I Thought Cragorn Main Story Was Being Made Solo?

Dagoth_Rac · October 2016

I completely agree and really like that optional side quests and instanced delves like Shada's Tear have been tuned for groups of 2 or more. But why are some Main Story quests still sending us to instanced delves that are tuned for groups of 2 or more?

For example, "Elemental Army" quest shows in journal with a single head next to it. And the quest sent me to various delves that are similar in difficulty to delves in solo zones like Rivenspire or Auridon or Eastmarch. And the delves were not instanced. Other players would come and go, just like a normal solo zone delve. Exactly what I expected.

But, "The Shattered and the Lost" main story quest shows in journal as a head with a plus sign next to it. And it requires you to defeat content like Anomalies and instanced group delves. Can they be soloed by a great player with a great build? Sure. But this does not seem to sync with the patch notes. And while finding a group is not hard right now because everyone is re-doing Craglorn quests or grinding Anomalies for new sets, in a month or two when activity drops, we are going to be right back to situation where the average player cannot experience the Craglorn story.

So are the patch notes wrong and some of the Craglorn main story is intentionally still tuned in difficulty for groups? Or are the patch notes correct and this is a bug or oversight in the Craglorn main story redesign?

MissBizz · October 2016

I haven't personally done Craglorn, but I saw it mentioned back on PTS that the main story still sent you to some group areas..

Saw a comment by Nestor that seems to sum it up quite nicely.

Nestor wrote: »

Also, the Main Quest for that zone, the one that leads to a Nirn Drop, can be solo'd, for the most part. There are a couple of group delves where you basically run for your life through the dungeon, maybe wipe a time or two, to get to the place you need to be. All the other Delves for the MQ are truly Solo if you want them to be.

I will be doing Upper tonight on a character so let you know on that one. I remember that last boss fight was not something I want to do solo, so we will see.

I imagine that there may have been a point where Zos had to decide whether to make a bunch more places solo, or just hope people would do as Nestor suggested above. They wanted it to be solo friendly, but drew a line at some delves?

Nestor · October 2016

At least the Lower Craglorn part of the Zone Main Quest is soloable, for the most part. Some of the Delves are miss-labeled as Group but when you go in, they are like a regular Delve.

There were two Delves, that are still Group and have Group level enemies and mobs. I just ran through them, with a death or two along the way, to get to the place in the Delve for the quest. There was one boss that I needed help with in those Delves, but could probably be solo'd with a patient approach to combat. So, other than the one delve boss, you can do Lower Crag Solo. There was one boss I had to pop an indivisibility potion to get behind to get to a door, and I probably could have prevailed on that one, but sneak works for me.

I meant to do Upper last night, just did not feel like it. So, not sure on that one. The Lower Craglorn quest could be tweaked a bit, at least with those two delves.

Beardimus · October 2016

Side question @Nestor what denotes upper/lower Craglorn? I'm console so always had it all at once so u curious what the split is

Nestor · October 2016

Beardimus wrote: »

Side question @Nestor what denotes upper/lower Craglorn? I'm console so always had it all at once so u curious what the split is

@Beardimus

Basically, is the Cliffs that you can't climb up that separate the two areas. This Cliff runs East to West across the zone. You can only use the road near Dragonstar on the West side of the zone to get up there, forget what the road goes by on the East side. But those roads are the only way into Upper Craglorn if you have not unlocked the Wayshrines. Upper Crag is about 1/3 the zone.

MissBizz · October 2016

Double post. oops!

Wait it wasn't but Nestor ninja'd my google the map idea.

Dagoth_Rac · October 2016

For Shattered and the Lost, I was able to solo the Dwemer spider boss in the one delve and the crocodile boss in the other delve, but the werewolf boss in the second delve was unbelievable. He still feels tuned for a group of four, not two, let alone one. The sheer number of adds he calls is overwhelming.

