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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8098811/#Comment_8098811
Thurvokun needs a downtime
Fawn4287
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This set has always been incredibly strong but lately its gone from being an annoying zerg tank favourite to the flavour of the month for Damage builds especially magica templars. The problem is minor maim and defile are incredibly strong debuffs, especially tied to an uncleansable aoe with no downtime. The idea of simply “walking out of it” doesn’t work when fighting a class with a gap closer and as a melee range build (Which everything other than a magsorc or magbalde is) you are essentially forced to fight and stand inside the AOE or not damage the opponent as even 1 tick of damage causes this set to proc.
It really needs to have its uptime reduced by making the proc cooldown able to proc after roughly 16 seconds so that there is some time based counter to it and a way to work around it rather than being constantly exposed to 2 such power debuffs with 100% uptime. Again something like a Single digit percentage chance proc would also work but how it stands is currently far too overpowered.
It really needs to have its uptime reduced by making the proc cooldown able to proc after roughly 16 seconds so that there is some time based counter to it and a way to work around it rather than being constantly exposed to 2 such power debuffs with 100% uptime. Again something like a Single digit percentage chance proc would also work but how it stands is currently far too overpowered.
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ZeroXFF✭✭✭✭✭
✭It has a downtime in form of not working at full range right away. Use their gap closer for your own advantage. Move away and let them charge at you outside of the Thurvokun AoE. It won't proc again until the previous AoE is gone.8 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭The set is currently abused by necros most of the times, especially stamina necromancer which gives you the option to stack both defiles. What's overtuned with Thorvukun isn't the defile but the minor maim part of the set.
Due to minor maim being applied first in the damage mitigation formula, it becomes ridiculously powerful as a defensive tool. In my opinion ZOS needs to reduce minor maim to 8% down from 15%.
Another suggestion is to rework Thorvukun completely. When you fight Thorvukun in Fanglair, he will sometimes shoot out 3 frontal cones of frost. I've seen some people complaining about there not being any good frost based damage set (iceheart doesn't count since it barely does any damage). Would be cool to rework Thorvukun so you shoot out 1-3 frontal cones of frostdamage in front of your characters instead of how it currently works.
@ESO_Nightingale I know you are more into the frost theme. How would such an idea work out?Edited by Qbiken on March 31, 2020 6:24AM2 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Thurvokun does not need a downtime. The set is fine, and easily countered by taking a few steps back.
I don’t get why anyone is trying to come up with new ideas to destroy old sets. This one has been in the game since Dragon Bones, over 2 years ago, and has never been a problem before.6 -
MashmalloMan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭WrathOfInnos wrote: »Thurvokun does not need a downtime. The set is fine, and easily countered by taking a few steps back.
I don’t get why anyone is trying to come up with new ideas to destroy old sets. This one has been in the game since Dragon Bones, over 2 years ago, and has never been a problem before.
The downtime is the fact that it "grows".. it's literally 8s of growing from 1m to (I think) 8m radius. It's very easy to spot and avoid, but people walk through it like it's nbd. The downtime is an 8s aoe on floor that doesn't even start at a reliable radius. We should not ask to fix things that aren't broken.Due to minor maim being applied first in the damage mitigation formula, it becomes ridiculously powerful as a defensive tool. In my opinion ZOS needs to reduce minor maim to 8% down from 15%.
I actually like this. I think all major/minor buffs need to be reworked to the same level, something like 8/20% or 10/20%. It must be confusing for new players to see all these varying numbers for seemingly no reason.
They should also abandon crit as an abitrary number instead of a percentage like it shows up on your character sheet. Why do I get 833 crit from a 2 piece bonus? Why not just write 3.8%? Constantly having to do math that the game should just do for us.
Crit Resist also makes no sense. It doesn't follow the same math as crit chance and new players don't understand that it doesn't reduce crit chance, it reduces crit damage. Crit chance is 1% = 219. Crit dmg is 1% = 68. Why?
