The maintenance is complete and the PTS is now back online. The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test!
The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
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Please nerf Snipe, Cloak, Bosmer and Khajiit.
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J2JMC✭✭✭✭✭brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »Funny people say "balance" but balance one will favor the person complaining..
No, that is not the definition of balance. Maybe you should look it up before you throw around with random assumptions.
The argument why Cloak is unbalanced is clear and was already mentioned: 1. other escape abilities like streak and dodge roll get a fatigue penalty to prevent them from being spammed indefinitely, while Cloak is special snowflake and does not get the same treatment. 2. While in Cloak people can't target you, but you can be healed, which isn't balanced either.brandoncoffmannub18_ESO wrote: »Also if you don't play a playstyle then complain you don't have the perspective so your opinion is incredibly invalid and skewed to your own desires.
1. No, it's not. Fighting against a certain class/ playstyle, without playing it myself gives me as much of a reason to debate than anyone else.
2. I can throw your own comment back at you and tell you your opinion is false and invalid because you play that class/ playstyle and therefore you are biased to defend it by any means.
Dodge roll fatigue nerf is purely because of the existence of CP. Same as the no stam recovery while blocking nerf. On top of that, dodge roll is a skill every class can use. While the mechanic that gates their cost is similar, dodge roll shouldn't even be compared to streak since streak is a unique class ability that require a skill slot.
Streak lets you move 15m away from a target instantly, stun the target, and repeatedly spam the skill. To get similar effects on a nightblade through class skills, you'd have to use shades (movement), fear (stun), and cloak (spammable). Obviously the stun is not the reason the fatigue cost exists. So we'll ignore fear. We're still looking at two skills needed to match what streak does. You can only teleport to a predetermined location with shades, and the teleport cannot be spammed to move around the map. You can spam cloak, but it doesn't move you around the map.
The ability to cover large distances instantly is why streak received the fatigue nerf. No matter how you want to word it, cloak does not do that. If you want to argue that a skill shouldn't instantly make you invisible and suppress dots while healing is allowed, go for it. But you can't compare it to streak or dodge roll because the reasons those received fatigue costs don't apply to cloak. Again, cloak doesn't instantly move you 15m by itself. And cloak does not have a CP tree dedicated to reducing the cost.
@Vizikul
Knee Jerk, L2P, Obtuse, Casual, Entitled, All The Best, unnecessary mention of CoD
Battle leveling for pve content defeats the idea of progression. Remove CP
"Apparently the players are more informed than we are"-Richard Lambert3 -
The_Lex✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I would like to personally invite everyone saying “L2P” to a duel on the Public Test Server so they may indeed show me how. I would like to see for myself in what areas I need to improve.
Unless you will meet me for a duel on PTS you have no right to tell me to L2P, as it is possible I am in fact better then you.2 -
FearlessOne_2014✭✭✭✭✭
✭ThePhantomThorn wrote: »If u nerfed cloak it would be like removing purge from templar
It would be like nerfing Bolt Escape on Sorc... Oh wait! Hehe0 -
ZOS_RagnaradminWe have removed several comments from this thread that were not constructive and only served to disrupt the discussion.The Elder Scrolls Online - ZeniMax Online Studios
Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site1 -
Daedric_NB_187✭✭✭✭✭It's obvious none of you have ever pvped in SWG or SWTOR. NBs are a Sesame Street level stealth class compared to Ops/Assasins in Tor and Spies in SWG.3
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grannas211✭✭✭✭✭
✭Daedric_NB_187 wrote: »It's obvious none of you have ever pvped in SWG or SWTOR. NBs are a Sesame Street level stealth class compared to Ops/Assasins in Tor and Spies in SWG.
Who cares about trash games?0 -
technohic✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭grannas211 wrote: »Daedric_NB_187 wrote: »It's obvious none of you have ever pvped in SWG or SWTOR. NBs are a Sesame Street level stealth class compared to Ops/Assasins in Tor and Spies in SWG.
Who cares about trash games?
SWG was beautiful at a time; but thats not the time hes talking about. Hes talking spies in the NGE but they had a cooldown and so did dark jedi. Operatives had a 1 or 2 minute cooldown on their in-combat stealth same as shadows/assassins.