I was able to get the quest part finished, but there should not be the equivalent of world bosses in a Craglorn story quest, even if there are workarounds (such as the mentioned suicide and ghost past or using invisibility potions).

Jekerl · October 2016

The “Shattered and the Lost” and “The Corrupted Stone” are no longer required to complete the zone story of Craglorn. They’re still balanced for two to four player groups.

Beardimus · October 2016

@Nestor you are awesome as ever! I've wondered that for a while!! @MissBizz ur awesome too!

Nestor · October 2016

Jekerl wrote: »

The “Shattered and the Lost” and “The Corrupted Stone” are no longer required to complete the zone story of Craglorn. They’re still balanced for two to four player groups.

They are still part of the Achievement that governs these quests. So it can be misleading if folks are using the Journal to track progress. Or, have done the quests before the de-group change that was made.

@Jekerl

Enodoc · October 2016

Nestor wrote: »

Jekerl wrote: »

The “Shattered and the Lost” and “The Corrupted Stone” are no longer required to complete the zone story of Craglorn. They’re still balanced for two to four player groups.

They are still part of the Achievement that governs these quests. So it can be misleading if folks are using the Journal to track progress. Or, have done the quests before the de-group change that was made.

I was thinking the same thing. Considering how important they are to the storyline, in introducing the Apex Stones of the Guardians which form a major part of "The Missing Guardian", it's a bit odd that they're no longer required for story completion, and essentially no longer considered part of the story (despite still being part of the Celestial Investigator story achievement). I guess that explains why Erold was moved out of the Observatory, though.

KerinKor · October 2016

Jekerl wrote: »

They’re still balanced for two to four player groups.

Why?

rusila22 · October 2016

at least give us the choice to do it in solo or in group.

Thanks

MasterSpatula · October 2016

Nestor wrote: »

At least the Lower Craglorn part of the Zone Main Quest is soloable, for the most part. Some of the Delves are miss-labeled as Group but when you go in, they are like a regular Delve.

There were two Delves, that are still Group and have Group level enemies and mobs. I just ran through them, with a death or two along the way, to get to the place in the Delve for the quest. There was one boss that I needed help with in those Delves, but could probably be solo'd with a patient approach to combat. So, other than the one delve boss, you can do Lower Crag Solo. There was one boss I had to pop an indivisibility potion to get behind to get to a door, and I probably could have prevailed on that one, but sneak works for me.

I meant to do Upper last night, just did not feel like it. So, not sure on that one. The Lower Craglorn quest could be tweaked a bit, at least with those two delves.

@Nestor, is the one with the Ginormous Dwemer Spider easier now? I managed to get another guy to do that one with me several months ago, but we pulled the spider so far from its starting point that we didn't get the achievement and white map marker for it.

WhiteCoatSyndrome · October 2016

Enodoc wrote: »

I was thinking the same thing. Considering how important they are to the storyline, in introducing the Apex Stones of the Guardians which form a major part of "The Missing Guardian", it's a bit odd that they're no longer required for story completion, and essentially no longer considered part of the story (despite still being part of the Celestial Investigator story achievement). I guess that explains why Erold was moved out of the Observatory, though.

I agree with this; from a lore perspective it's arguably one of the most important things we learn about the constellations, period, and could theoretically have repercussions in a future game. The stuff about Titus and the Monarchs, while interesting, isn't nearly as potentially far-reaching. $:\$ I'm glad I went through it when it was group mode and got it as it was originally intended.

Dagoth_Rac · October 2016

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

At least the Lower Craglorn part of the Zone Main Quest is soloable, for the most part. Some of the Delves are miss-labeled as Group but when you go in, they are like a regular Delve.

There were two Delves, that are still Group and have Group level enemies and mobs. I just ran through them, with a death or two along the way, to get to the place in the Delve for the quest. There was one boss that I needed help with in those Delves, but could probably be solo'd with a patient approach to combat. So, other than the one delve boss, you can do Lower Crag Solo. There was one boss I had to pop an indivisibility potion to get behind to get to a door, and I probably could have prevailed on that one, but sneak works for me.

