The restoration staff (Healing staff) skills need some adjustments (Poll)

NewBlacksmurf · September 2016

Opinion Poll, as I believe the *healing staff* needs skill adjustments and some slight effect changes (for PvE) however as designed I will propose some changes and please vote if you also feel changes should occur. Vote is yes you feel changes should happen (its not if you agree with my changes)

Please be sure to propose your own suggestions if you have them.
No means, you like things as is...even the proposed ultimate coming in update 12.

My Suggestions:

1. Force Siphon should be the very first basic skill unlocked. I believe they should add a low DoT to it and increase the HoT amount and % to other players. (A glow or some added effect over the target would help players see this is the target to attack to get healing)
2. Regeneration (heal 3 other players instead of 2)
3. Pancea Ult) - .... this should work kinda like the Templars Rite of Passage but it should keep the 20m radius and allow you to move.

Milvan · September 2016

No changes should not occur

I barely use my breath of life because of the restoration staff skills and healing ward + rapid regeneration are currently the best solo heals. Of course, they could add a little bit more utility, few more buffs, increase the duration of others, but these are just minor details, this skill line is great as it is now.

NewBlacksmurf · September 2016

Yes, changes should occur

Milvan wrote: »

I barely use my breath of life because of the restoration staff skills and healing ward + rapid regeneration are currently the best solo heals. Of course, they could add a little bit more utility, few more buffs, increase the duration of others, but these are just minor details, this skill line is great as it is now.

I should state....this isn't really for players above CP 160, its directed at players below 50
I disagree that the skill line is great, because I barely use any of these anymore as the Templar skills, even after being nerfed are far superior but that limits effective healers to one class.

I dont think that the best focus as other roles are not limited to one in the Templar comparison.

Suter1972 · September 2016

to be honest as a lvl37 templar I hardly use my resto staff. I have the skills slotted but don’t use them.

I use a fire staff and use the Templar class healing skills.

Only time I do is if I go full healer in a small group

NewBlacksmurf · September 2016

Yes, changes should occur

Suter1972 wrote: »

to be honest as a lvl37 templar I hardly use my resto staff. I have the skills slotted but don’t use them.

I use a fire staff and use the Templar class healing skills.

Only time I do is if I go full healer in a small group

@Suter1972
EXACTLY see thats my point of this post.

Milvan · September 2016

No changes should not occur

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Milvan wrote: »

I barely use my breath of life because of the restoration staff skills and healing ward + rapid regeneration are currently the best solo heals. Of course, they could add a little bit more utility, few more buffs, increase the duration of others, but these are just minor details, this skill line is great as it is now.

I should state....this isn't really for players above CP 160, its directed at players below 50
I disagree that the skill line is great, because I barely use any of these anymore as the Templar skills, even after being nerfed are far superior but that limits effective healers to one class.

I dont think that the best focus as other roles are not limited to one in the Templar comparison.

First of all, it's not true that effective healers are limited to templars, if you look for the top trial guilds and their runs on youtube most of them roll with sorcerer and nb heals. So this is not really true.
I don't think its fair to compare one skill line with a whole class. I bought up BoL because is a great group panic heal in the game but it can be substituted quite easily . All classes have their utilities, you can't ask to make a skill line comparable with a whole class. Restoration staff is complementary to utilities from the classes skills and vice-versa.

Btw, in your op you state that "I believe the *healing staff* needs skill adjustments and some slight effect changes" but you didn't the reason why you think it deserve adjustaments.

AlnilamE · September 2016

No changes should not occur

I'm curious as to why you think these changes would be necessary.

For example:

1. The first skill of the resto line is a targeted direct heal. Why would you change that to a heal that depends on damage done to a specific target? Surely that is less important to someone below level 50 than actually being able to heal themselves if they are injured? Also, Force Siphon already has a clear visual indicating that the target is affected.
2. Why? It's essentially an instant cast and it's not hard to keep your group buffed.

BTW, I have a Templar and Healing Springs is my best friend.

