Anyone else feeling upset for our devs and the strain they must be under? (Positive post)

Eraldus · November 2019

Just looking at the snarky posts the devs gets in this board, it's no surprise that they ignore 90% of the topics made, nor do they take certain posts seriously...

I'd do the same, if I were a game developer and no matter what I did with my game, a bunch of manchildren would throw a fit and start drama every corner.

I hope ZOS continues doing their job and doesn't caves in to a bunch of toxic whiners that likes to cause drama, but are still playing the game nonetheless.

srfrogg23 · November 2019

No. I don't feel bad for them at all. They are selling entertainment for a living. Emphasis on "SELLING" and "ENTERTAINMENT".

If Zos was a charity and this was a donation only thing, I would be more sympathetic. Considering that it's not a charity, it's for profit, and they're willing to sink as low as gamble-boxes, I say "criticize all you want".

Pauls · November 2019

This will be positive when PC EU will be finally fixed.

Turelus · November 2019

Raiden_Gekkou wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Raiden_Gekkou wrote: »

The devs just throw crap at the wall and see what sticks, then sometimes adjusts things based on our feedback. They hardly even play their own game.

Whilst not all of them play, nor play every day like many of us, there are a decent number of ZOS staff who play the game in various areas of play. This can normally be seen via their social media accounts or through chatting with them at events.

If roleplaying in Riften counts as doing content, I guess the devs have that down. We tell them all sorts of glitches and problems that have been going on for years and they're still blind to them because they don't do content that requires more than a few light attacks to see these problems. Either that or the more accurate option: They just don't care about our opinions unless we make as much of a fuss as possible, the revert on the 1-second shield cast time being a good example. Just look at the recent balancing. They tell us it's time for a haircut and we tell them that we're okay with a little off the top, and they respond by shaving us bald and cutting off one of our ears while telling us that it's for our own good. After all i've seen recently, I don't trust the devs anymore. I used to think their balancing was pretty hamfisted but somewhat reasonable, but now it's clear that they aren't sure what they're doing sometimes.

From what I've seen and spoke with them they play; Questing/Story, Dungeons, Trials, Cyrodiil, Battle Grounds, Housing.
That's all the content in the game. Rich Lambert for example occasionally tweets about his random group finder groups in vet dungeons. They've also spoke about a lunch group who do trials and dungeons together in the studio.

The "Dev's don't play" is just some BS line every game community throws out when most often it's not the case. They don't play as much as us, and maybe not all of them play. However it's a flat out lie to say ZOS doesn't have staff who actively play the game.

Just because they're bad at game balance, or fixing issues we want doesn't mean they don't play the game.

Darsaga · November 2019

I feel overwhelmed that I have spent thousands of dollars on this game hoping it would be put to good use and instead it has been spent on starting new projects/games. Meanwhile the game I invested in is falling apart and I have to listen to them brag about a stupid mobile game at their press conference.

GreenhaloX · November 2019

It's social media. That's probably enough to be said, and you can't please everybody. Sure, the game has been developed quite well, overall, and it is quite entertaining when it is working right (probably 70% of the time.) Surely, there is no doubt ZOS and Bethesda have some talents as developers and other functions to keep this game running. However, it doesn't help when the game has continuously crashed, glitched, lagged and bugged over and over again for years, with most of the same reoccurring issues. That, in addition to nerfing and more nerfing with every patches/updates to appease the PvPers.

The fact that they aren't able to or won't separate the "balance" efforts of PvP from PvE has been ever frustrating for the PvE world; particularly when you have trial bosses from 80-100+ mil hp. Powercreeping, my arse. No damn such thing as powercreeping or overbuffing for the PvE land.

PrimusNephilim · November 2019

We live in an entitlement society were everyone feels entitled to whatever whims cross their little feeble minds at that moment, to add fuel to the fire, people will post whatever they want, disrespect anyone they can with zero repercussions to themselves because of anonymity with on being on-line.

I get what you're saying but this isn't just an issue with ESO forums, you see it in any "soicial" media content which is sad.

I give kudos to the DEVS, if you read the patch notes, they are working on improving the system all the time. If anyone has ever worked with computer programs, they know this to be true. You have primary programs talking to support programs talking to third party programs...its all coded....yeah, its not as easy as clicking a button and pressing the enter key.

