Streak and convert spamming is a huge issue plaguing this game

Crixus8000 · February 2020

Stamsorc is already not in the best spot and you want to take away the only 2 things that make it decent ?

It already has no class ult, no class damage skills and no buffs/debuffs so what would it have without dark deal and streak/bol ?

fred4 · February 2020

I can't get past the title of this thread. A huge issue plaguing this game? Nope, those skills do not come to mind.

ketsparrowhawk · February 2020

Just needs to be made blockable again.

Joinovikova · February 2020

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Just needs to be made blockable again.

No it not need until they make other unblockabke stuns blockable...

ZOS_Volpe · February 2020

Greetings all,

After removing a handful of posts, we must remind everyone that all should be kept civil, constructive, and within the guidelines of the rules that we have in place. If there may be any questions in regards to the rules, please feel free to take a few moments to review them here.

Thank you for your understanding

butterrum222 · February 2020

Streak looks cool

Luede · February 2020

Fawn4287 wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

3.8k magicka lowered to 3k magicka.
33% stacking cost increased to 80%.
4s stacking cost duration increased to 6s.

So live:

Mag Sorc Breton 5 Light. (78% cost)
3780 mag * .78 = 2949 mag
2949 * 1.33 = 3931
3931 * 1.33 = 5228

Spamming streak 3x gives you 45m distance, enough time to Dark Conversion 2-3 times, allowing the 4s cost increase to stop and gaining back all the magicka spent.

Dark Conversion = 2161 * 0.94(class passive) * 0.98 (1 med) = 1991 stam

Converting 3982 stam into 7.2k magicka + magicka regen over 4-6 seconds is roughly 10-13k magicka restored.

5228 + 3931 + 2949 = 12,108 magicka.

So in this scenario, the mag sorc can continuously do this loop with the same amount of magicka pretty easily. With a decreased cost and increased stacking bonus, this loop changes.

Mag Sorc Breton 5 Light. (78% cost)
3000 mag * 0.78 = 2340 mag (609 less than live)
2340 mag * 1.8 = 4212 mag (281 more than live)
4212 mag * 1.8 = 7582 mag (2354 more than live)

7582 + 4212 + 2340 = 14,134 magicka. (2k more than live)

Lets not forget the +6 second stacking cool down I suggested here, forces the Sorc to wait or else they will have to spend 13,648 more magicka on a 4th cast which would take 3 dark conversions just to recover from alone, a 4th cast of streak would of been 6969 magicka without the change. This amount of stamina drain is very difficult to sustain and leaves them vulnerable.

I like the thinking, however at the moment many stamsorcs use streak to avoid execute. It shouldn’t be such a powerful magica ability that is so accessible to stamina, compare this to Petrify which has no aoe or gap close Is 4050 base cost and the removal of it from the average stam dks toolkit is much healthier gameplay that when they all ran it. From the maths, I can see that 100% cost increase is too much, however moved to 50-60% cost increase. However a high base cost is needed, unless the gap close removed.

ok, so u are playing a DK and complain about stam sorcs?

Sneakers · February 2020

Luede wrote: »

Fawn4287 wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

3.8k magicka lowered to 3k magicka.
33% stacking cost increased to 80%.
4s stacking cost duration increased to 6s.

So live:

Mag Sorc Breton 5 Light. (78% cost)
3780 mag * .78 = 2949 mag
2949 * 1.33 = 3931
3931 * 1.33 = 5228

Spamming streak 3x gives you 45m distance, enough time to Dark Conversion 2-3 times, allowing the 4s cost increase to stop and gaining back all the magicka spent.

Dark Conversion = 2161 * 0.94(class passive) * 0.98 (1 med) = 1991 stam

Converting 3982 stam into 7.2k magicka + magicka regen over 4-6 seconds is roughly 10-13k magicka restored.

5228 + 3931 + 2949 = 12,108 magicka.

So in this scenario, the mag sorc can continuously do this loop with the same amount of magicka pretty easily. With a decreased cost and increased stacking bonus, this loop changes.

