Please, no more dungeons where you are straight up PUNISHED for having a healer in the group.

Faded · March 2021

hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »

.....

I'm not talking about 3DD vs healer in general, I am talking about dungeon design

You stumbled into a fight people want to have. It's scary to criticize the development or design, not so much other players.

DreamsUnderStars · March 2021

Add on top of this that mobs and especially bosses don't seem to have any sort of cooldown on their skills. [snip]

[Edited to remove Bashing]

Agenericname · March 2021

DreamsUnderStars wrote: »

Add on top of this that mobs and especially bosses don't seem to have any sort of cooldown on their skills. Very sloppy game design.

They do. At least in the context of this they do. The simulacrums in SCP HM are predictable. You control when they come, which is part of what makes this possible. Her beam is also predictable. The breath is tied to the amount of time she spends in any given 20% interval of health, so the ability to bypass that mechanic is based somewhat on knowing when to burn.

The crystals in FL HM are predictable as are the ghost walls, which are the mechanics people are either trying to bypass or minimize with the 3rd DD.

The parts of the fight that folks are attempting to bypass or mitigate are very predictable.

I don't think that ZOS ever intended 1T3DD as much as they painted themselves into a corner with healers.

ZOS_ConnorG · March 2021

Greetings all,

After review we have had to edit or remove several posts for rule violations, mostly Rude Comments. Ensure when engaging in a discussion that you keep said discussion civil, constructive, and within the rules. If you see a post that is baiting in nature do not engage it with further hostility and instead report it for the moderators to review.

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Oreyn_Bearclaw · March 2021

Honestly, I think every dungeon you mentioned is easier WITH a healer. Now healers should be able to do more than just heal, they should also buff, debuff, put out some DPS, etc. A good healer can buff group damage by nearly as much as a 3rd damage dealer, but with way more utility. I have 3 DPSed just about everything you listed, but I will always prefer a healer.

QuebraRegra · March 2021

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

CheeseWhalele wrote: »

The OP has a good point. The game mechanic requires three roles to enter a dungeon as a group, but if you then effectively disable one of of the roles after entering, ZOS is encouraging the "healers are useles, DPS is all that counts" attitude that is written about quite a bit in this forum. It diminishes the game design.

I enjoy combat in a support role, but when those roles are made obsolete my reason to play is gone.

Yup. Quite frankly I'm sick and tired of the "DPS is all that counts" attitude both from the community and from the game design.

The whole game experience in PVE is entirely designed around DPS sadly

I tend to have healer builds for dungeons that offer decent DPS as well 9sometimes top DPS.. LOL).

Shantu · March 2021

I ran with a group that did all those dungeons in HM...and never once did the though cross my mind that the healer was useless. But our healer was good at what she did and also contributed to damage, sustainability, as well as keeping us alive. Not saying that's the way it is how it should be with all groups, just my opinion. Every group has different skill dynamics. Some groups might definitely do better with 3DD and no healer.

renne · March 2021

HumbleThaumaturge wrote: »

But I'm not okay with DLC dungeons being specifically designed for 1 tank and 3 dps, instead of the traditional group that includes a healer.

Yeah, I'm gonna need to see a source for this claim they have been "specifically designed" for a 1T3DD.

khyrkat wrote: »

It's the people straight yelling at me because I'm a healer that really annoy me. Like this 25k hp "tank"dude that asked me in offending way did I really have to enter this random vet dungeon as a healer because 3 dd's are better, like wtf, it's random and puts specified roles in a group O_O .

This is why we also need targeted heals skills. You're really going to complain about a healer in the group? Then you can heal yourself.

ivelbob · March 2021

There was a similar situation in FFXIV where it felt like healers didn't have to do much to keep the party alive in most dungeons. To make healing more active and more necessary, in the most recent expansion, they added more boss mechanics like room-wide AOEs and made other adjustments. Healers had to spend more time actually healing instead of doing damage.

That could be one direction ESO takes to make the healer more necessary and good healers more valuable.

amm7sb14_ESO · March 2021

QuebraRegra wrote: »

amm7sb14_ESO wrote: »

CheeseWhalele wrote: »

The OP has a good point. The game mechanic requires three roles to enter a dungeon as a group, but if you then effectively disable one of of the roles after entering, ZOS is encouraging the "healers are useles, DPS is all that counts" attitude that is written about quite a bit in this forum. It diminishes the game design.

I enjoy combat in a support role, but when those roles are made obsolete my reason to play is gone.