I meant to do Upper last night, just did not feel like it. So, not sure on that one. The Lower Craglorn quest could be tweaked a bit, at least with those two delves.

@Nestor, is the one with the Ginormous Dwemer Spider easier now? I managed to get another guy to do that one with me several months ago, but we pulled the spider so far from its starting point that we didn't get the achievement and white map marker for it.

All of the group bosses are much harder now. For example, the Scaled Court mage boss in Ruins of Kardala who is part of the Corrupted Stone quest had his health buffed from 338K to 702k. I did not catch the Dwemer Spider boss' health (I assume you mean Mezklok in Rkundzelft who is part of The Shattered and the Lost), but it seemed like not quite such a leap. I think it went from like 350K to 450K. There is a smaller Dwemer Spider boss that is part of The Corrupted Stone. He is probably just as tough, if not tougher, despite the smaller size. I think you can just walk around him, though. Mezklok and the Scaled Court mage are both directly in your path to quest objective and cannot be avoided.

I was able to solo both Dwemer Spiders, but not the Scaled Court boss with 700K+ health. I might have been able to do it eventually with a lot of practice and luck, but it's not like there is a Maelstrom weapon at end or anything.

Elara_Northwind · October 2016

Craglorn group delves were soloable before this with even lower level characters before the addition of cp, so if they have now been made easier to apparently be doable in groups of 2, they should probably be very easily soloable now anyway, no? Did you try to do it anyway, despite it telling you that its a group instance? Because it was probably doable

Dagoth_Rac · October 2016

SadieJoan wrote: »

Craglorn group delves were soloable before this with even lower level characters before the addition of cp, so if they have now been made easier to apparently be doable in groups of 2, they should probably be very easily soloable now anyway, no? Did you try to do it anyway, despite it telling you that its a group instance? Because it was probably doable

All the bosses have been buffed significantly in the Craglorn group delves. They are now clearly designed for 2 players in October 2016, whereas until last week they were still essentially designed for 4 soft-capped VR12 players with no CP in May 2014.

Can they be done solo? Yep. But it is VMSA style solo content at that point.

I think the difficulty increase is great for the repeatable daily quests, but not for one-time-only story quests.

dpencil · October 2016

First, I am not bragging. I just want to be honest in my answer. I soloed all of Craglorn long before 1T. There were 3 or 4 times where I had to get other people to group with me just to get through door mechanics. This quest line had one of those gates. Earlier today, I soloed this quest line again and it was definitely easier than pre 1T, and the most important part was that the door mechanic no longer required a group. I also soloed the Spell Scar today, which was another gated quest before. The difficulty level is definitely tuned down from pre 1T, but the primary thing they did was remove the artificial barriers that forced grouping.

EDIT: The Anomalies are certainly soloable. They feel about the same difficulty-wise as before 1T. The toughest thing in Craglorn is the altar spots. It's really hard to keep that girl alive when you're alone.

Master_Fluff · October 2016

It's possible to sneak past the Scaled Court boss in Ruins of Kardala. As for the giant dwemer spider in Rkundzelft, just allow yourself to get wiped and open the door immediately after ressing. Instant boss de-aggro occurs. Unless you play a magblade, of course. Then it's just cloak spam everywhere.

moonio · October 2016

Craglorn seems to be a bit broken on the PS4 EU, monsters are not spawning, there are constant messages saying entering group area/leaving group area and the place seems empty apart from the hundreds of players standing around waiting for something to happen.

I'm mostly talking about the areas around the focus crystal arenas and magical anomalies, these used to be great for solo play as they were quite challenging and featured waves of attacks etc.
Now they are just empty of anything to kill.
We managed to get a few monsters to spawn by grouping but they were killed almost instantly due to the sheer numbers of people standing around.

