The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Zos has taken steps to even out strength and utility on abilities except for SnB
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Stx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Templars dont use s/b front bar, nightblades and wardens dont either. So because 2 out of 5 classes fairly often use a weapon set as a primary set it is over performing? Right...
You give up a lot by running s/b. We dont need to nerf it into uselessness just because it is defensive in nature. The same players crying about s/b will just find something else to cry about when they fail to kill something.1 -
DeadlyRecluse✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Remember when blocking didn't disable stam regen? That was fun.
Thrice Empress, Forever Scrub0 -
Ragnaroek93✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Nerftheforums wrote: »Ragnaroek93 wrote: »I'd rather see some SOFTcounters to blockhealing and buffing other skill lines instead of flat nerfs. Game has seen enough nerfs.
Nerfs are good, whatchu mean. 5 years in and I saw more nerfs than npcs, so good.
ZOS makes the game more enjoyable by nerfing everything. We're all just too dumb to see it.I used to think that PvP was a tragedy, but now I realize, it's a comedy.1 -
Destyran✭✭✭✭✭Don’t think I have been killed by someone on a SnB bar out side the triple proc meta ever1 -
GeorgeBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Ill take all the serious well written inputs instead of the sarcastic replies.
SnB is overtuned1 -
ZOS_JesCadminGreetings, we've removed several baiting comments. This is a friendly reminder to keep comments constructive and civil when making your point. Personal insults and baiting comments will only derail the thread and result in its closure. Thank you for your understanding.The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
Forum Rules | Code of Conduct | Terms of Service | Home Page | Help Site1 -
Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Perhaps your inane bigotry has blinded you to see only particular views. I suggest you L2P and try something new for a change.SilverPaws wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »SilverPaws wrote: »So funny how many people here complain about snb are players who don't run snb at all
. Sure that 2k heroic slash spam is so hard to survive
Snb runs classes that have no viable alternative - stamdk, stamsorc.
Also both heroic and reverb are expensive abilities on top.
I know crazy... Its almost like players who are using something don't want it nerfed, even if it is overperforming.
Legendary Archer of Valenwood and bow/bow builds okay
Player like you should not comment on balance at all.
Legendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..1 -
SilverPaws✭✭✭✭✭Toc de Malsvi wrote: »
Perhaps your inane bigotry has blinded you to see only particular views. I suggest you L2P and try something new for a change.SilverPaws wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »SilverPaws wrote: »So funny how many people here complain about snb are players who don't run snb at all . Sure that 2k heroic slash spam is so hard to survive
Snb runs classes that have no viable alternative - stamdk, stamsorc.
Also both heroic and reverb are expensive abilities on top.
I know crazy... Its almost like players who are using something don't want it nerfed, even if it is overperforming.
Legendary Archer of Valenwood and bow/bow builds okay Player like you should not comment on balance at all.
You are clearly not good pvp player and yet continue discussing balance when you have no clue on the topic.1 -
Toc de Malsvi✭✭✭✭✭
✭SilverPaws wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »
Perhaps your inane bigotry has blinded you to see only particular views. I suggest you L2P and try something new for a change.SilverPaws wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »SilverPaws wrote: »So funny how many people here complain about snb are players who don't run snb at all . Sure that 2k heroic slash spam is so hard to survive
Snb runs classes that have no viable alternative - stamdk, stamsorc.
Also both heroic and reverb are expensive abilities on top.
I know crazy... Its almost like players who are using something don't want it nerfed, even if it is overperforming.
Legendary Archer of Valenwood and bow/bow builds okay Player like you should not comment on balance at all.
You are clearly not good pvp player and yet continue discussing balance when you have no clue on the topic.
You clearly have never played with, against, or watched me play.