Yup. Quite frankly I'm sick and tired of the "DPS is all that counts" attitude both from the community and from the game design.

The whole game experience in PVE is entirely designed around DPS sadly

I tend to have healer builds for dungeons that offer decent DPS as well 9sometimes top DPS.. LOL).

Before I started any of my healers, but after I knew that I wanted to build one, I was trying to think of ways that I would heal and DPS on the same character. As I got focused on my healing, the DPS fell by the wayside. I might have 1 damage skill on any of my healers, tbh. I remain focused on keeping 100% uptime on HOT's, buffs, debuffs, and CC's, so I end up not having much time for damage.

That said, I do have one character who I have recently re-worked. He's a bit more of a solo character, but I have been able to take him into some group content, including vets and trials. He's a necro vampire that I call my Frenzy-Bomb. I use Frenzy to drain my life and blow myself up with Phoenix set, giving myself a huge damage shield, an AOE fire burst, and a full heal (from the Sated Frenzy morph that heals when the ability is turned off.) Since I cannot be healed from other sources while Frenzy is on, I have a resto-staff back bar, with a bunch of different heal abilities to keep myself up while I have Frenzy on, and I do so much healing and buffing that I end up being something as an off-healer in group content. I have rolled it as the healer in some easier content, but I'll stick to DPS in harder content, since the last thing you need in higher level group content is the healer blowing himself up

Eedat · March 2021

Solution: use buffs so you contribute to dps as a healer

AlnilamE · March 2021

They should really add a boss in a dungeon that needs to be healed to death.

That would be fun.

JJMaxx1980 · March 2021

So I am a Templar Healer who does mostly 4-man content. I've done BRF, DOM, CT, LOM, IR, SCP Hard Modes, among others. I completed Storm Foe, which is Ice Reach HM, speed run, no death in the same run. That was fun. I enjoy healing and I consider myself a career healer.

I think about all the utility that I am bringing to my group, which significantly increases DPS. My main setup for general 4-man content is Spell Power Cure/Powerful Assault/Symphony of Blades. PA/SPC gives the group an extra 737 weapon and spell damage with 100% uptime. In addition, my Templar passive Illuminate is giving an additional 10% spell damage through Minor Sorcery. Minor Berserk from my Combat Prayer gives and additional 5% damage boost. And that's not even mentioning my Wall of Elements keeping enemies Off Balance or War Horn, both of which increase damage. And finally there's my own straight DPS, including Heavy Attack, Shards, Power of the Light, etc...

I probably didn't even get them all but you get the idea. I am maximizing my groups sustain, damage output and survivability to create an easier experience. I don't know the numbers but I'm willing to bet that the only thing you're doing with 3 DPS is stressing yourself out for no good reason. Also you have to run some kind of shield or self-heal for intermittent damage, therefore reducing your damage output at the start.

I heal so that DPS can be DPS. They can do what they love to do, pump out insane numbers. I take satisfaction when DPS notice their increased damage due to my efforts. The tank gets shards and bubbles, the DPS gets more dakka and I get to do what I love to do, which is be a support role. That's my take.

ccfeeling · March 2021

JJMaxx1980 wrote: »

So I am a Templar Healer who does mostly 4-man content. I've done BRF, DOM, CT, LOM, IR, SCP Hard Modes, among others. I completed Storm Foe, which is Ice Reach HM, speed run, no death in the same run. That was fun. I enjoy healing and I consider myself a career healer.

I think about all the utility that I am bringing to my group, which significantly increases DPS. My main setup for general 4-man content is Spell Power Cure/Powerful Assault/Symphony of Blades. PA/SPC gives the group an extra 737 weapon and spell damage with 100% uptime. In addition, my Templar passive Illuminate is giving an additional 10% spell damage through Minor Sorcery. Minor Berserk from my Combat Prayer gives and additional 5% damage boost. And that's not even mentioning my Wall of Elements keeping enemies Off Balance or War Horn, both of which increase damage. And finally there's my own straight DPS, including Heavy Attack, Shards, Power of the Light, etc...

I probably didn't even get them all but you get the idea. I am maximizing my groups sustain, damage output and survivability to create an easier experience. I don't know the numbers but I'm willing to bet that the only thing you're doing with 3 DPS is stressing yourself out for no good reason. Also you have to run some kind of shield or self-heal for intermittent damage, therefore reducing your damage output at the start.

I heal so that DPS can be DPS. They can do what they love to do, pump out insane numbers. I take satisfaction when DPS notice their increased damage due to my efforts. The tank gets shards and bubbles, the DPS gets more dakka and I get to do what I love to do, which is be a support role. That's my take.

