Where are all the Ohmes?

Smasherx74 · December 2017

"The Ohmes is the most Mer-like Khajiit. They are shorter than a Bosmer and have similar pointed ears. Unlike other Khajiit they have no fur, no tail, and no naturally occurring distinguishable Khajiit feature. To distinguish themselves from Mer, the Ohmes usually paint their faces with 'catlike' war paint.

The Ohmes were a common sight across Tamriel before the end of the 4th century of the 3rd Era. After this time period, they became a rare sight outside of Elsweyr" - From elder scrolls wikia.

Bethesda why are there no Ohmes? They're suppose to be common during the pre-4th century of 3rd era. Will ohmes become a playable race or will there be lore introduced to explain why we've never seen a single one?

Jim_Pipp · December 2017

Not including the pantheon of Khajiit has really made eso feel incomplete and incompatible with the elder scrolls lore.

I wish a few more varieties of khajiit were retro-actively added, replacing some of the Khajiit NPC'S with more varied kittens.

E.g. make some of the Mane's guards an enormous sench-raht. They don't have dialogue so it would just be putting a big senche in the background.

Add alfiiq, the little psychic house cats. They can't talk except telepathically, but there is no reason they couldn't replace a couple of khajiiti merchants in Khenarthi's roost, Redfur trading post, Reapers March and especially Dune.

Most importantly. Ohmes are really just bosmer with fierce face and body tattoo's. It must be easy to replace a few khajiit with these tattoo'd bosmer (don't change their accented dialogue).

Sell the Ohmes tattoo pack in the Crown store!!! These small changes really would make the world seem bigger and more mysterious.

Ajaxandriel · December 2017

Smasherx74 wrote: »

- From elder scrolls wikia.

Where are all the Ohmes?

In fanlore. Literally.

*insert deal-with-it meme here*

Okay to be more precise, folklore about Ohmes was just a way to explain the appearance of the khajiit in TES:Arena, instead of retcon it.

Besides, Ohmes are not a big deal, they're indistinguishable from bosmer ...So there may be some bosmers here and there who are in fact...khajiits...on the "mer" side of the species continuum

I saw one NPC with face tatoo living among khajiit somewhere in the game.
Wether they are true khajiit under moon effect, or (stable) hybrids, or even adopted bosmer, it's still all a matter of interpretation then.

WhiteCoatSyndrome · December 2017

I would also like to see more Khajiiti variants. I'm fine if they're not playable, but when all they have to do to include them as NPCs is use a housecat model with dialog or make a smaller Bosmer model I don't understand why they haven't already.

Smasherx74 · December 2017

Ajaxandriel wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

- From elder scrolls wikia.

Where are all the Ohmes?

In fanlore. Literally.

*insert deal-with-it meme here*

Okay to be more precise, folklore about Ohmes was just a way to explain the appearance of the khajiit in TES:Arena, instead of retcon it.

Besides, Ohmes are not a big deal, they're indistinguishable from bosmer ...So there may be some bosmers here and there who are in fact...khajiits...on the "mer" side of the species continuum
I saw one NPC with face tatoo living among khajiit somewhere in the game.
Wether they are true khajiit under moon effect, or (stable) hybrids, or even adopted bosmer, it's still all a matter of interpretation then.

I'm not sure how it's fan lore if they're in an actual elder scrolls game.

We cannot assume some bosmer are actually ohmes, they're two different races and ohmes have pointy ears. We could make the argument that Ohme have become so interacially breeded that they're no longer distinct, but that's out the window because we're in the 2nd era and they had plenty of ohme in the third.

Really this is a huge oversight by Zenimax. Shamefully untrue the story.

newtinmpls · December 2017

Smasherx74 wrote: »

We cannot assume some bosmer are actually ohmes,.

True, but I think were I looking to rp an ohmes, I would be okay using a bosmer 'template'

Smasherx74 · December 2017

newtinmpls wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

We cannot assume some bosmer are actually ohmes,.

