A vast majority of players are asking to remove cast times

FrankonPC · January 2020

Joy_Division wrote: »

...

I should have read this before I commented. Well said.

FrankonPC · January 2020

TheFM wrote: »

A low reaction time is better than none. And there is nothing you can say that would change my mind. Cast times on ultimates are fine, abilities should not do damage before they hit, that's just toxic gameplay. And I am 100 percent fine with the cast times. And clearly some agree, as well as the Devs.

"Some" do agree!

MehrunesFlagon · January 2020

Drdeath20 wrote: »

Certain skills should have cast times when its merited.

Which is never.

Sevn · January 2020

Not a fan of cast times. That being said, I fully believe Joy. The Devs hear and know the complaints, they simply disagree.

If I had a vision for my game and how I wanted it to play damn right I'm going to do so, regardless of how long it took/takes me to see it thru. Especially if I'm confident in my vision.

Not a single person would complain about them fixing the lag or another "bug" that has plagued the game for years. I've seen the qoute where they did say this was unintended. It's obvious it took so long because either it wasn't a priority or they were too embarrassed to acknowledge they couldn't figure out how to "fix" it.

Seems they are now trying to do just that. Is it going to be accepted by the players who have spent years enjoying this unintended mechanic? Nope, but to any creative person they won't be satisfied until their vision has been throughly set.

Will it be successful? Remains to be seen. One thing I've learned about ZOS over these years is that they are not afraid of shaking things up and testing the waters to see what floats. See faction locks and all the different experiments they are trying with that to determine what works best.

exeeter702 · January 2020

MashmalloMan wrote: »

Honestly, I main Stam Sorc in PvP with the 2H ult I have next to no problems with the cast time. I don't like bashing after abilities anyway and that's what the cast time really prevents here. I simply don't block/roll dodge after I cast the ultimate. It's only 0.4s.

The crappy feeling is getting it canceled, but isn't that the entire point of the cast time? Counterplay..

Idk, I'll take it either way, but with the 70-90 ping and stable frame rate I get, it hasn't bothered me too much yet. Perhaps this is why I don't notice a huge problem where others do.

As a quick comparison, I play a lot of Battlerite which is a top down arena based fighting game with abilities, cooldowns and ultimates. There is no cc immunity whatsoever. Many abilities cast in 0.3 - 1s cast time animations that can be canceled by yourself (there is a button for it) or other players easily (many counters and stuns). The game feels extremely fun to play and I never feel cheated or clunky for losing an ability that has a cast time. Half the engagement is knowing when to use abilities so they don't get canceled by your enemy. I treat ESO the same way.

Stun enemy first, then ultimate.. idk, 0.4s isn't huge to me. Don't kill me lol.

That's because battlerite owes more of its strengths to fighting game philosophy and arena based mmo pvp. Too bad it's dead. My pearl was next level.

TheFM · January 2020

[Removed quote]

[Edited for removed content] Everything I have heard so far is rationalization and people patting each other on the back because they agree with each other.

" the game is clunky now " I would argue it is more fluid now cuz you can actually see which ultimates are going off and you can actively react , and you still have to anticipate what that charging warden is going to do, now however they cant get the damage off before the ability even lands. .5 seconds reaction time is more than enough time for any normal person to react. .1 seconds is not.

Sanguinor2 · January 2020

TheFM wrote: »

Yeah, keep telling me how you can anticipate stealth ultis when you cant see or hear them. Everything I have heard so far is rationalization and people patting each other on the back because they agree with each other.

Question: How do cast times help with Stealth ults? Since the cast time is Shorter than cloak Duration you can still cast them invis without getting revealed or did zos do something to make that impossible? Been a while since I last played nightblade.

BohnT2 · January 2020

TheFM wrote: »

[Removed quote]

[Edited for removed content]. Everything I have heard so far is rationalization and people patting each other on the back because they agree with each other.

" the game is clunky now " I would argue it is more fluid now cuz you can actually see which ultimates are going off and you can actively react , and you still have to anticipate what that charging warden is going to do, now however they cant get the damage off before the ability even lands. .5 seconds reaction time is more than enough time for any normal person to react. .1 seconds is not.

And this is exactly what makes fights clunky.
You can avoid attacks even when you're not looking at the screen when it's being used.
You take away the whole part of predicting a fight which is a huge layer we need for the combat to be fun and engaging while also adding a big skill factor that can however be learned without needing reaction times because you can predict fights.