NewBlacksmurf · September 2016

Yes, changes should occur

Milvan wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Milvan wrote: »

I barely use my breath of life because of the restoration staff skills and healing ward + rapid regeneration are currently the best solo heals. Of course, they could add a little bit more utility, few more buffs, increase the duration of others, but these are just minor details, this skill line is great as it is now.

I should state....this isn't really for players above CP 160, its directed at players below 50
I disagree that the skill line is great, because I barely use any of these anymore as the Templar skills, even after being nerfed are far superior but that limits effective healers to one class.

I dont think that the best focus as other roles are not limited to one in the Templar comparison.

First of all, it's not true that effective healers are limited to templars, if you look for the top trial guilds and their runs on youtube most of them roll with sorcerer and nb heals. So this is not really true.
I don't think its fair to compare one skill line with a whole class. I bought up BoL because is a great group panic heal in the game but it can be substituted quite easily . All classes have their utilities, you can't ask to make a skill line comparable with a whole class. Restoration staff is complementary to utilities from the classes skills and vice-versa.

Btw, in your op you state that "I believe the *healing staff* needs skill adjustments and some slight effect changes" but you didn't the reason why you think it deserve adjustaments.

@Milvan
I think you're missing the point but you've made the point I'm raising very effectively.

-Top Trial guilds.....sure if you're in the top 1% of all players in the game and maxed skills, gear and play with elite players....but what you do not see is random groups non-trials or just people playing in a duo using the Restoration Staff only as a viable way to heal and play.

-The staff as you write is literally only a utility and thats the whole problem.
Understand that until you hit 40+ most of the skill that need to be unlocked and raised are not accessible by class and weapon unless you're a Templar.

Thats literally supporting my opinion and if you read it, the suggestions are centered around why there needs to be changes.

(To be clear)
-The first two skills do not offer effective healing solely.
the order that skills should be unlocked is 1. Forced Syphon, 2. Blessing of Protection 3. Regeneration 4. Grand Healing 5. Steadfast ward

Players who are healers in groups need to be given the best opportunity to be successful in their role of a healer. If not a Templar, that doesn't exist until later but grouping is accessible now at level 10 and we will see more and more opportunities with update 12 as mushing all players together outside of Trials with limited effectiveness is a nightmare.

I've made and leveled all classes to VR2-6 in the old systems. My Templar and DK were VR16 but I mixed and matched different sets, skills, weapons to be viable and it was only possible after level 40.

When lower regardless of combination, I was inadequate compared to a Templar only using class skills and no weapon skills.
Its not even a close comparison.

BUT TO BE VEY CLEAR>
-The top trial groups are using Sorc and NB's with a restoration staff for their DPS and not as a means to increase healing.
So if the best way to be in the top 1% is basically going in as DPS with utilities from the restoration staff and destruction staff, that is very telling.

NewBlacksmurf · September 2016

Yes, changes should occur

AlnilamE wrote: »

I'm curious as to why you think these changes would be necessary.

For example:

1. The first skill of the resto line is a targeted direct heal. Why would you change that to a heal that depends on damage done to a specific target? Surely that is less important to someone below level 50 than actually being able to heal themselves if they are injured? Also, Force Siphon already has a clear visual indicating that the target is affected.
2. Why? It's essentially an instant cast and it's not hard to keep your group buffed.

BTW, I have a Templar and Healing Springs is my best friend.

