Please NERF STEEL TORNADO AND ASSOCIATED PASSIVE SLAUGHTER AND REWORK BLEEDS

PassionThorn · October 2018

I can point out a couple things right now that have pvp extremely broken (bleeds & duel wield spin to win skill STEEL TORNADO, and the passives that make it op). One thing I have noticed lately is that we are being forced to run these sorts of skills/builds to compete. More so than it just being the builds that are broken, its the way certain skills work and bleeds, I think its completely stupid that bleeds can bypass all resistances for one and that topped with this! : Launch yourself into a lethal spin, dealing [x] Physical Damage to nearby enemies.
Deals up to 100% more damage to enemies based on each percentage of their missing health, that's 100% more dmg from this skill and on top of that then this passive kicks in "Increases damage with Dual Wield abilities by 20% against enemies under 25% Health". So what I am looking at is that my dmg with that skill is doubled when enemy gets low on health, and then again increased by another 20%, no one skill should be that powerful along with passives, not to mention adding bloodthirsty to the equation which makes it even more broken, and with bleeds on top of ordinary class skills it dont take long to get a player to the 25% health mark. I think that duel wield skill STEEL TORNADO and the passive SLAUGHTER need to be reworked or nerfed, as well as BLEEDS cause if you combine that skill with bleeds it a no brainier that the person running that is going to win the fight 9 times out of ten cause there is 0 way to fight it or defend against it. What this skill and the passives associated with this skill line along with bleeds are doing is forcing everyone to run these skills in order to be able to compete in pvp. Just the other day I was fighting a stam sorc running this sort of set up, so they have hurricane going and bleeds on me, I am a nightblade so I try to stealth up nope that gets stopped cause of Steel Tornado which reveals me from stealth so I try to heal up and dodge roll on bow bar to run away well stam sorc just uses streak or speed pots and is right back to where I am again to start the punishing bleeds hurricane and steel tornado I think you can see where this fight went and this is not just with this guy I see almost every class now in pvp having to resort to these skills to have any chance against another running this ***, my solution to this problem NERF DUEL WIELD PASSIVE SLAUGHTER A BIT AND MAKE IT TO WHERE STEEL TORNADO CAN BE DODGED AND OR REMOVE IT BEING ABLE TO REVEAL STEALTH PLAYERS OR SOMETHING, AND MAYBE MAKE BLEEDS NOT COMPLETELY IGNORE RESISTANCES MAYBE MAKE THEM JUST GO THROUGH RESISTANCES A BIT MORE THAN MOST OTHER SKILLS BUT GOING COMPLETELY THOUGH IS STUPID CAUSE WHAT IS THE POINT OF RESISTANCES IF YOU CANT EVEN USE THEM.

The problem here is not just one skill or skill line passive its how they are being utilized together to make a completely overpowered rotation of skills and passives combined, its forcing players into these skills in order to fight another one running them, the builds that go with these skills may vary ever so slightly but its not the builds that are op in this matter its the skills and passives for STEEL TORNADO and the Duel Wield Skill line and the BLEED and dots that are hitting you while someone is using STEEL TORNADO. Mabye I am wrong but this is just my thoughts on this dumb meta going on that at this point is not going to die down any time soon until a rework or a nerf. This is ruining pvp and build and skill diversity in pvp, when I or anyone else literally cannot win against another player who is running with this sort of set up I have even seen good players get killed by inexperienced players because of this, and how broken it is.

PassionThorn · October 2018

Thats exactly what I am saying is that the skills I mentioned above along with bleeds, allow for zero counter play or build/ skill diversity the only counter play is this, IF YOU CANT BEAT THEM JOIN THEM, and that is not how the game should be everyone should not be forced to use the same few broken skills to compete and then having it come down to who can bleed out faster and spin to win better

Hotdog_23 · October 2018

Honestly I take damage from bleeds and spin to win as much as anyone else but I don't think I die to it more than any other execute skill in the game. At least you have to get close for it to work. I have more of a issue with ranged execute skills and then only because I think they are cheesier to use.

