Thoughts on the Dye System

hishikiroda

Hello again everyone! This post will be much shorter than the one I wrote about housing in ESO, and has to do entirely with an idea for the new dye system they said would be implemented soon.

First of all, let me say that I am extra super duper excited for this feature, its one of my favorite things to do in a game like this, and can't wait for the added customization it will bring!

I think it would be amazing if you could craft gear using dyes and sell them with that particular color pattern. From what I can tell, you will be using a 3 or 4 block pattern with the system you are working on, and if you could work that into the craftin UI, then players would be able to make whole sets of matching colors.

Now, the bit that is kind of plus and minus about this is that the colors are tied to achievements. Personally im happy about that part of the system, and could see my addition of it into crafting make people want to go out and earn achievements to unlock a particular color so they dont have to keep buying gear with that color crafted in. The potential downside is that it has the small potential to make players just want to buy gear with certain colors instead of getting the achievement that unlocks it for them. I think that the tendancy would be to make people want to get the achievement themselves (I know thats what it would do for me).

In order to make this work you would need 2 additional pieces added into the game, some kind of icon next to the name of the item when it is being looked at in the store or inventory to allow players to recognize when an item has been dyed, and what colors were used.

Secondly you would need a preview window of either how the item looks, or how it looks on the character. This could be achieved with either a right click prompt, or a hotkey. Regardless of whether or not you implement dyes into the crafting system, I feel that a preview window would be a great addition to the game in and of itself!

Sorry if someone already posted an idea like this, I didn't see it if they did. Ill give a link to my housing post in case anyone is interested in giving their thoughts on that too.

Otherwise, happy hunting!

Forum post about some of my ideas on housing;

forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/111725/housing-in-elder-scrolls-online/p1

Ragnar_Lodbrok

I think its jacked up that all the best dyes will be locked behind power gaming raid achievements 95% of us will never get

Food4Thought

I'm betting that the item can only be dyed once it is bound to a character. Much like the way an item can be only enchanted if it is bound. Our crafting interface doesn't do much to show up what the item will like prior to crafting and you all but have to put the thing on to see how it looks. I think the same will be true for dyeing.

NerfEverything

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

I think its jacked up that all the best dyes will be locked behind power gaming raid achievements 95% of us will never get

I think this is awesome and I wouldn't want it any other way. Not sure why people want stuff handed to them these days. If you want the most badass looking dye, you are going to have to defeat the most badass boss.

AinGeal

This is something that has bugged me about dyes in MMOs.

Take GW1 as a perfect example. Dye is dropped by mobs but their drop rate was not equal for all the colors. Black had the lowest drop rate. Combine this with a dye vendor, black dye was given the largest vendor price.

This makes black dye a prestige color. It became a show of achievement and wealth rather than just a color people like on their character. It artificially generates an increase in demand for that color because it then fulfills the obsessive need for gamers to show themselves off as "better" than their fellow gamers.

But even after the game was out for years and subs have plateaued, not everyone is dyed all in black. Why is that? Because not everyone likes the look of black dye. Also, people want their character to look unique.

Locking certain colors behind artificially higher prices, lower drop rates, or more difficult achievements is absolutely unnecessary.

NerfEverything

AinGeal wrote: »

This is something that has bugged me about dyes in MMOs.

Take GW1 as a perfect example. Dye is dropped by mobs but their drop rate was not equal for all the colors. Black had the lowest drop rate. Combine this with a dye vendor, black dye was given the largest vendor price.

This makes black dye a prestige color. It became a show of achievement and wealth rather than just a color people like on their character. It artificially generates an increase in demand for that color because it then fulfills the obsessive need for gamers to show themselves off as "better" than their fellow gamers.

But even after the game was out for years and subs have plateaued, not everyone is dyed all in black. Why is that? Because not everyone likes the look of black dye. Also, people want their character to look unique.

Locking certain colors behind artificially higher prices, lower drop rates, or more difficult achievements is absolutely unnecessary.

So by your logic, every character should be given full epic gear on creation.
This makes no sense. Gating is a staple of MMORPGs.

AinGeal

NerfEverything wrote: »

So by your logic, every character should be given full epic gear on creation.
This makes no sense. Gating is a staple of MMORPGs.