~ Cheers

FierceSam · November 2019

Raudgrani wrote: »

Fire the whole combat team, and probably quite a few others - and hire people playing the game, like some from the "class representative" groups. They should simply start a "recruitment campaign" for a bunch of new employees, and replace the old ones with people who actually play the game, and know what they are doing. If all the supposed millions of active players really exist, I am pretty sure some 5-6 of these are ready for a new career, and are willing to even relocate and start working for ZOS.

As an example, I've been playing since 2016, and never - EVER - have I seen one single "game master" around. They are like mythical creatures, no one knows if they even exist. Though legends of old, tells us that they could be summoned in ancient times through customer service, to slay for example farming bots etc. But this is so long ago, that no one even knows if this is just legends or historical facts.

It's a bit like Calvinism, God created earth but he eventually left. He's not around anymore. Only difference is, we can't change or affect anything ourselves, and "God" ain't listening because he isn't there, or doesn't care.

Whatever strain devs are under, they have themselves to blame. We are many who are willing to try and help them out, but they don't seem to care.

Disagree with this almost entirely.

Just because you can play a game doesn’t mean you can make a game. The idea that you should fire developers and replace them with players is mind-boggling anti-logic. It’s the idiot world that says, I’ve watched a lot of sport, so fire all those sportsmen and let me have a go.

Sure there’s a load of stuff about the game that’s broken and should be fixed, but there’s a load more that’s great.

When I want my plumbing fixed, I’m going to call a plumber, not someone who’s spent a long time having a dump.

Tsar_Gekkou · November 2019

GreenhaloX wrote: »

The fact that they aren't able to or won't separate the "balance" efforts of PvP from PvE has been ever frustrating for the PvE world; particularly when you have trial bosses from 80-100+ mil hp. Powercreeping, my arse. No damn such thing as powercreeping or overbuffing for the PvE land.

Exactly. They say they want us to do less damage and struggle to sustain, but keep releasing content that requires higher dps and better sustain than the previous stuff. My guess is that they feel like if people get good enough to beat vet content regularly, they'll get bored of the game and stop logging in to buy crown crates, so they want newer trials to be the proverbial carrot on a stick to keep us logging in and struggling because we can't buy crown crtates if we aren't logged in.... for now.

InaMoonlight · November 2019

I respect them, there isnt enough money in the world that would make me want to listen to the nonstop screeches of those that feel SO utterly entitled they get personally vicious against them, even for a game i love, the forums and bonding over woe-me people is bad enough. People send them a handful of death threats *every* day.

Game dev takes a (large) masochistic streak </3 It's not like ANYTHING they do is gonna simply get appreciated, they loose in whatever they touch in that sense.

ANYONE ever saw an utterly appreciative review of ANY change in any game? New trend is apparently getting into a game, and then bashing it to bond with others.

Edit: Missed a "get" in there - I need to put new batteries in my typo-proof.

NeillMcAttack · November 2019

Bar performance issues (which they likely have little or no power over) I think the game is in an excellent state. I’ve played since beta, mostly on PS4, but now on PC and I honestly believe that the combat team finally have a direction with Gilliam on board and are doing a great job. Yea I firmly believe that.
Sure people believe that things are going south, but it’s honestly only a valid complaint when discussing performance. Stuff was unbalanced as huck, the truth hurts I guess. Well done to the devs I say for having the balls to make those tough decisions that they must have known would garner some flack from the community.

Tsar_Gekkou · November 2019

Turelus wrote: »

Raiden_Gekkou wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Raiden_Gekkou wrote: »

The devs just throw crap at the wall and see what sticks, then sometimes adjusts things based on our feedback. They hardly even play their own game.

Whilst not all of them play, nor play every day like many of us, there are a decent number of ZOS staff who play the game in various areas of play. This can normally be seen via their social media accounts or through chatting with them at events.

If roleplaying in Riften counts as doing content, I guess the devs have that down. We tell them all sorts of glitches and problems that have been going on for years and they're still blind to them because they don't do content that requires more than a few light attacks to see these problems. Either that or the more accurate option: They just don't care about our opinions unless we make as much of a fuss as possible, the revert on the 1-second shield cast time being a good example. Just look at the recent balancing. They tell us it's time for a haircut and we tell them that we're okay with a little off the top, and they respond by shaving us bald and cutting off one of our ears while telling us that it's for our own good. After all i've seen recently, I don't trust the devs anymore. I used to think their balancing was pretty hamfisted but somewhat reasonable, but now it's clear that they aren't sure what they're doing sometimes.