PassionThorn · October 2018

This post is not about ranged executes its about skills with 0 counter play I mean I would love for someone to hop on here and tell me how I am supposed to fight players who can apply bleeds to me on top of dmg from proc sets and class skills, and then steel tornado me into the ground in a matter of seconds or a matter of time lol, and all I can do is spam vigor and rally only to run out of stam and die anyway or I can run in which case they just run after you chase you down all the while applying more bleeds while your trying to escape them and then they again begin to spam spin on you and kill you tell me how to defend against that? Even with invisible pots and or night blade stealth you cant get away cause steel tornado reveals you from stealth. at least with a sorc or magblade who have ranged execute you can get away or defend against them by dodge rolling attacks and such so I am not seeing your argument. I also have been playing this game for over 4 years now and have never once come on the forum to say anything about broken stuff I am a pretty good player in the game, and pretty well known in pvp as being a decent player, and when I start to noticed almost 80% of the pvp population is running this or old players I know that used to run bow are being forced to now run duel wield and only two hand for the weap dmg buff then I think its safe to say there is a problem.

PassionThorn · October 2018

I can easily dodge roll sorc ranged attacks or use invisible pots or speed pots to get within range of them and still kill them, but with someone running spin to win skill that only gets more powerful the lower you get in health and on top of that has dots wearing you down there is no way to out play that and yes you have to be close up for that to work but its not hard for a stam player with these skills to get close to you and do this and once they are close to you, whether that be by speed pots, stam sorc streak, or stam den wings speed, once they are in range I don't care who you are unless you have similar skills on bar you are going to die unless your a sorc who can just spam streak indefinably but that a whole other topic cause everybody already knows sorcs overperform and always will most likley

idk · October 2018

PassionThorn wrote: »

This post is not about ranged executes its about skills with 0 counter play I mean I would love for someone to hop on here and tell me how I am supposed to fight players who can apply bleeds to me on top of dmg from proc sets and class skills,.

That is about as far as I got. Sorry, but multiple paragraphs fused into one is my weak point.

The issue is Zos made bleeds into the counter for HA builds. Zos tends to not think things through and this has been an issue since before this game launched. CP with the original 3600 cap and the expectation that most players would be at that cap in less than 2 years (before they modified CP gain) clearly shows this.

So the only counter to bleeds is a cleans. Which of course is available to all

For proc sets, well, ESO has become Elder Proc Sets Online. Yes, we had some proc sets when the game launched. None were great iirc. The addition of monster sets, which were all procs, was not bad but Zos just went crazy. So now we have a game were the sets we equip do the fighting for us.

So in the end, Zos will probably do more to screw things up than create a balance when they do decide to address bleed damage.

All of this is why we have heavy handed changes multiple times a year. All because Zos does not think things through and does not really understand how their game works.

Qbiken · October 2018

(Disclaimer: I don´t know what kind of build/setup you use so general tips to counter the steel tornado spamming)

If you´re a nightblade and not utilizing shade to get out of range of Hurricane and Steel tornado, I would highly recommend trying it out. Unless you run a heavy armor stamblade there´s no real excuse not to use shade.

Shade + Cloak + Rally = Fight has been reset and you´re good to go. Even if they use detection pots or streak after you, a well-placed shade is in 9/10 cases a safe way to recover (unless you get really unlucky and get an implosion proc on you).

DivineFirstYOLO · October 2018

Bleeds and steel tornado have been the same for like at least 2 years, the only change to steel tornado was that it now hits rolling enemies. Everything else remained the same as far as i know.

..and people using DW have no other stun than dawn breaker most of the time..so.. learn to fear and shade i guess

Checkmath · October 2018

Well rending slashes get a nice buff with murkmire. The enchant procs with at least one infused weapon will do more damage than the actual rending slash damage.

Hotdog_23 · October 2018

Look I'm sorry "STEEL TORNADO" killed you and apparently more than a few times. Whenever I get killed by it generally the other player has already busted me down and is just using it for a execute. If it was not the steel tornado that killed me I am sure some other skill would have done it.Yes it hits hard and is very effective when used like this.

Please relax and take a breath and try not to get so worked up and angry about it. It is not healthy for the soul. Take a break and enjoy a different experience that ESO has to offer, it's not all about PVP and killing others.

For the record I PVP on 6 different characters and only use steel tornado on one of them and it is not what I think my best PVP character is.

Feanor · October 2018

That playstyle is utilized by approximately 90% of stam chars and thus totally fine of course.

raasdal · October 2018

If you have any kind of problem dealing with anyone using Steel Tornado in a 1v1, then you need to take a deep hard look inwards, and hopefully realize that you need to L2P.

Steel Tornado is a strong group tool, due to it being undodgeable. But that's about it. Even WITH all the passives, that OP is listing (even though he clearly has no clue how the percentages actually work) it is still a bad execute, and outperformed by basically all other single target executes, in terms of damage.

