swap Vigor with Siege Shield instead of Rapid

vgabor · August 2020

Dear @ZOS,

please listen to the forum feedback and do this change sensibly. Leave the Rapid as it is now for the new characters and swap Vigor with Siege Shield instead.

Thanks

[Edit for Petition.]

Atherakhia · August 2020

Agreed 100% with this.

Both Rapid and Vigor need to be the first skills to unlock and the most effective way to do this would be to simply move a support skill and put either rapid or vigor there.

Myrddin1357 · August 2020

vgabor wrote: »

Dear @ZOS,

please listen to the forum feedback and do this change sensibly. Leave the Rapid as it is now for the new characters and swap Vigor with Siege Shield instead.

Thanks

The intended Rapids change has to be the craziest change in this patch. Without Rapids, if you are on a untrained horse, you cannot get to any battle before it is over. For people who don't like BGs and who spend time in cyrodiil on newish characters this change has such a negative impact. Can't really understand what the though process is here.

Vigor may be a critical skill to have up front but so is Rapids.

Rex-Umbra · August 2020

They should switch vigor with breath of life...

Firstmep · August 2020

Myrddin1357 wrote: »

vgabor wrote: »

Dear @ZOS,

please listen to the forum feedback and do this change sensibly. Leave the Rapid as it is now for the new characters and swap Vigor with Siege Shield instead.

Thanks

The intended Rapids change has to be the craziest change in this patch. Without Rapids, if you are on a untrained horse, you cannot get to any battle before it is over. For people who don't like BGs and who spend time in cyrodiil on newish characters this change has such a negative impact. Can't really understand what the though process is here.

Vigor may be a critical skill to have up front but so is Rapids.

How would they sell their shiny new taxi mount if ppl can just complete a 1 minute quest and have a decently fast mount?

Rehdaun · August 2020

It's all said and done unfortunately. Zos has sledgehammered in their change like they always do, with zero understanding of players needs and wants and with no ear to listen to our complaints and recommendations. Nothing can change the minds of those that just don't care.

But hey at least the gankers will be happy picking off those low levels that haven't unlocked rapids yet

Dragonredux · August 2020

People have said this since Week 1, if they aren't changing it now then there is no hope.

ItsNotLiving · August 2020

Just PvP bro it takes 5 minutes to get vigor as it is on live I don’t see the point here.

Atherakhia · August 2020

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

Just PvP bro it takes 5 minutes to get vigor as it is on live I don’t see the point here.

Because it doesn't take 5 minutes bro. Even if you go into Cyrodiil, spam zone chat for a zerg group, and find that zerg group and happen to luck out and the zerg group is defending and not assaulting, it still takes 2 or 3 defenses to do this. That's easily an hour if not 2.

But that's best case scenario. In reality, you do the above and 9 times out of 10 you're assaulting things. Now you don't have access to Rapids to keep up with your group. So if you manage to get to the keep before it's already captured, great. But chances are you're so far behind the zerg and you'll be picked off.

mareeelb16_ESO · August 2020

[snip]

Meantime if I happen to end up in your BG while I level my alliance assault line, please redirect your ire to Zeni for forcing me into the whole exercise... I will do my best of course - but I'm pretty rubbish - and I have 14 alts to level... oh joy!

[Edit for Petition.]

Mix · August 2020

Agree!

I thought there would be a poll of some kind for voting in this thread

nk125x · August 2020

Absolutely pointless as I doubt they will listen

Anyron · August 2020

no.. this skill belongs to pvp skill line.. try to work for it a bit.
pvp skill line is still faster than undaunted btw

daim · August 2020

They are making the change so we would buy the skill line for alts ? Because it's main useful for leveling alts while dealing with slow mounts.

I do use it for mains too actively, but only because addons make it convenient to have - without addons I wouldn't bother using it at all.

Atherakhia · August 2020

Anyron wrote: »

no.. this skill belongs to pvp skill line.. try to work for it a bit.
pvp skill line is still faster than undaunted btw

Siege Shield is in a PvP line. It's in the support tree.

Kavar162 · August 2020

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

Just PvP bro it takes 5 minutes to get vigor as it is on live I don’t see the point here.

I really am astounded by how much people hate to grind in an...MMO...

Ylikollikas · August 2020

I agree, I don't see a reason why Siege Shields needs to be available instantly.

TheRealPotoroo · August 2020

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

Just PvP bro it takes 5 minutes to get vigor as it is on live I don’t see the point here.

Rubbish. It's hours of grinding at best and it's bad enough having to do it one one character, let alone lots. [snip]

[Edited to remove Bashing]

Sanctum74 · August 2020

Kavar162 wrote: »

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

Just PvP bro it takes 5 minutes to get vigor as it is on live I don’t see the point here.

I really am astounded by how much people hate to grind in an...MMO...

I don’t mind grinding, i just don’t like losing something i already had on all my characters.

My pvp characters don't even use it, but all my crafters/farmers do so its either go without rapids or i have to do skill respecs on them just so i can grind and then respec my skills back again.

So its not only the hours i lose grinding i will also be out around 200k gold for skill respecs to unlock a skill I already had. Its just a poor decision by Zos.

Atherakhia · August 2020

Sanctum74 wrote: »

Kavar162 wrote: »

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

Just PvP bro it takes 5 minutes to get vigor as it is on live I don’t see the point here.

I really am astounded by how much people hate to grind in an...MMO...

I don’t mind grinding, i just don’t like losing something i already had on all my characters.

My pvp characters don't even use it, but all my crafters/farmers do so its either go without rapids or i have to do skill respecs on them just so i can grind and then respec my skills back again.

