PTS Update 16 - Feedback Thread for Dragonknights

lucky_Sage · September 2017

casparian wrote: »

Some stamina Dragonknight PVP perspective:

For the past four months, the burning question whenever I play my stamDK (my first character, and still one of my favorite classes to play) has been: why not be a stamina Warden? Stamina Wardens possess virtually every tool in the stamDK kit, except with cheaper and more convenient access. Here's what I mean:

- Projectile defense: DKs have a 4-second defense (Reflective Scale) that can either reflect spells or grant a somewhat rare resistance buff, depending on morph. It costs 3780 magicka. Wardens have a 6-second or 3-projectile (whicever comes first) projectile defense that can grant Major Heroism and costs 2432 magicka. More importantly, it restores magicka on hit, paying for over half of its own cost. Why does a DK's reflect skill cost so much more than a Warden's? True, Reflective Scale has a benefit that Shimmering Shield doesn't (a truly damaging reflect), but it doesn't grant Major Heroism either. Face it, Reflective Scale is the same basic effect as Shimmering Shield but with equal or lesser utility at much greater cost. Why the greater cost? Solution: reduce Reflective Scale's cost by ~1K magicka.
- Major Mending: Now that my stamplar doesn't have Major Mending, it feels really good to be able to pop Igneous Shield and suddenly have an extremely potent Rally heal, especially since I usually run medium armor. The problem is that Igneous Shield is very expensive: 4050 magicka for a stamina DK is over 1/3 of my magicka pool. (Its great expense means it's difficult for this buff to be available at all when I need it most: in the midst of a long, drawn out fight when I'm hurting for resources.) There's an argument to be made that it should remain expensive, since it activates three powerful passive effects in addition to Major Mending. But the problem is that as a stamina DK, it's impossible to forget that a stamina Warden gets Major Mending attached to any heal at all times when they need it most, at no extra cost. It's great that Warden has such a strong passive, but it wildly outclasses DKs' access to Major Mending: I have to pay (a) a bar slot (b) a GCD (c) over 1/3 of my magicka pool in order to have a buff that Warden gets simply for using a heal when they need it most. Do the added benefits provided by the Earthen Heart passives really justify having to pay so much more for this buff than Warden does? Solution: reduce the cost of Igneous Shield.
- Major Expedition: Stamina Wardens get this buff (coupled with Minor Berserk!) whenever they want it, as long as they have the magicka for it. Stamina DKs get this only in situations when they are willing to gap close to an opponent (with Empowering Chains). Given that Major Expedition is most useful for stamina builds in PVP as an escape tool, this is a very awkward design from a stamDK perspective. If I'm using medium armor a bow in PVP, this isn't such a big deal, but many stamDKs use heavy armor and no bow (just like stamWards). StamWards aren't pigeon-holed into a single build and playstyle in order to gain non-awkward access to this buff.
- [Major Fracture]: StamDKs have this debuff attached to a very small DOT. StamWards have this debuff attached to enormous burst damage. Solution: buff the damage of Noxious Breath.
- Major Defile: DKs have Standard, which has the potential to be a strong skill in PVP: for 250 ultimate, we get a PBAOE that applies Major Defile. The problem is that, on PTS, this comes at the cost of disabling DKs' main sustain and survival tool (ult regen) for 25 seconds -- an eternity in PVP. No self buff or enemy debuff could possibly be worth disabling ult gain on a DK in PVP. It's especially tough to think about using this skill as a stam DK, since I know that if I just played my stam Warden, I could have an AOE Major Defile for paying only 3240 magicka instead of 250 ultimate, and without disabling my ult regen. Solution: allow ult regen while Shifting Standard is up. (Would this be strong? Yes. But it wouldn't be overpowered, as there will always be a viable defense against Standard: CC the DK and stay mobile. Besides, there's nothing wrong with enabling a strong counter to the current heal-and-block-and-block-and-heal meta.)
- Major Resolve and Major Ward: This is the one place where I think stamDKs come out ahead of stamwards. StamDKs get these buffs for significantly less cost than stamwards, and while we don't get Minor Protection with it the way stamwards do, we do get +12% healing received. I'm very happy with the balance of Spiked Armor vs. Frost Cloak -- this should be a model for how stamDKs' and stamwards' other analogous skills should be balanced against one another.
- Self-healing: StamDKs get Green Dragon Blood: a capped heal that grants two Major buffs I already have from my tri-pots, as well as Minor Vitality. The Vitality would be nice, except that I can't afford to cast GDB because it's so expensive and I already spent all my magicka on Igneous Shield and Reflective Scales. Stamwards get Soothing Spores, the most powerful stamina-based class self-heal in the game, which does not consume their precious magicka pool (on the contrary, it replenishes it) and which can also heal allies. GDB is just not worth comparing to Spores in any way. Solution: make GDB work similarly to its magicka morph, Coagulating Blood: have it scale off max stamina and spell damage, instead of being capped at 33% of missing health. Get rid of Major Endurance and Fortitude. Alternative solution: have it stay capped at 33% of missing health (at least this could get me out of execute range), but dramatically reduce its cost.