Sometimes people make intentional choices not bent on being the #1. Like for instance some players like to play DKs so they try to be the best DK they can be and don't immediately swap to NB, Warden, etc when they get a good patch. I know its insane to FTM players like yourself, but some players enjoy the game for itself not for least common multiple performance.Legendary Archer of ValenwoodBosmer Dragon Knight Archer. XBox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Nightblade Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Sorcerer Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Bosmer Warden Archer. Xbox One. (Flawless Conqueror Bow/Bow)Templar's are evil..2 -
Wuuffyy✭✭✭✭✭
✭it has
no bleed
no dot
no aoe
no execute
and no high damage spamable (pierce armor can be used as a spamable, but not on the level of uppercut, snipe, etc)
and receives half benefit from enchants
the WHOLE POINT of the line is utility, you give up every kind of relevant damage in the game FOR that utility, that's the point.
PS: listing "snare" as a utility is dumb, almost every darn skill in this game applies a "snare" its something we are all quite annoyed about.
Extremely biased answer here.
1. "no bleed" The role of bleed is to put pressure. Defile put huge pressure. You also forgot that you can bar swap to an other weapon
2. "no dot" Stam build have either class dot or class burst. Again, you also forget that you can dot from other weapon skill line with a bar swap.
3. "no AoE" Granted, even if it's not the purpose of the weapon
4. "no execute" Every single decent stam build run 2h for rally/FM, the stamina execute can be on 2H.
5. "no high damage spamable" this is the worst. It has been proove several time that S&B spammable deal more damage than uppercut and especially this patch, using LA/ransack/bash deal more damage and is cheaper than using cast time skills like uppercut or snipe.
S&B is op for some reasons :
-You can have a high damage spammable (500 less damage than surpise attack) + having 60% snare + minor heroism + minor main.
-You can also choose ransack for better damage at cheaper cost (bash+ransack+major fracture is better damage than all other spammable for a cheap cost), applying major fractue and giving minor resolve.
-You can combine it with a stun that deal damage and apply MAJOR DEFILE, which is the most powerfull debuff in the game.
-You can slot one of the best defensive ultimate if your class doesn't have one : spell wall.
- By having Huge damage and utility, you also have passively the best defensive weapon in the game, giving better and cheaper block, additional resist and armor trait.
S&B is the best damage weapon for single target in PvP and also the best defensive weapon, both make it the best 1vX and 1v1 weapon in the game.
You can back bar 2h for rally/FM and add execute if needed. You can also use carve next patch for ur lovely bleed.
The fact that S&B is a better single target offensive weapon than every other one while also being the best defensive weapon make it OP. That's simple.
Running execute from another skill line isn’t related to SnB
Running burst on dots from another skill line isn’t related to SnB
10k heroic costs 3k Stam and also takes a lot of dmg to get it there
No one cares about 1 v 1 and anything that adds more defense will be the better weapon in a 1 v x
The reason it performs better than dizzy swing is b/c they nerfed a really bad skill into a now unusable skill this patch which needs to be adjusted.Wuuffyy,
ESO player since 2014
-PM for questions4 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭GeorgeBlack wrote: »Even stamNB will turn to SnB now.
Everybody can rely on SnB to carry them through hard times. It's has all the tools and fills all gaps.
Anyway dont take my word for it. Take it from the 1mil tournament competitors.
hmm, I thought they will go HA + 2H spamming cleave
S/B is OK, in fact all stam weapons should be balanced around it. It applies debuffs because it is what tank needs. The gap closer is OK for classes that don't have stam gap closers. It has a toggle (the only really useful in the game).
Sure, heroic is strong, but compare it to the new Brawler.DeadlyRecluse wrote: »Remember when blocking didn't disable stam regen? That was fun.
Stupid Nerf... they could just have reduced stam regen a 50%.
One of the few things that hurt me in this game was the moment when I deconstructed my Black Rose set =(Sarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭This has nothing to do with what I said. Totally irrelevant. Though your claim that 80% of open world Cyrodiil stam builds equip S&B is interesting. You are actually saying that every stam build but NBs use S&B and that seems to be a little to over the top to be accurate. I would like to see how you can back up such an audacious number.