I dont really have a point, but then I don't know what the point is to begin with talking different games with different mechanics.2 -
Zelos✭✭✭✭✭Maybe you can learn how to f**king play the game to counter them...Aeonhack - AD Stamina Nightblade - 5 Star General
CP1200
Creator and user of "Questionable" addons and game mechanics.5 -
Mayrael✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »Cloak needs the bolt escape fatigue treatment
Then cloak needs to be 100% unbreakable by any damage, just skills designed to counter it. You can't expect to have fatigue on a skill that may not even work or be broken by butterfly fart.
After recent notes and probability of shade range being nerfed I switched to my old magplar. What can I say. Who needs cloak when you are immortal. The difference between these two specs is like night and day.Say no to Toxic Casuals!
I am doing my best, but I am not a native speaker, sorry.
"Difficulty scaling is desperately needed. 9 years. 6 paid expansions. 24 DLCs. 40 game changing updates including A Realm Reborn-tier overhaul of the game including a permanent CP160 gear cap and ridiculous power creep thereafter. I'm sick and tired of hearing about Cadwell Silver&Gold as a "you think you do but you don't"-tier deflection to any criticism regarding the lack of overland difficulty in the game." - @AlexanderDeLarge3 -
CE_Nex✭✭✭
As for cloak, it’s a cowards ability especially paired with snipe. Spamming cloak and snipe from the back of a zerg takes 0 skill whatsoever yet it somehow does more damage then someone in your face spamming Dizzy.
If you're in a zerg you don't need any skill...
It's literally using overwhelming numbers to counter any sort of actual needed effort for PvP.
I would like Khajiit and Bosmer nerfed for RP reasons.
I'm sorry, what?6 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I don’t think you can debate having an issue with cloak is a L2P issue.
It’s been the generally accepted weakest pvp class for a while. Once you learn what to do they’re a liability in places like battlegrounds.
Every once in a while a streamer tries a NB and always goes back. I think there are zero NB streamers outside solo play where NBs do well. Even in dueling tournaments rules are imposed on classes to balance them out 1v1, how many NB abilities are barred? Zero.
Cloak is an issue that keeps coming up amongst newer players because it is a learning issue. There are zero long term group pvp player who play a stamblade, there are some magblades though.Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten2 -
Vanos444✭✭✭✭✭
Interesting idea! And something must be done to remove troll framers...As for cloak, it’s a cowards ability especially paired with snipe. Spamming cloak and snipe from the back of a zerg takes 0 skill whatsoever yet it somehow does more damage then someone in your face spamming Dizzy.
Well, it's an useful ability. Just imagine an enemy player riding his cow 🐫 mount and passes over a bridge. Then suddenly he uncounters a NB that used cloak > Dizzy > Ultimate > excute > Dead. If that enemy player was not dead with his 2 button skill ( some noobs call him " Good player" because he mastered one skill by spamming like a rabid skeever) then he would cloak and repeat his 2 button rotation again.
Tbh, cloak doesn't need a NERF. It's just that other classes are far more weird to counter NB cloaker...]I would like Khajiit and Bosmer nerfed for RP reasons.
Thanks for asking!
Khajiit can go to the dogs for all I care or be slaves to the elves but bosmers females are one of the good looking races in TESO.
So, NO to the NERF of bosmers...
Edited by Vanos444 on October 4, 2019 4:31AM2 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »Cloak actually does need a nerf, it's way overloaded.
If you feel cloak needs nerfed then the problem isn't with Cloak its with you. So many counters to that ability all of which are very effective and not hard to use. L2P instead of asking for dumb nerfs.
Only 2 viable counters to cloak are detect pots with 30 secs cooldown, and radiant light. Inner light and hunter both have very small radius. Flare was nerfed with substantial cost increase about 200% of original cost. Aoe skill with more expensive than they are now, so harder to keep up/spam to get nb out of stealth.
I don't mind cloak if they just remove the damn garnteed crit, you already get many bonuses from sneak/stealth attacks as nightblade.2 -
Iskiab✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭universal_wrath wrote: »josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »Cloak actually does need a nerf, it's way overloaded.
If you feel cloak needs nerfed then the problem isn't with Cloak its with you. So many counters to that ability all of which are very effective and not hard to use. L2P instead of asking for dumb nerfs.