No doubt , I will pick a healer like you .

TBH , hard to find a good healer sometimes .

mocap · March 2021

meanwhile: "vet hm Scalecaller solo all bosses"

preevious · March 2021

JJMaxx1980 wrote: »

So I am a Templar Healer who does mostly 4-man content. I've done BRF, DOM, CT, LOM, IR, SCP Hard Modes, among others. I completed Storm Foe, which is Ice Reach HM, speed run, no death in the same run. That was fun. I enjoy healing and I consider myself a career healer.

I think about all the utility that I am bringing to my group, which significantly increases DPS. My main setup for general 4-man content is Spell Power Cure/Powerful Assault/Symphony of Blades. PA/SPC gives the group an extra 737 weapon and spell damage with 100% uptime. In addition, my Templar passive Illuminate is giving an additional 10% spell damage through Minor Sorcery. Minor Berserk from my Combat Prayer gives and additional 5% damage boost. And that's not even mentioning my Wall of Elements keeping enemies Off Balance or War Horn, both of which increase damage. And finally there's my own straight DPS, including Heavy Attack, Shards, Power of the Light, etc...

I probably didn't even get them all but you get the idea. I am maximizing my groups sustain, damage output and survivability to create an easier experience. I don't know the numbers but I'm willing to bet that the only thing you're doing with 3 DPS is stressing yourself out for no good reason. Also you have to run some kind of shield or self-heal for intermittent damage, therefore reducing your damage output at the start.

I heal so that DPS can be DPS. They can do what they love to do, pump out insane numbers. I take satisfaction when DPS notice their increased damage due to my efforts. The tank gets shards and bubbles, the DPS gets more dakka and I get to do what I love to do, which is be a support role. That's my take.

Yes .. When I get sorted with someone like you, the dungeon is a neverending party.
When both the tank and healer are like that, and when the other DD knows his stuff as well, the numbers are pretty insane. Largely better than 4DD, even, since we don't have to move nearly as much, the boss stays put and wa can stop minding our survival too much, since we get patched up instantly by the heal.

Bosses come, start a threatening one-liner, takes 140-150k overall group dps in his face, and leaves a pile of dust.

When given the choice, I'll always pick a normal group (1T, 1H, 2DDs) ..they perform so, so very much much better.
It's a real team effort and not a mere addition of individualities.

AyaDark · March 2021

hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »

Yes, healers are not "needed" in all but a few HMs for most competent groups. But I'm not talking about healer not being needed, I am talking about bad dungeon designs where you are straight up punished for bringing a healer instead of a 3rd DD, like these:

RoM (Ruins of Mazzatun) last boss:
Thanks to the curse mechanic you have a 1/3 chance of not getting heals from the healer, a group that relies on the healer will wipe the moment healer get cursed. Forcing tanks and DDs to be self sufficient

On top of that because of the need to kill totems and stoneshapers asap you are essentially gimping yourself by not having a 3DD composition. In 1T 1H 2DD composition you either get situations where healers can't heal you or where 1 DD has to carry the weight of killing adds alone, you are punished for having a healer.

Doing RoM HM with a traditional group composition is just you praying to rng god that healer don't get cursed, while the lone dps break their fingers trying to kill everything in 5 seconds.

BRF (Bloodroot forge) hm:
Pure DPS check and tank check, and that's literally it. Where's the healer check here? Instead healers are dead weight and 3DD groups are objectively better.

Everything here is easy to avoid there's nothing to heal 99% of the time, as a healer the only thing you can possibly do is provide resources for the tank, which is rendered completely null by a mag DD using orbs. Having a healer means lower dps, lower dps means more lava, more lava means more difficulty. BRF HM with a healer is the true HM here.

Worst thing is, this hm is a pain to tank, and you as a healer can't even help out in the slightest because you can't help one shots. Hell a freaking off tank might even be more useful than a healer here because of how this HM was designed.

SCP (Scalecaller Peak) hm:
Ice statue phase, nuff said. Seriously, why 3 statues? Is this hm designed around a 3dd group? You have to be a masochist to bring a healer here, ice statue phase is a complete nightmare with only 2 DD.

FL (Fang Lair) hm
The worst of the lot, so full of one shots to the point where a 1T 1H 2DD group might as well be a 1T 2DD group.