I don't want stamina DKs and stamina Wardens to be exactly the same, and of course I acknowledge that stamina Wardens should have some advantages that stamina DKs don't have (and vice versa). But what I don't understand is why so many of the great tools in the stamina Warden toolkit are just cheaper, more effective versions of what stamina DKs have. It's high time that stam DK was brought up to the level of stam Warden.
if
TL;DR: Playing as a stamina Warden feels great because I get access to most of the great buffs and advantages that I do as a stamina DK, except as a Warden I get them at a significantly reduced cost and with increased ease of access. As it stands now, stamDK feels like a more expensive stamWard with some different animations slapped on.

that is basically the same for a magdk making a sup sorc has a negate and better root which will help your team better than the dk just rooting and standard
a sup warden has a easy defile debuff a root and healing ult that can be casted every couple seconds
if you are are dd magdk every other mag class would be better more dmg better magicka sustain.
yeah magdk are great at duels better every where else they lack dueling shold matter for balance all dueling is is people watching what you are and changing cp and picking what either stam or magick poison to fight you they are pointless.
dks lack the potential to finish people off with out a execute unless a well timed burst ult which is counter productive since there sustain is tied to ulting but to kill someone you need your ult (even though battle roar sucks)
since dks pressure is dots if there is a Templar in the group your fighting your basisccly spamng whip so your is mostly gone then why flames of oblivion should go back to a aoe

in summery a dk is lacking

Anne_Firehawk · September 2017

Cauterize: Cauterize your wounds, healing yourself for X over Y seconds and removing 2 negative effects.
Would be still inferior to Templar Purge but would actually allow nonVampire DKs.

Glory · September 2017

casparian wrote: »

Some stamina Dragonknight PVP perspective:

For the past four months, the burning question whenever I play my stamDK (my first character, and still one of my favorite classes to play) has been: why not be a stamina Warden? Stamina Wardens possess virtually every tool in the stamDK kit, except with cheaper and more convenient access. Here's what I mean:

- Projectile defense: DKs have a 4-second defense (Reflective Scale) that can either reflect spells or grant a somewhat rare resistance buff, depending on morph. It costs 3780 magicka. Wardens have a 6-second or 3-projectile (whicever comes first) projectile defense that can grant Major Heroism and costs 2432 magicka. More importantly, it restores magicka on hit, paying for over half of its own cost. Why does a DK's reflect skill cost so much more than a Warden's? True, Reflective Scale has a benefit that Shimmering Shield doesn't (a truly damaging reflect), but it doesn't grant Major Heroism either. Face it, Reflective Scale is the same basic effect as Shimmering Shield but with equal or lesser utility at much greater cost. Why the greater cost? Solution: reduce Reflective Scale's cost by ~1K magicka.
- Major Mending: Now that my stamplar doesn't have Major Mending, it feels really good to be able to pop Igneous Shield and suddenly have an extremely potent Rally heal, especially since I usually run medium armor. The problem is that Igneous Shield is very expensive: 4050 magicka for a stamina DK is over 1/3 of my magicka pool. (Its great expense means it's difficult for this buff to be available at all when I need it most: in the midst of a long, drawn out fight when I'm hurting for resources.) There's an argument to be made that it should remain expensive, since it activates three powerful passive effects in addition to Major Mending. But the problem is that as a stamina DK, it's impossible to forget that a stamina Warden gets Major Mending attached to any heal at all times when they need it most, at no extra cost. It's great that Warden has such a strong passive, but it wildly outclasses DKs' access to Major Mending: I have to pay (a) a bar slot (b) a GCD (c) over 1/3 of my magicka pool in order to have a buff that Warden gets simply for using a heal when they need it most. Do the added benefits provided by the Earthen Heart passives really justify having to pay so much more for this buff than Warden does? Solution: reduce the cost of Igneous Shield.
- Major Expedition: Stamina Wardens get this buff (coupled with Minor Berserk!) whenever they want it, as long as they have the magicka for it. Stamina DKs get this only in situations when they are willing to gap close to an opponent (with Empowering Chains). Given that Major Expedition is most useful for stamina builds in PVP as an escape tool, this is a very awkward design from a stamDK perspective. If I'm using medium armor a bow in PVP, this isn't such a big deal, but many stamDKs use heavy armor and no bow (just like stamWards). StamWards aren't pigeon-holed into a single build and playstyle in order to gain non-awkward access to this buff.
- Major Fracture: StamDKs have this debuff attached to a very small DOT. StamWards have this debuff attached to enormous burst damage. Solution: buff the damage of Noxious Breath.
- Major Defile: DKs have Standard, which has the potential to be a strong skill in PVP: for 250 ultimate, we get a PBAOE that applies Major Defile. The problem is that, on PTS, this comes at the cost of disabling DKs' main sustain and survival tool (ult regen) for 25 seconds -- an eternity in PVP. No self buff or enemy debuff could possibly be worth disabling ult gain on a DK in PVP. It's especially tough to think about using this skill as a stam DK, since I know that if I just played my stam Warden, I could have an AOE Major Defile for paying only 3240 magicka instead of 250 ultimate, and without disabling my ult regen. Solution: allow ult regen while Shifting Standard is up. (Would this be strong? Yes. But it wouldn't be overpowered, as there will always be a viable defense against Standard: CC the DK and stay mobile. Besides, there's nothing wrong with enabling a strong counter to the current heal-and-block-and-block-and-heal meta.)
- Major Resolve and Major Ward: This is the one place where I think stamDKs come out ahead of stamwards. StamDKs get these buffs for significantly less cost than stamwards, and while we don't get Minor Protection with it the way stamwards do, we do get +12% healing received. I'm very happy with the balance of Spiked Armor vs. Frost Cloak -- this should be a model for how stamDKs' and stamwards' other analogous skills should be balanced against one another.
- Self-healing: StamDKs get Green Dragon Blood: a capped heal that grants two Major buffs I already have from my tri-pots, as well as Minor Vitality. The Vitality would be nice, except that I can't afford to cast GDB because it's so expensive and I already spent all my magicka on Igneous Shield and Reflective Scales. Stamwards get Soothing Spores, the most powerful stamina-based class self-heal in the game, which does not consume their precious magicka pool (on the contrary, it replenishes it) and which can also heal allies. GDB is just not worth comparing to Spores in any way. Solution: make GDB work similarly to its magicka morph, Coagulating Blood: have it scale off max stamina and weapon damage, instead of being capped at 33% of missing health. Get rid of Major Endurance and Fortitude. Alternative solution: have it stay capped at 33% of missing health (at least this could get me out of execute range), but dramatically reduce its cost.

I don't want stamina DKs and stamina Wardens to be exactly the same, and of course I acknowledge that stamina Wardens should have some advantages that stamina DKs don't have (and vice versa). But what I don't understand is why so many of the great tools in the stamina Warden toolkit are just cheaper, more effective versions of what stamina DKs have. It's high time that stam DK was brought up to the level of stam Warden.

TL;DR: Playing as a stamina Warden feels great because I get access to most of the great buffs and advantages that I do as a stamina DK, except as a Warden I get them at a significantly reduced cost and with increased ease of access. As it stands now, stamDK feels like a more expensive stamWard with some different animations slapped on.

Solid write up. Like a lot of the changes and the justifications behind them.

It really is interesting how magicka and stamina DKs are outclassed in most ways compared to mag/stam warden.

Anti_Virus · September 2017

casparian wrote: »

Some stamina Dragonknight PVP perspective:

For the past four months, the burning question whenever I play my stamDK (my first character, and still one of my favorite classes to play) has been: why not be a stamina Warden? Stamina Wardens possess virtually every tool in the stamDK kit, except with cheaper and more convenient access. Here's what I mean:

- Projectile defense: DKs have a 4-second defense (Reflective Scale) that can either reflect spells or grant a somewhat rare resistance buff, depending on morph. It costs 3780 magicka. Wardens have a 6-second or 3-projectile (whicever comes first) projectile defense that can grant Major Heroism and costs 2432 magicka. More importantly, it restores magicka on hit, paying for over half of its own cost. Why does a DK's reflect skill cost so much more than a Warden's? True, Reflective Scale has a benefit that Shimmering Shield doesn't (a truly damaging reflect), but it doesn't grant Major Heroism either. Face it, Reflective Scale is the same basic effect as Shimmering Shield but with equal or lesser utility at much greater cost. Why the greater cost? Solution: reduce Reflective Scale's cost by ~1K magicka.
- Major Mending: Now that my stamplar doesn't have Major Mending, it feels really good to be able to pop Igneous Shield and suddenly have an extremely potent Rally heal, especially since I usually run medium armor. The problem is that Igneous Shield is very expensive: 4050 magicka for a stamina DK is over 1/3 of my magicka pool. (Its great expense means it's difficult for this buff to be available at all when I need it most: in the midst of a long, drawn out fight when I'm hurting for resources.) There's an argument to be made that it should remain expensive, since it activates three powerful passive effects in addition to Major Mending. But the problem is that as a stamina DK, it's impossible to forget that a stamina Warden gets Major Mending attached to any heal at all times when they need it most, at no extra cost. It's great that Warden has such a strong passive, but it wildly outclasses DKs' access to Major Mending: I have to pay (a) a bar slot (b) a GCD (c) over 1/3 of my magicka pool in order to have a buff that Warden gets simply for using a heal when they need it most. Do the added benefits provided by the Earthen Heart passives really justify having to pay so much more for this buff than Warden does? Solution: reduce the cost of Igneous Shield.
- Major Expedition: Stamina Wardens get this buff (coupled with Minor Berserk!) whenever they want it, as long as they have the magicka for it. Stamina DKs get this only in situations when they are willing to gap close to an opponent (with Empowering Chains). Given that Major Expedition is most useful for stamina builds in PVP as an escape tool, this is a very awkward design from a stamDK perspective. If I'm using medium armor a bow in PVP, this isn't such a big deal, but many stamDKs use heavy armor and no bow (just like stamWards). StamWards aren't pigeon-holed into a single build and playstyle in order to gain non-awkward access to this buff.
- Major Fracture: StamDKs have this debuff attached to a very small DOT. StamWards have this debuff attached to enormous burst damage. Solution: buff the damage of Noxious Breath.
- Major Defile: DKs have Standard, which has the potential to be a strong skill in PVP: for 250 ultimate, we get a PBAOE that applies Major Defile. The problem is that, on PTS, this comes at the cost of disabling DKs' main sustain and survival tool (ult regen) for 25 seconds -- an eternity in PVP. No self buff or enemy debuff could possibly be worth disabling ult gain on a DK in PVP. It's especially tough to think about using this skill as a stam DK, since I know that if I just played my stam Warden, I could have an AOE Major Defile for paying only 3240 magicka instead of 250 ultimate, and without disabling my ult regen. Solution: allow ult regen while Shifting Standard is up. (Would this be strong? Yes. But it wouldn't be overpowered, as there will always be a viable defense against Standard: CC the DK and stay mobile. Besides, there's nothing wrong with enabling a strong counter to the current heal-and-block-and-block-and-heal meta.)
- Major Resolve and Major Ward: This is the one place where I think stamDKs come out ahead of stamwards. StamDKs get these buffs for significantly less cost than stamwards, and while we don't get Minor Protection with it the way stamwards do, we do get +12% healing received. I'm very happy with the balance of Spiked Armor vs. Frost Cloak -- this should be a model for how stamDKs' and stamwards' other analogous skills should be balanced against one another.
- Self-healing: StamDKs get Green Dragon Blood: a capped heal that grants two Major buffs I already have from my tri-pots, as well as Minor Vitality. The Vitality would be nice, except that I can't afford to cast GDB because it's so expensive and I already spent all my magicka on Igneous Shield and Reflective Scales. Stamwards get Soothing Spores, the most powerful stamina-based class self-heal in the game, which does not consume their precious magicka pool (on the contrary, it replenishes it) and which can also heal allies. GDB is just not worth comparing to Spores in any way. Solution: make GDB work similarly to its magicka morph, Coagulating Blood: have it scale off max stamina and weapon damage, instead of being capped at 33% of missing health. Get rid of Major Endurance and Fortitude. Alternative solution: have it stay capped at 33% of missing health (at least this could get me out of execute range), but dramatically reduce its cost.

I don't want stamina DKs and stamina Wardens to be exactly the same, and of course I acknowledge that stamina Wardens should have some advantages that stamina DKs don't have (and vice versa). But what I don't understand is why so many of the great tools in the stamina Warden toolkit are just cheaper, more effective versions of what stamina DKs have. It's high time that stam DK was brought up to the level of stam Warden.

TL;DR: Playing as a stamina Warden feels great because I get access to most of the great buffs and advantages that I do as a stamina DK, except as a Warden I get them at a significantly reduced cost and with increased ease of access. As it stands now, stamDK feels like a more expensive stamWard with some different animations slapped on.

Nice post but the devs don't care they won't even acknowledge your concerns. The archer community has been asking for at least a statement on the state of archery and why they think its in a good( or bad) spot. Nothing but silence and they ignore it. Hence why I left the game.