With casttimes you don't have to predict anything and the game turns into rock paper scizor but now you can always choose to let your opponent go first but then you have to choose the same thing as he did.

For the game this means, if you don't want to you're not going to die to anyone and this makes the game horribly stale and boring

jcm2606 · January 2020

TheFM wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

pieratsos wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

Strider__Roshin wrote: »

It's obvious that this was a bad decision. If ZOS doesn't revert the change it's a clear message that ZOS doesn't only ignore feedback, but also they lack the humility to admit that they were wrong.

Or they just know better in this case and don't listen to people who want something else than reactionary gameplay.

Reactionary gameplay is good and people should have ques to react but if u are basing that concept on less than half a second cast times then u screwed up big time. At their current iteration, those cast times, the only thing they achieve is making combat clunky, not making combat reactive nor do they give time to people to react.

I have plenty of time to react when I see ultis cast now, as it should be, and if I don't pay attention, I still die, as it should be. You however cannot react to something you cannot percieve, it's basic physics.

It's called anticipation and knowing the game. When you see a warden sub lining up, you should know what is coming for example. In fact that's what you are prety much doing now. Not actually seeing the ult beforehand and then reacting. And since you are talking about physics, you should probably know that is dumb to base the combat system around less than half a second reaction times.

And if you are going to implement a cast time on abilities, the abilities have to be designed with cast time in mind. Those ults were designed as instant. Slapping a cast time on them changes their design. They didn't implement counterplay. They essentially just nerfed instant burst ults and made combat clunky. And ironically even the reason they did this, is a total failure.

A low reaction time is better than none. And there is nothing you can say that would change my mind. Cast times on ultimates are fine, abilities should not do damage before they hit, that's just toxic gameplay. And I am 100 percent fine with the cast times. And clearly some agree, as well as the Devs.

Reaction time was and is virtually non-existent with performance as it is, and likely as it will always be. If you think there's reactive gameplay in PvP, you really don't know what you're talking about. Everything is predictive, not reactive.

jcm2606 · January 2020

Sevn wrote: »

Not a fan of cast times. That being said, I fully believe Joy. The Devs hear and know the complaints, they simply disagree.

If I had a vision for my game and how I wanted it to play damn right I'm going to do so, regardless of how long it took/takes me to see it thru. Especially if I'm confident in my vision.

Not a single person would complain about them fixing the lag or another "bug" that has plagued the game for years. I've seen the qoute where they did say this was unintended. It's obvious it took so long because either it wasn't a priority or they were too embarrassed to acknowledge they couldn't figure out how to "fix" it.

Seems they are now trying to do just that. Is it going to be accepted by the players who have spent years enjoying this unintended mechanic? Nope, but to any creative person they won't be satisfied until their vision has been throughly set.

Will it be successful? Remains to be seen. One thing I've learned about ZOS over these years is that they are not afraid of shaking things up and testing the waters to see what floats. See faction locks and all the different experiments they are trying with that to determine what works best.

The problem is, they aren't the ones dealing with this ***, we are. They aren't the ones keeping the money coming in, we are. You don't bite the hand that feeds you. When a huge portion of your player base is against a change, when your very own history has proven your judgement wrong time and time again, it's time to listen.

All it takes is them to majorly break something central to gameplay, like, say, thinking it's a good idea to add cast times to every skill in the game, killing combat fluidity -- which, if the new Stonefist is any indication, might be the direction they're heading -- and the game can potentially implode on them. And, given their track history, by the time they fix their mistake, the damage will already be done.

This is also reinforced by the fact that they don't even know their own damn game. Hell, their own justification for cast times on ults is factually incorrect -- outside of bugs within specific contexts or delayed skills, it's literally impossible to be hit with 3-4 abilities at once, because of the 1 second GCD.

Not only are they way more likely to push out a garbage change, since they lack a sufficient enough understanding to gauge the impact a change will have and hence its reception, but they're also way more unlikely to reverse said garbage change, because they're under the belief that they're not wrong, the players are wrong! <insert Simpsons "Am I out of touch?" meme>

I'm not saying to cater to every player who cries, because that's just as bad. But when the opinion as is unanimous as this, when your very own class reps, the group you formed to give an educated perspective on issues like this, tells you you're wrong, you might just maybe be wrong. Maybe, just maybe, reverse whatever changes you rolled out, or are thinking of rolling out. Saves you the headache of having the community scream at you for 6+ months, because it'll take you that long to address your garbage change.