@AlnilamE
1. Because if the heal is based on the healer its limited to the player in the role, whereas if the healing done is based on the player needing to be healed (their dmg) its going to heal in a scale with the player needing healing.
-If you're first healing ability unlocked which occurs around level 3 is one that when used, it heals based on the target being attacked, that makes a lot more sense than healing hoping the game chooses the target you want to heal. Ideally at this level you're either playing alone or in a duo trying to level up so its of no importance to have any of the other skills at this time.
-Force Syphon does not have a clear visual....its only clear if there are other effects going on with groups of NPCs or if you're far away. It would benefit from a more obvious illumination at least.
* On console when we voice chat, players always ask me....hey what does that mean when you do that thing...am I suppose to go hit them. Then others chime in...what thing are they talking about. Can you do it again as I'm not seeing what they're talking about.
Usually the tank is asking the first question, and possibly another melee player but all ranged players are the second question.
It suggests there are opportunities for improvements

2. The restoration staff especially at levels 3-25 need to provide very effective healing, absent of a class skill.
People who are starting out deciding to heal need to be able to heal players...its that simple. Buffing players is nice if you're keeping them alive but literally absent of CPs I've never healed or been in a group dungeon with a healer who solely used the restoration staff and was able to keep player alive.

Sure some may contribute to players faults but largely its a situation where players heath were constantly below 75% or more for longer than 10 seconds minute after minute.

AlnilamE · September 2016

No changes should not occur

OK. Have you ever been able to save someone who's at 20% health by applying Force Siphon to a target and having them hit it? Because I would never try that.
And if you are soloing and you are just starting resto staff, if you get in trouble, you need heals NOW, not in 1.2 seconds after you cast Force Siphon on something and then did damage to it.

Grand Healing (and Healing Springs as my favoured morph) allows me to target a specific player or players and make sure they get the heal they need when they need it. They may not even be in a position to do damage because they are stunned or are subject to a mechanic that doesn't allow them to do damage at that moment. So while Force Siphon is ok to provide some heal over time, it will never work effectively as your "oh sh*t" button.

In a low level group setting, Grand Healing will get you through most of everything. Backed up by Regeneration and Combat Prayer (I forget what the base skill is called) you are golden. Healing Ward is a good skill for non-Templar healers in more challenging content, and Force Siphon is a "nice to have". I mostly use Siphon Spirit to help Magicka DPS with sustain or to mark which of a number of targets the group should be working on at that moment.

Apart from that, leveling resto staff is not that hard and you would likely be able to get Force Siphon before you got through all the normal dungeons anyway.

NewBlacksmurf · September 2016

Yes, changes should occur

AlnilamE wrote: »

OK. Have you ever been able to save someone who's at 20% health by applying Force Siphon to a target and having them hit it? Because I would never try that.
And if you are soloing and you are just starting resto staff, if you get in trouble, you need heals NOW, not in 1.2 seconds after you cast Force Siphon on something and then did damage to it.

Grand Healing (and Healing Springs as my favoured morph) allows me to target a specific player or players and make sure they get the heal they need when they need it. They may not even be in a position to do damage because they are stunned or are subject to a mechanic that doesn't allow them to do damage at that moment. So while Force Siphon is ok to provide some heal over time, it will never work effectively as your "oh sh*t" button.

In a low level group setting, Grand Healing will get you through most of everything. Backed up by Regeneration and Combat Prayer (I forget what the base skill is called) you are golden. Healing Ward is a good skill for non-Templar healers in more challenging content, and Force Siphon is a "nice to have". I mostly use Siphon Spirit to help Magicka DPS with sustain or to mark which of a number of targets the group should be working on at that moment.

Apart from that, leveling resto staff is not that hard and you would likely be able to get Force Siphon before you got through all the normal dungeons anyway.

@AlnilamE

Please refer to my Force Syphon suggestion:
1. Force Siphon should be the very first basic skill unlocked. I believe they should add a low DoT to it and increase the HoT amount and % to other players. (A glow or some added effect over the target would help players see this is the target to attack to get healing)

There is no such thing as a low level group setting....thats the whole point. Its scaled to CP160 or you just don't do it cause you're new in most cases or if experienced your group would have much higher players....understand this is update 12 and beyond.

AlnilamE · September 2016

No changes should not occur

Sorry, maybe I should have said "starter level group dungeons", since the mechanics in the lower tier dungeons are simpler than in the higher tiers.

Also, I don't agree that any Healing staff skills should do damage no matter how low. And again, even with your suggestion, Force Siphon would only heal if the player is attacking the target.