Only 2 viable counters to cloak are detect pots with 30 secs cooldown, and radiant light. Inner light and hunter both have very small radius. Flare was nerfed with substantial cost increase about 200% of original cost. Aoe skill with more expensive than they are now, so harder to keep up/spam to get nb out of stealth.
I don't mind cloak if they just remove the damn garnteed crit, you already get many bonuses from sneak/stealth attacks as nightblade.
I use neither and they’re a non-issue. Just use an aoe.Looking for any guildies I used to play with:
Havoc Warhammer - Alair
LoC EQ2 - Mayi and Iskiab
Condemned and Tabula Rasa - Rift - Iskiab
Or anyone else I used to play games with in guilds I’ve forgotten2 -
ThePhantomThorn✭✭✭✭universal_wrath wrote: »josh.lackey_ESO wrote: »Cloak actually does need a nerf, it's way overloaded.
If you feel cloak needs nerfed then the problem isn't with Cloak its with you. So many counters to that ability all of which are very effective and not hard to use. L2P instead of asking for dumb nerfs.
Only 2 viable counters to cloak are detect pots with 30 secs cooldown, and radiant light. Inner light and hunter both have very small radius. Flare was nerfed with substantial cost increase about 200% of original cost. Aoe skill with more expensive than they are now, so harder to keep up/spam to get nb out of stealth.
I don't mind cloak if they just remove the damn garnteed crit, you already get many bonuses from sneak/stealth attacks as nightblade.
I use neither and they’re a non-issue. Just use an aoe.
Like Templar’s favourite spammable...2 -
relentless_turnip✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭I have to agree with the majority here, cloak is so easy to counter.
I dont even play NB and have no desire to.
As soon as they disappear block and aoe.
It's not a cowards skill it is literally a massive part of their identity and it isn't remotely op.
If we keep nerfing unique skills there will be nothing left.
I main a DK literally everything is faster than me... Killing, movement etc...
I don't want to be buffed, I don't want anyone nerfed. I accept that my class is unique and I can't kill you fast, I wear you down and I can't chase you if you run away 😂 but can hold my ground if you chose to stay.
In literally every other mmo it is accepted that classes are unique and some may have an advantage against others. In ESO you have amazing build diversity one of the strongest parts of the game. If you don't like what is killing you learn to counter it or adapt your build to be more resistant to it.
I.e if you don't like cloak slot mage light so firstly you can't be stunned from stealth and secondly you can reveal them the moment they cloak. Another route would be to increase your resistance to give yourself more time to react.
Asking for nerfs on every skill or class that kills you is not the way. It will just create something else that kills you and we all have to respec/adapt again to counter it.
6 -
Moonsorrow✭✭✭✭✭
✭FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »Requesting nerfs to khajits and bosmers while orcs and bretons exist is peak forum trolling tbh.
I highly agree with you. However bretons are only a top tier race because without them sustaining magicka specs becomes unbearable. Soon as sustain for magicka specs gets better. Bretons will go back to being a sup optimRoyalthought wrote: »ThePhantomThorn wrote: »All are fine, but cloak should not give immunity to most attacks when the NB is detected by pots, magelight, etc. Otherwise; most NBs are just a nuisance these days
Well...
It should.
It negates single target effects cuz... duh
It nullifies dots. It’s like a no temporary purge.
It’s a no class identity that’s not op. Every build can counter it in 1 way or another, unlike wings pre elsweyr, so it’s not op. No need for nerf.
It takes a lot of skill to cloak in and out of players without being caught out.
(Just has to make it clear)
The OP is just a salty zergling who got sniped by a ganker (probably me)
And detect pots allow u to see a player. What part of that means that they take dot dmg?
U can then hit them w single target skills to pull them out of cloak
Well you cant say detect pots, magelight and all that lets you see them is a counter if you still cant really hit them.
Out of curiosity, while debating the abundant options that we have available to counter cloak, what options do nightblades have to counter other classes?FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »I've already posted videos from my play on both my Magicka and Stamina Nightblades, why cloak is overloaded and needs to be rebalanced. Anyone who says cloak is fine. Is just silly and gives no cares to balance. Cloak does too much for how low it cost compared to other abilities that have had their cost increased. Streak and shields have been nerfed so badly. Yet a ability that gives way more defensive and offensive power has not.