If you carefully read what i wrote you might find that i didn´t write that - ofc you know that because you´re making a strawman argument.
You typed the message without any reference to anyone else making the comment and now claim they were not your words. Then claim what I clearly pointed out as false in how it was worded by try to call me out for making a straw man argument. LOL.
I merely called out what was clearly made up numbers. Nothing else. Do not get on my case because you did not word your statement very well.
Edit: I will not bother replying to any comment you make on this matter. Anyone who bothers to look at the history will see you and you alone made those comments with nothing to attribute them to anyone else leaving only one conclusion, you wrote them and the statement above where you say you "didn't write that" is clearly false making the strawman comment equally as false. Facts speak for themselves very clearly.
But again, your comment had nothing to do with what I had said so it really seems you are just trying to start an argument. Also, Zos made it clear this update was a pass on class skills and weapon skills were not the focus, as has been pointed out. Cheers.Edited by idk on May 20, 2019 5:17PM0 -
Stx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Wolf_Watching wrote: »it has
no bleed
no dot
no aoe
no execute
and no high damage spamable (pierce armor can be used as a spamable, but not on the level of uppercut, snipe, etc)
and receives half benefit from enchants
the WHOLE POINT of the line is utility, you give up every kind of relevant damage in the game FOR that utility, that's the point.
PS: listing "snare" as a utility is dumb, almost every darn skill in this game applies a "snare" its something we are all quite annoyed about.
Extremely biased answer here.
1. "no bleed" The role of bleed is to put pressure. Defile put huge pressure. You also forgot that you can bar swap to an other weapon
2. "no dot" Stam build have either class dot or class burst. Again, you also forget that you can dot from other weapon skill line with a bar swap.
3. "no AoE" Granted, even if it's not the purpose of the weapon
4. "no execute" Every single decent stam build run 2h for rally/FM, the stamina execute can be on 2H.
5. "no high damage spamable" this is the worst. It has been proove several time that S&B spammable deal more damage than uppercut and especially this patch, using LA/ransack/bash deal more damage and is cheaper than using cast time skills like uppercut or snipe.
S&B is op for some reasons :
-You can have a high damage spammable (500 less damage than surpise attack) + having 60% snare + minor heroism + minor main.
-You can also choose ransack for better damage at cheaper cost (bash+ransack+major fracture is better damage than all other spammable for a cheap cost), applying major fractue and giving minor resolve.
-You can combine it with a stun that deal damage and apply MAJOR DEFILE, which is the most powerfull debuff in the game.
-You can slot one of the best defensive ultimate if your class doesn't have one : spell wall.
- By having Huge damage and utility, you also have passively the best defensive weapon in the game, giving better and cheaper block, additional resist and armor trait.
S&B is the best damage weapon for single target in PvP and also the best defensive weapon, both make it the best 1vX and 1v1 weapon in the game.
You can back bar 2h for rally/FM and add execute if needed. You can also use carve next patch for ur lovely bleed.
The fact that S&B is a better single target offensive weapon than every other one while also being the best defensive weapon make it OP. That's simple.
Running execute from another skill line isn’t related to SnB
Running burst on dots from another skill line isn’t related to SnB
10k heroic costs 3k Stam and also takes a lot of dmg to get it there
No one cares about 1 v 1 and anything that adds more defense will be the better weapon in a 1 v x
The reason it performs better than dizzy swing is b/c they nerfed a really bad skill into a now unusable skill this patch which needs to be adjusted.
^ This. Using other weapons skill lines to say that sword and board is too good makes no sense.
A big reason why people probably use sword and board is because they have failed to design dizzy swing and flurry in a way that functions in pvp. There is a reason why no one uses sword and board for dps in pve, it's because it does a LOT less damage.4 -
Militan1404✭✭✭Savos_Saren wrote: »100% Agree OP. Definitely need to change the SnB passive that gives 5% weapon damage to 2.5% weapon and 2.5% spell damage. It's a nerf... and a buff for some of us.