Not even close of a comparison.

What does black dye add to the gears functionality that blue dye does not?

NerfEverything

AinGeal wrote: »

show previous quotes

NerfEverything wrote: »

So by your logic, every character should be given full epic gear on creation.
This makes no sense. Gating is a staple of MMORPGs.

Not even close of a comparison.

What does black dye add to the gears functionality that blue dye does not?

The difference in stats between purple/gold gear is negligible. And gear doesn't matter at all 1-50. It is a prestige thing, just like gated dye. Sorry if the comparison wasn't obvious.

The point is, if everyone has access to something, then there is no sense of pride or accomplishment for having it. What is the point of even playing the game if you aren't rewarded for your accomplishments.

This is a stupid conversation. I am tired of explaining the basics of MMORPGs to people who clearly just want to play SimDressup.

Evergnar

Based on the number of colors/shades/tones they showed I can't imagine everyone not being satisfied with this dye system. Even if you don't have the exact color or shade you like probably will have one that's close enough.

I'm just having to prepare myself mentally because the world is not going to look the same after they come out. I don't mean that in a bad way. Just that it will take some time to get use to seeing gear like bright pink (No offense, I know some love it).

ebondeath

I dont really have an objection to some colors being tied to achievements, except for black. It's a basic, plain color and realistic for gear. Am I really going to have to do endgame group content with no solo alternative to wear the staple color of an assassin? Seems really, really lame.

aipex8_ESO

Evergnar wrote: »

Based on the number of colors/shades/tones they showed I can't imagine everyone not being satisfied with this dye system. Even if you don't have the exact color or shade you like probably will have one that's close enough.

This. The screenshot showed one named black that was tied to a trials achievement, but it looked like there were other blacks and dark grays that would be tied to other things. Hopefully they give different blacks for PvE solo and group and PvP achievements also. I do like that the most sought after colors will be harder to get, I just think there should be a couple different routes to get them.

CosmicChaos

I just hope the dye system applies to Weapon crafting as well. Anyone seen this brought up yet? All I have seen is the info in The Road Ahead.

Obscure

Ummm... So yeah, I just don't want to be metallic blue...

Dirt, Rust, Leather, Brushed Steel, Bone. Make me look gritty like I should look if I'm going out to slaughter waves of enemies. I really don't like looking like I slaughtered the Smurf village, juiced their corpses, and doused my Armor in their shimmering blue slaughtered effluence. WTF did the smurfs ever do to Nirn to deserve such genocide?

Ragnar_Lodbrok

NerfEverything wrote: »

show previous quotes

Ragnar_Lodbrok wrote: »

I think its jacked up that all the best dyes will be locked behind power gaming raid achievements 95% of us will never get

I think this is awesome and I wouldn't want it any other way. Not sure why people want stuff handed to them these days. If you want the most badass looking dye, you are going to have to defeat the most badass boss.

So you are all for locking trivial content away from most of the player base so you can feel like a special snowflake? Its people like you that make ESO fail.

AinGeal

NerfEverything wrote: »

show previous quotes

AinGeal wrote: »

NerfEverything wrote: »

So by your logic, every character should be given full epic gear on creation.
This makes no sense. Gating is a staple of MMORPGs.

Not even close of a comparison.

What does black dye add to the gears functionality that blue dye does not?

The difference in stats between purple/gold gear is negligible. And gear doesn't matter at all 1-50. It is a prestige thing, just like gated dye. Sorry if the comparison wasn't obvious.

The point is, if everyone has access to something, then there is no sense of pride or accomplishment for having it. What is the point of even playing the game if you aren't rewarded for your accomplishments.

This is a stupid conversation. I am tired of explaining the basics of MMORPGs to people who clearly just want to play SimDressup.

A difference in stats is a difference in stats plain and simple. Nice try in playing it down though. Gear doesn't matter at all 1-50? Really? I'd love to see a video of you leveling a character from 1 to 50 wearing no armor and using no weapons.

Now if you were trying to say that putting in the effort and gold to upgrade your gear to epic or legendary level while still leveling through 1-50 is pointless due to how often you will out level it, then just say so.

It would be a pointless statement anyway. Gear progression is gear progression. While still leveling, gear progression comes with replacing the gear you are currently wearing with higher level gear as your character increases in level.

