With nerfs of HA builds in PVP - give pls to lightning users some thing, to make it playable in PVP

SPR_of_HA_community · October 2022

Lightning staffs are underperforming.
And if in PVE where empower gives 80% dps to monsters in PVP lightning staffs users now have no good options.

There is no good range AOE skills we can use, other weapons have more DPS and better skills/passives.

With nerf of HA builds option in PVP - lightning staffs need a good upgrade to its skills and passives for PVP.

Seriosly - do you see a lot of players play lightning staffs ?

No, because it is underperforming !

HA builds was one of good option, but it was nerfed, now we have no good options.

Give us some thing good, to make lightning staff be a good choise compared to other weapons than.

Why lightning staffs are so underperforming in this game ?

Emmagoldman · October 2022

Do you feel that holding one button should be underperforming, on par, or out perform others that needs to complete combinations with multiple skills?

SPR_of_HA_community · October 2022

Emmagoldman wrote: »

Do you feel that holding one button should be underperforming, on par, or out perform others that needs to complete combinations with multiple skills?

Why do I need to feel it ? If build based on a lot of game mechanicks even 1 button is ok.

The same time in teso you only have 10 buttons. Do not see a lot difference in pressing 1 of 10 buttons.

The same time HA builds do use combinations and if say trully - TESO is not the game with some combinations gameplay.

It is casual based game, it is not cybersport.

So no, I do not feel like it.

fred4 · October 2022

Does every weapon need to perform equally in every situation? IMO, no. I, for one, am still using a lightning staff on my magplar in PvP for these reasons:

Buffs Sweeps and other AOE skills.
Using 1H+S on the back bar, thus needed a weapon on the front bar for magicka return from heavy attacks.
Easy to land heavy attacks.

Artim_X · October 2022

Heavy attacks are fine in PvP. It was a wise decision to make empower a PvE only buff. You know you can also apply sticky dots (despite being overly nerfed) to a enemy player while purely focusing on spamming heavy attacks on them.

If you want your heavy attack spam posts to be taken seriously, then please post your entire setup (food, CP, gear, mundus, rotation, etc.) and examples of how it performs in specific scenarios. In this way, we can provide you with proper feedback on whether something is truly underperforming or whether you simply need to make some changes to your setup.

Feaky · October 2022

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

Lightning staffs are underperforming.
And if in PVE where empower gives 80% dps to monsters in PVP lightning staffs users now have no good options.

There is no good range AOE skills we can use, other weapons have more DPS and better skills/passives.

Try using a masters lighting staff with charged trait and shock enchantments and cast destructive clench followed by a few elemental ring spams. It works well as an AE combo. You could even run that with 5 pieces of Torugs and Heartlands and maximize enchantment damage and status effects.

Amottica · October 2022

Emmagoldman wrote: »

Do you feel that holding one button should be underperforming, on par, or out perform others that needs to complete combinations with multiple skills?

I have no issue with a simple build doing ok, but it should never be competitive with a more complex build that requires more skill to perform well.

@Feaky has an idea there.

stevenyaub16_ESO · October 2022

It's not underperforming though.

And if you wanna pvp, use a pvp build. It's always been that way.

SPR_of_HA_community · October 2022

All who tell about PVP build - how many of you use lightning staffs in your build ? )

Just a question - because I know that not a lot of people use it: underperforming weapon ? )))

The same in PVE - you do not often see in a lot of good groups some thing different from Fire staffs/Duals/ 2 handed weapons on DD.

Answer is the same simple - with all the same they do more DPS.

And just one simple question - why the hell ? )

blktauna · October 2022

and you wonder why the pvp population keeps shrinking.

I have a few lightening based HA pvp builds with decent damage and I can hold my own. @fred4 works similarly to me. Its all balance and you need to go over what you have and see where the holes are. Try different pots or sets. Decide what you want to focus on and build to that. My one Templar is healing and range so I dont build in any close encounter skills. You can't be a jack of all trades anymore, you need to pick a focus area.

SPR_of_HA_community · October 2022

If speak about PVP - as example I like bows as a weapon too.

But I have 6 seconds delays on snipe too !!!

