abilities on it.

Sun Fire and Morphs: 10% flat buff on DoT effect damage.

Solar Flare and Morphs: Healing debuff removed, no longer applies non-scaling spell damage/weapon damage debuff on target. Applies flat 10% damage buff on Templar's next ability. Solar Barrage morph applies 10% damage taken debuff to all affected targets and gives up 10% buff on Templar. Dark Flare morph gains chance to be instant cast off Templar DoT damage (Blazing Spear, Burning Light, Vamp's Bane, Backlash replacement DoT)

Backlash: Renamed Power of the Light. Baseline ability applies 12 second DoT that scales very well off spell damage. Morph 1 becomes Backlash which functions just like Live's current Power of the Light minus the cast time. Caveat being that only one Backlash can exist on any target at any time (like on live, but it is spelled out in the morph's description, this is a major issue because of the PVE ramifications of having more than 1 DPS templar in PVE, currently.) Morph 2 becomes Dark Purification which will cause a silence and instantly deal 150% of DoT's total damage if dispelled/cleansed to victim. Dark Purification DoT ticks also increases the proc rate of Dark Flare instant casts. Dark Purification can only exist on one target at a time.

This accomplishes two things:

A-) Makes Templars a viable DPSer for top-tier competitive trial runs.

B-) Provides a fluid and engaging Templar DPS rotation vs. what currently exists.

CaptainSilverbrow

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

New Baseline talent added to Prism: Gain additional Ultimate when activating a Sun Ability, additionally, your Magicka Regeneration is increased by 15/30% when your ability bar has 5 Templar Damage abilities on it.

Useless. We aren't even designed to have a bar of exclusively offensive spells, let alone exclusively offensive Templar spells. We've just too many useful utility spells. Suggesed amendment: Require at least one/two Dawn's Wrath ability/abilities slotted.
Manageable, and a boon we'll all be expected to use.

Sun Fire and Morphs: 10% flat buff on DoT effect damage.

Useless. Again.

B-but, incremental d-damage buffs f-fix everything!

Said every ZoS developer since beta, ever. Suggested amendment: Reduce the duration of DoTs by 40%/50% but maintain concurrent damage potential.
This has the benefit of dramatically increasing burst and effective DPS.

Make Solar Flare's empowerment a short, durational effect rather than a one-trick pony. Or the following, which I rather like;

Solar Flare and Morphs: Healing debuff removed, no longer applies non-scaling spell damage/weapon damage debuff on target. Applies flat 10% damage buff on Templar's next ability. Solar Barrage morph applies 10% damage taken debuff to all affected targets and gives up 10% buff on Templar. Dark Flare morph gains chance to be instant cast off Templar DoT damage (Blazing Spear, Burning Light, Vamp's Bane, Backlash replacement DoT)

I could certainly of get behind this. The healing debuff ought to stay, though.

Backlash: Renamed Power of the Light. Baseline ability applies 12 second DoT that scales very well off spell damage. Morph 1 becomes Backlash which functions just like Live's current Power of the Light minus the cast time. Caveat being that only one Backlash can exist on any target at any time (like on live, but it is spelled out in the morph's description, this is a major issue because of the PVE ramifications of having more than 1 DPS templar in PVE, currently.) Morph 2 becomes Dark Purification which will cause a silence and instantly deal 150% of DoT's total damage if dispelled/cleansed to victim. Dark Purification DoT ticks also increases the proc rate of Dark Flare instant casts. Dark Purification can only exist on one target at a time.

I like this, particularly Dark Purification. It resolves the concurrent Backlash problem, and adds a new dynamic to PvP that everyone, non-Templars included, will need to evaluate carefully when confronted. It also patches up our glaring vulnerability to spellcasters smoothly.

Nice suggestions, OP.

Pmarsico9

CaptainSilverbrow wrote: »

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

New Baseline talent added to Prism: Gain additional Ultimate when activating a Sun Ability, additionally, your Magicka Regeneration is increased by 15/30% when your ability bar has 5 Templar Damage abilities on it.

Useless. We aren't even designed to have a bar of exclusively offensive spells, let alone exclusively offensive Templar spells. We've just too many useful utility spells. Suggesed amendment: Require at least one/two Dawn's Wrath ability/abilities slotted.
Manageable, and a boon we'll all be expected to use.

I can't get behind this simply because it would make Templars OP'd in PVP. Requiring 5 non-healing abilities on your bars for sustainable Magicka regen without stacking it on gear puts Templars in the same place as the other classes for healing. Blazing Shield is not a healing ability, nor is Eclipse, nor is Blinding Flashes, so the utility can stay, but essentially anything from Restoring Light being on your bars should negate this magicka regen buff completely.

CaptainSilverbrow wrote: »

Sun Fire and Morphs: 10% flat buff on DoT effect damage.

Useless. Again.