Mag Sorc Breton 5 Light. (78% cost)
3000 mag * 0.78 = 2340 mag (609 less than live)
2340 mag * 1.8 = 4212 mag (281 more than live)
4212 mag * 1.8 = 7582 mag (2354 more than live)

7582 + 4212 + 2340 = 14,134 magicka. (2k more than live)

Lets not forget the +6 second stacking cool down I suggested here, forces the Sorc to wait or else they will have to spend 13,648 more magicka on a 4th cast which would take 3 dark conversions just to recover from alone, a 4th cast of streak would of been 6969 magicka without the change. This amount of stamina drain is very difficult to sustain and leaves them vulnerable.

I like the thinking, however at the moment many stamsorcs use streak to avoid execute. It shouldn’t be such a powerful magica ability that is so accessible to stamina, compare this to Petrify which has no aoe or gap close Is 4050 base cost and the removal of it from the average stam dks toolkit is much healthier gameplay that when they all ran it. From the maths, I can see that 100% cost increase is too much, however moved to 50-60% cost increase. However a high base cost is needed, unless the gap close removed.

ok, so u are playing a DK and complain about stam sorcs?

Imagine now if streak had stun + root on SAME immunity timer WOULDNT THAT BE CRAZY HUH?

Wait a minute..

NordSwordnBoard · February 2020

First off, have you played Magsorc and used streak? Do you know what your asking for from experience on both the giving and receiving end? It doesn't sound that way.

Secondly, streak works very well against the blocking sword and board types you dislike as well. You can stun 2 using guard at the same time if you time it well. Hmmm, what other unblockable stuns exist in the game? Think about what you might be taking away from the whole "ecosystem", one pest species could be preying upon worse pests.

Fawn4287 wrote: »

This would help improve sorc sustain in PVE and stop the spamming of a poorly balanced ability.

Oh, Win-Win how convenient! All the PvE Stam sorcs also now support your argument lol It was all a disguised buff pve stamsorc thread everybody!

ku5h · February 2020

Naftal wrote: »

***5h wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

But if you CC break free Streak you cannot be stunned for another 7s and with conversion you can use an interrupt (like Crushing Shock/ Flying Daggers/ Venom Arrow)

Do you really think that ppl who make this kind of treads even know that interrupt exist in this game?!
It's obvious he never played the class since he doesn't even know mechanics behind the skill he want's nerfed.
99% of nerf sorc treads are made by ppl who never played the class.

It's obvious that people like you have no counter argument but still want to disagree. 99% of nerf cry comments are made by players who don't understand balance.

Said by a guy who wants to nerf skill of which he doesnt even know basic mechanics.
You' te just like every other nerf sorc cry baby, no point arguing with childr

Naftal wrote: »

***5h wrote: »

LeHarrt91 wrote: »

But if you CC break free Streak you cannot be stunned for another 7s and with conversion you can use an interrupt (like Crushing Shock/ Flying Daggers/ Venom Arrow)

Do you really think that ppl who make this kind of treads even know that interrupt exist in this game?!
It's obvious he never played the class since he doesn't even know mechanics behind the skill he want's nerfed.
99% of nerf sorc treads are made by ppl who never played the class.

It's obvious that people like you have no counter argument but still want to disagree. 99% of nerf cry comments are made by players who don't understand balance.

Do you argue about fine nuances of world economy with a child?! Ofc not.
Same thing here. You know nothing on the subject. No point making an argument.

ketsparrowhawk · February 2020

Joinovikova wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Just needs to be made blockable again.

No it not need until they make other unblockabke stuns blockable...

Not all stuns need to function the same way. Sorc has a very well-rounded toolkit. An unblockable stun in the form of streak is a bit much when added on top of everything else they have access to. If DK had the range, mobility, and burst potential of a Sorc then sure.. make fossilize blockable too.

Joinovikova · February 2020

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

ketsparrowhawk wrote: »

Just needs to be made blockable again.

No it not need until they make other unblockabke stuns blockable...

Not all stuns need to function the same way. Sorc has a very well-rounded toolkit. An unblockable stun in the form of streak is a bit much when added on top of everything else they have access to. If DK had the range, mobility, and burst potential of a Sorc then sure.. make fossilize blockable too.

