Atherakhia wrote: »

Split the difference.

Deconstructing an item makes it appear in the library and can be reconstructed once, at purple (or gold, why not) for absolutely free. Make any subsequent reconstructed items cost a progressively more expensive at that point.

Second one will start at purple (or blue) quality, and require 25 transmute crystals.
Third one will start at blue (or green) quality, and require 50 transmute crystals.
Fourth one will start at green (or white) quality and require 100 transmute crystals.

remosito wrote: »

Atherakhia wrote: »

Split the difference.

Deconstructing an item makes it appear in the library and can be reconstructed once, at purple (or gold, why not) for absolutely free. Make any subsequent reconstructed items cost a progressively more expensive at that point.

Second one will start at purple (or blue) quality, and require 25 transmute crystals.
Third one will start at blue (or green) quality, and require 50 transmute crystals.
Fourth one will start at green (or white) quality and require 100 transmute crystals.

what did ppl with many chars do to you that you hate them that much???

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

Atherakhia wrote: »

remosito wrote: »

Atherakhia wrote: »

Split the difference.

Deconstructing an item makes it appear in the library and can be reconstructed once, at purple (or gold, why not) for absolutely free. Make any subsequent reconstructed items cost a progressively more expensive at that point.

Second one will start at purple (or blue) quality, and require 25 transmute crystals.
Third one will start at blue (or green) quality, and require 50 transmute crystals.
Fourth one will start at green (or white) quality and require 100 transmute crystals.

what did ppl with many chars do to you that you hate them that much???

I blame ZOS. Like many, I too have 2 of each class. Unfortunately ZOS has made certain they don't want mag classes in their game, so now I have 2 stamina of every class. Maybe this would force more mag players in the world and once more mag exist perhaps ZOS will make them better?

Circular logic for the win?

Can you explain a bit more, @Atherakhia?

There is no bias between Stamina and Magicka when it comes to reconstructing gear.

The "sticker book" contains all possible weapons, armor, and jewelry for calculating the transmute cost ... including Spell Strategist Greatswords and Spriggan's Lightning Staves.

ealdwin wrote: »

Alternatively, if the concern is that people won't be running dungeons/trials as much, then perhaps the rewards for running said dungeons/trails needs to be adjusted to make participating in that content repeatedly more worthwhile, instead of relying on gear grinding as the main draw.

Nordic__Knights wrote: »

Johny29_SK wrote: »

[snip]

[snip]

But to come to the topic .. of course the costs need ro be increased!! And also when I reconstructing something to gold, I dont understand why I dont need the green, blue, violet and gold rosin ? That's dont make sense. When you crafting an item, you also need all this materials to get the item to gold!

Please increase the costs by at least 100 cristals and add the need of the materials by reconstructing items.

Thanks
Johny

[Edit for Baiting.]

you must have upgrade mats to make items gold so its trans stones gear mats and upgreaqd mats to make an item not just trans stones

Apox wrote: »

this is fine. you still need to farm an entire set to get it that cheap. i dont know if youve ever farmed for a burning spellweave inferno staff but let me tell you theyre *** rare. its not like its guaranteed 25 transmutes.

the cost of transmuting is too high and the source of crystals was too low. theyre finally somewhat fixing both and its a damn good change. let it go man

starkerealm wrote: »

chuynh729 wrote: »

I never went out of my way to farm for the staff, but I do have it.

That is absurdly lucky. I say this as someone who's had the BSW BBQ stick drop at least three times, once at level 48.

chuynh729 wrote: »

Typically it's only the last 1-3 pieces from a set that are a pain to farm. Even with 3 missing pieces it's still a cost of 30 or so transmute stones which is still low.

I think that's the point. No, seriously, I think the low cost is the point.

So, a major, longstanding, issue with ESO has been inventory pressure. Our inventories have been getting more, and more, cluttered over the years. Each DLC has brought with it significant changes to existing sets, and the addition of new ones. If a set was useless a couple patches ago, and you deconned everything associated with it, but now it's suddenly useful to your build, you have to go back in and refarm the parts you need.

This is a long term solution.

Instead of us collecting more items, we're looking to unlock a collection set. At that point, a major portion of this is to get us to break down stuff in our inventories that we're not using. Tear up the old sets we've been holding onto on the idea that, maybe, someday, it will be useful.