So its not only the hours i lose grinding i will also be out around 200k gold for skill respecs to unlock a skill I already had. Its just a poor decision by Zos.

It's not even this for me. It's quite simple: ZOS is going through the effort to change this skill under the idea that they are doing it for the player but what they are doing is so shortsighted and counter productive it's a waste of time. Everyone gets Rapid Maneuvers because it's a chore running around on a mount that moves slower than you're sprinting speed. Only stamina classes use Vigor. So for every Mag player out there, they're making things worse, not better.

And why? Because ZOS is shortsighted and ignorant to what they're trying to achieve. The solution should have been obvious. They have a support tree that the majority of players wouldn't even notice if it were deleted in its entirety. They could have easily chosen any one of the 4 skills in that tree to just delete outright and replace with either vigor or rapids (whichever you feel is more support oriented in theme). They didn't even need to delete it as several of the skills are 'assault' themed anyway and could have easily been swapped.

The complaint is, like many of the changes they've been making as of late, ZOS is short sighted and ignorant to what the players want and/or need.

stefj68 · August 2020

as a stamplar that do not pvp and want too, i want vigor as my first skills since now its my main self heal abilities after ritual of retribution nerf...

AlnilamE · August 2020

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

Just PvP bro it takes 5 minutes to get vigor as it is on live I don’t see the point here.

My experience helping a guildie level her characters over the last couple of weeks is that it takes us about 2.5 to 3.5 hours to get a character from level 3 to level 5.

So if you are an experienced PvPer, it may take 5 minutes. If you are not, it's way longer than that.

idk · August 2020

I would recommend changing the tone of the thread as petitions are not permitted in the forums. I expect another word can be used to solicit the idea that the thread is merely intended to communicate the opinions of some players.

ZOS_GregoryV · August 2020

Greetings,

Upon review, we would like to remind everyone that Petitions are a violation of the Community Guidelines, and is stated as follows:

Petitions and Protests: We do not allow petitions or protests on our forums. Due to the fact that both promote the use of demands and replies that consist of “/signed” or little else, we feel that neither encourage nor allow for meaningful and constructive discussion. Instead of using a petition or protest, we recommend presenting your thoughts as a request or suggestion so everyone in the community can discuss it.

If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to review them here.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-

Hurbster · August 2020

ZOS_GregoryV wrote: »

Greetings,

Upon review, we would like to remind everyone that Petitions are a violation of the Community Guidelines, and is stated as follows:

Petitions and Protests: We do not allow petitions or protests on our forums. Due to the fact that both promote the use of demands and replies that consist of “/signed” or little else, we feel that neither encourage nor allow for meaningful and constructive discussion. Instead of using a petition or protest, we recommend presenting your thoughts as a request or suggestion so everyone in the community can discuss it.

If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to review them here.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-

Be obliged if you passed our concerns on.

SydneyGrey · August 2020

This is a terrible change. There were so many other ways ZOS could have done this that wouldn't have enraged half the community.

1. They could have left Rapids where it is, but allowed Vigor to be unlocked at Assault 2.
2. They could have placed Rapids as the first unlock in the Soul Magic skill line.
3. They could have put Rapids where Siege Shield is, and moved Siege Shield to the #2 unlock in that skill tree instead.

As-is this is a TERRIBLE change. Whoever thought of this didn't think it through. I suspect it was a person who hasn't created a new character in literally years, because he's forgotten what it's like to have a slow mount without Rapids.

Bucky_13 · August 2020

ZOS_GregoryV wrote: »

Greetings,

Upon review, we would like to remind everyone that Petitions are a violation of the Community Guidelines, and is stated as follows:

Petitions and Protests: We do not allow petitions or protests on our forums. Due to the fact that both promote the use of demands and replies that consist of “/signed” or little else, we feel that neither encourage nor allow for meaningful and constructive discussion. Instead of using a petition or protest, we recommend presenting your thoughts as a request or suggestion so everyone in the community can discuss it.

If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to review them here.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-

Considering the complete lack of communication from ZOS on this matter, despite a considerable backlash to this decision, what do you expect? Maybe try communicating with us instead of ignoring us when we speak up on decisions you make that we don't like. Especially on like this where there are other solutions that don't exactly take lot of effort to achieve.

ZOS_GregoryV · August 2020

Greetings all,

To help clarify, the primary purpose of us Moderators is to help maintain a safe and welcoming environment for the community to discuss the games. We aren't involved in communicating deeper game discussion, and leave those conversations to the Community Managers and Developers.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-

TheRealPotoroo · August 2020

ZOS_GregoryV wrote: »

Greetings all,

To help clarify, the primary purpose of us Moderators is to help maintain a safe and welcoming environment for the community to discuss the games. We aren't involved in communicating deeper game discussion, and leave those conversations to the Community Managers and Developers.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-

Is there a rule against moderators answering messages? Genuine question. @ZOS_GregoryV

LinearParadox · August 2020

ZOS_GregoryV wrote: »

Greetings all,

To help clarify, the primary purpose of us Moderators is to help maintain a safe and welcoming environment for the community to discuss the games. We aren't involved in communicating deeper game discussion, and leave those conversations to the Community Managers and Developers.

Thank you for your understanding,
-Greg-

This actually does clarify things. First mod post I think I've ever liked.

Jaraal · August 2020

I think everyone is missing the point here.

It’s becoming quite clear that the goal is not so much about giving stamina characters a heal, but rather (A) slowing players down to increase server performance, and (B) selling AvA skill lines to your alts as well as selling multi player mounts so the now slow characters will still be able to get around the battlefield with their groups.

This is not about QOL improvements. It’s about improving the bottom line.