Just imagine - you press snipe and your character stand 6 seconds before it fire in PVP.
In PVE all wotks perfect, but in PVP you just stand, you can not swap panel or make hit.

With builds base on combo - you only can press 1 skill per 5 seconds in PVP ! How will you fight ?

On target dummy all works perfect - in PVP 5 seconds delays ! It will be easy win if all works, but on current moment a lot of players (as example I am from RU region) plays like this.

And some times I even win - with 5 times less damage and healing (because skills works worse 5 times, I do not see such delays - when some enemy hits me, their skill works 1 per second)

So speak about PVP is really ... .

I do not see like it is honest in this game.

Weapons are not balanced even in PVE, balancing of sets and skills are more based on casual player base opinion.

Just remember Maras bane set, peopke already say it was overperforming, but it was nerfed only when casual part of game community start tell a lot about it.

HA builds in PVP are not such good as before. They are underperforming, but even so it is possible to play.

If I played with 6 seconds skills delay (game do not really feel good in PVP - I do not already believe it will be fixed one day) - even with 2 times nerf of HA builds in PVP it is possible to play.

But the question is different.
Why fire staff do more DPS even in PVE ?
Why so much difference in some types of weapons ?

If HA builds are nerfed in PVP - ok, but give some skills to light i g staffs or do DPS the same for all weapons.

Why on fire staffs as example I have just 10% more DPS, it do not look balanced.

The same for PVP, if HA builds was nerfed, HA of lightning staffs was nerfed - they already were underperforming.

Buff some thing else for lightning staffs than yo make it usefull.

TybaltKaine · October 2022

My PVP toon exclusively uses lightning staves.

She runs a heavy pet build, because I have very bad arthritis.

Build is running Mad Tinkerer x5, Vengeance Leech x3, Shadowrend x2, Oakensoul and Druid's for fill.

I use caltrops, endless fury, crystal fragments, both pets and change my ultimate depending on content. I don't do amazing, but I do just fine, in fact, she is my most complete PVP build likely thanks to the pets and the Oakensoul buffs. I hold heavy attacks and cast skills while holding the button down, they take an extra second or two to fire, but they go off and I manage to hold my own.

I don't think HA is in a bad place at all right now, and I've felt more at home using this build in PVP content than any LA weaving strat I've ever tried, because it works and I don't have to turn my hands into claws to do it.

Will I be 1vx any time soon? Nope, and that's fine, because I do pretty well 1v1 and 1v2, and can hold my own when defending a flag until back up arrives.

Leave Empower in PVE where it belongs, it was a problem in PVP and was getting exploited way too much.

Fire may do more damage, but lightning and healing staves let me have a better sustain and I can easily move around while doing consistent damage and not feel like a burden to any group. Not to mention that my HA's become AOE's with a lightning staff without having to use a slotted ability. Gives me extra flexibility as a one bar player.

Amottica · October 2022

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

All who tell about PVP build - how many of you use lightning staffs in your build ? )

Just like some DW and 2H weapons are favored in PvP. The same should be expected with the staves. In fact, and I mean actual fact, there will always be certain weapons that will outperform other weapons. Nothing will change that.

Dr_Con · October 2022

there's a crit damage dual weild HA build that still hurts people in PVP.

But if you're a staff-only user you'll never experience the joys of doing a heavy attack and a roll mid-charge to release of medium attack on your target.

SPR_of_HA_community · October 2022

I only like lightning staffs in this game.

2 handed looks cool but its game play feels really bad.

Bow looks cool too, but it is buged in PVP - with long delays to snipe skill.
But it works ok in PVE for some reason, in pvp 5+ seconds delays on skills.

Cazador · October 2022

Fire staff only hits 1 target and does more damage as a result. Lighting does less but has added utility in hitting multiple targets. It feels actually quite balanced to me. It's cool that lightning staves are your favorite but buffing them would honestly just make them overpowered.

SPR_of_HA_community · October 2022

Cazador wrote: »

Fire staff only hits 1 target and does more damage as a result. Lighting does less but has added utility in hitting multiple targets. It feels actually quite balanced to me. It's cool that lightning staves are your favorite but buffing them would honestly just make them overpowered.

