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DK Changes... Seriously?

  • olsborg
    olsborg
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    MaxwellC wrote: »
    @olsborg Yet again this doesn't call for a nerf to helping hands mate. You cannot tell me that a 4.4k-4.5k igneous shield that gives 5% of your max stamina and at 40k that is 2k stamina is something so insane when you are using skills that are costing that amount if not more and further more yeah I play PvP and I'm not sure what you're rank is but I'm a Legate Grade 2 almost Gen so I've played a lot of PvP (might I add entirely solo unless I'm emperor). I'm a Redguard Stam DK so I do not understand or I cannot comprehend how you think this nerf is needed or in any shape or form fair.
    0lgRpEx.png

    Agree to disagree, the helping hands and redguard nerfs are imo understandable, and I play a redguard.

    PC EU
    PvP only
  • MaxwellC
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    @olsborg
    Yeah as a person who has played DragonKnight and only that class and who has it listed in his Sig I'll definitely disagree with this claim because I find it rather absurd and misplaced. I've been playing DK since craglorn came out on PC and only that class lol..
    不動の Steadfast - Unwavering
    XBL Gamer Tag - Maxwell
    XB1 Maxwell Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Redguard Stamina DK
    XB1 Max Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Brenton Magicka DK
    PC Maxwell-Crystal - NA DC - CP 200+ Brenton Magicka DK 「Retired」
    Band Camp statements: To state "But this one time I saw X doing X... so that justifies X" Refers to the Band camp statement.
    Coined by Maxwel
    l
  • olsborg
    olsborg
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    MaxwellC wrote: »
    @olsborg
    Yeah as a person who has played DragonKnight and only that class and who has it listed in his Sig I'll definitely disagree with this claim because I find it rather absurd and misplaced. I've been playing DK since craglorn came out on PC and only that class lol..

    But for what its worth I do find stamdks nerfed too harshly in the 3.0 patch.

    PC EU
    PvP only
  • FoulSnowpaw
    FoulSnowpaw
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    MaxwellC wrote: »
    @Zarkeson
    Patched lol Please buddy this wasn't even involving the DK in the first place rather the armor leeching. It's been patched the leeching plate B.S especially since the nerf to proc sets so yet again Try again with the "That one time at band camp"

    You do realize there are ALOT of other tanking sets. You just need to know how to play. That video March 1st 2017. FYI the team has already done its own tests and is good. Go out more and see more other DK instead of yourself. DK win in pvp a lot. Excell in pve.
    You gotta invest in gear, get the stats, recovery, and abilities right. Timing is crucial. Get your gaming straight. Choose your role and stick to it. It's not about the class it's you.

    Oke peace.
  • Banana
    Banana
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    Doesnt Wrobel play a sorcerer so these changes are unsurprising. Maybe we'll get a class change
  • SydneyGrey
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    MaxwellC wrote: »
    Lava whip: Doesn't need a reduction, it's fine where it is and I play both versions of this class and yet again you have yet to address the soft CC issue ...
    The reason for the cost reduction is because they're destroying the Champion Point line the Magician, which reduces spell costs. It's gone. It's going to mess up my build badly.

  • Asgari
    Asgari
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    Too much was changed at once for DK. No passive regen or reduced cost and now another battle roar nerf on top of healing nerfs.

    RIP Ariana Kishi
    Formerly @Persian_Princess .. Now @Asgari
    Princess Asgari | Sorc
    Asgari | NB
    -Asgari | Stamplar
    Ariana Kishi | DK | True Liberator of Haderus
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    No Mercy
    Youtube: Asgari
  • LiquidPony
    LiquidPony
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    Zarkeson wrote: »
    Consider the Following:
    • Dragon Knights are more leaned as tanks. DPS should not be their go.
    • The ARE "unkillable" DKs out there. Twenty people hitting a DK that never runs out of stamina or magicka; infinite block. Health never goes down until there are at least thirty people.
    • A lot of DKs spam igneous shield infinitely, making them deathless.
    • Helping hands give DKs extra blocking fuel + ultimate attribute refund = infinite block, health.
    I honestly have to agree with the Zen Team's nerfs to DK. Good job team.