From what I've seen and spoke with them they play; Questing/Story, Dungeons, Trials, Cyrodiil, Battle Grounds, Housing.
That's all the content in the game. Rich Lambert for example occasionally tweets about his random group finder groups in vet dungeons. They've also spoke about a lunch group who do trials and dungeons together in the studio.

The "Dev's don't play" is just some BS line every game community throws out when most often it's not the case. They don't play as much as us, and maybe not all of them play. However it's a flat out lie to say ZOS doesn't have staff who actively play the game.

Just because they're bad at game balance, or fixing issues we want doesn't mean they don't play the game.

It's not like it takes 7 hours of gameplay everyday at the highest level to encounter issues that god knows how many players have repeatedly reported for years. Even if some of them only logged in daily to run 2 dungeons before logging off for the day, they'd see these problems that their paying customers have been dealing with. It's not like they have to be at the Tick-Tock-Tormentor level or doing vet dlc dungeon challengers. Many issues can be replicated in base-game dungeons, but have been ignored for as long as possible. So when people say the devs don't play, the fact that a lof of their "effort" makes it look like they mostly just turn the game on to make sure the crown store still functions definitely makes it feel that way. When a lot of the work and investigation being done seemingly amounts ot logging in and running around in a circle while many often-reported issues that hinder players and can be easily replicated often aren't addressed for ages and only get attention when Zos rolls some dice and it comes up in the customers favor, what do you expect people to think?

AlienSlof · November 2019

Turelus wrote: »

I dislike some of the more direct abuse they get, especially when some of the issues are not directly their fault or something they have the power to fix. e.g. I don't think Rich or Gina are exactly in a position to fix the EU server issues, yet they will be on the front line for abuse about it (being bigger known faces or those who's job it is to work directly with the community)

However I do think ZOS as a company should be held to account for its failings and a fire kept under their feet to remind them they need to improve.

This. ^

I try not to 'shoot the messenger' with the reps, as they are only telling us what they are told by their bosses to tell us. For the most part, they won't be permitted to voice their own opinions, they are there to field ours and try to pacify us. They can only pass on information they themselves are given to pass on.

Similarly, I can't entirely blame the devs, those peeps who actually MAKE the game and do the bulk of the work. They are TOLD what to make, so they make it. They are likely often held to ridiculous deadlines like many in the manufacturing side of a business. When I started my signwriting career, I worked in a company that told me what to paint, where and when, and how soon it was expected to be ready. We were managed by a team of salespeaple and managers who knew little of what went into creating a sign from start to finish, and so gave us often unrealistic deadlines.

Can't say quite the same for the combat team. I had hoped taking on Gilliam would have given them a voice of reason, but he's either told 'just do it' or they simply don't listen to him and do whatever they want anyway. I had high hopes of the combat stuff being better with him in there, but that has not exactly been the result. Again, the blame I lay firmly at the feet of the bosses.

Those I have little respect for are the marketing team and the bosses at the top doing the dictating. They treat us gamers with cynicism and a lack of respect, and I find that the best reason of all not to praise this company. They treat us as open wallets, and yes, some of the people who post here certainly seem to be that, throwing more money at crates than I've ever held in my hand at any one time. Those 'whales' are telling ZO$: 'yes, it's absolutely fine to keep doing what you're doing, keep it up!' Those of us who close our wallets are probably barely noticed in the face of a player tossing £$1000's at the Crown Store.

I say all this on the back of running a successful pub sign business myself up until my retirement. If I had treated my customers like ZO$ treat us, I would have gone out of business faster than I can even say it! I had a well-earned rep for quality at competitive prices - had I produced a service like the EU have had recently, I would have been sunk very quickly, and looked down upon. Therefore, I can't look up to, or praise ZO$ on the recent performance and laziness and pure greed.

Even now, when I make FREE mods, I am very particular about the quality being 'just right' and everything is extensively tested in my own games BEFORE release to general public. I don't charge a single coin for any of them. Some of the things I've seen recently in the CS are untested, quick 2-minute reskins in Photoshop - clipping, bad dye channels, sloppy reskin work. I would be ashamed to put those out into the public domain in that state. ASHAMED. And then to ask rather a lot of players' hard-earned money for them. Doubly ashamed.

