Normal Dungeons for starter and low level characters?

Rebel_Rose · April 2021

Yet again the other 3 players in the group and i just had the pleasure of belonging to, got to chase a speed running idiot all through the dungeon. I mean what is the point of us even being here? I know why the do it, but surely its time to stop them queueing for Normal Dungeons? By CP sorry i know its called something else now but hey

We cannot queue for higher level dungeons and vet dungeons, so why can they queue for normal ones? It just ruins the whole dungeon thing for everyone else.

Agenericname · April 2021

Rebel_Rose wrote: »

Yet again the other 3 players in the group and i just had the pleasure of belonging to, got to chase a speed running idiot all through the dungeon. I mean what is the point of us even being here? I know why the do it, but surely its time to stop them queueing for Normal Dungeons? By CP sorry i know its called something else now but hey We cannot queue for higher level dungeons and vet dungeons, so why can they queue for normal ones? It just ruins the whole dungeon thing for everyone else.

Because not every 1200CP player is capable of vet content. They also may not want to. ZOS' DF cant differntiate between a player that can and a player that cannot.

I feel a little bad for players caught in this. I would hate it, but you cant force players into content.

What they should consider is making the rewards fit more appropriately to the content. The daily reward for a random normal is the same as vet, so many choose the path of least resistance.

ThoughtRaven · April 2021

You can't stop high cp players from playing normal content. For every high cp player that blasts through content there are 10 who have played long enough to amass significant cp but don't like to do vet content.

If you want to ensure you only play with players who are on the same page as you then make pre-made groups. Otherwise you just have to accept that randoms are random. You roll the dice on the experience you are going to get every time you hit the random queue.

JanTanhide · April 2021

Rebel_Rose wrote: »

Yet again the other 3 players in the group and i just had the pleasure of belonging to, got to chase a speed running idiot all through the dungeon. I mean what is the point of us even being here? I know why the do it, but surely its time to stop them queueing for Normal Dungeons? By CP sorry i know its called something else now but hey We cannot queue for higher level dungeons and vet dungeons, so why can they queue for normal ones? It just ruins the whole dungeon thing for everyone else.

Probably popped as a Random Normal for that person. I do the random normal runs for XP and the crystals. I sure don't run ahead though.

AlnilamE · April 2021

Vote to kick them from the group.

If all three of you agree, he's gone and you can choose to replace him or not.

GreenHere · April 2021

As a hopefully-helpful suggestion:

Make your own groups to avoid this hassle entirely.

- Go to an Undaunted Enclave zone (Deshaan/Mournhold, Grahtwood/Elden Root, Stormhaven/Wayrest)
- type in the /zone chat something like "low levels looking to clear easy dungeons at slow speed for story quest" or whatever
- and specify if you're looking for a certain role.

And suddenly you'll have actually helpful people jumping at the chance to run dungeons at a non-breakneck pace for a change. I've almost never had to post more than twice (or <5 minutes of looking) to assemble a group this way. These people are out there, I promise you.

Don't automatically dismiss people with loads of CP either! There are plenty of helpful and cool high-level folks who are 110% willing to tag along and take things at your pace; you just have to seek them out, because it's not the norm and they tend not to be advertising their desire for "slow" dungeons. Sometimes it's actually really nice to have an experienced person sherpa-ing lowbies, because they often have group buffs that lowbies don't know about or whatever, and/or they'll usually know how to explain mechanics that might otherwise be tripping you up. Remember, it's more about the person's temperament and attitude than their level.

And for anyone that doesn't know, but is wondering: Yes -- you can fully form your own 4-man team ahead of time, queue up for the Daily Random Dungeon, and still get the bonus XP & rewards! Works the same as if you get matched with random jerks that ruin your run. The reward is for doing a random Dungeon, not getting random players! So why put yourself through that unnecessarily, right?

deleted221106-002999 · April 2021

AlnilamE wrote: »

Vote to kick them from the group.

If all three of you agree, he's gone and you can choose to replace him or not.

This.

GreenHere wrote: »

As a hopefully-helpful suggestion:

Make your own groups to avoid this hassle entirely.

And this.

Third option: quit and re-queue.

Dungeon/group finder isn't broken in this context at all, just players understanding and recognition that when you queue solo for a random group that's exactly what you get.

JoDiMageio · April 2021

I agree with all the points and suggestions above, but...

Why [snip] do people feel the need to act this way?