    I love the absolutely one-sided feedback people throw around here. This is how we got where we are. It'd be nice if people took a moment to consider all of the content types in the game before advocating for buffs/nerfs or providing feedback to ZOS.

    This whole patch looks like hot garbage for PvE end-game players.
  • olsborg
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    Too much was changed at once for DK. No passive regen or reduced cost and now another battle roar nerf on top of healing nerfs.

    RIP Ariana Kishi

    Well its still early in the pts cycle. Much can happen.

    Durham wrote: »
    olsborg wrote: »
    MaxwellC wrote: »
    @olsborg Yet again this doesn't call for a nerf to helping hands mate. You cannot tell me that a 4.4k-4.5k igneous shield that gives 5% of your max stamina and at 40k that is 2k stamina is something so insane when you are using skills that are costing that amount if not more and further more yeah I play PvP and I'm not sure what you're rank is but I'm a Legate Grade 2 almost Gen so I've played a lot of PvP (might I add entirely solo unless I'm emperor). I'm a Redguard Stam DK so I do not understand or I cannot comprehend how you think this nerf is needed or in any shape or form fair.
    0lgRpEx.png

    Agree to disagree, the helping hands and redguard nerfs are imo understandable, and I play a redguard.

    Nothing to agree to disagree it's math...

    I agree to disagree to you, its not like you can make me do otherwise :wink:


    PC EU
    PvP only
  • Carbonised
    Carbonised
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    Nerf to Battle Roar.

    Nerf to Helping Hands.

    Nerf to Igneous Shields to the point of it not being worth slotting, at least not for PvP. A tiny shield for 6 seconds, where the sole benefit - that of mending - being lost when someone light attacks you and the shield vanishes. Wasted magicka.

    Nerf to blocking - which is a core surviability especially in PvP for DKs but also for DK tanks.

    And that on a MagDK class that was already infamous for its bad sustain on live server.

    Meanwhile - magsorc who pulls better DPS than DKs from range instead of melee, who has better survivability in PvE and especially in PvP - gets untouched.

    Talk about immortal permablocking DKs, what about permashielding permastreaking Dark Exchange Sorcs who can spec for maximum damage in light armor - since all their survivability comes from their primary stat?
    Edited by Carbonised on April 18, 2017 8:32AM
  • FloppyTouch
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    When you have people like fengrush going to ZoS hq to help with balance this is want you get no nerf to Stam sorc but huge nerfs to any class they had issues fighting.

    I'm very upset myself I'm just going to farm now. Already cancel my pre order like ZoS even cares but it's the best I can do.

    This hurts Stam dk a lot but also mdk too is a huge nerf to dk in general.
    Edited by FloppyTouch on April 18, 2017 9:56AM
  • Bashev
    Bashev
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    I have the felling that the biggest nerf is for the Sorcs and ZoS just didnt let us know because it will be something really big. They are just waiting for the community to start shouting "Nerf Sorcs!" and then they will give us the changes for the Sorcs. Otherwise I cannot understand the logic, nerfing the other 3 classes without touching Sorcs.
    Because I can!
  • Valencer
    Valencer
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    Stamina sorcerers arguably have better sustain already now and dark deal wasnt touched. Makes no sense to me.

    Redguard heavy armour stamina dragonknights before and after this update will be a world of difference. :D
    Edited by Valencer on April 18, 2017 10:55AM
  • OrphanHelgen
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    The sad part is, warden have major mending as a pure passive. But ye, ign shield and vigor too OP
    PC, EU server, Ebonheart Pact


    Finally a reason not to play League of Legends
  • ZOS_JohanaB
    ZOS_JohanaB
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    A few comments were removed from the thread for a bit of back and forth. Please read over the community rules to assure that you are following them in the future as bait and rude comments are not permitted. As this conversation continues we ask that you please only add constructive input.
    Staff Post
  • venomsky
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    The sad part is, warden have major mending as a pure passive. But ye, ign shield and vigor too OP

    if zos not gonna nerf stam dks,temps,and nbs who will buy morrowind??
  • Sigma957
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    When you have people like fengrush going to ZoS hq to help with balance this is want you get no nerf to Stam sorc but huge nerfs to any class they had issues fighting.