DK has strongest DOT options best tanking options and best burst ultimate.. they also do not need unblockable stun... but they have okay so Sorc need also..

MashmalloMan · February 2020

dazee wrote: »

What do you expect people to do? they completely gutted power surge. Dark Conversion is janky and hard to use well in a rotation due to the long cast time, its a skill I never even touched before I literally was forced to.

Calling it OP is delusional.

How did they gut Power Surge? If anything Mag Sorcs received a buff because you swapped your go-to morph to Crit Surge and got 3.3k heal ticks instead of 2.5k for the same 33s of Major Sorcery. Sorcs gained a healer morph, they didn't gut anything.

Dark Conversion is not janky to use and it's in the best place it's ever been, the cast time is 1s when it use to be 1.2s. This reduced cast time is coupled with the reduced delay on cast time abilities that use to be about 0.2s causing the actual cast time to be a total of 1.4s. Now, there is 0 delay. The total resources was also buffed from 4696 to 6000 which is 28% more, albeit with a small upfront nerf to 3600, but 2400 over 20s. Arguably one of the best and most reasonable balance passes to come from ZOS.

Learn to use it at the right moments, you're not forced to use anything, you can take it off your bar and use a sustain pvp set if you find that more viable. There are tons of sorc pvp builds without the ability slotted.

Your "rotation" comment leads me to believe your speaking about pve which I will agree on, dark deal/conversion is not great in a pve rotation, but you chose rather weak arguments against OP.

Fawn4287 · February 2020

Luede wrote: »

Fawn4287 wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

MashmalloMan wrote: »

3.8k magicka lowered to 3k magicka.
33% stacking cost increased to 80%.
4s stacking cost duration increased to 6s.

So live:

Mag Sorc Breton 5 Light. (78% cost)
3780 mag * .78 = 2949 mag
2949 * 1.33 = 3931
3931 * 1.33 = 5228

Spamming streak 3x gives you 45m distance, enough time to Dark Conversion 2-3 times, allowing the 4s cost increase to stop and gaining back all the magicka spent.

Dark Conversion = 2161 * 0.94(class passive) * 0.98 (1 med) = 1991 stam

Converting 3982 stam into 7.2k magicka + magicka regen over 4-6 seconds is roughly 10-13k magicka restored.

5228 + 3931 + 2949 = 12,108 magicka.

So in this scenario, the mag sorc can continuously do this loop with the same amount of magicka pretty easily. With a decreased cost and increased stacking bonus, this loop changes.

Mag Sorc Breton 5 Light. (78% cost)
3000 mag * 0.78 = 2340 mag (609 less than live)
2340 mag * 1.8 = 4212 mag (281 more than live)
4212 mag * 1.8 = 7582 mag (2354 more than live)

7582 + 4212 + 2340 = 14,134 magicka. (2k more than live)

Lets not forget the +6 second stacking cool down I suggested here, forces the Sorc to wait or else they will have to spend 13,648 more magicka on a 4th cast which would take 3 dark conversions just to recover from alone, a 4th cast of streak would of been 6969 magicka without the change. This amount of stamina drain is very difficult to sustain and leaves them vulnerable.

I like the thinking, however at the moment many stamsorcs use streak to avoid execute. It shouldn’t be such a powerful magica ability that is so accessible to stamina, compare this to Petrify which has no aoe or gap close Is 4050 base cost and the removal of it from the average stam dks toolkit is much healthier gameplay that when they all ran it. From the maths, I can see that 100% cost increase is too much, however moved to 50-60% cost increase. However a high base cost is needed, unless the gap close removed.

ok, so u are playing a DK and complain about stam sorcs?

No, I just think that there should be an equality when it comes to skill damage/utility and cost and at the moment streak does not adhere to that, toppling charge is another skill in a similar boat, its a stun, damage and off balance and Ive made posts about that before.

Anyron · February 2020

I agree with removing stun from streak. That is just abused by ballgroups atm.