True, but I think were I looking to rp an ohmes, I would be okay using a bosmer 'template'

Idc about roleplay tbh. I care about the plot, and story.

Unless they tell me there was a dragonbreak that caused the existence of all other khajiit forms to be forgotten / disappear then I'm going to be extremely triggered.

newtinmpls · December 2017

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Idc about roleplay tbh. I care about the plot, and story.

for me rp and lore are intertwined, and in ESO ya kinda have to use the former to make up for the uncooked hash that is the latter.

Ratzkifal · December 2017

They really haven't done justice to the Khajiiti diversity and lore in any game so far. The mane has hair reaching all the way to the ground if taken literally, and

there can only be one mane alive at a time, meaning that what we see in the dominion quest line is in direct conflict with the lore. After all, who is born a mane gets determined by the moon at birth so a ritual can't fix that retroactively.

Like with so many other things, ESO bent the lore to make it work as a game. Adding more Khajiiti subspecies is a lot of effort for little reward. It would be difficult to do them justice without overrepresenting Khajiit in the game, specifically the Dominion quests. Perhaps with a future expansion this can be fixed, which is why I am glad Elswyer was not included in the original Alliance zones (apart from Reaper's March and Khenarti's roost).

dodgehopper_ESO · December 2017

Ratzkifal wrote: »

They really haven't done justice to the Khajiiti diversity and lore in any game so far. The mane has hair reaching all the way to the ground if taken literally, and
there can only be one mane alive at a time, meaning that what we see in the dominion quest line is in direct conflict with the lore. After all, who is born a mane gets determined by the moon at birth so a ritual can't fix that retroactively.

Like with so many other things, ESO bent the lore to make it work as a game. Adding more Khajiiti subspecies is a lot of effort for little reward. It would be difficult to do them justice without overrepresenting Khajiit in the game, specifically the Dominion quests. Perhaps with a future expansion this can be fixed, which is why I am glad Elswyer was not included in the original Alliance zones (apart from Reaper's March and Khenarti's roost).

It does not seem like a lot of effort at all particularly when adjusting some art assets is all it requires. The Argonians have Naga and those Giant subspecies and it would like to see more of the strange variants. It does not have to be a player-variant although that would be interesting as well. In fact I would love to play as the tall and thin fishfaced Naga subspecies of Argonian. The same is true of Khajiit. It would be nice to see the big Hulking Khajiit brutes as a guard here in there. It would be nice to see a housecat sized Khajiit with quest dialogue. It would be nice to see the more elflike Khajiit as well. It really doesn't seem me to be that hard just to add it in either going forward like they've done with Argonians or even retouching older npc's (probably when working other new quests).

MythicEmperor · December 2017

They will probably diversify the Khajiit in an Elsweyr expansion similarly to how they diversified the Dunmer in the "Morrowind" (Vvardenfell) expansion. Most of the base races are lacking, but that is to be expected when you have to touch on each one for the base game's release.

Ratzkifal · December 2017

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Ratzkifal wrote: »

They really haven't done justice to the Khajiiti diversity and lore in any game so far. The mane has hair reaching all the way to the ground if taken literally, and
there can only be one mane alive at a time, meaning that what we see in the dominion quest line is in direct conflict with the lore. After all, who is born a mane gets determined by the moon at birth so a ritual can't fix that retroactively.

Like with so many other things, ESO bent the lore to make it work as a game. Adding more Khajiiti subspecies is a lot of effort for little reward. It would be difficult to do them justice without overrepresenting Khajiit in the game, specifically the Dominion quests. Perhaps with a future expansion this can be fixed, which is why I am glad Elswyer was not included in the original Alliance zones (apart from Reaper's March and Khenarti's roost).