The crystal never appeared and remained in the state where you can use it to increase spell resistance etc.

Nestor · October 2016

MasterSpatula wrote: »

@Nestor, is the one with the Ginormous Dwemer Spider easier now? I managed to get another guy to do that one with me several months ago, but we pulled the spider so far from its starting point that we didn't get the achievement and white map marker for it.

I looked at that thing, the enormous health and snuck by.

Integral1900 · October 2016

It's a daft decision, the craglorn main story is already less a novel and more of a pamphlet, without that section it makes even less sense

Bobby_V_Rockit · October 2016

It is, I completed it yesterday

Enodoc · October 2016

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

It is, I completed it yesterday

Did you complete the Shattered and the Lost and the Corrupted Stone? They're still group quests, but I'm interested to know how soloable they actually are.

Bobby_V_Rockit · October 2016

Not sure, I completed everything that lead to the nirnhoned coffer, I think was 8 quests? Some bosses took 2 or 3 goes though

Mandragora · October 2016

Jekerl wrote: »

The “Shattered and the Lost” and “The Corrupted Stone” are no longer required to complete the zone story of Craglorn. They’re still balanced for two to four player groups.

Would it be possible to gate the group delves as story / veteran option upon entering? If it is not possible, then why? It is an instance - I wish it wouldn't be an instance atleast, so I could get help from random players atleast.

I could solo thief quest chain only with my level 25 mage - I wanted to do the zone with that alt - and it is impossible to do it now for me. Also the thief is the only part, where you can get even help from others - you can get help+it is solo. But 1 solo part of a group quest chains - what is the point?

EATherrian · November 2016

Is The Missing Guardian part of the storyline? I can't seem to finish it solo, you seem to need two people at the end. If I can skip it I will for now.

Nestor · November 2016

EATherrian wrote: »

Is The Missing Guardian part of the storyline? I can't seem to finish it solo, you seem to need two people at the end. If I can skip it I will for now.

@EATherrian

Actually, you don't, just walk onto each platform (if I am remembering the same place). However, other than one Boss Fight which I probably could have solo'd (I asked my Guild for help) none of the quests of the original 5 in Lower Craglorn requires a group or a duo. Two of the Delves that you go into for the quests are definitely Group and you will need a group or more than one to complete the Delve. But you can run and die and ghost your way to the objectives for the Craglorn Quest.

EATherrian · November 2016

Nestor wrote: »

EATherrian wrote: »

Is The Missing Guardian part of the storyline? I can't seem to finish it solo, you seem to need two people at the end. If I can skip it I will for now.

@EATherrian

Actually, you don't, just walk onto each platform (if I am remembering the same place). However, other than one Boss Fight which I probably could have solo'd (I asked my Guild for help) none of the quests of the original 5 in Lower Craglorn requires a group or a duo. Two of the Delves that you go into for the quests are definitely Group and you will need a group or more than one to complete the Delve. But you can run and die and ghost your way to the objectives for the Craglorn Quest.

I've done that. I click each stone but nothing happens. Should I submit a bug report?

Lylith · January 2017

dpencil wrote: »

First, I am not bragging. I just want to be honest in my answer. I soloed all of Craglorn long before 1T. There were 3 or 4 times where I had to get other people to group with me just to get through door mechanics. This quest line had one of those gates. Earlier today, I soloed this quest line again and it was definitely easier than pre 1T, and the most important part was that the door mechanic no longer required a group. I also soloed the Spell Scar today, which was another gated quest before. The difficulty level is definitely tuned down from pre 1T, but the primary thing they did was remove the artificial barriers that forced grouping.

EDIT: The Anomalies are certainly soloable. They feel about the same difficulty-wise as before 1T. The toughest thing in Craglorn is the altar spots. It's really hard to keep that girl alive when you're alone.

proud for you.

meanwhile, some of us mere mortals are still struggling with the buffed up dwemer spider bosses.