Beetles touched you = dead in 1 sec, don't interrupt = dead in 1 sec, touch ghost = one shot, hit by colossus heavy = one shot, touch poison aoe = dead in 1 sec, don't run to gold circle = one shot.

What can a healer even do here? Buff the DDs? Good luck combat prayering in all this chaos, and no number of buff can replace a 3rd DD. Heal the tank? You don't get to heal anything because tanking FL is just a bunch of "avoid/dodge roll this or die".

Having a healer instead of another DD just means more one shot ghosts and colossus to deal with. When I cleared FL HM for the very first time on my healer main I just feel bad about getting carried.

DoM (Depths of Malatar) last boss
Same as RoM last boss, thanks to that stupid healing debuff you can't rely on a healer.

At first glance the purification mechanic where you take constant increasing damage overtime seems to suggest that you need a healer, but that healing debuff (Decrepify) ruins it, thanks to that debuff the boss practically becomes a giant dps check.

The only thing a healer will do for you here is make things significantly harder for yourself. This post is 100% spot on.

CT (Castle Thorn) hm
Boss has a ridiculous 20.5 MILLION health, as if this hm was designed around and play tested with a 3DD group from the very beginning. That, on top of long immunity phases and a billion one shot mechanics means that choosing to bring a healer will only bring you pain.

As a healer main, please, no more.

vDOM and last 2 dunguans is place, where I am more often focus on healing as DD than on do DPS.

Stone Garden is place, where i swap to healer on last boss on HM.

So ... it is not about "healers" are not needed.

https://youtu.be/HGB4mAtuw_k

In castle Thorn i am healer 50/50 of time. I start as DD if can not pass -> healer.

vFL can be soloed or duo on HM, so it is not about healer again.

vSP - can be soloed or duo again.

Mazatun and BFR - the same.

AyaDark · March 2021

And as example i am sure that as DD snd Tank i am good or normal+ player.

But as a healer i am normal- or even a little bad.

So any healer with more skill than I have is already needed. And really usefull to all content.

But becouse not enough of them I do heal.

If healer just drop the tank, or DD, what should party do ?

If no heal needed you can always do DPS.

Sinolai · March 2021

You need to adapt. dont play a healer. play a support.
back in the days you had to have a dd with off-heal spec for vBlackheart's haven or you would be on the mercy of rng to complete it.

Fang Lair healer is usually doing the interrupting on orryn, debuffing boss and crystals and giving resources for tank and dd. If tank is not experienced, healer can also cc shalks for the tank.
SCP while healer is not necessary, a good healer makes the ice phase, leimeneid vomit and Zaan's Grip easier.

in DoM you cant heal the debudfed target but that is only 1 out of 3 and there is a ton of damage coming from every corner. You can still shield the debuffed target so consider using healing ward on them.

vCT HM is one of the few dungeons where I prefer a healer, no matter wether I play a tank or a dd. When you claim it is full of one-shot mechanics, you are actually wrong. Most of the stuff wont instantly kill a dd, which is why a healer leaves much more room for mistakes. With a healer, the dds also survive much longer outside the light area during the immunity phase and tank is much more comfortable in the execute when resources are not wasted on heals.

AyaDark · March 2021

True.
Support like character is good.
I am more like support DD.
I have 1 set that can a little power party and my dps and 1 set for myself. Monster helmets - optional on situation.

If you are with good DD you can a little support if with bad DD you can DD.

So you can always do task that is not done.

Like such game style.

Vanya · March 2021

Agreed indeed one of the reasons I personally never play as a healer. Either 1)Its boring and a lot of pressure ,responsibility to keep group alive plus/ or in current scenario majority put blame on healer being ignorant or just ragging because of the death of their virtual character having no clue at all its not healer's fault to heal through 1 shoot or near impossible.

Avalon · March 2021

It’s, unfortunately, the way pretty much every other modern MMO has gone. No tanks or healers, just burn everything down as fast as possible. However, what THAT causes is a new brand of elitism, as if you cannot hold a certain DPS output or better, you get kicked and they find a replacement.

In ESO, imagine if you couldn’t keep up with 70k, even on vet dungeons, like Spindleclutch even, then you get booted. Why? You cause the group to take 30-60 seconds longer to get through I guess. That’s what ends up happening in those games. I hope this game doesn’t go down that road, especially since the devs have spent so much time making all these class skill lines embrace the ‘Tank, DPS, Healer’ approach. They reworked old class skills to support that aim, so, hopefully they don’t, also, keep making content that ruins those efforts.