You have to remember that streak is most expensive spell in game. There isnt just as expensive by far. Just slot gapcloser and you can spam it with fracture of streak cost, following streaking sorc.

I tested it with templar and nightblade gapclosers and it works perfectly. Even better is Critical Rush from 2h. That damage is significant and no sorc can sustain spamming shield (base cost 4200) with streak and streak penalisation.

There are ways how to deal easily with streaking sorc. Its just noone is using gapclosers anymore. I say something similar to nightblades. Like cloak it has counters. Just use them

MartiniDaniels · February 2020

Streak hard-counters full melee S&B backbar builds (in open world). So if you'll nerf streak those slow builds which really plague PVP now, they will become even more dominant and will crawl out from resource towers.

So far streak is most powerful ability against me now... but... but it is interesting to fight against it. No need to nerf it, only thing which must be done is to add unchained perk as default so it will work in no-CP too. Because sustaining against streak spam in no-CP is really hard.

MartiniDaniels · February 2020

Anyron wrote: »

I agree with removing stun from streak. That is just abused by ballgroups atm.

You have to remember that streak is most expensive spell in game. There isnt just as expensive by far. Just slot gapcloser and you can spam it with fracture of streak cost, following streaking sorc.

I tested it with templar and nightblade gapclosers and it works perfectly. Even better is Critical Rush from 2h. That damage is significant and no sorc can sustain spamming shield (base cost 4200) with streak and streak penalisation.

There are ways how to deal easily with streaking sorc. Its just noone is using gapclosers anymore. I say something similar to nightblades. Like cloak it has counters. Just use them

Minimal LOS and your gap closer won't work. Streak stun through you + another streak and you are out of gap closer range. If sorc maintains his resources properly he can disengage at will in 95% of cases and only another sorc can catch him.

Beardimus · February 2020

Nerf sorc threads come in all shapes and sizes and they never get old do they

Joinovikova · February 2020

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

I agree with removing stun from streak. That is just abused by ballgroups atm.

You have to remember that streak is most expensive spell in game. There isnt just as expensive by far. Just slot gapcloser and you can spam it with fracture of streak cost, following streaking sorc.

I tested it with templar and nightblade gapclosers and it works perfectly. Even better is Critical Rush from 2h. That damage is significant and no sorc can sustain spamming shield (base cost 4200) with streak and streak penalisation.

There are ways how to deal easily with streaking sorc. Its just noone is using gapclosers anymore. I say something similar to nightblades. Like cloak it has counters. Just use them

Minimal LOS and your gap closer won't work. Streak stun through you + another streak and you are out of gap closer range. If sorc maintains his resources properly he can disengage at will in 95% of cases and only another sorc can catch him.

Why people do not understand what does it mean "OP" if some one in some cases are able to escape from you its not mean this is op and must be nerfed. mag sorc has no chance to win in mele combat agins decend mele player so only way is try to run and gain better position. Streak has many counter not only every charge is cheaper and can be spam. There is also another counter Channeled Acceleration.

Anyron · February 2020

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

I agree with removing stun from streak. That is just abused by ballgroups atm.

You have to remember that streak is most expensive spell in game. There isnt just as expensive by far. Just slot gapcloser and you can spam it with fracture of streak cost, following streaking sorc.

I tested it with templar and nightblade gapclosers and it works perfectly. Even better is Critical Rush from 2h. That damage is significant and no sorc can sustain spamming shield (base cost 4200) with streak and streak penalisation.

There are ways how to deal easily with streaking sorc. Its just noone is using gapclosers anymore. I say something similar to nightblades. Like cloak it has counters. Just use them

Minimal LOS and your gap closer won't work. Streak stun through you + another streak and you are out of gap closer range. If sorc maintains his resources properly he can disengage at will in 95% of cases and only another sorc can catch him.

It takes some time until you can use another streak. It isnt just as fast as you think and its much slower than pressing 3 buttons. Gap closers works on 22m distance while streak is to 15m so no sorc can get away with just one streak.

Los may be issue when fighting at rocks or when movement is limited but most of fights is in open or on flat surface so there is zero issue with gap closers. It always worked on streak i keep using it for several years.