Lets add light attacks restoring 200 resource, but doing 22% of the damage done on live while also buffing heavy attacks so much that a 2handed heavy attack does the same damage as it's own cast time spammable. Wtf?Edited by MashmalloMan on March 31, 2020 10:07AMPC Beta - 1900+ CP
Stam Sorc Khajiit PvE/PVP Main || Stam Sorc Dark Elf PvP ||
Stam Templar Dark Elf || Stam Warden Wood Elf || Stam DK Nord || Stam Necro Orc || Stam Blade Khajiit
Mag Sorc High Elf || Mag Templar High Elf || Mag Warden Breton || Mag Necro Khajiit || Mag Blade Khajiit1 -
MattT1988✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭A lot of PvE tanks like this set. Don’t stuff around with it just because a couple of PVPers can’t be arsed to walk out of a green cloud.6 -
olsborg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It deals dmg (albeit not much), puts minor defile and minor maim and has a very high uptime, nerf nerf nerf imo
PC EU
PvP only0 -
Fawn4287✭✭✭✭✭
✭People saying walk out of it obviously don’t understand what being a melee range build means, you literally camp it until it expires, gap close to the person you are fighting then it procs the moment you take damage. The melee build you are fighting backs away out of melee range, camp it again gap close when it expires. Its literally a stale mate standing outside and unable to do damage or get in melee range and be effected by it.1 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I am fine with making minor main 8% through battle spirit (in pvp zones) no reason to nerf pve for this ***3 -
ZOS_FalcoYamaokaadminGreetings,
We had to remove some posts as it violated our rules around baiting. Please be sure to keep discussions civil and constructive. If you have any questions about the actions being taken, please take a moment to review our community rules here.0 -
WrathOfInnos✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭People saying walk out of it obviously don’t understand what being a melee range build means, you literally camp it until it expires, gap close to the person you are fighting then it procs the moment you take damage. The melee build you are fighting backs away out of melee range, camp it again gap close when it expires. Its literally a stale mate standing outside and unable to do damage or get in melee range and be effected by it.
Plenty of things in this game cause a stalemate. Think of a troll tank vs troll tank fight, nobody will ever win. It’s only a balance problem if someone is nearly invincible while also having high offense. If someone wants to hide in their “safe zone” and deal little or no damage to you, why do you feel entitled to be able to kill them? Also being a pure melee build is a choice, put on a staff or bow if you want to be able to counter this situation.4 -
Stx✭✭✭✭✭
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That is true of many sets and skills though... If you choose to not move and stand in your own beneficial aoes, that has nothing to do with this monster set.5 -
Dracane✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Thorvukin is one part of this obnoxious tank pvp meta, where everyone plays immortal builds, carried by broken classes and exploitable set while stacking up with enough players to combine their onslaughts to still kill everyone.
It is annoying and while I personally do not blame this set, it definately is one factor in all of this. I really hope Greymoor puts an end to this meta and makes pvp fun again.Auri-El is my lord,
Trinimac is my shield,
Magnus is my mind.0 -
precambria✭✭✭✭✭It doesn't need down TIME it already has down SPACE which is everywhere outside of the slowly expanding puddle you can clearly see.3 -
Sahidom✭✭✭✭There's an old MMO phrase, "Don't stand in the red." It still applies today.
Unless the person standing in the red hasn't gotten the memo, but it's one of the better sets to counter some of these tanky builds. Most people will not stand there and continually get debuffed. If you're mobile than the set is near useless.0 -
Emma_Overload✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭People saying walk out of it obviously don’t understand what being a melee range build means, you literally camp it until it expires, gap close to the person you are fighting then it procs the moment you take damage. The melee build you are fighting backs away out of melee range, camp it again gap close when it expires. Its literally a stale mate standing outside and unable to do damage or get in melee range and be effected by it.
Melee builds need to have SOME disadvantages.#CAREBEARMASTERRACE3 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ever-unhappy PvP players trying to screw up PvE tanks again? Why am I not surprised. Sheesh, make battle spirit force people to fight naked and with sticks already, that will stop endless stream of "wa-a-ah, I can't kill that with one button click, plz nerf" complaints.
It's like kiting is already not a thing. Get the bloody out of range, make the opponent move, and the proc will be wasted. Stop gutting sets that are useful for actual -majority- of game population.3 -
ecru✭✭✭✭✭
✭People saying walk out of it obviously don’t understand what being a melee range build means, you literally camp it until it expires, gap close to the person you are fighting then it procs the moment you take damage. The melee build you are fighting backs away out of melee range, camp it again gap close when it expires. Its literally a stale mate standing outside and unable to do damage or get in melee range and be effected by it.
i think people who say "walk out of it" just don't pvp at allGryphon Heart
Godslayer
Dawnbringer1 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭MashmalloMan wrote: »Crit Resist also makes no sense. It doesn't follow the same math as crit chance and new players don't understand that it doesn't reduce crit chance, it reduces crit damage. Crit chance is 1% = 219. Crit dmg is 1% = 68. Why?