Celephantsylvius_Bornasfinmo · March 2021

Before talking about 'involving healers more etc' (and believe me I prefer that meta), new dd's need to get their gear together. People are tagging for veteran random dungeons (sometimes dlc) with little to no experience in them and probably with all the wrong gear on. This is my experience coming back to PvE through random dungeon finder and I'm a 1600 CP well experienced PvE player.

There needs to be a higher CP cap for random vet dungeons for sure, firstly. You are throwing lambs to slaughter, Zos!

Merlin13KAGL · March 2021

Youyouz06 wrote: »

Before talking about 'involving healers more etc' (and believe me I prefer that meta), new dd's need to get their gear together. People are tagging for veteran random dungeons (sometimes dlc) with little to no experience in them and probably with all the wrong gear on. This is my experience coming back to PvE through random dungeon finder and I'm a 1600 CP well experienced PvE player.

There needs to be a higher CP cap for random vet dungeons for sure, firstly. You are throwing lambs to slaughter, Zos!

Highly situational. It's more about player experience and skill than it is CP #. I've been in groups that have cleared content the group finder technically wouldn't let them enter (<300 CP, walking in the front door.) I've also been in groups with 1k+ players that weren't worth the mats their gear was made of.

If you're going to try to artificially limit players that are capable of clearing, but restricted by some arbitrary cap, you're going to make it worse, not better.

Kidgangster101 · March 2021

hcbigdogdoghc wrote: »

Yes, healers are not "needed" in all but a few HMs for most competent groups. But I'm not talking about healer not being needed, I am talking about bad dungeon designs where you are straight up punished for bringing a healer instead of a 3rd DD, like these:

RoM (Ruins of Mazzatun) last boss:
Thanks to the curse mechanic you have a 1/3 chance of not getting heals from the healer, a group that relies on the healer will wipe the moment healer get cursed. Forcing tanks and DDs to be self sufficient

On top of that because of the need to kill totems and stoneshapers asap you are essentially gimping yourself by not having a 3DD composition. In 1T 1H 2DD composition you either get situations where healers can't heal you or where 1 DD has to carry the weight of killing adds alone, you are punished for having a healer.

Doing RoM HM with a traditional group composition is just you praying to rng god that healer don't get cursed, while the lone dps break their fingers trying to kill everything in 5 seconds.

BRF (Bloodroot forge) hm:
Pure DPS check and tank check, and that's literally it. Where's the healer check here? Instead healers are dead weight and 3DD groups are objectively better.

Everything here is easy to avoid there's nothing to heal 99% of the time, as a healer the only thing you can possibly do is provide resources for the tank, which is rendered completely null by a mag DD using orbs. Having a healer means lower dps, lower dps means more lava, more lava means more difficulty. BRF HM with a healer is the true HM here.

Worst thing is, this hm is a pain to tank, and you as a healer can't even help out in the slightest because you can't help one shots. Hell a freaking off tank might even be more useful than a healer here because of how this HM was designed.

SCP (Scalecaller Peak) hm:
Ice statue phase, nuff said. Seriously, why 3 statues? Is this hm designed around a 3dd group? You have to be a masochist to bring a healer here, ice statue phase is a complete nightmare with only 2 DD.

FL (Fang Lair) hm
The worst of the lot, so full of one shots to the point where a 1T 1H 2DD group might as well be a 1T 2DD group.

Beetles touched you = dead in 1 sec, don't interrupt = dead in 1 sec, touch ghost = one shot, hit by colossus heavy = one shot, touch poison aoe = dead in 1 sec, don't run to gold circle = one shot.

What can a healer even do here? Buff the DDs? Good luck combat prayering in all this chaos, and no number of buff can replace a 3rd DD. Heal the tank? You don't get to heal anything because tanking FL is just a bunch of "avoid/dodge roll this or die".

Having a healer instead of another DD just means more one shot ghosts and colossus to deal with. When I cleared FL HM for the very first time on my healer main I just feel bad about getting carried.

DoM (Depths of Malatar) last boss
Same as RoM last boss, thanks to that stupid healing debuff you can't rely on a healer.

At first glance the purification mechanic where you take constant increasing damage overtime seems to suggest that you need a healer, but that healing debuff (Decrepify) ruins it, thanks to that debuff the boss practically becomes a giant dps check.

The only thing a healer will do for you here is make things significantly harder for yourself. This post is 100% spot on.

CT (Castle Thorn) hm
Boss has a ridiculous 20.5 MILLION health, as if this hm was designed around and play tested with a 3DD group from the very beginning. That, on top of long immunity phases and a billion one shot mechanics means that choosing to bring a healer will only bring you pain.