    I'm very upset myself I'm just going to farm now. Already cancel my pre order like ZoS even cares but it's the best I can do.

    This hurts Stam dk a lot but also mdk too is a huge nerf to dk in general.

    You know these changes if they stay like this will be on the base game and not just those that get Morrowind ;)
  • Izaki
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    olsborg wrote: »
    MaxwellC wrote: »
    @olsborg
    Yeah we have minor mending via dragon's blood then again you're missing it. You're stating the minor mending so you expect every DK to slot dragon's blood then combine that with igneous shield which would top around 8k magicka. Stam DKs aren't going to destroy their resource pool just like that especially in PvP and PvE.

    How in the world is helping hands over performing even at 50k stamina which would come out to 2,500 stamina at the cost of 4.4k-4.5k magicka at that point you'd get back 5k when you spend nearly 10k magicka. Even with that you would need to sacrifice a lot and gear it to that hulking set that provides max stamina so yet again it's impossible that it's over performing as you stated.

    I might agree that isolated on its own, helping hands is only strong, not overpeforming, but put into a minmax build with a heavy armor stamdk who's also a redguard you could play a noregen build but still end up with better sustain then a medium armor regen build with 2500 stamregen. This is why ZOS nerfs the resource returns from passives, sure they might have overdone it, as usual, but some kindof nerf was needed.

    Yet a stamsorc who can build completely on damage remains untouched. Also, since when do we dedicate nerfs and buffs based on min/max builds?

    So why not add in min/max sorc whose loaded up to 50k magicka; why are his shields not nerfed? Something needs to be done about that but clearly its over looked and changes are made on classes and skills that are perfectly balanced.

    The problem wasn't the DK passives it was idiotic sets like Hulking Draugr and necropotence for magicka counterparts etc.

    Quit nerfing classes when the real problem is broken gear addition.

    You think? Heavy Armor stam sorc relied heaviliy on Warlord. Now, that's gone. Unless you wanna Crit Rush > Dark Deal > Dizzy Swing > Dark Deal > etc. you ain't gonna be untouched as a Stam sorc.

    Yeah... Those sorcs are gonna run out of magicka pretty quickly because shields now cost 16% more than they used to. That's huge. you aren't going to spam shields for days at all.
    @ Izaki #PCEU
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    #MoreDPSthanYou
    #Stamblade
  • Durham
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    I have been playing this game for 3 years and including beta.... I have never seen a class hit harder then the stam DK... this is not a 20% nerf this is at the point of 50% effectiveness nerf....
    -Helping hands 50% nerf on most builds.. on stam
    -Battle Roar nerfed... no sure about the percentage but it's there and yes you can feel it....
    -ingenious shields is huge because it did last the length of vigor now you are lucky you will get 2 to 3 ticks ... this affects stam disportionately because we can't cast it more the three times.. Also our team is over time not instant like the magicka Dk...
    - all abilities cost 10 to 15%more because of champ changes
    - Vigor 30% this affects all stam classes
    - Heavy 42% nerf now you get around 120 regen a sec for it.... if you are taking damage

    Very disappointed I can handle a 20% nerf and try to build around it but this is a whole different story...


    PVP DEADWAIT
    PVP The Unguildables
  • Bashev
    Bashev
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    olsborg wrote: »
    MaxwellC wrote: »
    @olsborg
    Yeah we have minor mending via dragon's blood then again you're missing it. You're stating the minor mending so you expect every DK to slot dragon's blood then combine that with igneous shield which would top around 8k magicka. Stam DKs aren't going to destroy their resource pool just like that especially in PvP and PvE.

    How in the world is helping hands over performing even at 50k stamina which would come out to 2,500 stamina at the cost of 4.4k-4.5k magicka at that point you'd get back 5k when you spend nearly 10k magicka. Even with that you would need to sacrifice a lot and gear it to that hulking set that provides max stamina so yet again it's impossible that it's over performing as you stated.