I come back from time 2 time to see if they improved their communication with the community and nothing really

Wikter_Bravo · September 2017

@casparian

I would said that its a selling point for zenimax, why buff a class when you can bring in a new one which people will pay to play with? A discount DK

lucky_Sage · September 2017

Anne_Firehawk wrote: »

Cauterize: Cauterize your wounds, healing yourself for X over Y seconds and removing 2 negative effects.
Would be still inferior to Templar Purge but would actually allow nonVampire DKs.

dks need vampire to sustain aswell they have to have 20% regen as a crutch

Anne_Firehawk · September 2017

lucky_Sage wrote: »

Anne_Firehawk wrote: »

Cauterize: Cauterize your wounds, healing yourself for X over Y seconds and removing 2 negative effects.
Would be still inferior to Templar Purge but would actually allow nonVampire DKs.

dks need vampire to sustain aswell they have to have 20% regen as a crutch

It's 10% not 20%. Try running light armor impregnable for sustain, or Desert Rose, or both. Something needs to happen to Cauterize, I provided so much Feedback a few pages ago, now its up to ZOS.
@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel

ak_pvp · September 2017

More important IMO:

WTB working wings so don;t have to blockcheese. (Definitely no status efects from reflected projectiles Reflect everything but meteors/bird. Either infinite uptime, limited reflects, or limited uptime, infinite reflects)

Stonefist becomes tectonics, stuns for 1.5s then pulls, no CC immunity unless stun is broken new pull. Chain either a dedicated gapcloser, or utility, because DK needs utility more than a gapclose.

Less important IMO.

InfernAoE. Cauterize tick cleanses 1/2 effects from you and any team inside it every 5s. (I.e. fire disinfects, good idea ay?)

WTB discounts to deep breath and talons pls.

ak_pvp · September 2017

Dupe, ignore.

ZOS_Wrobel · September 2017

We’d like to briefly touch on some feedback we’ve seen for this class. First, we’ve seen some of you mention that Petrify is more appealing than Stonefist since it’s more reliable. To help address this, we’ll be decreasing the melee range for Petrify so it covers a slightly smaller area – this will also make it slightly harder to apply to the enemy to make up for the increased power level of Petrify. We’ve also seen requests to improve some of the unpopular morphs such as Fragmented Shield, Reflective Plate, and Cinder Storm among others; we’ll take a look and see what we can do to improve these in the future.

We also understand many of you would like to see Inferno deal AoE damage. However, we feel Dragonknights have sufficient options with Ash Cloud, Dark Talons, Inhale, and Fiery Breath. Lastly, we’ve seen the feedback that Cauterize ticks too slowly while healing other low-health allies. We’re going to look into this more, but aren’t planning to make any changes at this time.

Thanks for taking the time to post your feedback. We appreciate it, and would love for you to keep the conversation going.

kojou · September 2017

ZOS_Wrobel wrote: »

We’d like to briefly touch on some feedback we’ve seen for this class. First, we’ve seen some of you mention that Petrify is more appealing than Stonefist since it’s more reliable. To help address this, we’ll be decreasing the melee range for Petrify so it covers a slightly smaller area – this will also make it slightly harder to apply to the enemy to make up for the increased power level of Petrify. We’ve also seen requests to improve some of the unpopular morphs such as Fragmented Shield, Reflective Plate, and Cinder Storm among others; we’ll take a look and see what we can do to improve these in the future.

We also understand many of you would like to see Inferno deal AoE damage. However, we feel Dragonknights have sufficient options with Ash Cloud, Dark Talons, Inhale, and Fiery Breath. Lastly, we’ve seen the feedback that Cauterize ticks too slowly while healing other low-health allies. We’re going to look into this more, but aren’t planning to make any changes at this time.

Thanks for taking the time to post your feedback. We appreciate it, and would love for you to keep the conversation going.

So because Stonefist is not a particularly effective skill you are going to nerf Petrify to make Stonefist look better? I don't think that is exactly what we were asking for...

Anne_Firehawk · September 2017

ztyhurstub17_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_Wrobel wrote: »

We’d like to briefly touch on some feedback we’ve seen for this class. First, we’ve seen some of you mention that Petrify is more appealing than Stonefist since it’s more reliable. To help address this, we’ll be decreasing the melee range for Petrify so it covers a slightly smaller area – this will also make it slightly harder to apply to the enemy to make up for the increased power level of Petrify. We’ve also seen requests to improve some of the unpopular morphs such as Fragmented Shield, Reflective Plate, and Cinder Storm among others; we’ll take a look and see what we can do to improve these in the future.