I've been in both situations... A group full of vets wanting to blast through - fine by me, I'll follow. But if you see that you are way ahead and alone, then imo you're just being an ass. It's group content, not do what I want content.

The lack of respect that some people have for others never ceases to disappoint me..

[edited for profanity bypass]

the1andonlyskwex · April 2021

All ZOS needs to do to fix this problem is make vet dungeons worth farming over normals. As-is, it's more time efficient to (effectively) solo normals than to run vets. Normal dungeons take significantly less time to complete and then you get the same random queue rewards and the gear is easily upgraded (and you don't generally need to run a vet dungeon very many times to fully farm the monster helms).

The obvious "solution" is to give vet dungeons new/additional rewards to make them worth the additional time investment (options include unique consumables, significantly more transmute stones, or even "perfected" versions of the sets), but a better balance could also be struck by adjusting the relative difficulty of the two dungeon tiers. The challenge (for ZOS) is making sure the time vs reward tradeoff is sufficient to discourage random normal speedrunning without "forcing" unprepared players into vet dungeons because "normals aren't worth doing".

Personally, I'm not really sure the fix is actually worth implementing though, because I don't entirely trust ZOS to get the balance right (which is why I'm also opposed to a veteran overland mode).

Sarannah · April 2021

ZOS should fix the main groupfinder issues: Fake roles, speedrunners, and whatever else I'm forgetting. This is destroying the game!!

Danikat · April 2021

This is why I think ZOS should offer an alternative to being dumped into a random group or spamming chat hoping enough like minded people are in the same copy of the one map you're currently in.

The ideal IMO would be something like the grouping tool some other MMOs use where instead of (or as well as) the option to queue for a random group you can put up an advert for the type of group or players you're looking for and then people can choose one to join. So it's just like typing in zone chat, but visible to everyone on your server instead of just the tiny minority in the same map at the same time.

If you're happy with a random group you can use that option and accept whatever you get, but if you have specific requirements - like wanting to make sure everyone else is prepared to rush through as quickly as possible and knows how to do that - you can choose a group which fits your needs.

JoDiMageio wrote: »

I agree with all the points and suggestions above, but...

Why [snip] do people feel the need to act this way?

I've been in both situations... A group full of vets wanting to blast through - fine by me, I'll follow. But if you see that you are way ahead and alone, then imo you're just being an ass. It's group content, not do what I want content.

The lack of respect that some people have for others never ceases to disappoint me..

I suspect some of them don't even notice everyone else isn't with them.

Once when I was in a group like this - one person rushed ahead before everyone had even loaded in, the rest of us followed along as best we could allowing for the person who wanted to do the quest - the first sign we had that the one loner had noticed we weren't with him was when he suddenly started spamming chat with "where heal?" "heal" "heal" "heal" over and over. He'd hit a boss he couldn't burn down in seconds and gotten killed because no one was with him. If that hadn't happened I suspect he'd have blasted through the entire dungeon and quit without a second thought.

Not that it makes it ok, but I think that's how little thought goes into it. They just want to get in and out as quickly as possible and nothing else goes through their minds except getting it done.

[edited to remove quote]

lolo_01b16_ESO · April 2021

There is a very easy solution to this problem:
Make sure that a vet dungeons rewards you with similar amounts of loot per hour than normal dungeons and I'm sure those "speedrunners" will mostly stay out of normals.

GreenHere · April 2021

JoDiMageio wrote: »

I agree with all the points and suggestions above, but...

Why [snip] do people feel the need to act this way?

I've been in both situations... A group full of vets wanting to blast through - fine by me, I'll follow. But if you see that you are way ahead and alone, then imo you're just being an ass. It's group content, not do what I want content.

The lack of respect that some people have for others never ceases to disappoint me..

I know your post was mostly rhetorical, but just to shed a little light on it anyway for anyone who cares:

Mostly it's that people just wanna get as many random normals done as they can, as fast as they can. I can't deny that.
Partly for the xp, partly for the crystals & other material rewards, but also partly because they simply have limited time available and don't much care what others got goin on. (Why those time-constrained people choose to play video games with random strangers at that exact moment is beyond me, but I digress...)

Often it's not about any kind of malice or disregard for other people's comfort level, though; some people just enjoy creating large add pulls to burn down in one impressive bonfire of smoldering corpses! Taking the entire dungeon 3 adds at a time is excruciatingly boring for them. Some people (often healers, in my experience) like to encourage groups to face larger/tougher add pulls to make their role actually feel worthwhile/challenging, while also making the run more efficient. Some tank builds get stronger the more adds they have stacked around them (Sap tanks, Leeching/Bahraha's builds, etc.). Point is, it's not always just people rushing and being jerks for no reason other than selfishness. It's a legitimate way to play, just as much as taking it slow and steady is.