It also alleviates some of the grind from getting a new character to 50, and having to gear them up. If we already have gear for them, great, but a lot of the time, it means going out and chasing specific drops all over again.

So, let's run some numbers. With the costs as they exist on live, if you take a new character to level 50 and want to gear them up, that will cost somewhere between 300 and 1050 crystals. (Now, it will never actually hit 1050, and will probably cap out at around 910 in realistic circumstances, but that's the theoretical upper limit.) 300's a reasonable amount of grind, 1000 crystals is pretty crazy.

And, yeah, the purpose is to get us to stop carrying so much crap in our inventories and clean those out a bit. At least scrap all the sets we're not using, and may never use.

I think 25 is a pretty reasonable crystal cost for someone who's done a lot of grinding. Now, it does create a fairly complicated question over when you want to scrap items vs when you want to retrait actual drops. Retraiting costs more crystals, but reconstituting requires upgrade materials. I'm not 100% convinced that those options are entirely equivalent. (Jewelry heavily favors retraiting, while the other three favor reconstruction, in my opinion), but there is a legitimate decision to make here.

Given the free limit is 500, and the ESO+ limit is 1k, I think the current prices are calculated around the idea that you'll have most of a set, and then if some balance change hits, you'll be able to afford to pull a complete lineup of gear from storage to keep your character playable, while you work up the crystals for your alts.

Moving the floor up to 75 or 100, would push the "best case," 12 loadout to 900 crystals, well outside the reach of anyone but the most dedicated grinders with ESO+, and have the potential to create situations where players could be left without a solid gear setup if existing sets are heavily retooled.

Now, the thing about this that does worry me is, it opens the door to further reworks similar to what happened with Eternal and Immortal Warrior. I'm not wild about the idea that this will lead to even more impermanence with existing sets. If that's what's going to happen, then that 25 crystal cost will add up fast.

Right now, the system feels like it's designed to be a slightly more inconvenient option for gear storage. If we want the inventory slots for other things, we can just, straight up, junk some armor, and then spend the crystals if we want that back a couple years down the road.

Xebov wrote: »

chuynh729 wrote: »

The current system seems to better fulfill the purpose of replacing gear farming, more so than to allow for easy reconstruction of previously obtained gear.

You seem to ignore or miss some parts in your argument.

Gear farming will increase for quite some time until everyone has finished their collections. You need to have at least 50% of it to even come close to the cost of transmutation. Thats alot of efford required.
After that its a question of "How much Transmute Crystals can you get?". The idea that players will use it as a replacement would require crystals to be easily available in large quantitites. Keep in mind that a full gear set costs requires 12-14 items and costs 300-350 crystals best case. I doubt that crystal drop rates would raise enought to make this viable. Its much more likely that it will be used like transmutation where you farm some pieces and just print the missing ones.
Besides it should also be noted that players would still farm in the end. You either farm for gear, or for crystals and in the current situation alot of players already farming for crystals doing the pledges.

idk wrote: »

This system is intended to be a convenience, not an inconvenience. That is why the cost of reconstruction is not higher, nor should be. I think maybe OP misses some of the other costs such as only one upgrade matt can be returned when a reconstructed piece is deconstructed. That alone means we will not be constructing and deconstructing gear constantly. It really is that simple.

gepe87 wrote: »

Someone fears profit loss in guild vendors...

chuynh729 wrote: »

Exactly. I'm glad you see it as well. People will do dungeons & trials more for the first few months. But afterwards, it really will become a grind for transmute stones.

chuynh729 wrote: »

And yes, most likely people aren't going to transmute literally a whole set of gear. They'll probably have a few pieces already lying around somewhere. I was just saying that they could if they wanted to, in order to emphasize how low of a cost 25 crystals is.

universal_wrath wrote: »

chuynh729 wrote: »

This might be an unpopular opinion.

But I don't understand why the ability to create any gear, with any trait, should cost only 25 transmute stones (and no trait stones). Right now, simply just altering the trait of an already existing item costs 50 transmute stones. With such a low cost, wouldn't this new system make the current transmutation system pointless?

I understand 25 transmute stones is the cost only if you've unlocked every piece of gear from the set. But in my opinion, that "downside" is largely irrelevant because it would only be a matter of time before people get to that point. Part of the fun of this game (and every MMO) is the grind - few things make me as excited as when the last piece of gear I needed finally drops. The reconstruction system will be fun for the first few weeks when people are still collecting gear. But afterwards, a large part of the motivation for doing dungeons, trials, or other content will be almost entirely gone because they can simply "craft" the gear. It'll be a grind for transmute stones. Why spend 20-30 minutes running a dungeon or trial when I can get tier 1 in Cyrodiil campaign and be guaranteed any 2 pieces of a gear set with BiS trait in the same amount of time?