I believe cloak should either get the streak treatment. Or ZOS should undo the nerfs to shields, streak, and dodge rolls. Because these abilities offers less than what cloak offers.
Cloak needs to be rebalanced, and that's it.
Nightblades have been nerfed more than any other class in game for multiple consecutive patches. They are literally a liability in high level matches.
If you are struggling against them, there's a good chance that the necessary changes have to do with your build. Not ZoS.
What class/build are you unable to counter cloak with?
Obviously you didn't read my post. Me personally, don't struggle against Nightblades outside those Super Nightblade Gods that don't take damage but can one shot whole teams in BGs. I clearly stated from my personally expereience playing on both my Magicka and Stamina Nightblades. Cloak is currently overtuned and overloaded compared to other defensive and offensive options that have been harshly nerfed. There is a difference. Don't believe me? I've posted videos of my performance on my two Nightblades on these forums. Was only met with more strawman comments.
The problem with people who ask for a nerf to Cloak is that they do not understand that pretty much whole nb class what comes to the PVP identity (Power Fantasy as the latest fashion word) has been for YEARS since launch supposed to be:
Hitting fast and hard (burst) from shadows, finishing tanky targets, taking down healers, hitting from sides/back of the enemy to bring in tactics. To scout, burn camps, take down reinforcements running between keeps at Cyrodiil. To end situations that would end up in a draw. Glass cannons, the harder you want to hit the more squishy you will be.
Downside is: lack of burst healing to self. One can go and build the HoT way and yes that is how the nb kit works, you have to then sacrifice slots from bars that already are tight to function (secure kills). You use HoTs to heal while Cloaked. If Cloak gets nerfed into uselessness.. pretty much whole nb class needs to be done again.
Do people who want Cloak nerfed (some want it removed completely) to make NB just like Templar 2 but with red color animations? or Maybe make it just like Warden 2.. because without Cloak it will just end up become one more brawler class with a burst heal.. same thing with different color animation. Balance on that class has worked for years without problems vs other classses with small ups and downs as with any class. Only total potatos have problems with nbs.
Many nbs i know, me included, pretty much end up just making troll tank builds (what can do with any class) with zero damage, or healers.. since in competitive hands we are far from the top. Killing some potatos at low MMR or ganking someone at Cyro to try claim NB as stronk.. laughable. There is a reason why there are not many magblades anymore roaming around. All good players know how to counter a cloaking NB. And currently okay, use Dark Cloak and try make a brawler.. wait, can make brawler way better with pretty much all classes. ZOS has lately made some skill changes towards NB becoming a brawler, so.. i bet at next Chapter Cloak is finally removed.
Sad times coming. It was really sad they took away DK Wings. All original class flavor & fun is being removed and everything made the same exactly with different color animations because of, well.. potatos who cannot see the different classes strenghts and weaknesses, the power fantasy, what makes them FUN and different to play with. Classes should not be equal in everything but viable with different styles. Or why even have more than ONE class?
And since NB is all that powerful godmode, that is why we have full NB teams on bgs and over half of Cyrodiil are NB.. oh wait, it is templars. And do not get angry dear templar mains, just using this example of a current situation on balance. FOTMs come and go heh.
The PVP balance is becoming a complete mess on this game because ZOS listens to people who are capable of only thinking about 1 skill at a time and not the whole big picture. Same people would turn the Rock, Paper & Scissors game into a Paper, Paper & Paper. Because Paper is exciting and all would be equal and one can even use it to dry your tears.
Edited by Moonsorrow on October 4, 2019 11:57AM1 -
TankinatorFR✭✭✭relentless_turnip wrote: »[...]
An awesome post. But sadly, what we see here is typical. Stealth have for long been a hated feature.
People see it as "easy kill", "dishonoring strategy", "unfair advantage", and say that it should be nerfed because of this.
In some way, it mean that the "assassin" is working as intended.
Edited by TankinatorFR on October 4, 2019 1:13PM0 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭relentless_turnip wrote: »I have to agree with the majority here, cloak is so easy to counter.