Now that said: Obviously a little communication and common courtesy would go a long way in all of those instances. But after a while you stop bothering, since ~90% of groups won't even acknowledge anything you type in chat anyway. So I can kind of understand people's angle on both sides of the fence here. Personally I just match my speed to whatever the group as a whole (or the Tank if the rest appear unsure) seem to be moving at. Seems like the courteous thing to do, and I do make an effort not to be an ass to people. Sometimes if an entire group appears to be following my lead for whatever reason, I'll then proceed to do the whole "pull an entire room at once" thing and attempt to push people's boundaries a bit; not to troll them or anything, but just to have fun and help more timid players "grow" a bit. Most seem to enjoy it, or openly say they like how things went at the end.

I know one guy who runs 3 or 4 quick normals on their lunch break. They're an otherwise pretty nice and helpful person from what I've seen in guild chat and whatnot, but during those crunch-time random runs he wouldn't take the time to put you out if you were on fire, lol. He absolutely blazes through dungeons, and as long as you know what you're signed up for it's fun; but I have seen random players get flustered and frustrated by it.

I used to run with a Healer who would sprint ahead of the Tank and gather every mob she could find, then lead the parade back to the group for funsies. It wasn't about going fast or trolling anyone, it was just fun to bring a wave of baddies straight into the group's lap for her. Made her feel more useful, I think. And she was always very cool and helpful with people -- especially newbies -- and participated in the chat all the time. If asked to not do things her way she'd happily comply without complaint, but left to her own devices she'd usually be doing things that "weren't her job" by the standard-accepted definition.

I myself like to solo dungeons now and then, so I've kind of defaulted to pulling as many adds as I can handle at once just to make things go faster (soloing can take a long time, for those who don't do it enough to know). I moderate my behavior in-group as stated above, but given my experiences I genuinely see large add pulls (which is what most people seem to think of as "rushing ahead of the group") as just the more effective way of getting things done. "Work smarter, not harder" and all that. Dropping your AoEs and Ult on the boss and then watching the parade of adds chasing you walk straight into the meat grinder you set up is both satisfying and time-efficient. Mobs all die and you're already 20% through with the boss fight. It's really not such a bad way to play, if you can find a way to not feel rushed by it when others initiate before you're ready.

But yeah, there's no shortage of jerks who just don't give a crap about their teammates. I'm not denying that. Just sayin', try not to attribute malice in every case. To some extent, "rushing" dungeons is just as legitimate as taking them slow, and furthermore everyone just has different speeds & comfort levels. A lot of people probably don't even realize they're doing anything that ticks you off, and will happily slow their roll if you need to do a quest or just feel overwhelmed or whatever. The responsibility to communicate what you want from your group in the chat is a two-way street, after all.

Hope that helps! Thanks for coming to my TED talk!

[edited to remove quote]

deleted221106-002999 · April 2021

Speed runners have always existed to one extent or other but first random normal of the day = 10 transmute crystals + 100k xp. Most experienced players you'll meet in randoms will want to complete that in as short as time as is practicable because if you have run this content 100's of times it gets very tedious and slowing down is...challenging.

If you state at start you need quest then most players will slow down (somewhat), those that don't are simply exercising their co-equal rights in a 4-player randomly generated group/dungeon. Often players who slow down will also remain grouped post-run for a while allowing anyone who wishes to explore the now-cleared dungeon to do so (I often do this).

If you have specific objectives but need to go random then try to pre-form a group in guild or zone chat that has similar objectives (quest, slower, explore, story line, low levels only...whatever) - a pre-group is the only realistic way to achieve whatever your particular objectives are. You may also make some friends, too, so you can explore future content together.

amapola76 · April 2021

GreenHere wrote: »

Often it's not about any kind of malice or disregard for other people's comfort level, though; :

I'm sorry, but 99% of what you've described in your post may not be malicious, but it is by definition disregard for other people.