They were just nerfed. Current version is even more underperforming than before.

HA itself is lose of damage. Is it AOE or not - with out good numbers it is useless.

So even if it is AOE or single target, but it is useless and you will not use it it just do not matter

And other weapons just have better passives for skills.

Cazador · October 2022

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

Cazador wrote: »

Fire staff only hits 1 target and does more damage as a result. Lighting does less but has added utility in hitting multiple targets. It feels actually quite balanced to me. It's cool that lightning staves are your favorite but buffing them would honestly just make them overpowered.

They were just nerfed. Current version is even more underperforming than before.

HA itself is lose of damage. Is it AOE or not - with out good numbers it is useless.

So even if it is AOE or single target, but it is useless and you will not use it it just do not matter

And other weapons just have better passives for skills.

Strongly disagree that lightning staff has worse passives, unless you think less damage but more utility = worse. Hitting several targets can be great. It does less single target damage but it's utility makes up for it. To be honest the only weapon I think has not great passives are maces.

SPR_of_HA_community · October 2022

Cazador wrote: »

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

Cazador wrote: »

Fire staff only hits 1 target and does more damage as a result. Lighting does less but has added utility in hitting multiple targets. It feels actually quite balanced to me. It's cool that lightning staves are your favorite but buffing them would honestly just make them overpowered.

They were just nerfed. Current version is even more underperforming than before.

HA itself is lose of damage. Is it AOE or not - with out good numbers it is useless.

So even if it is AOE or single target, but it is useless and you will not use it it just do not matter

And other weapons just have better passives for skills.

Strongly disagree that lightning staff has worse passives, unless you think less damage but more utility = worse. Hitting several targets can be great. It does less single target damage but it's utility makes up for it. To be honest the only weapon I think has not great passives are maces.

Hutting with good damage can be really greate. But how much damage you can make now on PVP with it as example ?

It is 2 ideas how to kill target in PVP - do constant damage more than target HPS or oneshot the target.

Now both this ideas do not normally work with HA builds.

In PVE you have better AOE options and weapons/sets for that too now.

Maces give penetration ? If so it can be used in PVP, in PVE it is not as good.

dsalter · October 2022

can we give destro staffs another set of buffs specifically for PvP tied to the passive?
fire = causes minor breach to players
lightning = lowers crit resistance when it hits players
ice = make PvP shield stronger+give it critical resistance and make the PvE one grant a passive Empower buff for ice staff.

destro needs a source of empower and ice staff is the worst staff of the 3 so deserves the buff while making the shield granted better for PvP would help it stand out as a tanky damage option.
fire melting the targets resistances slightly and lightning "shocking" the enemy into a vulnerable state would also give the heavy attacks more utility

boi_anachronism_ · October 2022

Everyone has lag in pvp. Try hitting your bow proc on nb and having it "dodged" after it visibly landed. Every time. You can not expect a weapon that is multiple target to put out the same damage as a single target weapon it would tremendously unbalance the game. Also- all staffs were nerfed last patch and they all additionally do less damage then melee very simply because of risk/reward: more dangerous to be in closer proximity. Which is very fair. There is no situation where a single button mash build should be competitive with skilled players and carefully crafted builds. HA builds one-shotting people was a serious issue in pvp- hence the nerf and I am all for it even though I had a staff build that utilized HA in pvp.

You have to build for different situations. Arena builds are different then pvp builds which are different from pve. You need different things- penetration, sustain, burst damage ect. One size fits all would be a) boring b) unbalance everything. Lightning staffs shine in trash packs for dungeons, arenas and solo content. You need to adapt to be competitive. I used to run fire staff bb. Had to change it for hard pve content. Saying buff my weapon because it's the only one I will ever use is gonna get you zero traction.

Also empower has no place in pvp. It's is obscenely strong and was redesigned specifically to give HA builds more utility in pve and solo content as opposed to being abused in pvp. It was one of the big contributors to the HA one shot issues.

ZOS_Hadeostry · November 2022

Greetings,

After further review we have decided to move this thread to a category we think is more appropriate for this topic.