Once you hit max level, gear progression becomes replacing your green, blue and purple gear with gold gear.

Once you get there, you now get to enjoy the fruits of your labor until the devs come out with new levels.

Cosmetics (skins and colors) has been part of what's called horizontal progression. This depends on people feeling driven to work to getting it and depends on if the individual player even likes the look of it. These are just two of the flaws associated with horizontal progress that doesn't exist with vertical progression.

With vertical progression there is no doubt that people want their character to become stronger and this is done with gear that offers better stats. It also, eventually becomes necessary to upgrade your gear just to be able to complete the higher level content. You think you could get through V12 content wearing just normal (white) lvl 1 gear with no set bonuses, no enchantments, and no crafted effects (eg. sharpened)?

Horizontal progress is a silly concept that only perpetuates people wanting trivial and meaningless cosmetic content gated so that they can what?...visually show off how "leet" they are to other players?

I'm sorry but if your life is that sad and pathetic that you need to show off like that to strangers in a video game, you got some real life issues you need to get addressed.

So, no, it's not a fair comparison to equate giving people all the colors with giving people legendary quality end game gear. Not even in the slightest. You're only trolling to think that it is.

Also, who even said anything about GIVING anything to anybody? I sure as hell didn't. I simply said that to obtain one color should not be more difficult than obtaining another. That the work (time, effort, gold, etc.) that it takes to get them should be relatively the same.

Ragnar_Lodbrok

AinGeal wrote: »

show previous quotes

NerfEverything wrote: »

AinGeal wrote: »

NerfEverything wrote: »

So by your logic, every character should be given full epic gear on creation.
This makes no sense. Gating is a staple of MMORPGs.

Not even close of a comparison.

What does black dye add to the gears functionality that blue dye does not?

The difference in stats between purple/gold gear is negligible. And gear doesn't matter at all 1-50. It is a prestige thing, just like gated dye. Sorry if the comparison wasn't obvious.

The point is, if everyone has access to something, then there is no sense of pride or accomplishment for having it. What is the point of even playing the game if you aren't rewarded for your accomplishments.

This is a stupid conversation. I am tired of explaining the basics of MMORPGs to people who clearly just want to play SimDressup.

A difference in stats is a difference in stats plain and simple. Nice try in playing it down though. Gear doesn't matter at all 1-50? Really? I'd love to see a video of you leveling a character from 1 to 50 wearing no armor and using no weapons.

Now if you were trying to say that putting in the effort and gold to upgrade your gear to epic or legendary level while still leveling through 1-50 is pointless due to how often you will out level it, then just say so.

It would be a pointless statement anyway. Gear progression is gear progression. While still leveling, gear progression comes with replacing the gear you are currently wearing with higher level gear as your character increases in level.

Once you hit max level, gear progression becomes replacing your green, blue and purple gear with gold gear.

Once you get there, you now get to enjoy the fruits of your labor until the devs come out with new levels.

Cosmetics (skins and colors) has been part of what's called horizontal progression. This depends on people feeling driven to work to getting it and depends on if the individual player even likes the look of it. These are just two of the flaws associated with horizontal progress that doesn't exist with vertical progression.

With vertical progression there is no doubt that people want their character to become stronger and this is done with gear that offers better stats. It also, eventually becomes necessary to upgrade your gear just to be able to complete the higher level content. You think you could get through V12 content wearing just normal (white) lvl 1 gear with no set bonuses, no enchantments, and no crafted effects (eg. sharpened)?

Horizontal progress is a silly concept that only perpetuates people wanting trivial and meaningless cosmetic concepts gated so that they can what?...visually show off how "leet" they are to other players?

I'm sorry but if your life is that sad and pathetic that you need to show off like that to strangers in a video game, you got some real life issues you need to get addressed.

So, no, it's not a fair comparison to equate giving people all the colors with giving people legendary quality end game gear. Not even in the slightest. You're only trolling to think that it is.

Also, who even said anything about GIVING anything to anybody? I sure as hell didn't. I simply said that to obtain one color should not be more difficult than obtaining another. That the work (time, effort, gold, etc.) that it takes to get them should be relatively the same.

This guy gets it.