No matter what the justification is, or how valid you/they think it is, someone who decides how they want to do things and then does it, without any consideration or thought for the other three people in the group, and doesn't pay any attention to input to the contrary from the rest of the group, is inherently selfish. It may be more or less selfish depending on whether it is deliberate or unconscious/thoughtless, but either way, it is prioritizing the needs of one's self over everyone else. It may not mean that player is an inherently evil person, but there's simply no way to describe it as anything other than disregard for other people.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · April 2021

Best way to prevent this is to incentivize the tougher dungeons. I absolutely run low level Randoms for transmutes when I need them. Admittedly, I try to be a considerate group member, but I know some people don't. Double the transmutes and XP for a random vet and I promise it puts a dent in this type of behavior. The ability to turn of DLC for ESO+ would also move the needle.

Adernath · April 2021

In my opinion the best solution would be to split the RND in the DF into non-DLC and DLC (so each queue have their own daily xp reward) but give normal dungeons for all players below 160 cp while give always vet for > 160 cp. This will ensure that new people only play together (in a random) with similarly experienced players.

This would only affect the DF for random parties. Players who want to play together can still group up. Furthermore, experienced players who don't have the time to run a DLC can just queue for non-DLC to ensure to receive one of the two daily rewards. It also should avoid that people bailing out of DLC content at the start.

GreenHere · April 2021

amapola76 wrote: »

GreenHere wrote: »

Often it's not about any kind of malice or disregard for other people's comfort level, though; :

I'm sorry, but 99% of what you've described in your post may not be malicious, but it is by definition disregard for other people.

No matter what the justification is, or how valid you/they think it is, someone who decides how they want to do things and then does it, without any consideration or thought for the other three people in the group, and doesn't pay any attention to input to the contrary from the rest of the group, is inherently selfish. It may be more or less selfish depending on whether it is deliberate or unconscious/thoughtless, but either way, it is prioritizing the needs of one's self over everyone else. It may not mean that player is an inherently evil person, but there's simply no way to describe it as anything other than disregard for other people.

I tend to agree, honestly. I moderate my own behavior based on whatever vibe I'm getting from the group for exactly that reason.

But what if you're a slow-goer who gets matched with 3 speed runners? Then you're* the person who's "inherently selfish" if you don't do things their way, right? If we're judging by simple majority, that turns the tables even though you haven't changed anything about your own approach.

Point being, I see a lot of "slow and steady, attacking enemies as we encounter them, IS the right/default way to play!" assertions thrown around, but it's just not that simple. Again, as someone who does tend to agree with "slow" being the norm (at least on some level), I do acknowledge that different people have different comfort levels & combat styles/speeds. Not to mention any irl needs / time constraints. The best way to bridge that gap is to just communicate with your team... but many teams won't even acknowledge your existence in chat on PC/NA (and I assume on other platforms as well). So it's not quite as cut and dry as it's often made out to be.

I can also understand why people don't want to wait on folks who insist on looting E V E R Y single crate, box, barrel, sack, and banana off the ground. By all means, search for Backpacks/Trunks, Heavy Sacks, and Chests; but do all your "minor" looting on your own time, right? There are countless Delves that have 12x as many unremarkable lootables in them for you to stock up on Provisioning goods, and no one is waiting on you there. Respect for other people (and their time) is a two-way street. Some people are just too slow.

Just to be clear, though -- I definitely fall on the "Random-Group speed runners are dumb jerks who lack basic courtesy" side of the fence in this debate, so I do essentially agree with the OP and with you @amapola76 . I just thought it was worth pointing out that not everyone sees things the same way, because it often seems like these threads have people who don't see it from any other perspective than "the victim" of being rushed or whatever. The whole deal is more complicated than "randoms should go at the pace I'm comfortable with", which seems to be a lot of people's standpoint. Seemed like a little insight was in order, imo.

*The figurative -- hypothetical -- "you", just to be clear. Not casting any accusations, just trying to illustrate a point.

amapola76 · April 2021

GreenHere wrote: »

But what if you're a slow-goer who gets matched with 3 speed runners? Then you're* the person who's "inherently selfish" if you don't do things their way, right? If we're judging by simple majority, that turns the tables even though you haven't changed anything about your own approach.

Yes, I think that does change the calculation. As a slow explorer who likes to take the quests, I still try to gauge what the general group mode is, and if it's for a speed run, I at least try to keep up. I mean, if I want/need the quest, I try to express that to the group. If someone else wants to take the quest, even if I don't need it, I will always wait for them. OTOH, sometimes I load in and all three people are already sprinting across the map, in which case I'll take off after them immediately, particularly if it's during an event. The absolute worst, though, is when you load in last as the lowest level group member, and you're basically churning through the backwash of mobs that everyone else has left in their wake, so that it's impossible to keep up without dying over and over. I truly hate players who do that.