B-but, incremental d-damage buffs f-fix everything!

Said every ZoS developer since beta, ever. Suggested amendment: Reduce the duration of DoTs by 40%/50% but maintain concurrent damage potential.
This has the benefit of dramatically increasing burst and effective DPS.

No, Templars are strong in PVP. The tools they have now have already made them arguably the strongest class 1v1. Increasing Burst is a way to lead to complete ruination for the class. This is very short sighted without a view of the game as a whole. Templars don't really need burst buffs, anyway. Target Swapping during an encounter with instant cast Dark Flares should be more than ample.

CaptainSilverbrow wrote: »

Make Solar Flare's empowerment a short, durational effect rather than a one-trick pony. Or the following, which I rather like;

Solar Flare and Morphs: Healing debuff removed, no longer applies non-scaling spell damage/weapon damage debuff on target. Applies flat 10% damage buff on Templar's next ability. Solar Barrage morph applies 10% damage taken debuff to all affected targets and gives up 10% buff on Templar. Dark Flare morph gains chance to be instant cast off Templar DoT damage (Blazing Spear, Burning Light, Vamp's Bane, Backlash replacement DoT)

CaptainSilverbrow wrote: »

I could certainly of get behind this. The healing debuff ought to stay, though.

Then I'd put it onto Solar Barrage. Higher risk vs. reward. Dark Flare, at range will be lethal when it is instant cast proccing on Vamp Bane's across multiple targets.

Backlash: Renamed Power of the Light. Baseline ability applies 12 second DoT that scales very well off spell damage. Morph 1 becomes Backlash which functions just like Live's current Power of the Light minus the cast time. Caveat being that only one Backlash can exist on any target at any time (like on live, but it is spelled out in the morph's description, this is a major issue because of the PVE ramifications of having more than 1 DPS templar in PVE, currently.) Morph 2 becomes Dark Purification which will cause a silence and instantly deal 150% of DoT's total damage if dispelled/cleansed to victim. Dark Purification DoT ticks also increases the proc rate of Dark Flare instant casts. Dark Purification can only exist on one target at a time.

CaptainSilverbrow wrote: »

I like this, particularly Dark Purification. It resolves the concurrent Backlash problem, and adds a new dynamic to PvP that everyone, non-Templars included, will need to evaluate carefully when confronted. It also patches up our glaring vulnerability to spellcasters smoothly.

CaptainSilverbrow wrote: »

Nice suggestions, OP.

Thanks. And thanks for your feedback, too. We need constructive discussions to make this class work in all phases of the game.

CaptainSilverbrow

Please don't take me the wrong way, I'm being totally passive.

Pmarsico9 wrote: »

I can't get behind this simply because it would make Templars OP'd in PVP. Requiring 5 non-healing abilities on your bars for sustainable Magicka regen without stacking it on gear puts Templars in the same place as the other classes for healing. Blazing Shield is not a healing ability, nor is Eclipse, nor is Blinding Flashes, so the utility can stay, but essentially anything from Restoring Light being on your bars should negate this magicka regen buff completely.

Okay, that's a bit better. You're being more specific now. While I disagree that it would overpower Templars to begin with (to the contrary, DKs could use the competition, as that) is where it'd place us in regards to resource management, which we lack), restricting it to DPS builds is a safe and simple enough measure, so I digress. But not exclusively Templar abilities; there needs to be flexibility that enables hybrid builds (like my own) to benefit, else it's just a caster buff until they stop scaling class abilities with magicka.

No, Templars are strong in PVP. The tools they have now have already made them arguably the strongest class 1v1.

Every class is strong in PvP, and there is no 1v1 bracket in this game. In the scope of this game, until a comprehensive dueling system is implemented and supported, the premier competition brackets in any "arena" situation will always be 2v2 and 3v3, especially as the "buddy system" philosophy prevails over most any group composition. 1v1 is ganking or "fight club" dueling in Cyrodiil. Even were such a system to be implemented, the former wouldn't change. That bracket is dominated by whomever has the best single-target CC and/or sustainability, and it isn't Templars, as we only have one of the two to our benefit, with the former and more puissant of the two being our Achilles' Heel. We do have the broadest toolkit, yes, but if I've Eclipse on my bar against two pitbull skirmishers, then it's just taking up a slot in that situation. If I don't have it when the Sorc joins the fray and proceeds to spam his Crystal Frags and inflict me with well-designed burst DoTs from a safe distance away, then the fight is over. He's got Immovable on a hair-trigger anyway, and just enough stamina regen. to make certain it has nearly 100% uptime, so nothing in my repertoire will stop him. The only all-purpose utility we have is Blazing Shield's effective health, and most of us are naturally okay with that, we're pretty portly and jolly with our utilities as they are.

Increasing Burst is a way to lead to complete ruination for the class. This is very short sighted without a view of the game as a whole.