Don't get me wrong - I think the recollection & reconstruction systems are amazing. I can finally clear my bank of the 300 pieces of gear that I saved without worrying about "what if" scenarios.
Sometimes the grind for a single piece of gear is so bad that I don't even feel happy when I finally get it - but rather, "finally, what a **** waste of time". I would love to have the option to avoid those kind of grinds. But I also want the cost to be significant enough that I actually have to think about whether or not it's worth the transmute stones. With a cost of only 25 stones, which is literally half the cost of transmuting an off-trait weapon, the choice is obvious. Getting the weapon you're looking for already requires luck. But you'll also need to roll the right trait to make running the content worth it over simply reconstructing it, because transmuting costs double the amount of stones.

I think a minimum cost of somewhere around 100 transmute stones to reconstruct an item would be much better.

Least fun part of the game for most people I think is the grind, only few people injoy it. I believe some of the reasons for the new system is to help people grind less and be open to and try new builds becauae they have qccess to most sets. If the cost of the sets to be high, most people would grind instead of reconstracting, and this would only reinforce existing meta, because people don't want to waste their time trying new things. Every once in a while someone come up with build idea but never go through with it, mostly because they need to grind and transmute, so they end up theory crafting instead of testing.

Another thing is, for some reason I'm finding hard to collect transmute stones as I used to be a few patches ago, not sure if they deceased the trabsmute stone drop rate or what. I had many gold transmute bags but I don't remmember when was last time I got more than 4 stones per gold bag. I believe gold ahould drop atleast 15 and purple 5 not 1or 2, because that is what I got most of the times. Not every is hard try or grinder that can get 200 stones in a week. I need about a week to get 40-50 with constant play and I'm sure many people are the same. The need for grind will never fade away. If this 25 still remain as it is, I myself would grind most of the sets pieces I need and reconstruc the hard to get one or remaining part to complete what I have.

starkerealm wrote: »

chuynh729 wrote: »

Exactly. I'm glad you see it as well. People will do dungeons & trials more for the first few months. But afterwards, it really will become a grind for transmute stones.

This is, mostly, a semantic difference. Except for one critical detail. Crystal grinding is a (mostly) consistent grind. You may not get exactly the quantity you wanted, but you'll get something and make progress. Gear grind can be an exercise in frustration.

chuynh729 wrote: »

And yes, most likely people aren't going to transmute literally a whole set of gear. They'll probably have a few pieces already lying around somewhere. I was just saying that they could if they wanted to, in order to emphasize how low of a cost 25 crystals is.

For the most part, I agree. I suspect the primary use will be for someone to fill out missing parts of a set if they go back and regrind it.

A major portion of this is focused on alleviating inventory pressure. How many people were caught off guard when sheer venom, a set they may have accidentally farmed years ago while chasing after Scathing Mage, but junked because it was trash? This is the kind of thing this system is designed to counter. If you're like me, and saved a full 5pc Scathing Mage Sheer Venom because, "it might be useful," then great, you rolled the dice and won. However, it's very likely, you've also got another 800 inventory slots chewed up by sets that may never be useful on the idea of, "well, maybe this will be important some day," or, "I might need this for a tank," or even just, "this specific piece of this set is a pain to get, so I'll hold onto it, even if it doesn't work at all right now." (Ex: the Ebon 1h and shields I kept, in spite of the set being bugged for years if you had it on a weapon bar.)

This isn't designed to remove grind, or even ease grind. It's designed to standardize regrinding.

Remember, you can't reconstitute a piece you've never held. This is only a safeguard against, "I had an incredibly niche item, but I deconned it for space, but because of this last patch, it's important again," and, "I rolled an alt, and don't want to grind for another copy of this improbably rare drop." (Ex: BSW BBQ sticks, Maelstrom weapons, ect.)

The entire point of the system is a kind of inventory, "deep storage," and that goal starts to fail if it becomes cost prohibitive to pull things out of collections.

EDIT: Meant to type Sheer instead of Scathing there, though I suppose it works either way if Scathing ever becomes useful again.