As a healer main, please, no more.

Cp plays a huge factor into this. Tanks survivability without a healer along with dps is crazy. I haven't seen a game that has crazy self healing making the healer role worth nothing.

Other games have self heals for dps classes but they are very limited like a heal for a few hundred, not a full heal within 3 seconds.

Same with tanks. 1 tank is good because they can heal themselves like crazy. Cp/gear allows unkillable tank builds it's so stupid. (Saying this as a guy that has been a dk tank for pve since day 1 on console) I never needed a healer ever.

aetherial_heavenn · March 2021

Majkiy wrote: »

OP [snip] didn't play with a good group apparently. Most HMs need healer and having a good healer with good sets provides higher dps than having a 3DDs. Tested it myself, most dungeons are faster with extra buffs from the healer. So if you think that healer is here just for heals, you are wrong and obviously bad healer.

All HMs you write about need a healer. From my experience as a tank that did all dungeon HMs and most dungeon trifectas, I wouldn't go any HM on 3DDs as it's a extra pain and not needed risk. If one DD died and other DD is going to ress, in most cases that DD needs a healing backup so no mechanic will kill that DD who is ressing.

Healer is not useless anywhere. Healer is needed for extra safety, buffs and dps. I always like having a healer in my group and always prefer doing every 4man content with 1T 1H 2DD.

[Edited to remove Rude Comments]

Paddy Solo-ing one of the very dungeons mentioned in OP
Pale order ring, self buffed Magdk using self heals/shields while damaging enough to complete hard mode solo proves you utterly wrong. Healers, watch it and weep. DD's don't even need our buffs/sustain skills anymore as they have their own. This is where the game has been heading. (He is an exceptionally skillful player but he couldn't do it unless self heals/buffs and that ring weren't as OP for DD's as they are at the moment, and if the dungeon design didn't allow for it.)

edited.

https://youtu.be/q0E_UOWu_vU

renne · March 2021

Most players aren't even remotely that skilled. Healers are still needed and the Pale Order ring is NOT all that. Miss me with that "Healers, watch it and weep." rubbish. Acting like one guy who can do a thing is exemplary of the entire DD player base is just straight up wrong.

aetherial_heavenn · March 2021

renne wrote: »

Most players aren't even remotely that skilled. Healers are still needed and the Pale Order ring is NOT all that. Miss me with that "Healers, watch it and weep." rubbish. Acting like one guy who can do a thing is exemplary of the entire DD player base is just straight up wrong.

I said the player was exceptional. I also said the dungeon design and the build options plus the self sustaining buffs/heals in recent skill changes show how support classes aren't necessary for some of the hardest content in game. This is evidence of that. DOH!

I did not say it was exemplary of the player base. I did not even imply it. As for my remark 'healers watch this and weep'....well it may have been hyperbole but when you have a single item that fully heals you, the more damage you do, plus a build that pulls extreme damage to combine with it, both introduced into the game with no downside to using them together it is pretty clear that the intention was to eliminate the need for second party heals. It was probably intended for hard core, refuse to group soloers and solo arenas...but the effect is to eliminate the need for healing/sustain/support roles in dungeon groups. That is poor design.

The OP was talking about design of content...this shows exactly what is wrong with content and gear design if ZoS devs are going to continue with the idea that there are necessary roles for support classes in 4 person content. Lot of posters here are saying: 'support just do more damage and be flexible.' ie be a self sustaining damage dealer. Here is an example of the extreme outcome of that point of view. Sorry if that went over your head in your rush to misinterpret my remarks.

Merlin13KAGL · March 2021

@aetherial_heavenn a single outlier hardly proves the point in either direction.

This was a very specific build on a very specific class and a highly skilled player. This was also making use of mechanics that would not normally be available without being solo (having more options to choose from, since you're not competing with 3 other players to reach them).

aetherial_heavenn wrote: »

DD's don't even need our buffs/sustain skills anymore as they have their own.

If you are providing nothing for your group as a healer, you're doing it wrong.

Kurat · March 2021

I your frustration OP but can you imagine the mess if tanks and dps couldn't survive without a real healer. If dungeons had so crazy incoming dmg that we would need healer spamming heals on us or we would wipe? 90% of the pugs wouldn't able to complete any dungeon because an average pug healer is just spamming rapid regen and heavy attacking. No orbs, no combat prayer, no useful support sets.
You ask for dungeons where healer is needed? That = not pugable