50% normal resistance = 33500
50% crit resistance = 3350 (I believe)
I assume this may be a relic from the early days of the game where every value was 1/10th its current value, if my memory is right
Edit: or 34000 and 3400 = 50%, whichever it is
Edited by Urzigurumash on April 4, 2020 1:19PMXbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast0 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭What we need is a Monster set for Stam which gives a purge, but for some reason doesn't work with Templars, Necros, or Wardens (and which works more than every 35 seconds and assuredly purges you and not a teammate)
I.e. StamSorcs/DKs/Blades need a purge
Wyrd Tree and Curse Eater aren't good on Stam, Purge is too expensive. Is there something I'm missing?
Edit: Yes I did miss Earthgore, which I actually started wearing this patch here and there on my StamDK. It's ok, maybe almost as good as Troll King post-Rally nerf
Edited by Urzigurumash on April 4, 2020 1:37PMXbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast0 -
Urzigurumash✭✭✭✭✭
✭But, as I mention Earthgore, which I think we all find generally insufficient as a selfish survival set compared to Bloodspawn or TK, it does bring to mind the fact that Thurvokun is probably always a horrible choice for 1v1. So, if your team is losing to teams using Thurvokun, could it not be construed simply as a reminder that you really ought to have Templars / Necros / Earthgore in a group? (We will not regard 1vX or Xv1 considerations as anything meaningful pertaining to balance.)
Anyhow it's not like most groups don't have other sources of Minor Maim and Minor Defile.Xbox NA AD / Day 1 ScrubDK / Wood Orc Cuisine Enthusiast0 -
Fawn4287✭✭✭✭✭
✭Thurvokun:
Reduced the damage per tick of this set to 100, down from 430.
Increased the cooldown to 16 seconds, up from 8 seconds.
Developer Comment:
Spoiler
Since this set was essentially a permanent (and then some) uptime of Minor Defile and Maim, it was significantly stronger than other enfeebling sets. We decided to retain the extra breathing room of 4 seconds on the debuff to ensure targets that leave the area are still afflicted for a time afterwards, and adjusted the cooldown to better account for that uptime. For stationary targets, the total uptime will now be 12 seconds with a 16 second cooldown.0 -
John_Falstaff✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Once again PvP whiners who can't make people follow them out of AoE make the game worse. Why I'm not surprised.5 -
Fawn4287✭✭✭✭✭
✭John_Falstaff wrote: »Once again PvP whiners who can't make people follow them out of AoE make the game worse. Why I'm not surprised.
Ever heard of low slash? Lmao its not like tanks don’t run a board and its 100% uptime1 -
zvavi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »Once again PvP whiners who can't make people follow them out of AoE make the game worse. Why I'm not surprised.
Ever heard of low slash? Lmao its not like tanks don’t run a board and its 100% uptime
Have you heard of no bar space? And low slash being single target vs AOE minor maim? I mean ye sure, thurvakun was strong for what it did, both pve and pvp. But you know what? Sets are supposed to feel strong. Keep the nerfs up. Funny that it is the same community that asks for build variety, but also asks for anything unique slowly nerfed and butchered.Edited by zvavi on April 21, 2020 11:00AM2 -
Qbiken✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭John_Falstaff wrote: »Once again PvP whiners who can't make people follow them out of AoE make the game worse. Why I'm not surprised.
Ever heard of low slash? Lmao its not like tanks don’t run a board and its 100% uptime
Have you heard of no bar space? And low slash being single target vs AOE minor maim? I mean ye sure, thurvakun was strong for what it did, both pve and pvp. But you know what? Sets are supposed to feel strong. Keep the nerfs up. Funny that it is the same community that asks for classes not to be the same, but also asks for anything unique slowly nerfed and butchered.
If you don't have barspace for low slash on a tank in pve your priorities needs to be revaluated.
Thorvukun change is very much needed.0