Steel Tornado is great for grinding down potatoes, finishing off pesky nightblades or other dodgeroll monkeys. What it is NOT, is overpowered in any way.

Sharee · October 2018

raasdal wrote: »

Steel Tornado is a strong group tool, due to it being undodgeable. But that's about it. Even WITH all the passives, that OP is listing (even though he clearly has no clue how the percentages actually work) it is still a bad execute, and outperformed by basically all other single target executes, in terms of damage.

Not if you count in the fact other executes often deal no damage due to being dodged. Your dismissive "that's about it" is in fact one of the most powerful attributes an attack can have - undodgeable. Due to this single "that's about it" steel tornado in real combat situations outperform all other executes that are dodgeable by a significant margin, against any target which utilizes dodge, or cloak.

And it is not only strong as "group tool", groups just take the already OP damage and ramp it up by a factor of six.

DirkRavenclaw · October 2018

Honestly? Everything what gets people killed, gets a nerf thread, please stop nerfing and make stuff more powerfull

oxygen_thief · October 2018

DivineFirstYOLO wrote: »

..and people using DW have no other stun than dawn breaker most of the time..so.. learn to fear and shade i guess

its wrong iam leveling up a heavy bleed stamblade and he has a fear too.

JAwtunes · October 2018

Sharee wrote: »

raasdal wrote: »

Steel Tornado is a strong group tool, due to it being undodgeable. But that's about it. Even WITH all the passives, that OP is listing (even though he clearly has no clue how the percentages actually work) it is still a bad execute, and outperformed by basically all other single target executes, in terms of damage.

Not if you count in the fact other executes often deal no damage due to being dodged. Your dismissive "that's about it" is in fact one of the most powerful attributes an attack can have - undodgeable. Due to this single "that's about it" steel tornado in real combat situations outperform all other executes that are dodgeable by a significant margin, against any target which utilizes dodge, or cloak.

And it is not only strong as "group tool", groups just take the already OP damage and ramp it up by a factor of six.

Well said.
I'm not too fussed about the skill tbh, its really strong but so are loads of other skills, sets etc. One thing I would add is that it is an easy skill to use as it requires no targeting, which can be a significant advantage in laggy PVP land. You don't even have to be looking at your 'target', or indeed your screen!

Thraben · October 2018

PassionThorn wrote: »

Just the other day I was fighting a stam sorc running this sort of set up, so they have hurricane going and bleeds on me, I am a nightblade .

So you are a Nightblade complaining about OP StamSorcs. I would have never guessed it judging from your headline, and/ or general writing style.

Maybe it comforts you that StamSorcs are in a worse spot after the patch, probably to atone for the countless times they got poor, valiant Stamblades out of stealth, just to finish them using their superior class skills.

The evil StamSorcs will do 25% less damage against StamBlades after the next patch, so maybe then you will have a fair chance (to run away).

Chrlynsch · October 2018

Should have to pick up all them swords before you can use the ability again.

Exodium · October 2018

You realise if you nerf rending and steel tornado (which aren't a problem at all) there is no longer a reason to run dual wield? 2h execute is already better. SnB gets defile, minor main, a hard cc...

Why would you even bother running dw and not 2h or SnB?

frostz417 · October 2018

Another l2p issue.
Steel tornado and dw has remained the same for two years. Has so much counter play to it, it’s not even funny. Learn to heal and block, and if you’re a nightblade use shade. It’s an execute soooo. Tbh most people who cry about steel tornado are cloak blades who don’t know how to do anything but spam cloak, or zerglings. Sick of these absurd nerf threads from zerglings who don’t know how to play eso PvP. Git gud and learn how to counter. Wolf hunter is arguably the most balanced the game has been, with nerfmire upon us it’s going to make everything unbalanced again.

Also, if zerglings used their brains and read the patch notes they’d notice that major evasion now provides 25% aoe damage mitigation. This includes steel tornado, dawnbreaker, jabs, leap, meteor, destro ult, proxy det, etc. So you zerglings will now be able to survive getting spanked by a smaller more superior group when they drop AOE skills on you.

Let’s also recall dw has no stuns at all, their passives are made to help with executes. Since they have nothing else. So once again l2p

ZOS_JesC · October 2018

Greetings, we've closed this thread and removed several baiting comments since it has derailed.