We also understand many of you would like to see Inferno deal AoE damage. However, we feel Dragonknights have sufficient options with Ash Cloud, Dark Talons, Inhale, and Fiery Breath. Lastly, we’ve seen the feedback that Cauterize ticks too slowly while healing other low-health allies. We’re going to look into this more, but aren’t planning to make any changes at this time.

Thanks for taking the time to post your feedback. We appreciate it, and would love for you to keep the conversation going.

So because Stonefist is not a particularly effective skill you are going to nerf Petrify to make Stonefist look better? I don't think that is exactly what we were asking for...

I agree with that, just make stonefist unique and more appealing on its own!

Anti_Virus · September 2017

ZOS_Wrobel wrote: »

We’d like to briefly touch on some feedback we’ve seen for this class. First, we’ve seen some of you mention that Petrify is more appealing than Stonefist since it’s more reliable. To help address this, we’ll be decreasing the melee range for Petrify so it covers a slightly smaller area – this will also make it slightly harder to apply to the enemy to make up for the increased power level of Petrify. We’ve also seen requests to improve some of the unpopular morphs such as Fragmented Shield, Reflective Plate, and Cinder Storm among others; we’ll take a look and see what we can do to improve these in the future.

We also understand many of you would like to see Inferno deal AoE damage. However, we feel Dragonknights have sufficient options with Ash Cloud, Dark Talons, Inhale, and Fiery Breath. Lastly, we’ve seen the feedback that Cauterize ticks too slowly while healing other low-health allies. We’re going to look into this more, but aren’t planning to make any changes at this time.

Thanks for taking the time to post your feedback. We appreciate it, and would love for you to keep the conversation going.

And a wild Wrobel appears, wow a lot of stuff thanks for the comment. Glad you addressed the AoE inferno and if you think about it you have a good point. I guess it would be better to just slightly improve other DK AoEs.

Lastly if you have time what are you thoughts on a mobile DK standard that was suggested in the thread(attached to your back) would it be too powerful? I think it's a great idea if the ultimate will cost 250 and another class has a PBAoE (Warden).

Robby94 · September 2017

while we're keeping the conversation going, any chance of a class execute? jk i know its not gonna happen but couldn't resist. would it be possible to have spiked armor or hardened armor give allies minor resolve/ward?

reiverx · September 2017

Conclusion:

Making suggestions in a feedback thread is bad for your class.

NBrookus · September 2017

ZOS_Wrobel wrote: »

We’d like to briefly touch on some feedback we’ve seen for this class. First, we’ve seen some of you mention that Petrify is more appealing than Stonefist since it’s more reliable. To help address this, we’ll be decreasing the melee range for Petrify so it covers a slightly smaller area – this will also make it slightly harder to apply to the enemy to make up for the increased power level of Petrify. We’ve also seen requests to improve some of the unpopular morphs such as Fragmented Shield, Reflective Plate, and Cinder Storm among others; we’ll take a look and see what we can do to improve these in the future.

We also understand many of you would like to see Inferno deal AoE damage. However, we feel Dragonknights have sufficient options with Ash Cloud, Dark Talons, Inhale, and Fiery Breath. Lastly, we’ve seen the feedback that Cauterize ticks too slowly while healing other low-health allies. We’re going to look into this more, but aren’t planning to make any changes at this time.

Thanks for taking the time to post your feedback. We appreciate it, and would love for you to keep the conversation going.

Thanks for popping in, but if you take a skill that already has a limited range (15m) and drop it lower on a class with NO mobility, you are making Petrify useless. At 15m, I could Petrify an enemy and catch up to them while they CC break to apply my 8m whip or 6m talons or 5m burning embers. If Petrify has something like a 12m or less range every class can easily kite mDK even more than they can now.

This far overrides the otherwise nice buff it was getting. In all respects the new Rune Prison is superior to Fossilize; this will make the discrepancy even larger.

P.S. Don't say empowering chains. A skill that maybe works half the time is not something you can use under pressure.

Kilandros · September 2017

ZOS_Wrobel wrote: »

We’d like to briefly touch on some feedback we’ve seen for this class. First, we’ve seen some of you mention that Petrify is more appealing than Stonefist since it’s more reliable. To help address this, we’ll be decreasing the melee range for Petrify so it covers a slightly smaller area – this will also make it slightly harder to apply to the enemy to make up for the increased power level of Petrify. We’ve also seen requests to improve some of the unpopular morphs such as Fragmented Shield, Reflective Plate, and Cinder Storm among others; we’ll take a look and see what we can do to improve these in the future.