Why on earth should sword&board do mag dmg??? Dosent make any sense at all
1 -
Xvorg✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Militan1404 wrote: »Savos_Saren wrote: »100% Agree OP. Definitely need to change the SnB passive that gives 5% weapon damage to 2.5% weapon and 2.5% spell damage. It's a nerf... and a buff for some of us.
Why on earth should sword&board do mag dmg??? Dosent make any sense at all
mDK and magplar have to run S/B since both are classes with a melee spammable. Besides, 2.5 % spell and wpn dmg do not harm tanksSarcasm is something too serious to be taken lightly
I was born with the wrong sign
In the wrong house
With the wrong ascendancy
I took the wrong road
That led to the wrong tendencies
I was in the wrong place at the wrong time
For the wrong reason and the wrong rhyme
On the wrong day of the wrong week
Used the wrong method with the wrong technique0 -
_Salty_✭✭✭✭✭it has
no bleed
no dot
no aoe
no execute
and no high damage spamable (pierce armor can be used as a spamable, but not on the level of uppercut, snipe, etc)
and receives half benefit from enchants
the WHOLE POINT of the line is utility, you give up every kind of relevant damage in the game FOR that utility, that's the point.
PS: listing "snare" as a utility is dumb, almost every darn skill in this game applies a "snare" its something we are all quite annoyed about.
10k heroic slash in PvP good enough for a spammable?
Defenders of SnB in pvp will pretend its not OP until they see every NB running it next patch. They honestly should have been doing it 2 patches ago. I won't be in PvP after Monday, so I can enjoy the laughs on the forums when people realize how OP it is.
I've run SnB nightblade since console launch.........Its always been good.Psn l---Salty---l
Patiently waiting to make a Stankcromancer.1 -
Murador178✭✭✭✭SilverPaws wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »SilverPaws wrote: »So funny how many people here complain about snb are players who don't run snb at all . Sure that 2k heroic slash spam is so hard to survive
Snb runs classes that have no viable alternative - stamdk, stamsorc.
Also both heroic and reverb are expensive abilities on top.
I know crazy... Its almost like players who are using something don't want it nerfed, even if it is overperforming.
Legendary Archer of Valenwood and bow/bow builds okay Player like you should not comment on balance at all.
I think players like u should not be allowed to write in the forums . Why do u think literally everybody except stamina nbs are running sword and board in duels- and stamina nbs also run them in tournaments because its just stronger, but atleast u can slaughter all the squishies with 2h/bow at the duel spot. Why is every duel tournament won by sword and board users - atleast on PC EU. And why is more than half of cyro running sword and board as a main skillline:
- 1st of all: stam dk/ stam sorc lack a viable alternative to heroic slash - lets be fair every spammable in the game is weaker as heroic slash except maybe SA - so pretty sure that in duels even as stamblade heroic slash will be better this patch
- 2nd of all: bashcanceling gives ur more dps than other skilllines and blockcanceling makes u quite tanky. Block migation is quite absurd and the lack of abilities countering block compared to rolldodge makes it a very easy to use defense...
- 3rd: major defile is too strong for an ultimate but seemingly not for a Sword and Board player
.
- 4th: Snb Ult is rly good for tanking openworld like 5-6 guys.
Sword and board should be a utility defense skillline and not the best skillline for pressure giving great defense ontop. The sad part is that u dont even notice a big difference between many stam classes since they almost only weaponskills. - Another slash spammer ...
@idk so ur not diversifying between a complain that is based on argumentation and a complain for the sake of complaining. I see u in every thread telling everybody that they are wrong - but u seem to be never on topic... But probably thats why u got 10 stars.Edited by Murador178 on May 21, 2019 4:16PM5 -
SilverPaws✭✭✭✭✭Murador178 wrote: »SilverPaws wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »SilverPaws wrote: »So funny how many people here complain about snb are players who don't run snb at all . Sure that 2k heroic slash spam is so hard to survive
Snb runs classes that have no viable alternative - stamdk, stamsorc.