Eraldus · January 2020

The very fact this topic has "vast majority of players" in is title is already a massive huge red flag for devs to not even take this topic seriously, because they know the OP has no actual valid data to back up his claim, lmao!

And linking a few threads related to the same topic hardly counts as anything meaningful (one of the topics had a whooping 75 agrees! OH WOW! THAT'S THE ENTIRE ESO PLAYERBASE, RIGHT GUYS??), because we all know that main reason people post in this board, is to complain about anything, so they'll just flock into whatever topic with negativity they see and make it look like there's a "vast majority of players" that wants something removed/added to the game.

ZOS_Volpe · January 2020

Greetings,

We've had to remove several posts for baiting and flaming, content that is against our Forum Rules. For further posts be sure to stay constructive and respectful to avoid thread derailment.

Thank you for understanding.

NobleX35 · January 2020

Cast times are Wheeler’s version of Wrobel’s AoE caps...no one wants them, they do nothing to help improve the quality of the gameplay, and they make combat feel worse. And considering how long it took Wrobel to finally get over his enigma, it’s unfortunately a safe bet that cast times are going to be around for a while.

With that said...

#removecasttimes

Nerftheforums · January 2020

Eraldus wrote: »

The very fact this topic has "vast majority of players" in is title is already a massive huge red flag for devs to not even take this topic seriously, because they know the OP has no actual valid data to back up his claim, lmao!

And linking a few threads related to the same topic hardly counts as anything meaningful (one of the topics had a whooping 75 agrees! OH WOW! THAT'S THE ENTIRE ESO PLAYERBASE, RIGHT GUYS??), because we all know that main reason people post in this board, is to complain about anything, so they'll just flock into whatever topic with negativity they see and make it look like there's a "vast majority of players" that wants something removed/added to the game.

The "vast majority" comes from community posts on yt made by several content creators (istherenoonelse, El lobo just to mention a couple), from the class rep discords, from private discords of pvpers on both pc na and pc EU, from approximately 150 players in the pc EU small scale community and "elitists" how some players would call them, front be dueling scene of pc EU and from the duelers on wayrest who tested last patch (not one person said they liked the changes) and 5.3.0, from feedback of every content creator I know on yt (not exaggerating, check my subscriptions on yt and control for yourself, che channel is Furleval ESO, you can see for yourself), from the class reps, from the forums and from reddit. Not in one, and I mean ONE, of these places there were more than 50% of people claiming that clast times were good. And I say half because the numbers I had were around 27% of people in support of cast times, but why should you believe me afterall, numbers are just opinions, innit?

FrankonPC · January 2020

Eraldus wrote: »

The very fact this topic has "vast majority of players" in is title is already a massive huge red flag for devs to not even take this topic seriously, because they know the OP has no actual valid data to back up his claim, lmao!

And linking a few threads related to the same topic hardly counts as anything meaningful (one of the topics had a whooping 75 agrees! OH WOW! THAT'S THE ENTIRE ESO PLAYERBASE, RIGHT GUYS??), because we all know that main reason people post in this board, is to complain about anything, so they'll just flock into whatever topic with negativity they see and make it look like there's a "vast majority of players" that wants something removed/added to the game.

I guess you missed these.

pieratsos · January 2020

Eraldus wrote: »

The very fact this topic has "vast majority of players" in is title is already a massive huge red flag for devs to not even take this topic seriously, because they know the OP has no actual valid data to back up his claim, lmao!

And linking a few threads related to the same topic hardly counts as anything meaningful (one of the topics had a whooping 75 agrees! OH WOW! THAT'S THE ENTIRE ESO PLAYERBASE, RIGHT GUYS??), because we all know that main reason people post in this board, is to complain about anything, so they'll just flock into whatever topic with negativity they see and make it look like there's a "vast majority of players" that wants something removed/added to the game.

Actually ZOS admitted that this change had a negative reaction from most. You can find the quote by joy in page 2. So feel free to go back and read it and when the embarrassment starts settling in and realize that you attempted to be the smart-ass and ended up making a fool of urself, feel free to see yourself out alongside everyone else with the same stupid argument that joy deleted with that post. Have fun reading.