Thank you for your understanding

AdamLAD · November 2022

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

Emmagoldman wrote: »

Do you feel that holding one button should be underperforming, on par, or out perform others that needs to complete combinations with multiple skills?

Why do I need to feel it ? If build based on a lot of game mechanicks even 1 button is ok.

The same time in teso you only have 10 buttons. Do not see a lot difference in pressing 1 of 10 buttons.

The same time HA builds do use combinations and if say trully - TESO is not the game with some combinations gameplay.

It is casual based game, it is not cybersport.

So no, I do not feel like it.

[snip] If a bricklayer lays 10 walls instead of 1. Would you still expect the person who layed 10 be payed the same ? Absolutely not. There is no justifiable reason why someone pressing 1 button should be equal to someone who has mastered there rotation. What would the point in even trying to get better, no reward at all. Extremely bad design. Throughout all walks in life and even all of gaming. The person who took the time, learned, is not lazy and is better reaps the rewards.

[edited for baiting]

Amottica · November 2022

AdamLAD wrote: »

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

Emmagoldman wrote: »

Do you feel that holding one button should be underperforming, on par, or out perform others that needs to complete combinations with multiple skills?

Why do I need to feel it ? If build based on a lot of game mechanicks even 1 button is ok.

The same time in teso you only have 10 buttons. Do not see a lot difference in pressing 1 of 10 buttons.

The same time HA builds do use combinations and if say trully - TESO is not the game with some combinations gameplay.

It is casual based game, it is not cybersport.

So no, I do not feel like it.

[snip] If a bricklayer lays 10 walls instead of 1. Would you still expect the person who layed 10 be payed the same ? Absolutely not. There is no justifiable reason why someone pressing 1 button should be equal to someone who has mastered there rotation. What would the point in even trying to get better, no reward at all. Extremely bad design. Throughout all walks in life and even all of gaming. The person who took the time, learned, is not lazy and is better reaps the rewards.

I agree in principle.

It is perfectly fine to have simple builds do ok in PvE and PvP. However, a more complex and robust build should be able to easily outperform a build that is nothing more than pressing the same button over and over and over again.

It is perfectly fine that a HA build is not nearly as good as a full build. Based on the lack of support in this thread I woujdl suggest the difference is not too great.

[edited to remove quote]

axi · November 2022

Cazador wrote: »

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

Cazador wrote: »

Fire staff only hits 1 target and does more damage as a result. Lighting does less but has added utility in hitting multiple targets. It feels actually quite balanced to me. It's cool that lightning staves are your favorite but buffing them would honestly just make them overpowered.

They were just nerfed. Current version is even more underperforming than before.

HA itself is lose of damage. Is it AOE or not - with out good numbers it is useless.

So even if it is AOE or single target, but it is useless and you will not use it it just do not matter

And other weapons just have better passives for skills.

Strongly disagree that lightning staff has worse passives, unless you think less damage but more utility = worse. Hitting several targets can be great. It does less single target damage but it's utility makes up for it. To be honest the only weapon I think has not great passives are maces.

What? Maces? Penetration provided by maces makes them one of the best weapons in PvP for people running with dual wield or two hand.

boi_anachronism_ · November 2022

Amottica wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

Emmagoldman wrote: »

Do you feel that holding one button should be underperforming, on par, or out perform others that needs to complete combinations with multiple skills?

Why do I need to feel it ? If build based on a lot of game mechanicks even 1 button is ok.

The same time in teso you only have 10 buttons. Do not see a lot difference in pressing 1 of 10 buttons.

The same time HA builds do use combinations and if say trully - TESO is not the game with some combinations gameplay.

It is casual based game, it is not cybersport.

So no, I do not feel like it.

[snip] If a bricklayer lays 10 walls instead of 1. Would you still expect the person who layed 10 be payed the same ? Absolutely not. There is no justifiable reason why someone pressing 1 button should be equal to someone who has mastered there rotation. What would the point in even trying to get better, no reward at all. Extremely bad design. Throughout all walks in life and even all of gaming. The person who took the time, learned, is not lazy and is better reaps the rewards.