We also understand many of you would like to see Inferno deal AoE damage. However, we feel Dragonknights have sufficient options with Ash Cloud, Dark Talons, Inhale, and Fiery Breath. Lastly, we’ve seen the feedback that Cauterize ticks too slowly while healing other low-health allies. We’re going to look into this more, but aren’t planning to make any changes at this time.

Thanks for taking the time to post your feedback. We appreciate it, and would love for you to keep the conversation going.

Definitely not what we wanted to hear, but thanks so much for the response. I hear you with regard to Inferno being an AoE (though I disagree), but if that's truly off the table then would you consider completely changing the ability?

lucky_Sage · September 2017

ZOS_Wrobel wrote: »

We’d like to briefly touch on some feedback we’ve seen for this class. First, we’ve seen some of you mention that Petrify is more appealing than Stonefist since it’s more reliable. To help address this, we’ll be decreasing the melee range for Petrify so it covers a slightly smaller area – this will also make it slightly harder to apply to the enemy to make up for the increased power level of Petrify. We’ve also seen requests to improve some of the unpopular morphs such as Fragmented Shield, Reflective Plate, and Cinder Storm among others; we’ll take a look and see what we can do to improve these in the future.

We also understand many of you would like to see Inferno deal AoE damage. However, we feel Dragonknights have sufficient options with Ash Cloud, Dark Talons, Inhale, and Fiery Breath. Lastly, we’ve seen the feedback that Cauterize ticks too slowly while healing other low-health allies. We’re going to look into this more, but aren’t planning to make any changes at this time.

Thanks for taking the time to post your feedback. We appreciate it, and would love for you to keep the conversation going.

@ZOS_Wrobel

I am glad we got a response but making petrify a melee will make it very hard for a dk to keep up with sorcs and nightblades who are fast and get away dks don't have a effective closer to help. stone fist will most likely be dodge by all stam classes and blocked by all the tanks in pvp now

but what do you have to say about how magdk a sustain class that has the worst sustain and forced to go vampire as a crutch and cant use ult to sustain if the want hopes to kill someone since no execute( I know in pve dks has all them dots but in pvp they lose them because there is always a Templar) even if we did battle roar sucks now

I play a dw magdk if you make it where we can actually out sustain classes and don't get gimped if I don't go a purma blocking build or a vampire

ash cloud wont work they just walk out in pvp so as aoe doesn't help fiery breathe is a cone that is hard to hit, if lucky 2 or 3 people mostly just 1 get hit
also look it to the useless elder dragon passive 5% health recovery for each ability slotted is crap nbs get 15% health magicka and stam for nothing slotted, sorcs get cost reduction nothing sloted and get more recovery for only one thing sloted

ak_pvp · September 2017

ZOS_Wrobel wrote: »

We’d like to briefly touch on some feedback we’ve seen for this class. First, we’ve seen some of you mention that Petrify is more appealing than Stonefist since it’s more reliable. To help address this, we’ll be decreasing the melee range for Petrify so it covers a slightly smaller area – this will also make it slightly harder to apply to the enemy to make up for the increased power level of Petrify. We’ve also seen requests to improve some of the unpopular morphs such as Fragmented Shield, Reflective Plate, and Cinder Storm among others; we’ll take a look and see what we can do to improve these in the future.

We also understand many of you would like to see Inferno deal AoE damage. However, we feel Dragonknights have sufficient options with Ash Cloud, Dark Talons, Inhale, and Fiery Breath. Lastly, we’ve seen the feedback that Cauterize ticks too slowly while healing other low-health allies. We’re going to look into this more, but aren’t planning to make any changes at this time.

Thanks for taking the time to post your feedback. We appreciate it, and would love for you to keep the conversation going.

It truly is a sorcs world isn't it. They get a cheaper long range version of our stun. We get nerfed. How exactly are we meant to deal with ranged guys with 0 mobility or ability to lock them down.

"We also understand many of you would like to see Inferno deal AoE damage. However, we feel Dragonknights have sufficient options with Ash Cloud, Dark Talons, Inhale, and Fiery Breath."

Ash cloud is tiny and useless in most scenarios. Talons is solid. Inhale is super expensive. and firey breath isn't even an AoE with a really slim margin. Maybe if you make it stay infront of us for the duration the fire is out, so we can move and affect more enemies. Take sorc. They have boundless, crystal frags (not great, but an example) familiar, prison, mines, lightning splash, bolt, and fury. Come on man?

The issue with DK damage is: No execute means no payoff for that pressure, Low burst, low damage via dots, AND dots can be purged, if inferno moves with us, then we can get useful aoes.

