DocFrost72 wrote: »

I thought these threads died?

They will keep coming back the longer the game goes, because they become more of a must over time

ZOS_PeterT wrote: »

We have moved this discussion to: Crown Store & ESO Plus

Thank you.

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

I thought these threads died?

They will keep coming back the longer the game goes, because they become more of a must over time

You're going to need a sleeping bag. This subject gas been extensively, some would say exhaustively examined.

ESO plus needs a reason to draw you in that isn't required to play the game (or even impact anything other than convenience).

DocFrost72 wrote: »

I thought these threads died?

They should have nothing about a crafting bag is p2w, just someone wanting something for nothing most likely.

This game so far has been really good about keeping p2w out of the store, that's not to say at some point that might change but there are so many different opinions on what p2w is it varies as mush as the players.
So far nothing in the store to give me an advantage over other players or make me god like on the battlefield. But some folks can twist the most simple things into things they are not.

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Wow wrote: »

@Bigevilpeter That's not right.

Here let me show you something you would see in P2W business model

- Quest locked with cash shop item, TL;DR you need to buy item from cash shop to proceed the quests http://twinsaga.aeriagames.com/itemmall/Webshop/Quest+Items
- Let alone Crafting Bag, in P2Win business model you would need to spend real money to even upgrade your bank/inventory slot which in ESO you can do that with in-game Gold.

Aren't dlc quests locked behind a paywall and you get by subbing?

Don't you have a limit for upgrading you bank and you can never get to the point of the craft bags?

Even by your explanation thats p2w the way i see it

If inventory size was a measure of winning, you'd be right. It's not, however. And unfortunately for you, this does not in any way constitute pay to win.

Two equal players, one with the craft bags and one without, will still be equal. You feel inconvenienced by something you've dealt with for years, once you saw a shiny. I'd be very much on your side if they reduced bag size and made the old bag size for paying customers only, but news flash: that did not happen.

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Wow wrote: »

@Bigevilpeter That's not right.

Here let me show you something you would see in P2W business model

- Quest locked with cash shop item, TL;DR you need to buy item from cash shop to proceed the quests http://twinsaga.aeriagames.com/itemmall/Webshop/Quest+Items
- Let alone Crafting Bag, in P2Win business model you would need to spend real money to even upgrade your bank/inventory slot which in ESO you can do that with in-game Gold.

Aren't dlc quests locked behind a paywall and you get by subbing?

Don't you have a limit for upgrading you bank and you can never get to the point of the craft bags?

Even by your explanation thats p2w the way i see it

If inventory size was a measure of winning, you'd be right. It's not, however. And unfortunately for you, this does not in any way constitute pay to win.

Two equal players, one with the craft bags and one without, will still be equal. You feel inconvenienced by something you've dealt with for years, once you saw a shiny. I'd be very much on your side if they reduced bag size and made the old bag size for paying customers only, but news flash: that did not happen.

Its p2w that i have to sell gear that i might need in the future to empty up space, its p2w that i have to sell my runes, food abd alchemy ingredients to open up space.

Its p2w that it annoys you so much that you have to sub.

maybe p2w was a bad description f2p is better i guess

Trust me, go ahead and make your life easier; get a guild bank. Use mules on seperate characters. (For 2400 gold, you get 80 slots to store stuffs). None of the green and white quality gear you pick up in most instances is even comparable to crafted set gear.

You, in my opinion at least, are fighting a losing battle calling craft bags pay to win.

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

DocFrost72 wrote: »

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Wow wrote: »

@Bigevilpeter That's not right.

Here let me show you something you would see in P2W business model

- Quest locked with cash shop item, TL;DR you need to buy item from cash shop to proceed the quests http://twinsaga.aeriagames.com/itemmall/Webshop/Quest+Items
- Let alone Crafting Bag, in P2Win business model you would need to spend real money to even upgrade your bank/inventory slot which in ESO you can do that with in-game Gold.

Aren't dlc quests locked behind a paywall and you get by subbing?

Don't you have a limit for upgrading you bank and you can never get to the point of the craft bags?

Even by your explanation thats p2w the way i see it

If inventory size was a measure of winning, you'd be right. It's not, however. And unfortunately for you, this does not in any way constitute pay to win.

Two equal players, one with the craft bags and one without, will still be equal. You feel inconvenienced by something you've dealt with for years, once you saw a shiny. I'd be very much on your side if they reduced bag size and made the old bag size for paying customers only, but news flash: that did not happen.

Its p2w that i have to sell gear that i might need in the future to empty up space, its p2w that i have to sell my runes, food abd alchemy ingredients to open up space.

Its p2w that it annoys you so much that you have to sub.

maybe p2w was a bad description f2p is better i guess

Really? Do you just argue for the sake of arguing?

ITT: OP doesn't understand what P2W means.