I agree in principle.

It is perfectly fine to have simple builds do ok in PvE and PvP. However, a more complex and robust build should be able to easily outperform a build that is nothing more than pressing the same button over and over and over again.

It is perfectly fine that a HA build is not nearly as good as a full build. Based on the lack of support in this thread I woujdl suggest the difference is not too great.

Plenty of folks roll a one bar build which is fine, never gonna pack quite the punch but you can still perform ok with a couple skills but saying I wanna be competitive mashing one HA? Hell no

[edited to remove quote]

SPR_of_HA_community · November 2022

AdamLAD wrote: »

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

Emmagoldman wrote: »

Do you feel that holding one button should be underperforming, on par, or out perform others that needs to complete combinations with multiple skills?

Why do I need to feel it ? If build based on a lot of game mechanicks even 1 button is ok.

The same time in teso you only have 10 buttons. Do not see a lot difference in pressing 1 of 10 buttons.

The same time HA builds do use combinations and if say trully - TESO is not the game with some combinations gameplay.

It is casual based game, it is not cybersport.

So no, I do not feel like it.

[snip] If a bricklayer lays 10 walls instead of 1. Would you still expect the person who layed 10 be payed the same ? Absolutely not. There is no justifiable reason why someone pressing 1 button should be equal to someone who has mastered there rotation. What would the point in even trying to get better, no reward at all. Extremely bad design. Throughout all walks in life and even all of gaming. The person who took the time, learned, is not lazy and is better reaps the rewards.

I do not see any understandable point in your post.

HA builds were the briliant builds with perfect idea, that was in game from start and was nerfed in U35.

In U35 ZOS give this build for PVE casual players with their update. But it was build really exp players play before.

[edited to remove quote]

SPR_of_HA_community · November 2022

Amottica wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

Emmagoldman wrote: »

Do you feel that holding one button should be underperforming, on par, or out perform others that needs to complete combinations with multiple skills?

Why do I need to feel it ? If build based on a lot of game mechanicks even 1 button is ok.

The same time in teso you only have 10 buttons. Do not see a lot difference in pressing 1 of 10 buttons.

The same time HA builds do use combinations and if say trully - TESO is not the game with some combinations gameplay.

It is casual based game, it is not cybersport.

So no, I do not feel like it.

[snip] If a bricklayer lays 10 walls instead of 1. Would you still expect the person who layed 10 be payed the same ? Absolutely not. There is no justifiable reason why someone pressing 1 button should be equal to someone who has mastered there rotation. What would the point in even trying to get better, no reward at all. Extremely bad design. Throughout all walks in life and even all of gaming. The person who took the time, learned, is not lazy and is better reaps the rewards.

I agree in principle.

It is perfectly fine to have simple builds do ok in PvE and PvP. However, a more complex and robust build should be able to easily outperform a build that is nothing more than pressing the same button over and over and over again.

It is perfectly fine that a HA build is not nearly as good as a full build. Based on the lack of support in this thread I woujdl suggest the difference is not too great.

HA build was full build base on good idea and it use a lot of game mechanics.

It was not nearly as good it was better, than builds based on LA+skill spam.

LA builds - press the same one button, I do not see the reason you talk bad about HA builds ? )

HA builds do the same button HA , that LA builds spam there LA.

Other skills are close to both of those builds.

But now HAbuilds was just overnerfed and have really bad values, compared to other builds.

[edited to remove quote]

boi_anachronism_ · November 2022

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

Emmagoldman wrote: »

Do you feel that holding one button should be underperforming, on par, or out perform others that needs to complete combinations with multiple skills?

Why do I need to feel it ? If build based on a lot of game mechanicks even 1 button is ok.

The same time in teso you only have 10 buttons. Do not see a lot difference in pressing 1 of 10 buttons.

The same time HA builds do use combinations and if say trully - TESO is not the game with some combinations gameplay.

It is casual based game, it is not cybersport.

So no, I do not feel like it.