Anotherone773 · January 2020

Community: " We want the game to be more challenging"
ZOS: " We added trial length dungeons with insane damage from literally everywhere. Its like walking through a warzone"
Community: " You couldnt come up with anything better? More universal? What about Overland?"
ZOS: (thinking)...
Community: " This game is to easy! We need a hard mode or something for the whole game."
ZOS: " We are revamping the combat system. We are adding cast times to most abilities." ( Doesnt tell them NPCs abilities dont suffer the same fate)
Community: " NOOOOOOOO!!!!!! WHYYYYYYYYYYY!!!!!!"
ZOS: " You did say you wanted it to be more challenging. Now it is. Instead of spamming the same rotations over and over like a factory worker you actually have to think and use strategy and counter strategy"
Community: " That is so dumb, make everything instant cast again. I want to be able to do 45 minutes of content in 15 minutes!"

Rianai · January 2020

Cast time on ults doesn't make pve more challenging.

Casterial · January 2020

ZOS_TrishM wrote: »

Greetings,

We've had to remove several posts for baiting and flaming, content that is against our Forum Rules. For further posts be sure to stay constructive and respectful to avoid thread derailment.

Thank you for understanding.

How did I know the only reply from Zenimax Employees is COPY AND PASTE.

Sevn · January 2020

jcm2606 wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

Not a fan of cast times. That being said, I fully believe Joy. The Devs hear and know the complaints, they simply disagree.

If I had a vision for my game and how I wanted it to play damn right I'm going to do so, regardless of how long it took/takes me to see it thru. Especially if I'm confident in my vision.

Not a single person would complain about them fixing the lag or another "bug" that has plagued the game for years. I've seen the qoute where they did say this was unintended. It's obvious it took so long because either it wasn't a priority or they were too embarrassed to acknowledge they couldn't figure out how to "fix" it.

Seems they are now trying to do just that. Is it going to be accepted by the players who have spent years enjoying this unintended mechanic? Nope, but to any creative person they won't be satisfied until their vision has been throughly set.

Will it be successful? Remains to be seen. One thing I've learned about ZOS over these years is that they are not afraid of shaking things up and testing the waters to see what floats. See faction locks and all the different experiments they are trying with that to determine what works best.

The problem is, they aren't the ones dealing with this ***, we are. They aren't the ones keeping the money coming in, we are. You don't bite the hand that feeds you. When a huge portion of your player base is against a change, when your very own history has proven your judgement wrong time and time again, it's time to listen.

All it takes is them to majorly break something central to gameplay, like, say, thinking it's a good idea to add cast times to every skill in the game, killing combat fluidity -- which, if the new Stonefist is any indication, might be the direction they're heading -- and the game can potentially implode on them. And, given their track history, by the time they fix their mistake, the damage will already be done.

This is also reinforced by the fact that they don't even know their own damn game. Hell, their own justification for cast times on ults is factually incorrect -- outside of bugs within specific contexts or delayed skills, it's literally impossible to be hit with 3-4 abilities at once, because of the 1 second GCD.

Not only are they way more likely to push out a garbage change, since they lack a sufficient enough understanding to gauge the impact a change will have and hence its reception, but they're also way more unlikely to reverse said garbage change, because they're under the belief that they're not wrong, the players are wrong! <insert Simpsons "Am I out of touch?" meme>

I'm not saying to cater to every player who cries, because that's just as bad. But when the opinion as is unanimous as this, when your very own class reps, the group you formed to give an educated perspective on issues like this, tells you you're wrong, you might just maybe be wrong. Maybe, just maybe, reverse whatever changes you rolled out, or are thinking of rolling out. Saves you the headache of having the community scream at you for 6+ months, because it'll take you that long to address your garbage change.

So as the owner of said business, you'd abandon your own vision without even attempting to see it thru? Because a percentage (I won't use numbers because only ZOS has all the data) of your customers disagrees with your vision? Especially customers who disrespect and insult your competence?

Or would you not mind losing those customers who will never appreciate your vision in favor of finding new customers that will?

I've seen quite a few posts happy about the change. Again, not a fan of cast times, but my opinion is no more or less worthy as those for them. At least that's how I see it.

Casterial · January 2020

Sevn wrote: »

So as the owner of said business, you'd abandon your own vision without even attempting to see it thru? Because a percentage (I won't use numbers because only ZOS has all the data) of your customers disagrees with your vision? Especially customers who disrespect and insult your competence?

Or would you not mind losing those customers who will never appreciate your vision in favor of finding new customers that will?

I've seen quite a few posts happy about the change. Again, not a fan of cast times, but my opinion is no more or less worthy as those for them. At least that's how I see it.