    I might agree that isolated on its own, helping hands is only strong, not overpeforming, but put into a minmax build with a heavy armor stamdk who's also a redguard you could play a noregen build but still end up with better sustain then a medium armor regen build with 2500 stamregen. This is why ZOS nerfs the resource returns from passives, sure they might have overdone it, as usual, but some kindof nerf was needed.

    Yet a stamsorc who can build completely on damage remains untouched. Also, since when do we dedicate nerfs and buffs based on min/max builds?

    So why not add in min/max sorc whose loaded up to 50k magicka; why are his shields not nerfed? Something needs to be done about that but clearly its over looked and changes are made on classes and skills that are perfectly balanced.

    The problem wasn't the DK passives it was idiotic sets like Hulking Draugr and necropotence for magicka counterparts etc.

    Quit nerfing classes when the real problem is broken gear addition.

    You think? Heavy Armor stam sorc relied heaviliy on Warlord. Now, that's gone. Unless you wanna Crit Rush > Dark Deal > Dizzy Swing > Dark Deal > etc. you ain't gonna be untouched as a Stam sorc.

    Yeah... Those sorcs are gonna run out of magicka pretty quickly because shields now cost 16% more than they used to. That's huge. you aren't going to spam shields for days at all.

    But stam sorc stamina management will be way better than the other classes.
    Because I can!
  • WillhelmBlack
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    At least mag DK got a small boost to Stam return. That should compensate for some of the block nerf.

    I must say I'm not particularly disappointed with any of the nerfs to each of the classes but I can say that Stamina Templar has taken the biggest nerf, not Stam DK.

    PC EU
  • MaxwellC
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    @Zarkeson
    Mate leave my thread forever you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to DragonKnights. You only know how to regurgitate the propaganda you listen to because you get wrecked in PvP then try every band-camp statement to justify why you're right about it. After you were defeated you called ZOS to help you out lol I see they removed some of my comments which is funny because they all were constructive in refuting your baseless claims.
    不動の Steadfast - Unwavering
    XBL Gamer Tag - Maxwell
    XB1 Maxwell Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Redguard Stamina DK
    XB1 Max Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Brenton Magicka DK
    PC Maxwell-Crystal - NA DC - CP 200+ Brenton Magicka DK 「Retired」
    Band Camp statements: To state "But this one time I saw X doing X... so that justifies X" Refers to the Band camp statement.
    Coined by Maxwel
    l
  • MaxwellC
    MaxwellC
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    @WillhelmBlack
    At least mag DK got a small boost to Stam return. That should compensate for some of the block nerf.

    I must say I'm not particularly disappointed with any of the nerfs to each of the classes but I can say that Stamina Templar has taken the biggest nerf, not Stam DK.

    Yeah see that's a perspective of not playing Stamina DK and shouldn't justify these changes as being 'fair'. What is being done is no sustain for Stamina DK whatsoever, sure Mag DK gets some sustain boost but remember now you lose major mending overall and with that goes your survivability. Heck if these changes go through I cannot play my Mag DK as a healer in trials or dungeons anymore since I won't get that 6 second boost reliably since igneous shield's shield is so bloody lackluster it'll drop when a chicken hits it.

    You're also wrong Stam DK has taken the biggest hit as we've been consistently nerf'd while Stamplar got some improvements last patch. If you feel otherwise feel free to come cite me some quotes because I just checked and didn't see a damn improvement for my Stamina DK.
    不動の Steadfast - Unwavering
    XBL Gamer Tag - Maxwell
    XB1 Maxwell Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Redguard Stamina DK
    XB1 Max Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Brenton Magicka DK
    PC Maxwell-Crystal - NA DC - CP 200+ Brenton Magicka DK 「Retired」
    Band Camp statements: To state "But this one time I saw X doing X... so that justifies X" Refers to the Band camp statement.
    Coined by Maxwel
    l
  • MaxwellC
    MaxwellC
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    The sad part is, warden have major mending as a pure passive. But ye, ign shield and vigor too OP