[snip] If a bricklayer lays 10 walls instead of 1. Would you still expect the person who layed 10 be payed the same ? Absolutely not. There is no justifiable reason why someone pressing 1 button should be equal to someone who has mastered there rotation. What would the point in even trying to get better, no reward at all. Extremely bad design. Throughout all walks in life and even all of gaming. The person who took the time, learned, is not lazy and is better reaps the rewards.

I agree in principle.

It is perfectly fine to have simple builds do ok in PvE and PvP. However, a more complex and robust build should be able to easily outperform a build that is nothing more than pressing the same button over and over and over again.

It is perfectly fine that a HA build is not nearly as good as a full build. Based on the lack of support in this thread I woujdl suggest the difference is not too great.

HA build was full build base on good idea and it use a lot of game mechanics.

It was not nearly as good it was better, than builds based on LA+skill spam.

LA builds - press the same one button, I do not see the reason you talk bad about HA builds ? )

HA builds do the same button HA , that LA builds spam there LA.

Other skills are close to both of those builds.

But now HAbuilds was just overnerfed and have really bad values, compared to other builds.

Uh no. HA builds require almost no timing as you just "hold till it's done" the fire a skill, repeat where as LA is timing dependant and specific to each skill, it's its LA, skill, LA, skill, LA all in the time you are chilling holding down that HA. This is why heavy attacks are favorited by new players- because they are much lower skill. All of these builds were in the original game sans the proc sets but plenty of skills that proc this way and always have. Example: elemental weapon requires you to light attack within 2 seconds of engaging the skill. Nb bows depend on weaving properly to get decent damage. I'm not sure where you are getting this from. LA build are much higher skill based and that is not debatable. HA builds got nerfed in pvp which was needed. They are significantly stronger in pve then they were prior to 35. LA get a way heavier nerf in 35 then HA did to begin with.

[edited to remove quote]

SPR_of_HA_community · November 2022

boi_anachronism_ wrote: »

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

Emmagoldman wrote: »

Do you feel that holding one button should be underperforming, on par, or out perform others that needs to complete combinations with multiple skills?

Why do I need to feel it ? If build based on a lot of game mechanicks even 1 button is ok.

The same time in teso you only have 10 buttons. Do not see a lot difference in pressing 1 of 10 buttons.

The same time HA builds do use combinations and if say trully - TESO is not the game with some combinations gameplay.

It is casual based game, it is not cybersport.

So no, I do not feel like it.

[snip] If a bricklayer lays 10 walls instead of 1. Would you still expect the person who layed 10 be payed the same ? Absolutely not. There is no justifiable reason why someone pressing 1 button should be equal to someone who has mastered there rotation. What would the point in even trying to get better, no reward at all. Extremely bad design. Throughout all walks in life and even all of gaming. The person who took the time, learned, is not lazy and is better reaps the rewards.

I agree in principle.

It is perfectly fine to have simple builds do ok in PvE and PvP. However, a more complex and robust build should be able to easily outperform a build that is nothing more than pressing the same button over and over and over again.

It is perfectly fine that a HA build is not nearly as good as a full build. Based on the lack of support in this thread I woujdl suggest the difference is not too great.

HA build was full build base on good idea and it use a lot of game mechanics.

It was not nearly as good it was better, than builds based on LA+skill spam.

LA builds - press the same one button, I do not see the reason you talk bad about HA builds ? )

HA builds do the same button HA , that LA builds spam there LA.

Other skills are close to both of those builds.

But now HAbuilds was just overnerfed and have really bad values, compared to other builds.

Uh no. HA builds require almost no timing as you just "hold till it's done" the fire a skill, repeat where as LA is timing dependant and specific to each skill, it's its LA, skill, LA, skill, LA all in the time you are chilling holding down that HA. This is why heavy attacks are favorited by new players- because they are much lower skill. All of these builds were in the original game sans the proc sets but plenty of skills that proc this way and always have. Example: elemental weapon requires you to light attack within 2 seconds of engaging the skill. Nb bows depend on weaving properly to get decent damage. I'm not sure where you are getting this from. LA build are much higher skill based and that is not debatable. HA builds got nerfed in pvp which was needed. They are significantly stronger in pve then they were prior to 35. LA get a way heavier nerf in 35 then HA did to begin with.