I definitely agree with you about picking up provisioning materials. I'm a pick up everything person, when I'm on my own time, but never loot that stuff in dungeons. Backpacks and chests should always be fair game, though. Nobody wants to miss a rare furnishing recipe.

Basically, I think that no matter how fast or slow we personally may want to take it, communication is always key. It doesn't take that long to wait for everyone to load in. The bare minimum we should do is take those 15 seconds or whatever, make sure everyone is there, see if anyone has any special requests or make any of our own, and then adjust accordingly. I can understand why someone might want to blast through 4 dungeons in a lunch break, and I can also understand why someone might want to examine every inch of a dungeon. The thing that seems to be increasingly lost, both in game and in the real world sadly, is that we're a community, not just a bunch of individuals, and that comes with responsibilities.

Anyway, my intent was not to lecture you personally, I think we're mostly on the same page about all this, I just think it's a good thing for everyone to talk about community norms and expectations.

etchedpixels · April 2021

Adernath wrote: »

In my opinion the best solution would be to split the RND in the DF into non-DLC and DLC (so each queue have their own daily xp reward) but give normal dungeons for all players below 160 cp while give always vet for > 160 cp. This will ensure that new people only play together (in a random) with similarly experienced players.

This would only affect the DF for random parties. Players who want to play together can still group up. Furthermore, experienced players who don't have the time to run a DLC can just queue for non-DLC to ensure to receive one of the two daily rewards. It also should avoid that people bailing out of DLC content at the start.

You also need to change the rewards. There are a bunch of things would help

- making transmute crystal rewards higher for DLC and higher still for vet content (which means being able to queue for DLC v non DLC). Say 5 or 10 for DLC + 10 for vet

- making the random normal dungeon XP reward each day taper downwards between CP160 or so to zero at CP 600 so you are pushed into vet not speedrunning fungal grotto.

Allowing people to solo queue for normals would also fix a lot of the anti-social people. They'd go solo the dungeon just as they already do for undaunted keys.

Oreyn_Bearclaw · April 2021

Adernath wrote: »

In my opinion the best solution would be to split the RND in the DF into non-DLC and DLC (so each queue have their own daily xp reward) but give normal dungeons for all players below 160 cp while give always vet for > 160 cp. This will ensure that new people only play together (in a random) with similarly experienced players.

This would only affect the DF for random parties. Players who want to play together can still group up. Furthermore, experienced players who don't have the time to run a DLC can just queue for non-DLC to ensure to receive one of the two daily rewards. It also should avoid that people bailing out of DLC content at the start.

Sorry, but very bad solution. The vast majority of players at 161 CP are not even close to be ready for a vet dungeon. Forcing them all into vet would increase the already high failure rate of random vets. Plenty of 1200 CP players that arent ready for a vet dungeon for that matter. Vet content just isnt for everyone.

I am all for different queues for DLC and non DLC, or some sort of ability to disable eso+ for purposes of GF.

AcadianPaladin · April 2021

Not all high CP players are speed demons. I'm happy to get a transmute crystal from a daily pledge, but by timing and spacing out the pledges among the several variants of my character, I can solo at least one pledge every day - and at a nice slow pace that I prefer.

When I do use the dungeon finder, it is only on my high level healer that can solo the dungeons I queue for (a selection of normal non-DLC dungeons which happen to be a pledge that day. The reason I sometimes pug is purely to 'flex' my healer's ability to respond to whatever group dynamics she faces. As the healer, she brings up the rear. Though she has had to race along behind in many dungeons, she much prefers a slower pace where folks have time to do the quest if needed, find chests/heavy sacks, let the group stay together and allow the tank to initiate pulls.

Bottom line is that high CP is not really the problem as plenty of us also prefer a slower pace. Or at least are courteous enough to move at the pace of the slowest group member.

Agenericname · April 2021

Adernath wrote: »

In my opinion the best solution would be to split the RND in the DF into non-DLC and DLC (so each queue have their own daily xp reward) but give normal dungeons for all players below 160 cp while give always vet for > 160 cp. This will ensure that new people only play together (in a random) with similarly experienced players.

This would only affect the DF for random parties. Players who want to play together can still group up. Furthermore, experienced players who don't have the time to run a DLC can just queue for non-DLC to ensure to receive one of the two daily rewards. It also should avoid that people bailing out of DLC content at the start.

What CP would be used for vet DLCs? 300 CP is requirement right now. While I personally know a few that can and have completed at and below that level, the vast majority could not. Many well above that CP struggle.