It does not seem like a lot of effort at all particularly when adjusting some art assets is all it requires. The Argonians have Naga and those Giant subspecies and it would like to see more of the strange variants. It does not have to be a player-variant although that would be interesting as well. In fact I would love to play as the tall and thin fishfaced Naga subspecies of Argonian. The same is true of Khajiit. It would be nice to see the big Hulking Khajiit brutes as a guard here in there. It would be nice to see a housecat sized Khajiit with quest dialogue. It would be nice to see the more elflike Khajiit as well. It really doesn't seem me to be that hard just to add it in either going forward like they've done with Argonians or even retouching older npc's (probably when working other new quests).

You'd want those tied into proper quests though, with lore weaved into them. I imagine that is actually pretty challenging, especially since ESO would be the first game to realize these ideas. You are right though, I forgot about the Argonian Behemoths we see here and there. Maybe there is hope yet.
As a side note, has any game acknowledged that Argonians sometimes change sex in the middle of their lives? I mean other than through books.

Elsonso · December 2017

Interesting, but I am sensing some resistance in this thread.

WhiteCoatSyndrome · December 2017

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

It really doesn't seem me to be that hard just to add it in either going forward like they've done with Argonians or even retouching older npc's (probably when working other new quests).

They did redo the dro-M'Athra in Stonefalls to match the Maw of Lorkaj when it came out so there's hope there.

Ajaxandriel · December 2017

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Ajaxandriel wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

- From elder scrolls wikia.

Where are all the Ohmes?

In fanlore. Literally.

*insert deal-with-it meme here*

Okay to be more precise, folklore about Ohmes was just a way to explain the appearance of the khajiit in TES:Arena, instead of retcon it.

Besides, Ohmes are not a big deal, they're indistinguishable from bosmer ...So there may be some bosmers here and there who are in fact...khajiits...on the "mer" side of the species continuum
I saw one NPC with face tatoo living among khajiit somewhere in the game.
Wether they are true khajiit under moon effect, or (stable) hybrids, or even adopted bosmer, it's still all a matter of interpretation then.

I'm not sure how it's fan lore if they're in an actual elder scrolls game.

We cannot assume some bosmer are actually ohmes, they're two different races and ohmes have pointy ears. We could make the argument that Ohme have become so interacially breeded that they're no longer distinct, but that's out the window because we're in the 2nd era and they had plenty of ohme in the third.

Really this is a huge oversight by Zenimax. Shamefully untrue the story.

But there're not in actual ESO game yet.

And I can't see how you can be so affirmative. You are just willing to believe there... I suspect you take wikia information for gospel. Let's check the (in-universe) sources of this.
Then...
- So where did you see "they're two different races" ? Have you led some genetic experiment to support the thesis ?

- Well, the ohmes have pointy ears, so according to you the bosmer have not ?
- How could the appearance of many ohmes in the third era invalidate ...their appearance after the second era ?

I was just trying to put the lore in its right order there : to explain the facts, not to divert in some "the actual lore must be that"

Smasherx74 wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

We cannot assume some bosmer are actually ohmes,.

True, but I think were I looking to rp an ohmes, I would be okay using a bosmer 'template'

Idc about roleplay tbh. I care about the plot, and story.

Unless they tell me there was a dragonbreak that caused the existence of all other khajiit forms to be forgotten / disappear then I'm going to be extremely triggered.

"triggered"
That's what I called fan lore

I can understand, since I have fan lore too (about altmer) but we should try and be aware of that

M_Volsung · December 2017

They're on the range... you know, where the deer and the antelope play.

notimetocare · December 2017

Wikia iz bad.
The pantheon of possible sub-khajiit have barely, if ever, actually made it into a game

Danikat · December 2017

In spite of the lore each TES game has only had 1 breed of khajiit in it, and they've always justified it with "this one is most common at this time/in this place". Which kind-of worked for Daggerfall, Morrowind, Oblivion (less so IMO due to being adjacent to Elsweyr) and Skyrim where we're restricted to 1 province and khajiit of any kind are relatively rare.