Also both heroic and reverb are expensive abilities on top.
I know crazy... Its almost like players who are using something don't want it nerfed, even if it is overperforming.
Legendary Archer of Valenwood and bow/bow builds okay Player like you should not comment on balance at all.
I think players like u should not be allowed to write in the forums . Why do u think literally everybody except stamina nbs are running sword and board in duels- and stamina nbs also run them in tournaments because its just stronger, but atleast u can slaughter all the squishies with 2h/bow at the duel spot. Why is every duel tournament won by sword and board users - atleast on PC EU. And why is more than half of cyro running sword and board as a main skillline:
- 1st of all: stam dk/ stam sorc lack a viable alternative to heroic slash - lets be fair every spammable in the game is weaker as heroic slash except maybe SA - so pretty sure that in duels even as stamblade heroic slash will be better this patch
- 2nd of all: bashcanceling gives ur more dps than other skilllines and blockcanceling makes u quite tanky. Block migation is quite absurd and the lack of abilities countering block compared to rolldodge makes it a very easy to use defense...
- 3rd: major defile is too strong for an ultimate but seemingly not for a Sword and Board player .
- 4th: Snb Ult is rly good for tanking openworld like 5-6 guys.
Sword and board should be a utility defense skillline and not the best skillline for pressure giving great defense ontop. The sad part is that u dont even notice a big difference between many stam classes since they almost only weaponskills. - Another slash spammer ...
@idk so ur not diversifying between a complain that is based on argumentation and a complain for the sake of complaining. I see u in every thread telling everybody that they are wrong - but u seem to be never on topic... But probably thats why u got 10 stars.
You have no idea what are you talking about, but i leave it here to you forum experts. No point arguing here anymore
Edited by SilverPaws on May 21, 2019 7:37PM1 -
idk✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Murador178 wrote: »SilverPaws wrote: »Toc de Malsvi wrote: »SilverPaws wrote: »So funny how many people here complain about snb are players who don't run snb at all . Sure that 2k heroic slash spam is so hard to survive
Snb runs classes that have no viable alternative - stamdk, stamsorc.
Also both heroic and reverb are expensive abilities on top.
I know crazy... Its almost like players who are using something don't want it nerfed, even if it is overperforming.
Legendary Archer of Valenwood and bow/bow builds okay Player like you should not comment on balance at all.
I think players like u should not be allowed to write in the forums . Why do u think literally everybody except stamina nbs are running sword and board in duels- and stamina nbs also run them in tournaments because its just stronger, but atleast u can slaughter all the squishies with 2h/bow at the duel spot. Why is every duel tournament won by sword and board users - atleast on PC EU. And why is more than half of cyro running sword and board as a main skillline:
- 1st of all: stam dk/ stam sorc lack a viable alternative to heroic slash - lets be fair every spammable in the game is weaker as heroic slash except maybe SA - so pretty sure that in duels even as stamblade heroic slash will be better this patch
- 2nd of all: bashcanceling gives ur more dps than other skilllines and blockcanceling makes u quite tanky. Block migation is quite absurd and the lack of abilities countering block compared to rolldodge makes it a very easy to use defense...
- 3rd: major defile is too strong for an ultimate but seemingly not for a Sword and Board player .
- 4th: Snb Ult is rly good for tanking openworld like 5-6 guys.
Sword and board should be a utility defense skillline and not the best skillline for pressure giving great defense ontop. The sad part is that u dont even notice a big difference between many stam classes since they almost only weaponskills. - Another slash spammer ...
@idk so ur not diversifying between a complain that is based on argumentation and a complain for the sake of complaining. I see u in every thread telling everybody that they are wrong - but u seem to be never on topic... But probably thats why u got 10 stars.