Talyena wrote: »

So the bags should just be given free to everyone? How exactly do you propose the game continue making enough money to pay all its employees, keep all the hardware up and running, continue to improve the game, AND make a profit if they give practically everything away for free?

I didn't say the bags should be given to everyone, let alone for free. I was merely suggesting that the bank/bag expansions that you can buy ingame for gold be expanded for about 20 slots given the increase of collectible items.

Besides, I was just pointing out something with regards to "fairness". ZOS financial balance is a different topic altogether, about which we have not enough info to say anything even remotely relevant.

Tandor wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

It has changed quite significantly in so far as there are now 4 more mule slots. I am in favour of periodic increases in the bank slots, however. I would much prefer if they were added as personal character bank slots so that there was an opportunity to keep some items personal to each character rather than everything being shared.

Bear in mind also that we have housing coming in the first quarter of next year, and I would be very surprised (and even more disappointed) if some sort of storage space wasn't included in that.

The four extra char slots are a crown store option, not an in game option... if people have to either sub or spend crowns to enjoy the game normally, due to the multiplication of style items, crafting mats, etc., that's not really fair from ZOS imho. Not a dealbreaking thing, but still not 100% fair.

And yes HOUSING... may the ZOS' highest authorities hear you, I hope there will be storage in the houses. But again, we know nothing yet about housing, it might just as well be a pure crown store purchase option... I hope to be wrong, but I wouldn't be surprised if even subscribers had to spend crowns to access housing :-(

I was merely correcting you when you said nothing had changed. I hadn't realised you wanted it all for nothing. That seems an unreasonable approach, not least in a topic the very basis of which is the OP's belief that the crafting bag should be made available in the Crown Store.

I don't want it "all for nothing". But I do believe that the crown store should offer optional stuff only. If the ratio between harvestable stuff in game and inventory space is changing so drastically that extra character slots are compulsory for the game to be playable, I don't think that's fair. As a matter of principle.
The base game "buy to play" option should be playable with a reasonable level of comfort and subbing or crown store stuff should simply provide you with more options or convenience. At the moment I don't think the base game provides that reasonable level of playability because of those inventory issues.

Bigevilpeter wrote: »

Wow wrote: »

@Bigevilpeter That's not right.

Here let me show you something you would see in P2W business model

- Quest locked with cash shop item, TL;DR you need to buy item from cash shop to proceed the quests http://twinsaga.aeriagames.com/itemmall/Webshop/Quest+Items
- Let alone Crafting Bag, in P2Win business model you would need to spend real money to even upgrade your bank/inventory slot which in ESO you can do that with in-game Gold.

Aren't dlc quests locked behind a paywall and you get by subbing?

Don't you have a limit for upgrading you bank and you can never get to the point of the craft bags?

Even by your explanation thats p2w the way i see it

Nope.

Dlc quests are locked behind the dlc; you can sub and get access as long as you're subbed.

You can buy crowns, buy the dlc, and get access for as long as the game is active.

The whole game was locked behind a paywall; you had to buy the game. The dlc works the same.

The 4 extra slots are nice. However they aren't a necessity. I have two maxed out crafters. One used to carry all the mats needed to craft armor and weapons for the three of the 5 guilds I belong to. Some crafting items were held in my bank. The other maxed crafter held all the alchemy, ingredients for food, and runes for enchanting. I kept rekuta, and kuta in the bank, along with the purple provisioner mats. Everything else was on the characters. I use the other 6 original characters to collect stuff and hold it until one of my crafters needed it. I used the crowns I got with my sub to buy the dlc so if and when I decide to drop the sub I still have the dlc. The crafting bag is a nice perk for a sub, but it isn't pay to win.

Until you can smother Molag Bal with all the ore, ingots, flowers, meat, flour, wood, jute, flax, hide, kreshweed and all the other mats you carry, or whack him over the head with the crafting bag for a instant kill, the crafting bag isn't pay to win.

Or better yet, walk into vet maelstrom arena, hold up the crafting bag to take out every opponent, and instantly become champion and get all the rewards. Now *that* would be pay to win.

JKorr wrote: »

As you level up your crafting skills and your character, you'll not need the lower level mats. Just talk to STEVIL about it. You get lower level mats for doing writs, in addition to whatever is appropriate level. I tried it on the pts; did ruby level writs and got a crate of regular hide.

Those people who are crafters for guilds with many members at many different levels might have issues with not being able to find lower level mats, but apparently they come in crates of 25, so one inventory slot.

I know all this.
But if you want to craft for OTHER PEOPLE you'll rely on those mats you get from writs and you'll have to keep them over time. Of course it's not one slot, that's 50 slots (if you want to have everything OTHER PEOPLE would need).

5 crafts (wood, leather, cloth, metal, alchemy) x 10 levels = 50 slots.