It doesn't really work for Arena or ESO where we go all over, including into part of Elsyweyr. If I remember correctly in Arena they hadn't fully developed the concept of the khajiit yet, they were literally elves who claimed to be descended from jungle cats and painted their faces to look like their ancestors. The different breeds, and most of them actually looking like cats, was a retcon. (Although the reverse may also be true - they lacked the capacity to make entirely separate models for khajiit so they made up an excuse for the 'cat people' to look human.)

I'd love to see all the breeds represented in a game, but I suspect it'd have to be set in Elsyweyr to justify the effort involved.

Smasherx74 · December 2017

Ajaxandriel wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

Ajaxandriel wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

- From elder scrolls wikia.

Where are all the Ohmes?

In fanlore. Literally.

*insert deal-with-it meme here*

Okay to be more precise, folklore about Ohmes was just a way to explain the appearance of the khajiit in TES:Arena, instead of retcon it.

Besides, Ohmes are not a big deal, they're indistinguishable from bosmer ...So there may be some bosmers here and there who are in fact...khajiits...on the "mer" side of the species continuum
I saw one NPC with face tatoo living among khajiit somewhere in the game.
Wether they are true khajiit under moon effect, or (stable) hybrids, or even adopted bosmer, it's still all a matter of interpretation then.

I'm not sure how it's fan lore if they're in an actual elder scrolls game.

We cannot assume some bosmer are actually ohmes, they're two different races and ohmes have pointy ears. We could make the argument that Ohme have become so interacially breeded that they're no longer distinct, but that's out the window because we're in the 2nd era and they had plenty of ohme in the third.

Really this is a huge oversight by Zenimax. Shamefully untrue the story.

But there're not in actual ESO game yet.

And I can't see how you can be so affirmative. You are just willing to believe there... I suspect you take wikia information for gospel. Let's check the (in-universe) sources of this.
Then...
- So where did you see "they're two different races" ? Have you led some genetic experiment to support the thesis ?
- Well, the ohmes have pointy ears, so according to you the bosmer have not ?
- How could the appearance of many ohmes in the third era invalidate ...their appearance after the second era ?

I was just trying to put the lore in its right order there : to explain the facts, not to divert in some "the actual lore must be that"

Smasherx74 wrote: »

newtinmpls wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

We cannot assume some bosmer are actually ohmes,.

True, but I think were I looking to rp an ohmes, I would be okay using a bosmer 'template'

Idc about roleplay tbh. I care about the plot, and story.

Unless they tell me there was a dragonbreak that caused the existence of all other khajiit forms to be forgotten / disappear then I'm going to be extremely triggered.

"triggered"
That's what I called fan lore
I can understand, since I have fan lore too (about altmer) but we should try and be aware of that

1) The ohme are a different race/breed of Khajiit born under a different lunar phase.

2) Ohme look like bosmer but are not bosmer, they distinct themselves by typically wearing face paint.

3) Not sure what you're trying to say.

I don't think our definition of lore is the same. Fan lore is lore created by the fans. Ohmes were in arena, they were apparently more populated before the third era, and after the fourth century of the third era they aren't seen much outside of elswhere.

That's actual lore, not fan lore.

Smasherx74 · December 2017

notimetocare wrote: »

Wikia iz bad.
The pantheon of possible sub-khajiit have barely, if ever, actually made it into a game

Doesn't mean anything. Most elder scroll games take place after they were common to see outside of elswere.

In fact pre-3rd era they were suppose to be rather common.

ArchMikem · December 2017

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

Most importantly. Ohmes are really just bosmer with fierce face and body tattoo's. It must be easy to replace a few khajiit with these tattoo'd bosmer (don't change their accented dialogue).

Accents are Cultural. There's a Khajiit in Wrothgar who was raised by an Orc Tribe when he was just a kitten, and when you talk to him, he sounds like a really rugged Breton. Point is, if these Mer like Khajiit were raised within the boundaries of Elsweyr, they too would speak as other Khajiit, "This One"s and all. So it wouldn't be right to just retexture a Bosmer and keep their Bosmer voice actor accents.