Many CP players perform poorly in vet content, even base game. Vet content is and should be optional. If they want to help alleviate this, they can provide incentive to do the content while preserving the choice at the same time. Forcing it would be... bad.

zaria · April 2021

GreenHere wrote: »

amapola76 wrote: »

GreenHere wrote: »

Often it's not about any kind of malice or disregard for other people's comfort level, though; :

I'm sorry, but 99% of what you've described in your post may not be malicious, but it is by definition disregard for other people.

No matter what the justification is, or how valid you/they think it is, someone who decides how they want to do things and then does it, without any consideration or thought for the other three people in the group, and doesn't pay any attention to input to the contrary from the rest of the group, is inherently selfish. It may be more or less selfish depending on whether it is deliberate or unconscious/thoughtless, but either way, it is prioritizing the needs of one's self over everyone else. It may not mean that player is an inherently evil person, but there's simply no way to describe it as anything other than disregard for other people.

I tend to agree, honestly. I moderate my own behavior based on whatever vibe I'm getting from the group for exactly that reason.

But what if you're a slow-goer who gets matched with 3 speed runners? Then you're* the person who's "inherently selfish" if you don't do things their way, right? If we're judging by simple majority, that turns the tables even though you haven't changed anything about your own approach.

Point being, I see a lot of "slow and steady, attacking enemies as we encounter them, IS the right/default way to play!" assertions thrown around, but it's just not that simple. Again, as someone who does tend to agree with "slow" being the norm (at least on some level), I do acknowledge that different people have different comfort levels & combat styles/speeds. Not to mention any irl needs / time constraints. The best way to bridge that gap is to just communicate with your team... but many teams won't even acknowledge your existence in chat on PC/NA (and I assume on other platforms as well). So it's not quite as cut and dry as it's often made out to be.

I can also understand why people don't want to wait on folks who insist on looting E V E R Y single crate, box, barrel, sack, and banana off the ground. By all means, search for Backpacks/Trunks, Heavy Sacks, and Chests; but do all your "minor" looting on your own time, right? There are countless Delves that have 12x as many unremarkable lootables in them for you to stock up on Provisioning goods, and no one is waiting on you there. Respect for other people (and their time) is a two-way street. Some people are just too slow.

Just to be clear, though -- I definitely fall on the "Random-Group speed runners are dumb jerks who lack basic courtesy" side of the fence in this debate, so I do essentially agree with the OP and with you @amapola76 . I just thought it was worth pointing out that not everyone sees things the same way, because it often seems like these threads have people who don't see it from any other perspective than "the victim" of being rushed or whatever. The whole deal is more complicated than "randoms should go at the pace I'm comfortable with", which seems to be a lot of people's standpoint. Seemed like a little insight was in order, imo.

*The figurative -- hypothetical -- "you", just to be clear. Not casting any accusations, just trying to illustrate a point.

Agree, the 3 might be an organized group needing an 4th for an random dungeon.
And the most effective way to clear dungeons is to pull all adds around an corner close to the boss and burn them.
No it don't work with pugs even invite in guild chat unless you know each other or they understand the tactic as else people spread out.
Group must obviously also be able to handle this but this is hardly an issue in normal unless group is very weak.

No this does not in any way defend trolling who I define as leaving behind mobs for enemies for the rest to fight.
Doing nRoM on an Khajiit with the sneak passives and ring of the wild hunt as you know how to skip trash then rest of the group does not is trolling and you obvious deserve an kick.

You also have various alts, I have 11, 2 is rated for vet dlc, my magplar is an excellent healer who also does over 30k on the 6M dummy while having two group heals, one of my weirdest stuff was doing CoA2 HM with fake tank and me as DD/ off heal, yes I planned to switch to full heal on last boss but I thought I could teach the tank an lesson.
My stamplar does more dps but is an pure DD with less utility.
5 other is qualified for vet dungeons. The rest well I have an magcro I have no idea how to play for one

I would not take her into an vet dungeon then I have 7 others who does way better.

Now during the double xp event and especially the days after later things get a bit stressed. With double xp and an 50% scroll an random normal earned me one cp level. 250K for the run then extra xp for killing mobs and perhaps a quest.

Psiion · March 2022

Greetings,

Due to the age of this thread and the fact it contains outdated information, we have gone ahead and closed it down. If anyone would like to continue discussion of this subject, please feel free to create a new, up to date thread to do so.