    Wait what? See I didn't hear about this! Yo.. that is insane so they're just gonna snipe major mending from the innate support classes without giving them something DAMN good in return? Talk about a one sided deal where we just get screwed considerably so one class can have the major benefit? Like seriously??
    不動の Steadfast - Unwavering
    XBL Gamer Tag - Maxwell
    XB1 Maxwell Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Redguard Stamina DK
    XB1 Max Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Brenton Magicka DK
    PC Maxwell-Crystal - NA DC - CP 200+ Brenton Magicka DK 「Retired」
    Band Camp statements: To state "But this one time I saw X doing X... so that justifies X" Refers to the Band camp statement.
    Coined by Maxwel
    l
  • WillhelmBlack
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    MaxwellC wrote: »
    @WillhelmBlack
    At least mag DK got a small boost to Stam return. That should compensate for some of the block nerf.

    I must say I'm not particularly disappointed with any of the nerfs to each of the classes but I can say that Stamina Templar has taken the biggest nerf, not Stam DK.

    Yeah see that's a perspective of not playing Stamina DK and shouldn't justify these changes as being 'fair'. What is being done is no sustain for Stamina DK whatsoever, sure Mag DK gets some sustain boost but remember now you lose major mending overall and with that goes your survivability. Heck if these changes go through I cannot play my Mag DK as a healer in trials or dungeons anymore since I won't get that 6 second boost reliably since igneous shield's shield is so bloody lackluster it'll drop when a chicken hits it.

    You're also wrong Stam DK has taken the biggest hit as we've been consistently nerf'd while Stamplar got some improvements last patch. If you feel otherwise feel free to come cite me some quotes because I just checked and didn't see a damn improvement for my Stamina DK.

    Honestly, you're kicking off too early. We have a few weeks of PTS ahead. Stam DK was a massive problem in PvP in regards to their infinite sustain. They'll now have to think of a way of sustaining instead of just stacking 40-50k stamina and let the class do all of its sustaining for them. For PvE, I think you need to catch up on a few Youtube videos, there are many unkillable Stam DK builds out there.

    It might be that the nerfs are completely overkill. We'll find out very soon.

    Edit ; just want to add, my mag DK has never had healing problems since the last patch, same goes for all classes though, healing is OTT in this MMO. The only time he's killed is from being focused on by multiple players or massive burst damage from a stamblade. I don't think he's ever even died in PvE, actually, once soloing a vet dungeon.
    Edited by WillhelmBlack on April 18, 2017 1:09PM
    PC EU
  • FlyLionel
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    They could keep the major mending nerf, there are workarounds=CC then buff heal but in outnumbered situation that is a no. My tank in pve is going from infinite sustain OP to I need support for any content Coa2+. Whether that is good or not is polarizing. But truthfully I pride myself on being a tank that does not need a healer for VDSA or a random queue into a dungeon etc. This most definetely lowers the ceiling alright. My question is not for pvp but for pve, has zos went back into every trial and dungeon to make sure everything is okay? I find it difficult to believe that they have, hircine veneer meta.

    Edit: Actually I have faith that they did go back into all trial hard modes and made sure they are do-able but still...I gotta find greatttt players now..ideally.
    Edited by FlyLionel on April 18, 2017 1:05PM
    The Flyers
  • MaxwellC
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    Honestly, you're kicking off too early. We have a few weeks of PTS ahead. Stam DK was a massive problem in PvP in regards to their infinite sustain. They'll now have to think of a way of sustaining instead of just stacking 40-50k stamina and let the class do all of its sustaining for them. For PvE, I think you need to catch up on a few Youtube videos, there are many unkillable Stam DK builds out there.

    It might be that the nerfs are completely overkill. We'll find out very soon.

    Please my goodness prove it if you seriously think that a Stam DKs sustain was a massive problem PROVE IT. How is that a thing because as long as I've played PvP on my Stam DK the only time I had little sustain issues is when I wore 5 pc marksman but yet again that's a set influencing my class and not the class it's self.
    You cannot justify these nerfs especially when dark deal hasn't been touched on Stam Sorc. You talk about stacking 40k-50k stamina, read the other posts mate how the hell is stacking that much stamina and gimping out weapon damage good for sustain when you're only reliance would be igneous shield which costs literally 4.4-4.5k soon to be more with these changes. My pool on my Stamina DK is around 10k PLEASE TELL ME how the hell will I sustain with a 2.5k return that gets burned in one ability use?