I have loved this game for a long time, and still enjoy it whn I do play. I've made (and lost

) some fantastic friends, some who came with me from the Elder Scrolls modding community, some I made through play. I now play with a closed wallet and have had to adapt my style to cope with the limited storage.

If ZO$ actually start properly fixing things and treating us with respect, then I will in turn respect them back and open my wallet once more.

Aelorin · November 2019

Hello OP,

If you get so down from reading the forums, then I suggest to stop reading them.
Instead you could be playing this great game that ESO is.

A lot of people keep saying that the game is the worst state ever, that it is dying.

But when I login I see the exact opposite: I do not think that i have seen so much activity on the (EU) server then in the past few weeks. It is allways quite busy in the different zones I visit.

The game is doing fine. I love exploring, questing, the detailed world, the atmosphere, the music, the characters, the dungeons, and even the PvP I do once in a while.

I think that the 'happy' people are overall just playing the game, and the 'not so happy people' come to complain on the forums.

BTW: Thank you for your positive post. And shame on the ones that make this another complain thread.

fbours · November 2019

Yes and no, mostly no. Being a Dev these days for an online game with a community of hundred of thousands customers you are bound to receive negative feedback, moreso than positive, human behavior.

I build trains for a living, I have very few customers, yet all I receive is negative feedback about our processes, quality etc etc. But we are selling those like pancakes right now. Just as an example. I think it is similar here.

iaminc · November 2019

Nope.Not one bit.

They choose to ignore the feedback from people that put in the time to test on the PTS , they choose to ignore the people paying to play this game.

Now not all the devs deserve flak , but the combat lead @ZOS_BrianWheeler seems to be intent on single handedly destroying anything fun and diverse with the combat and classes in ESO so I’m not surprised when I see his name being badly spoken off and imo that particular area does deserve all the heat.

anadandy · November 2019

You know who I feel bad for? The person/persons who created Hammerdeath Arena. That is such an awesome asset and it has been abandoned.

redlink1979 · November 2019

Game has issues but also has great stuff in it, we all agree on that.

Kagukan · November 2019

I am paying for this game because I still enjoy it. If I felt the same as OP then not only would I stop paying, I would stop playing.

RefLiberty · November 2019

In a last month (besides few *** insulting Gina personally which is an ultra nasty and low move ) in 99% criticism has been express towards the ZOS as a company in general.
And I think it is a good thing, people need to tell when they are unhappy and the reasons why.
Forum and the Social media are practically only channel where people can get their message seen, and indeed, the form of the forum communication is not very formal and a lot of people are frustrated and venting, but staff that is unfortunate enough who work directly in community or customer care or needs to be mentally ready for that.
Criticism is needed and there is nothing wrong in that.
And for that low life minority with zero respect towards other people, that will go extra mile and bring everything on a personal level like insulting Gina or any other staff member directly, well there is a ban stick and there is nothing wrong with using it.

SidraWillowsky · November 2019

The only people I feel bad for are employees with Gina's role or similar. She's the subject of a lot of misplaced ire from the ESO community.

I was a lifeguard during the summers in high school. Kids had to take a swim test prior to being allowed in certain parts of the pool, and I frequently took on the role of verbal punching bag for parents whose kids couldn't pass the test. They for whatever reason seemed to think that *I* made the rules and that I was purposefully doing something to spite their child. On my end I was just enforcing the rules, and even if I for whatever reason disagreed (as a lifeguard I was in a different position because you can't really disagree with trying to help kids not drown, but I cannot imagine that Gina agrees with everything ZOS does), I wasn't going to trash my employer's policies and procedures while I was at my plan of employment, at least not if I wanted to keep my job.

Anyway. Gina and other community managers? I can sympathize. Devs? Not so much... they're providing customers with flawed/broken product.

usmguy1234 · November 2019

I tend to lean more on "You sleep in the bed you make." Zos has been cutting corners for a while now. Should we he surprised when it shows up in the end product?

svartorn · November 2019

Nope.

I’m a software designer and I know for a fact I’d be in trouble, if not out of a job, if the stuff we made was this bad. Granted, our software is critical for manufacturing and energy, so a failure in our software likely results in deaths...