You can also, when stunned with streak, break free and gain CC immunity so it isnt true you are always stunned and few sorcs can use more than 3-4 streaks without draining their magicka completely which is cowered by CC immunity.

For streaking sorc it is also huge magicka drain. To sustain this they have to invest more to regen than any other spec. So their damage isnt just as big.
Timed bombing is something else

Fawn4287 · February 2020

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

First off, have you played Magsorc and used streak? Do you know what your asking for from experience on both the giving and receiving end? It doesn't sound that way.

Secondly, streak works very well against the blocking sword and board types you dislike as well. You can stun 2 using guard at the same time if you time it well. Hmmm, what other unblockable stuns exist in the game? Think about what you might be taking away from the whole "ecosystem", one pest species could be preying upon worse pests.

Fawn4287 wrote: »

This would help improve sorc sustain in PVE and stop the spamming of a poorly balanced ability.

Oh, Win-Win how convenient! All the PvE Stam sorcs also now support your argument lol It was all a disguised buff pve stamsorc thread everybody!

Ive played magsorc more than any other class lol,

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Streak hard-counters full melee S&B backbar builds (in open world). So if you'll nerf streak those slow builds which really plague PVP now, they will become even more dominant and will crawl out from resource towers.

So far streak is most powerful ability against me now... but... but it is interesting to fight against it. No need to nerf it, only thing which must be done is to add unchained perk as default so it will work in no-CP too. Because sustaining against streak spam in no-CP is really hard.

Thats every build that isn’t a magsorc or a mag/stamblade pretty much, even magplar, magcro, magden, magdk are all pretty much melee builds with sword and board backbar.

Anyron · February 2020

Joinovikova wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

I agree with removing stun from streak. That is just abused by ballgroups atm.

You have to remember that streak is most expensive spell in game. There isnt just as expensive by far. Just slot gapcloser and you can spam it with fracture of streak cost, following streaking sorc.

I tested it with templar and nightblade gapclosers and it works perfectly. Even better is Critical Rush from 2h. That damage is significant and no sorc can sustain spamming shield (base cost 4200) with streak and streak penalisation.

There are ways how to deal easily with streaking sorc. Its just noone is using gapclosers anymore. I say something similar to nightblades. Like cloak it has counters. Just use them

Minimal LOS and your gap closer won't work. Streak stun through you + another streak and you are out of gap closer range. If sorc maintains his resources properly he can disengage at will in 95% of cases and only another sorc can catch him.

Why people do not understand what does it mean "OP" if some one in some cases are able to escape from you its not mean this is op and must be nerfed. mag sorc has no chance to win in mele combat agins decend mele player so only way is try to run and gain better position. Streak has many counter not only every charge is cheaper and can be spam. There is also another counter Channeled Acceleration.

Don't forget all melee skills are stronger, stamina melee are also cheaper than regular sorcerer skills and there is also 200ms minimal travel time ( which can be even more -to 400, depends on skill)

Sorcerer is ranged, there are disadvantages for it, yet they want you to play melee with them.

Joinovikova · February 2020

Anyron wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

I agree with removing stun from streak. That is just abused by ballgroups atm.

You have to remember that streak is most expensive spell in game. There isnt just as expensive by far. Just slot gapcloser and you can spam it with fracture of streak cost, following streaking sorc.

I tested it with templar and nightblade gapclosers and it works perfectly. Even better is Critical Rush from 2h. That damage is significant and no sorc can sustain spamming shield (base cost 4200) with streak and streak penalisation.

There are ways how to deal easily with streaking sorc. Its just noone is using gapclosers anymore. I say something similar to nightblades. Like cloak it has counters. Just use them

Minimal LOS and your gap closer won't work. Streak stun through you + another streak and you are out of gap closer range. If sorc maintains his resources properly he can disengage at will in 95% of cases and only another sorc can catch him.

Why people do not understand what does it mean "OP" if some one in some cases are able to escape from you its not mean this is op and must be nerfed. mag sorc has no chance to win in mele combat agins decend mele player so only way is try to run and gain better position. Streak has many counter not only every charge is cheaper and can be spam. There is also another counter Channeled Acceleration.