Jim_Pipp · December 2017

ArchMikem wrote: »

Jim_Pipp wrote: »

Most importantly. Ohmes are really just bosmer with fierce face and body tattoo's. It must be easy to replace a few khajiit with these tattoo'd bosmer (don't change their accented dialogue).

Accents are Cultural. There's a Khajiit in Wrothgar who was raised by an Orc Tribe when he was just a kitten, and when you talk to him, he sounds like a really rugged Breton. Point is, if these Mer like Khajiit were raised within the boundaries of Elsweyr, they too would speak as other Khajiit, "This One"s and all. So it wouldn't be right to just retexture a Bosmer and keep their Bosmer voice actor accents.

Sorry I wasn't clear, I want the ohmes to sound like khajiit. I am suggesting a few of the current Khajiit NPC's get changed into Ohmes but keep their current khajiit dialogue and accent.

I think it would be easy and effective to do this by using bosmer models but with cat-marking tattoo's. The existing khajiit body markings may even be usable, so it is a really low-effort way to add the appearance of another sub-race to a world that is meant to be vast and varied. Selling the Ohmes tatoos in the Crown store would give roleplayers a whole new race to play with.

Ajaxandriel · December 2017

Smasherx74 wrote: »

1) The ohme are a different race/breed of Khajiit born under a different lunar phase.

2) Ohme look like bosmer but are not bosmer, they distinct themselves by typically wearing face paint.

3) Not sure what you're trying to say.

I don't think our definition of lore is the same. Fan lore is lore created by the fans. Ohmes were in arena, they were apparently more populated before the third era, and after the fourth century of the third era they aren't seen much outside of elswhere.

That's actual lore, not fan lore.

Okay, you haven't got the point, I'll write it otherwise:
1) Source?
2) Source?
3) Just saying And I can't see how you can be so affirmative. You are just willing to believe there... I suspect you take wikia information for gospel. Let's check the (in-universe) sources of this.

nevermind, notimetocare and Danikat have answered already

EDIT:
I suspect ZOS to have at least some plans for the so-called khajiit furstocks / morphs. Maybe not exactly the "established" (fanbase) lore though but that would be interesting anyway.
I've seen at least one entry of the word "Tojay" from the NPC in MoL raid, where she seems to refer to as a stage of the moons as she's telling she will come back to Elsweyr warm coast to rest, then
(not sure of the original text, as long as I play in french client) soon she'll swim into warm seas and sing the kha'jay sahaalas under the "moons of Tojay". Maybe a hint on the Tojay and Tojay-raht forms

Then there are Legend illustrations too (maybe not gospel icons either, but I like the realistic way it goes)

FrancisCrawford · December 2017

There was too much resistance to them.

zaria · December 2017

Ratzkifal wrote: »

They really haven't done justice to the Khajiiti diversity and lore in any game so far. The mane has hair reaching all the way to the ground if taken literally, and
there can only be one mane alive at a time, meaning that what we see in the dominion quest line is in direct conflict with the lore. After all, who is born a mane gets determined by the moon at birth so a ritual can't fix that retroactively.

Like with so many other things, ESO bent the lore to make it work as a game. Adding more Khajiiti subspecies is a lot of effort for little reward. It would be difficult to do them justice without overrepresenting Khajiit in the game, specifically the Dominion quests. Perhaps with a future expansion this can be fixed, which is why I am glad Elswyer was not included in the original Alliance zones (apart from Reaper's March and Khenarti's roost).

Don't see the issue with the Mane, it can just be one Mane as its an unique title like king or president in a country.
its one requirement, that you are born under an special and rare star sign, this makes you an mane candidate just as being children of an king make you an heir to the throne. The hair is actually hair from other Khajiit in tribe, that would be an bit unpractical with all the Khajiit in tamriel so its symbolic nowday.

Now all the wild sence around make less sense. Some places like on Khenarti's roost and some delves in Reaper's March you have sence together with other Khajiit All the places they are used for general predators does not.