Donny_Vito · November 2019

People use the term "Devs" and don't realize you are lumping so many people together. It's like if you were to use the term managers to refer to a specific department, but yet you are lumping in managers from accounting, marketing, etc... And basically none of us are privy to their operations, so we don't know if the system administrators (one aspect of "devs") are just incompetent or if they are hamstrung because of subpar servers. We also don't know if the combat team and it's programmers (another aspect of "devs") are poor at their job which is highly suggested here or if this is a symptom of the game engine they have to work within. In my opinion, a majority of these comments are just ignorant because we are so limited in the knowledge of their operations yet we make comments like we do know.

Don't hate the player, hate the game (i.e. ZoS as an entity).

ZOS_JesC · November 2019

Greetings, we've removed a handful of bashing comments. Please remember, while its fine to disagree with one another, bashing comments directed at ZOS employees or other forum members are not permitted. We ask that your comments remain constructive and civil. Thank you.

Raudgrani · November 2019

FierceSam wrote: »

Raudgrani wrote: »

Fire the whole combat team, and probably quite a few others - and hire people playing the game, like some from the "class representative" groups. They should simply start a "recruitment campaign" for a bunch of new employees, and replace the old ones with people who actually play the game, and know what they are doing. If all the supposed millions of active players really exist, I am pretty sure some 5-6 of these are ready for a new career, and are willing to even relocate and start working for ZOS.

As an example, I've been playing since 2016, and never - EVER - have I seen one single "game master" around. They are like mythical creatures, no one knows if they even exist. Though legends of old, tells us that they could be summoned in ancient times through customer service, to slay for example farming bots etc. But this is so long ago, that no one even knows if this is just legends or historical facts.

It's a bit like Calvinism, God created earth but he eventually left. He's not around anymore. Only difference is, we can't change or affect anything ourselves, and "God" ain't listening because he isn't there, or doesn't care.

Whatever strain devs are under, they have themselves to blame. We are many who are willing to try and help them out, but they don't seem to care.

Disagree with this almost entirely.

Just because you can play a game doesn’t mean you can make a game. The idea that you should fire developers and replace them with players is mind-boggling anti-logic. It’s the idiot world that says, I’ve watched a lot of sport, so fire all those sportsmen and let me have a go.

Sure there’s a load of stuff about the game that’s broken and should be fixed, but there’s a load more that’s great.

When I want my plumbing fixed, I’m going to call a plumber, not someone who’s spent a long time having a dump.

Mind-boggling anti-logic is what rules the game as we speak. It's clear for everyone to see, that this isn't working at all. Not in the slightest sense. All the "major players", which currently carry this game with their blogs and Youtube-channels, are pretty united in the criticism of what's been happening the last few patches. Frankly, it couldn't be much more amateurish and outlandish. That you decide how various abilities and sets work in combat, really doesn't mean you need to know programming or anything remotely close to that.

These guys are not plumbers fixing plumbing, they are like self-proclaimed male gynecologists trying to do the plumbing. They have no idea whatsoever what they are doing, insanely buffing and then nerfing same skills over a couple of patches proves this, without any doubt. Had they even just TRIED it themselves for a few hours, they would realize this. But they don't. There are many players FAR more suitable to do their work, believe me. I could mention just a few that I know personally.

Davadin · November 2019

MyPrist wrote: »

My skill do not work for 5+ month
(Moltan armaments)

sorry for bothering your sleep, but it's now a staple on my bar as a stamDK. works perfectly fine.

what was/is wrong with it?

randomkeyhits · November 2019

The actual developers, the content creators? Not got a problem with them at all.

The management, the decision makers, the money men? ohhhhh hell yes do I have problems with them

Not much actual evidence for this feeling but I really believe that at least 90%, probably more of the issues are down to the management team not wanting to spend the money to make things right until they are faced with being on the ragged edge of disaster.

I want to be fair on this but I honestly believe that so much of our pain is avoidable and thats just wrong.

nolangrady · November 2019

No they have had feedback for years that this level of service is unacceptable. Full blame on Matt as I am sure all of this funnels down from him. They deserve all the backlash and more. One day more veterans will realize this game is just a new player generator. Free weekends and full casual experience. At no point in the last year has this team said or done anything to instill confidence and that should tell you all you need to know.

Tigerseye · November 2019

I like the Southern Elsweyr area very much.

I just don't like the performance and crashing on the EU server.