    I swear I feel that you're that same zark guy because you guys cite all these un-kill-able DK videos then it comes out to be a bloody armor set that doesn't involve the DKs skills at all rather than the set in conjunction with the blocking passive and that's it. Show me a video I'll even wait for you.

    Also I'm ahead because I don't want my class to be nerf'd again for what 3 patches in a row. So ofc I'm very vocal about it currently so it gets something across immediately.

    It's like would you fix a weird sound you hear in your car two weeks down the line or would you take that car by the horns and fix it immediately because it could potentially destroy it?
    Edited by MaxwellC on April 18, 2017 1:13PM
    不動の Steadfast - Unwavering
    XBL Gamer Tag - Maxwell
    XB1 Maxwell Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Redguard Stamina DK
    XB1 Max Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Brenton Magicka DK
    PC Maxwell-Crystal - NA DC - CP 200+ Brenton Magicka DK 「Retired」
    Band Camp statements: To state "But this one time I saw X doing X... so that justifies X" Refers to the Band camp statement.
    Coined by Maxwel
    l
  • Valencer
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    MaxwellC wrote: »
    @WillhelmBlack
    At least mag DK got a small boost to Stam return. That should compensate for some of the block nerf.

    I must say I'm not particularly disappointed with any of the nerfs to each of the classes but I can say that Stamina Templar has taken the biggest nerf, not Stam DK.

    Yeah see that's a perspective of not playing Stamina DK and shouldn't justify these changes as being 'fair'. What is being done is no sustain for Stamina DK whatsoever, sure Mag DK gets some sustain boost but remember now you lose major mending overall and with that goes your survivability. Heck if these changes go through I cannot play my Mag DK as a healer in trials or dungeons anymore since I won't get that 6 second boost reliably since igneous shield's shield is so bloody lackluster it'll drop when a chicken hits it.

    You're also wrong Stam DK has taken the biggest hit as we've been consistently nerf'd while Stamplar got some improvements last patch. If you feel otherwise feel free to come cite me some quotes because I just checked and didn't see a damn improvement for my Stamina DK.

    Honestly, you're kicking off too early. We have a few weeks of PTS ahead. Stam DK was a massive problem in PvP in regards to their infinite sustain. They'll now have to think of a way of sustaining instead of just stacking 40-50k stamina and let the class do all of its sustaining for them. For PvE, I think you need to catch up on a few Youtube videos, there are many unkillable Stam DK builds out there.

    It might be that the nerfs are completely overkill. We'll find out very soon.

    Redguard + heavy armour allowed stamina DKs to sustain perfectly with high max stamina and low regen. These battle roar and helping hands nerfs have a huge impact on stamina DK builds not crutching on those 2 things on the live server.

    DK Major Mending might as well be non-existent in PvP now too, because the average DK PvP build has igneous shields that can be removed with a light attack.

    Anyway, there's no point QQing about it so I won't. In typical ZOS fashion, they hit everything with a sledgehammer.
    Edited by Valencer on April 18, 2017 1:13PM
  • MaxwellC
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    @FlyLionel
    Nah you know they didn't go through every single trial including vDSA, to make sure these changes wouldn't destroy PvE. If they remove Major mending then they need to remove sorcs damage passive and NBs crit passive then it'll be fair. How about that? *Sarcasm* so you know.
    不動の Steadfast - Unwavering
    XBL Gamer Tag - Maxwell
    XB1 Maxwell Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Redguard Stamina DK
    XB1 Max Crystal - NA DC CP 800+ Brenton Magicka DK
    PC Maxwell-Crystal - NA DC - CP 200+ Brenton Magicka DK 「Retired」
    Band Camp statements: To state "But this one time I saw X doing X... so that justifies X" Refers to the Band camp statement.
    Coined by Maxwel
    l
  • LorDrek
    LorDrek
    ✭✭✭
    Completly kill my tank with high stat. All gear is totaly crap with this patch.
    Imperial DK stamDPS, Nord DK magTANK
    YDoA CZ/SK Guild
    @LorDrek
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