Yes, more Khajiit types would be fun, Ohmes-raht would be an fun one and easy to make.

OtarTheMad · December 2017

Ajaxandriel wrote: »

Smasherx74 wrote: »

1) The ohme are a different race/breed of Khajiit born under a different lunar phase.

2) Ohme look like bosmer but are not bosmer, they distinct themselves by typically wearing face paint.

3) Not sure what you're trying to say.

I don't think our definition of lore is the same. Fan lore is lore created by the fans. Ohmes were in arena, they were apparently more populated before the third era, and after the fourth century of the third era they aren't seen much outside of elswhere.

That's actual lore, not fan lore.

Okay, you haven't got the point, I'll write it otherwise:
1) Source?
2) Source?
3) Just saying And I can't see how you can be so affirmative. You are just willing to believe there... I suspect you take wikia information for gospel. Let's check the (in-universe) sources of this.

nevermind, notimetocare and Danikat have answered already

EDIT:
I suspect ZOS to have at least some plans for the so-called khajiit furstocks / morphs. Maybe not exactly the "established" (fanbase) lore though but that would be interesting anyway.
I've seen at least one entry of the word "Tojay" from the NPC in MoL raid, where she seems to refer to as a stage of the moons as she's telling she will come back to Elsweyr warm coast to rest, then
(not sure of the original text, as long as I play in french client) soon she'll swim into warm seas and sing the kha'jay sahaalas under the "moons of Tojay". Maybe a hint on the Tojay and Tojay-raht forms

Then there are Legend illustrations too (maybe not gospel icons either, but I like the realistic way it goes)

en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Khajiit

Look under Morphology.

Ajaxandriel · December 2017

Don't pretend you misunderstood my point OtarTheMad

Wikias are basically sites where in-universe folklore is displayed, nothing less nothing more.

In this case the sources are mainly Imperial (PGE). Here is an in-game source (from altmer bias) http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Moon_Worship_among_the_Cat-Men
There's hardly any reference about khajiit furstocks in the actual game yet.

Korah_Eaglecry · December 2017

Smasherx74 wrote: »

"The Ohmes is the most Mer-like Khajiit. They are shorter than a Bosmer and have similar pointed ears. Unlike other Khajiit they have no fur, no tail, and no naturally occurring distinguishable Khajiit feature. To distinguish themselves from Mer, the Ohmes usually paint their faces with 'catlike' war paint.

The Ohmes were a common sight across Tamriel before the end of the 4th century of the 3rd Era. After this time period, they became a rare sight outside of Elsweyr" - From elder scrolls wikia.

Bethesda why are there no Ohmes? They're suppose to be common during the pre-4th century of 3rd era. Will ohmes become a playable race or will there be lore introduced to explain why we've never seen a single one?

Im actually curious how ESO is going to handle going deeper into Elyswyr. As there would need to be an explanation why we have not seen the various Khajiit-folk that we have been told through lore exist, and explains the varied appearances of Khajiit over time. Yet has not been seen through out the Aldmeri Dominion or the part of Elyswyr we have access to right now.

I personally think Bethesda would of faired better in all of this if they never addressed the differences in Khajiit appearances and treated it as them simply improving the cat-folks appearance through improved graphics.

WhiteCoatSyndrome · December 2017

@Korah_Eaglecry This doesn't really solve the problem for ESO, but we have seen multiple furstocks in one place in the Keyes books (naturally, where no one had to make a model for any of them). One of the minor characters is an Ohmes and she introduces some of the other variants (including one of the mounts) as relatives.

ZOS_Mika · December 2017

We have recently removed a couple of combative posts from this thread, so please keep this discussion civil and respectful. Thank you for your understanding.

Darios_Heliodromos · September 2019

Will the Ohmes and Ohmes rahts make an appearance in Dragonhold?

Are there any other Khajiiti furstocks that were missing from Elsweyr? I remember seeing many different breeds there.