LOL. I was on topic yet your reply to my comment had nothing to do with my comment and created a strawman argument that is clearly false yet you make this kind of comment in reply.
I agree with @silverpaws0 -
Stx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Dueling does not matter from a game balance perspective. Stop using that in your arguments...1 -
Vapirko✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think it would be sad to see SB go to just tanking. In what world is SB not a viable choice for offensive combat? And I don’t even run that setup in PvP most of the time. It’s just nice to have the option. 2H is garbage and really only good for rally/fm and it’s passives. The gap closer and execute are nice but mostly luxuries if you have the bar space. DW is really just good for rending slashes or spin to win cheese if that’s even a thing anymore and you want to play that way. Currently SB is the only melee option with multiple weavable attacks that provides classes like Stamplar and Stam sorc a way to get fracture and defile. Otherwise we really have no options. Stam sorcs have 0 debuffs via their class and Stamplar only gets minor fracture. This is so far behind other classes it’s a joke.Edited by Vapirko on May 22, 2019 3:53AM1 -
Stx✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭2 hand execute and crit charge aren't luxuries... and the new carve and brawler are both very good too.
2H, dual wield, and s/b all have strengths and that's balanced. 2h and dw spammables aren't reliable and that's what needs to be fixed, not nerfing s/b because its niche is 1v1s.0 -
Beffagorn✭✭✭OP uses a DW bleed-dot-spin2win build (possibily with deadly strike too), complains about SnB not being "evened out"
This must be a joke, right?2 -
Beffagorn✭✭✭GeorgeBlack wrote: »
I'll give you a hint. Naming your stamdk like your forum account name isn't the best way to not be recognized ingame.
You could deny using that build, but i'm not sure how useful that would be. I'm pretty sure i'm not the only one that has encountered you ingame.1 -
psychotic13✭✭✭✭✭
✭it has
no bleed
no dot
no aoe
no execute
and no high damage spamable (pierce armor can be used as a spamable, but not on the level of uppercut, snipe, etc)
and receives half benefit from enchants
the WHOLE POINT of the line is utility, you give up every kind of relevant damage in the game FOR that utility, that's the point.
PS: listing "snare" as a utility is dumb, almost every darn skill in this game applies a "snare" its something we are all quite annoyed about.
How can you compare piece armor to snipe or dizzy? That alone just invalidates everything youve said as snipe and dizzy have cast times and are not comparable.
FYI, piece armor bash cancel does more damage than dizzy so theres that.
It is overperforming.1 -
GeorgeBlack✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭GeorgeBlack wrote: »
I'll give you a hint. Naming your stamdk like your forum account name isn't the best way to not be recognized ingame.
You could deny using that build, but i'm not sure how useful that would be. I'm pretty sure i'm not the only one that has encountered you ingame.
You were 100% wrong on the gear sets.
Mind you I have been calling for master DW nerfs so there you are again without anything to add to the SnB discussion. ByeEdited by GeorgeBlack on May 23, 2019 12:04PM0 -
SilverPaws✭✭✭✭✭psychotic13 wrote: »it has
no bleed
no dot
no aoe
no execute
and no high damage spamable (pierce armor can be used as a spamable, but not on the level of uppercut, snipe, etc)
and receives half benefit from enchants
the WHOLE POINT of the line is utility, you give up every kind of relevant damage in the game FOR that utility, that's the point.
PS: listing "snare" as a utility is dumb, almost every darn skill in this game applies a "snare" its something we are all quite annoyed about.
How can you compare piece armor to snipe or dizzy? That alone just invalidates everything youve said as snipe and dizzy have cast times and are not comparable.
FYI, piece armor bash cancel does more damage than dizzy so theres that.
It is overperforming.
Telling that pierce armor with bash does more damage than burst build with dizzy You have no idea what you talk about 0