As a game designer its okay to take criticism, actually its apart of the job. Heres the issue, ZOS refuses to ever revert. When I was a combat designer I reverted based on feedback from vast majority of the players, ZOS does not. ZOS wont listen.

Sevn · January 2020

Casterial wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

So as the owner of said business, you'd abandon your own vision without even attempting to see it thru? Because a percentage (I won't use numbers because only ZOS has all the data) of your customers disagrees with your vision? Especially customers who disrespect and insult your competence?

Or would you not mind losing those customers who will never appreciate your vision in favor of finding new customers that will?

I've seen quite a few posts happy about the change. Again, not a fan of cast times, but my opinion is no more or less worthy as those for them. At least that's how I see it.

As a game designer its okay to take criticism, actually its apart of the job. Heres the issue, ZOS refuses to ever revert. When I was a combat designer I reverted based on feedback from vast majority of the players, ZOS does not. ZOS wont listen.

So you lacked confidence in your own vision? Understandable I guess. Only time will tell what these changes bring about for gameplay.

Lots of us don't have access to the pts so we'll have to judge for ourselves when available.

Anotherone773 · January 2020

Rianai wrote: »

Cast time on ults doesn't make pve more challenging.

It does when you have to consider things like being interrupted, losing LoS or range, or needing to counter something else. When everything is instant, you dont have to think about timing, Just 1,la,2,la,3,ha,4,la,5,la,ws,1,la,2,la,3,ha,4,la,5,la,ws, repeat until target dies. Kind of like marching... Left, left, left, right, left! Gee that is challenging!

" Can you push buttons in a certain order?"

"I dont know... can you put these geometrically shaped wood blocks in the correct geometrically shaped holes?"

Casterial wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

So as the owner of said business, you'd abandon your own vision without even attempting to see it thru? Because a percentage (I won't use numbers because only ZOS has all the data) of your customers disagrees with your vision? Especially customers who disrespect and insult your competence?

Or would you not mind losing those customers who will never appreciate your vision in favor of finding new customers that will?

I've seen quite a few posts happy about the change. Again, not a fan of cast times, but my opinion is no more or less worthy as those for them. At least that's how I see it.

As a game designer its okay to take criticism, actually its apart of the job. Heres the issue, ZOS refuses to ever revert. When I was a combat designer I reverted based on feedback from vast majority of the players, ZOS does not. ZOS wont listen.

You realize these forums are just a tiny fraction of user feedback for this game, right? And that Gina collects data from multiple sources for feedback? AND that the general opinions of the people on this forum rarely are in sync to the rest of the games population, right?

Rianai · January 2020

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

Cast time on ults doesn't make pve more challenging.

It does when you have to consider things like being interrupted, losing LoS or range, or needing to counter something else. When everything is instant, you dont have to think about timing, Just 1,la,2,la,3,ha,4,la,5,la,ws,1,la,2,la,3,ha,4,la,5,la,ws, repeat until target dies. Kind of like marching... Left, left, left, right, left! Gee that is challenging!

99% of content in this game don't require you to consider such things nor do you have to use those ults, and even if you do, we are still talking about predictable npc behaviour.

(And yes, that number is completely made up. Quick point it out, so you can ignore the actual argument)

Anotherone773 wrote: »

You realize these forums are just a tiny fraction of user feedback for this game, right? And that Gina collects data from multiple sources for feedback? AND that the general opinions of the people on this forum rarely are in sync to the rest of the games population, right?

You realize those insisting on the irrelevance of the forums because they "are just a tiny fraction" have even less to back up their own claims?

Anotherone773 · January 2020

Rianai wrote: »

99% of content in this game don't require you to consider such things nor do you have to use those ults, and even if you do, we are still talking about predictable npc behaviour.
(And yes, that number is completely made up. Quick point it out, so you can ignore the actual argument)

It doesnt right as of this moment. I dont know... did you...did you get the...memo? They are revamping the entire combat system. Did you know fighting NPCs.... that.is.combat. You are also assuming that its not going to affect it much... actually you are ignoring the fact that it affects it simply because you feel it is easily countered by timing/changing your rotation slightly so that your abilities/ult fall in a specific window... oh there it is.. strategy. Cant just spam my rotation and move around a bit until the boss dies.