Funny, considering you seem to have neglected PvE/raiding, where Templars are sorely lacking. Doubly funny, as turning Backlash into a long DoT/silence that immediately explodes for nearly double its damage upon being dispelled is among the epitome of not only burstiness, but potentially overpowered effects.

The "game as a whole" isn't in a healthy way at the moment. DoTs are designed poorly in this game to begin with as the majority are long durations, which are only sound if there are design components in place that ensure their viability, hence poor Entropy being so lonely (which actually isn't that bad when morphed). By virtue of having our vital offensive and defensive spells bound to a single resource, situational awareness will always dictate whether a defensive spell should consume the magicka that would've been consumed by a potent offensive skill, which separates classes like these from others in most games, but instead, in this game, loans more toward each class' individual profile. When that happens, a conscious, critical decision is made to sacrifice (burst) DPS for a moment's sustainability. Tacit strategy throttles burstiness and damage in PvP, as it should be.

Templars don't really need burst buffs, anyway. Target Swapping during an encounter with instant cast Dark Flares should be more than ample.

But that's a huge burst buff, and is just ripping off Sorc's Crystal Frags instant cast component. Again, you're shafting Stam./hybrid builds and buffing Templar casters. You aren't looking at the bigger picture here, and you don't seem to properly contrast betwixt "burst damage buffs" and "modest, conservative DPS buffs". It's entirely comparable to what Retribution Paladins enjoyed in Divine Storm spam at endgame WotLK (WoW).

Back on point, it isn't a component I wholly disagree with in context, but it's a substantially greater burst DPS boon than simply halving Vampire's Bane's duration, which though a burst buff in character, is only truly bursty when it's effective and hacking away at the rear of a more comprehensive assault from the front (DoT ticking while the Templar is attacking with other skills). Look at it as effectively doubling the spell's damage and cost. I consider it more a sustainable DPS boon with PvE in mind, frankly. I don't see a spammable nuke as any less bursty.

Then I'd put it onto Solar Barrage. Higher risk vs. reward.

Okay, that makes sense.

Dark Flare, at range will be lethal when it is instant cast proccing on Vamp Bane's across multiple targets.

It'd be overpowered. I agree with changing the debuff into something more direct, like the two-ended +(x)% damage buff you suggested, but I don't think it should become the class' Crystal Fragments.

Thanks. And thanks for your feedback, too. We need constructive discussions to make this class work in all phases of the game.

Absolutely. Maybe I came off a little terse in the last post.

Pmarsico9

I don't take what you are saying with any aggression. My natural tone may come across as terse, as well.

I understand your points.

The only exception I really have is in regards to how you single out certain Stamina based builds:

There's massive underlying issues with Stamina based builds/skill lines that Templar class trees, which are essentially overly stretched by their utility and overall "mish-mosh," aside from Restoring Light, simply can't be viewed as a means to remedy stamina-based issues for Melee/Bow-heavy Templar builds.

With that said, it should not be understated that Templars arguably are in the best place for stamina based builds as it stands due to Radiant Aura. You get quite a bit of regen from that skill simply being on your bars, and maintaining uptime is not hard.

Funny, considering you seem to have neglected PvE/raiding, where Templars are sorely lacking. Doubly funny, as turning Backlash into a long DoT/silence that immediately explodes for nearly double its damage upon being dispelled is among the epitome of not only burstiness, but potentially overpowered effects.

Backlash's DoT explosion is essentially for people who spam cleanses without fear of reprisal. This makes this damage non-trivial in PVP. The explosion only happens if the spell is cleansed.

As far as PVE/Raiding, Templars don't have sustained single target damage on par with other classes, which is the main goal here. The burst will have some ramp-up, but thematically, the class that has access to heals without weapons swaps should have some pitfalls in damage dealing methodology/concept. Right now, that pitfall is non-viability. That's excessive.

Due to ramp up via the need to apply multiple DoTs to multiple targets, the ability to toss out instant-cast Dark Flares is actually a good way to go.

As for originality, instant-cast-procs are not unique to this. 90% of what I ripped off is actually based on World of Warcraft's Warlock spell methodology back before that game's DPS rotations became a disaster.

Burst is tied to the uptime of DoTs which simultaneously bolster sustained and proc tighter windows of Burst.


But understand my main point:

I agree that there's a lack of balance in this game. However, I think the views of Stamina vs. Magicka and how class abilities support them isn't something that we can speak on until Stamina-based DPS is actually remotely close to what Staves are. Moreover, for resource regeneration, I can't comment on that, either. Simply because rolls eating Stamina and Blocking eating Stamina and Sprinting Eating Stamina are all things that I don't view as an environment conducive to tanks being viable at all or stamina-based DPS being more than a gimmick.

So we can't try to fix that. That's a separate issue that goes far past just Templars.