Just really. Teso is casual base game. You talk about LA just too look special. No one really think that LA is skillfull or hard to do.
You are limited in TESO with 12 buttons on panel.

Just as example in Old MMO rpg games it was more than 50 bars you need to check and use.

LA builds are not any skill based. All you really do press button each second + skill.

I just can show it on examples, how people with a low skill can do high damage on LA builds and play really bad. It may be would be nameing and shame ing, so I will not really do it.

HA builds were combo based builds. It use the same 12 buttons as any other build, the only difference you do not spam 1 button every second.

No skilled player will say that skill is just spam 1 button each second. It is some thing macros mouse or bot program with 3 lines of code can do.

Much more skilled is use builds where you do not spam that one button. Because you need good idea for such builds.

Just MAX stats and spam the same skills on same sets is main stream, main stream is not some thing skillful.

The same time not a lot of LA players do some thing really hard in this game.

So - you can say about some skill full or not but LA is not skillfull game play.

Is HA skill full game play ? The same no.

But you do not need to parrot the button each second, so I think it is more clewer gameplay.

LA do not really get big nerf. HA does.

I can show you it on mathematical numbers. Just as example - HA builds before U35 do about 100 K DPS. Now it does the same 100k DPS.

Dummy was buffed about 25%, so HA builds lose about 25% real DPS.

META builds did about 120k DPS, now some of them do about 130k DPS.

If look on game changes - LA builds now use both resources, so they get better sustain.

The same time on example of DK that can have both moltan armaments and empower - with current empower, DK already lose 15% of HA.

And HA lose one hit, so if it hit 16 times before, now it hits only 12 times for same time. So HA builds lose 25% damage from that too on HA.

And we lose maelstorm staff that was big source of HA damage.

All LA players lose is about may be 5k on LA.

HA payers lose about 40% of HA (and HA was about 40-50% of HA players damage)

So HA players lose about 16k DPS.

Whyle LA players only about 5k.

The same time HA players damage already was less and in PVP this lose of damage is even higher, because some sets and skills do not work in PVP.

Just skillfull mathematical numbers

[edited to remove quote]

Amottica · November 2022

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

Amottica wrote: »

AdamLAD wrote: »

SPR_of_HA_community wrote: »

Emmagoldman wrote: »

Do you feel that holding one button should be underperforming, on par, or out perform others that needs to complete combinations with multiple skills?

Why do I need to feel it ? If build based on a lot of game mechanicks even 1 button is ok.

The same time in teso you only have 10 buttons. Do not see a lot difference in pressing 1 of 10 buttons.

The same time HA builds do use combinations and if say trully - TESO is not the game with some combinations gameplay.

It is casual based game, it is not cybersport.

So no, I do not feel like it.

[snip] If a bricklayer lays 10 walls instead of 1. Would you still expect the person who layed 10 be payed the same ? Absolutely not. There is no justifiable reason why someone pressing 1 button should be equal to someone who has mastered there rotation. What would the point in even trying to get better, no reward at all. Extremely bad design. Throughout all walks in life and even all of gaming. The person who took the time, learned, is not lazy and is better reaps the rewards.

I agree in principle.

It is perfectly fine to have simple builds do ok in PvE and PvP. However, a more complex and robust build should be able to easily outperform a build that is nothing more than pressing the same button over and over and over again.

It is perfectly fine that a HA build is not nearly as good as a full build. Based on the lack of support in this thread I woujdl suggest the difference is not too great.

HA build was full build base on good idea and it use a lot of game mechanics.

It was not nearly as good it was better, than builds based on LA+skill spam.

LA builds - press the same one button, I do not see the reason you talk bad about HA builds ? )

HA builds do the same button HA , that LA builds spam there LA.

Other skills are close to both of those builds.

But now HAbuilds was just overnerfed and have really bad values, compared to other builds.

[edited to remove quote]

I have no idea why you are arguing against myh comment. All the quoted comment said is that it is fine that a HA build be ok in PvE and PvP but that a more complex and robust build should outperform such a simple build.

I do not see where my comment you quoted here says anything bad about HA builds.