Have you seen the state of reflect. It still takes status effects from reflected projectiles, many ignore it, it still bugs out sometimes, and it has 2 limitations to its duration, all that amazingness for 3.5k... Solid. Cough cough shimmering shield?

"Cauterize ticks too slowly while healing other low-health allies." Or that its only a single target? Waiting for an ST heal is awful. Maybe a spring/volcano you can put down that bursts heals to 6 people within a 28m radius every 2/3s. Much better yeah?

This is the most laughable excuse for a response I have ever seen. "I see you have issues, I am not fixing them. Oh, and you get a nerf."

Ahahahaa.

Toc de Malsvi · September 2017

reiverx wrote: »

Conclusion:

Making suggestions in a feedback thread is bad for your class.

Exactly, basically just pray that Wrobel in his almightyness decides to bless your class with power. Or re-roll Sorc.

CyrusArya · September 2017

ak_pvp wrote: »

It truly is a sorcs world isn't it.

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Exactly, basically just pray that Wrobel in his almightyness decides to bless your class with power. Or re-roll Sorc.

The hallmark sorc damage ability just got gutted, making the class far less lucrative in both 1vX and 1v1 situations. But as I have known all along, sorc hate isn't rooted in knowledge or logic, its a vandetta.

No matter what changes, the people who get rekt by sorcs will continue to complain.

Joy_Division · September 2017

TY for dropping by and letting us know what ZoS is thinking.

Nobody wants a skill they used to be nerfed in order to make a skill they don't use more appealing.

Stonefist needs to entirely reworked because it doesn't really have a place. If I want a stun, I am going to use petrify (short range) or I am going to use Stone Giant (long range) because it will hit hard if it stuns someone.

I understand the reasoning why Inferno is single target. If that can't change, can we at least have it do something more exciting than replicate a buff that comes from a better skill?

Toc de Malsvi · September 2017

CyrusArya wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

It truly is a sorcs world isn't it.

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Exactly, basically just pray that Wrobel in his almightyness decides to bless your class with power. Or re-roll Sorc.

The hallmark sorc damage ability just got gutted, making the class far less lucrative in both 1vX and 1v1 situations. But as I have known all along, sorc hate isn't rooted in knowledge or logic, its a vandetta.

No matter what changes, the people who get rekt by sorcs will continue to complain.

Your losing the stun.... whoopdy freakin do. Half of the Sorcs on here will tell you how it never lands and is useless.

ak_pvp · September 2017

CyrusArya wrote: »

ak_pvp wrote: »

It truly is a sorcs world isn't it.

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Exactly, basically just pray that Wrobel in his almightyness decides to bless your class with power. Or re-roll Sorc.

The hallmark sorc damage ability just got gutted, making the class far less lucrative in both 1vX and 1v1 situations. But as I have known all along, sorc hate isn't rooted in knowledge or logic, its a vandetta.

No matter what changes, the people who get rekt by sorcs will continue to complain.

The ability lost a stun. A stun that many sorcs I have seen says isn't great because of block, that its main use is damag. Now you have a high ranged, undodgable stun. DK got...? A nerf. YAY. Shifting was reworked, but cuts of ult for 25 s and costs 250, nerf.

Do I think it was needed. NOOOOOO. Bad idea, its just a needless nerf, but not a big one.

Summary: Sorcs: Big CC buff+small CC nerf. DK: Small cc buff (Already unblockable, takes damage and multitarget) Big range nerf. (Range very important because no mobility) Weak ult nerf.

Rohamad_Ali · September 2017

Cutting off someone's arms so they appricate their feet is a strange approach .

Aerem · September 2017

Anddddddddd 1 step forward 3-4 steps back

Glory · September 2017

I'm so done.

Why ask for feedback? We provide points on how a skill is useless, redundant, and could use a rework, you nerf something that actually feels decent in the game.

Looking through the dev responses, it seems like that happened to every feedback thread. What's the point of asking your community if something feels good, if you're not going to adjust the real issues we're noticing?

Anti_Virus · September 2017

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Cutting off someone's arms so they appricate their feet is a strange approach .

10/10.

Anti_Virus · September 2017

Whelp not what I wanted to hear but we got a response and specifically from Wrobel, and finally addressed the AoE inferno suggestion now we can talk about other ideas.

Before you get mad just focus on less popular skills and feedback for how to improve those.

kookster · September 2017

Since wardens have a spammable AOE major defile, standard is pretty much pointless. The synergy is also a joke. If you made it shackle from the very beginning this ult would be a bit better, but still way too expensive.