( I also use X% as an example for effect. i would never call someone on it. Just like i wont call you on don't [it is suppose to be doesn't] because my grammar is not stellar and i tend to be lazy with it in what affectionately call "Simplified English")

Rianai wrote: »

You realize those insisting on the irrelevance of the forums because they "are just a tiny fraction" have even less to back up their own claims?

I wont hesitate to point out the flaws in your rebuttal argument. While it may seem clever to attack my "minority" argument with a "minority of a minority" argument, it is a fallacy.

1) My target audience is whoever can be bothered to read the post. At best you can argue its all reasonably active forum users. ZOS target audience is their entire customer base of which only a tiny fraction will ever speak on these forums. So this is an apple and oranges comparison.

2) I didnt say the forums are irrelevant. I said they make up a small fraction of where data is gathered which is why it seems like the devs never listen to forum users. The people who come to the forums often have a very different view of the game and where it should go than the general public.

3) I realize that i am minority of minority. Ive known that for far longer than i have played ESO. That isnt relevant to me. I care more about debate and ideas, than trying to "change the world". If you read some of my posts, that might seem untrue as i do tend to have detailed suggestions for changes for the game. But i consider it an exercise of the mind, rather than something the devs will seriously consider.

4) It is ZOS best interest to follow the wants of a majority of the player base. They have a business to run. So those 3000 reviews posted in the last month by unique users are probably going to weigh a little heavier than the few thousand posts posted by the same few hundred users over and over in these forums of which most of are nonconstructive nonsense to put it politely. When people give reviews they tend to give constructive reviews. Forums tend to lean more towards toxic waste.

Gilvoth · January 2020

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

Cast time on ults doesn't make pve more challenging.

It does when you have to consider things like being interrupted, losing LoS or range, or needing to counter something else. When everything is instant, you dont have to think about timing, Just 1,la,2,la,3,ha,4,la,5,la,ws,1,la,2,la,3,ha,4,la,5,la,ws, repeat until target dies. Kind of like marching... Left, left, left, right, left! Gee that is challenging!

" Can you push buttons in a certain order?"

"I dont know... can you put these geometrically shaped wood blocks in the correct geometrically shaped holes?"

Casterial wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

So as the owner of said business, you'd abandon your own vision without even attempting to see it thru? Because a percentage (I won't use numbers because only ZOS has all the data) of your customers disagrees with your vision? Especially customers who disrespect and insult your competence?

Or would you not mind losing those customers who will never appreciate your vision in favor of finding new customers that will?

I've seen quite a few posts happy about the change. Again, not a fan of cast times, but my opinion is no more or less worthy as those for them. At least that's how I see it.

As a game designer its okay to take criticism, actually its apart of the job. Heres the issue, ZOS refuses to ever revert. When I was a combat designer I reverted based on feedback from vast majority of the players, ZOS does not. ZOS wont listen.

You realize these forums are just a tiny fraction of user feedback for this game, right? And that Gina collects data from multiple sources for feedback? AND that the general opinions of the people on this forum rarely are in sync to the rest of the games population, right?

all truth,
well said.

Shaggygaming · January 2020

I would like to see them take a good look at the combat system and see how they can improve the combat system to help match end game trials.

FrankonPC · January 2020

Sevn wrote: »

So you lacked confidence in your own vision? Understandable I guess. Only time will tell what these changes bring about for gameplay.

Lots of us don't have access to the pts so we'll have to judge for ourselves when available.

The most popular game today(fortnite) listens to their community and is insanely popular partially for that reason. You can have a vision, implement it, and after thorough testing outside of your planning can realize that it wasn't a good change and adjust accordingly.

AMeanOne · January 2020

Shaggygaming wrote: »

WOW has the best end game raiding still to this day and there’s no animation cancelling. ZOS needs to redesign their whole combat system so they can better design end game trials. The majority of people complaining are those who strive for end game PvP and PvE and both end games are trash.

In my 3 years playing I find the "majority of people complaining" are ones who struggle with mudcrabs

Sevn · January 2020

FrankonPC wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

So you lacked confidence in your own vision? Understandable I guess. Only time will tell what these changes bring about for gameplay.

Lots of us don't have access to the pts so we'll have to judge for ourselves when available.

The most popular game today(fortnite) listens to their community and is insanely popular partially for that reason. You can have a vision, implement it, and after thorough testing outside of your planning can realize that it wasn't a good change and adjust accordingly.

Totally agree, keyword implement it and thoroughly test it.

Edit- Fortnite is insanely popular for a variety of reasons, mainly being extremely accessible.