Don't forget all melee skills are stronger, stamina melee are also cheaper than regular sorcerer skills and there is also 200ms minimal travel time ( which can be even more -to 400, depends on skill)

Sorcerer is ranged, there are disadvantages for it, yet they want you to play melee with them.

I understand when people cry about mag sorc in 2016 when y mag sorc was unbalanced, but cry now after all nerfs?... and with reason I am not able to hunt and instant kill mag sorc on my heavy resistant meta build and sorc sometime escape from my kill combo....

Anyron · February 2020

Joinovikova wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

Anyron wrote: »

I agree with removing stun from streak. That is just abused by ballgroups atm.

You have to remember that streak is most expensive spell in game. There isnt just as expensive by far. Just slot gapcloser and you can spam it with fracture of streak cost, following streaking sorc.

I tested it with templar and nightblade gapclosers and it works perfectly. Even better is Critical Rush from 2h. That damage is significant and no sorc can sustain spamming shield (base cost 4200) with streak and streak penalisation.

There are ways how to deal easily with streaking sorc. Its just noone is using gapclosers anymore. I say something similar to nightblades. Like cloak it has counters. Just use them

Minimal LOS and your gap closer won't work. Streak stun through you + another streak and you are out of gap closer range. If sorc maintains his resources properly he can disengage at will in 95% of cases and only another sorc can catch him.

Why people do not understand what does it mean "OP" if some one in some cases are able to escape from you its not mean this is op and must be nerfed. mag sorc has no chance to win in mele combat agins decend mele player so only way is try to run and gain better position. Streak has many counter not only every charge is cheaper and can be spam. There is also another counter Channeled Acceleration.

Don't forget all melee skills are stronger, stamina melee are also cheaper than regular sorcerer skills and there is also 200ms minimal travel time ( which can be even more -to 400, depends on skill)

Sorcerer is ranged, there are disadvantages for it, yet they want you to play melee with them.

I understand when people cry about mag sorc in 2016 when y mag sorc was unbalanced, but cry now after all nerfs?... and with reason I am not able to hunt and instant kill mag sorc on my heavy resistant meta build and sorc sometime escape from my kill combo....

Its just fashion these days.

Zer0_CooL · February 2020

There's a decent amount of Zombie Bosmer in Greenshade. Maybe you should go 1vX them instead.

Solariken · February 2020

Streak stun and damage should be blockable. Sorc already has Rune Cage as unblockable stun. Then they would have a stun that owns rollies and a stun that owns blocktards, but not one stun that does both.

Lord-Otto · February 2020

Solariken wrote: »

Streak stun and damage should be blockable. Sorc already has Rune Cage as unblockable stun. Then they would have a stun that owns rollies and a stun that owns blocktards, but not one stun that does both.

Rune Cage is useless.

Joinovikova · February 2020

Solariken wrote: »

Streak stun and damage should be blockable. Sorc already has Rune Cage as unblockable stun. Then they would have a stun that owns rollies and a stun that owns blocktards, but not one stun that does both.

if they remove pre effect which can also write DODGE ROLL u will get stun, than okay it can be valid argument.

Joy_Division · February 2020

I find a good nerf sorc thread as amusing as the next person, but can we please wait until they are at least meta before making them?

Also the flip-flopping cycle of nerf and buff has got to have the devs confused. The community didn't like sorcs spamming CCs and burst damage from 41 meters away, so it was proposed that a Streak stun ought to be unblockable to match other classes unshockable CCs and it would encourage a sorc to play aggressive and in close quarters. Now that's too much, so instead I guess we want the sorcs fighting from 41 meters away again and picking the Ball of Lighting morph which encourages the very cowardly style that we supposedly dislike?

deepseamk20b14_ESO · February 2020

It is fairly overloaded on what it does. wont argue with you there. I use it on both mag sorc and stam sorc. Orc+major expedition+sprint+steed mundus+minor expedition+streak is ridiculously fun. Id prefer they dont nerf sorc though....ZoS is not known for their gentle hand....