I dont even play NB and have no desire to.
As soon as they disappear block and aoe.
It's not a cowards skill it is literally a massive part of their identity and it isn't remotely op.
If we keep nerfing unique skills there will be nothing left.
I main a DK literally everything is faster than me... Killing, movement etc...
I don't want to be buffed, I don't want anyone nerfed. I accept that my class is unique and I can't kill you fast, I wear you down and I can't chase you if you run away 😂 but can hold my ground if you chose to stay.
In literally every other mmo it is accepted that classes are unique and some may have an advantage against others. In ESO you have amazing build diversity one of the strongest parts of the game. If you don't like what is killing you learn to counter it or adapt your build to be more resistant to it.
I.e if you don't like cloak slot mage light so firstly you can't be stunned from stealth and secondly you can reveal them the moment they cloak. Another route would be to increase your resistance to give yourself more time to react.
Asking for nerfs on every skill or class that kills you is not the way. It will just create something else that kills you and we all have to respec/adapt again to counter it.
Leap, fussilize, chains with major expedition, RAT, quick cloak, snare from DK passive? How are you not catching anyone?0 -
Bobby_V_Rockit✭✭✭✭✭
✭I mostly get irritated by cloak by witnessing it being recast over and over by the same player in battlegrounds. It SHOULD have a fatigue, hell, if every other class needs to run a skill or potion specifically to counter ONE skill that only ONE class has, doesnt it seem overtuned?4 -
BlueRaven✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »I mostly get irritated by cloak by witnessing it being recast over and over by the same player in battlegrounds. It SHOULD have a fatigue, hell, if every other class needs to run a skill or potion specifically to counter ONE skill that only ONE class has, doesnt it seem overtuned?
I keep forgetting that aoe’s only damage nbs in cloak. And are otherwise useless. /sarcasm
Currently on my nb (I only play pve) cloak is the only useful class spell I have while soloing. If I am in a trial or dungeon I have a grand total of zero class abilities.
So sure take away the only useful spell, I love playing a generic classless dps with nothing special or unique about it. /also sarcasm1 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »I mostly get irritated by cloak by witnessing it being recast over and over by the same player in battlegrounds. It SHOULD have a fatigue, hell, if every other class needs to run a skill or potion specifically to counter ONE skill that only ONE class has, doesnt it seem overtuned?
Apperantly not says people who don't think the skill is strong.0 -
universal_wrath✭✭✭✭✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »I mostly get irritated by cloak by witnessing it being recast over and over by the same player in battlegrounds. It SHOULD have a fatigue, hell, if every other class needs to run a skill or potion specifically to counter ONE skill that only ONE class has, doesnt it seem overtuned?
I keep forgetting that aoe’s only damage nbs in cloak. And are otherwise useless. /sarcasm
Currently on my nb (I only play pve) cloak is the only useful class spell I have while soloing. If I am in a trial or dungeon I have a grand total of zero class abilities.
So sure take away the only useful spell, I love playing a generic classless dps with nothing special or unique about it. /also sarcasm
Sounds to me that you are playung stam sorc with invibilty pots. I wont tell you how to play you toon, but for me, I use atleast 5 skills when I play nightblade in pve.0 -
Vlad9425✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »I mostly get irritated by cloak by witnessing it being recast over and over by the same player in battlegrounds. It SHOULD have a fatigue, hell, if every other class needs to run a skill or potion specifically to counter ONE skill that only ONE class has, doesnt it seem overtuned?
How is a 3 second invisibility that has so many counters “overtuned”. Also I hate to tell you that decent nightblades do not spam Cloak because that’s how you run out of Magicka and die. Wish people would actually play NB and realise how you need to have good timing and reactions to succeed with the class instead of asking for ridiculous nerfs 🤔1 -
jadarock✭✭✭✭✭To complain about nbs now after how they've been neutered is laughable. I was having trouble with a nb last night in front of alessia until a fellow AD jumped off the wall chased him around a rock and killed him before i even knew what happened..
Now that nb wasnt going to be able to kill me I can stalemate a single nb but my point is It's definitely a l2p issue. For the most part the only time I see nbs getting kills is when people let their guard down are on seige or picking on low levels...
Stop asking for nerfs please3