NewBlacksmurf · September 2016

Yes, changes should occur

AlnilamE wrote: »

Sorry, maybe I should have said "starter level group dungeons", since the mechanics in the lower tier dungeons are simpler than in the higher tiers.

Also, I don't agree that any Healing staff skills should do damage no matter how low. And again, even with your suggestion, Force Siphon would only heal if the player is attacking the target.

@AlnilamE
Can you explain a situation where a player level 2 or 3 - 10 is not attacking the target?
Again...the first unlocked skill now literally does little to nothing for a player starting this tree out alone and there is no logic to them first using this in a group. There has to be a DPS aspect as again, its the first unlocked skill and if it doesn't add DMG and you rely solely on the weapon dmg alone, we haven't offered a solution.

People don't heal with this until much later in the game...thats an opportunity for improvement.

AlnilamE · September 2016

No changes should not occur

They are stunned or being knocked about, maneuvering to stay out of red (hopefully)?

And players do have class skills they can draw from. But unless they are a Templar, none of those class skills at low level will give them an emergency heal. Grand Healing does.

So why would someone rely solely on weapon skills to do damage? I've played all four classes and I've never done that.

Chew_Magna · September 2016

Yes, changes should occur

Force Siphon does need a rework, it's practically useless. Other than that I just want Regeneration and it's morphs fixed. I'm tired of spamming it 20 times so that it finally hits all 4 group members. As for the ult? Meh. I'm a NB so I already have an ult that can burst heal the whole group from 5% to full.

NewBlacksmurf · September 2016

Yes, changes should occur

AlnilamE wrote: »

They are stunned or being knocked about, maneuvering to stay out of red (hopefully)?

And players do have class skills they can draw from. But unless they are a Templar, none of those class skills at low level will give them an emergency heal. Grand Healing does.

So why would someone rely solely on weapon skills to do damage? I've played all four classes and I've never done that.

@AlnilamE
Are you a healer as a primary role?
Players in group content levels 10-40 typically expect you to heal them. The OH crap skill should not be used as a replacement for a lack of healing from the healer. That's what causes hearts to be kicked.

Grand healing is not an emergency heal. It's a HoT.
Blessing of protection after a morph might fit but....it needs a morph and so does regeneration.

Also note as the comment just made points out that most of the healing staff skills are largely in effective.
There is definately ample opportunity to change the entire line for better effectiveness. Perhaps some skills just need to be removed entirely and replaced.

Rykmaar · September 2016

Yes, changes should occur

Healing in this game is broken beyond belief.

One class gets a solid, usable heal. (design decision, I can live with that)

The problem is that the other classes are forced to use resto staves and resto staves are insufficient to keep people alive efficiently.

Rally+vigor outheal resto.

Let me say that again.

Two stamina-based heals (lol) outheal a weapon line that is specifically intended to heal.

In other games, players have to time CCs and interrupts kill healers. Not in ESO. You can one button someone to death (unless its a temp because of BoL -- but even then, poisons make it easy).

That is just poor, poor design and it breaks the game. I'm not saying I want a nerf to stamina, I don't. I'm saying that ZoS has failed (or doesn't know) how to balance stamina and magicka gameplay.

Rykmaar · September 2016

Yes, changes should occur

delete. I'm logging off, don't want whatever is causing this spam to continue. Sorry mods.

Rykmaar · September 2016

Yes, changes should occur

delete pls

Rykmaar · September 2016

Yes, changes should occur

delete..... this forum sometimes.

Rykmaar · September 2016

Yes, changes should occur

okay, i don't know why its multiplying my posts. Help mods...

Oakmontowls_ESO · September 2016

No changes should not occur

Grand healing is more than enough to keep a group healed up at any level. If anything moving force siphon to the first skill would hurt low level resto staff healers because they will have no way of directly healing.

NewBlacksmurf · September 2016

Yes, changes should occur

Oakmontowls_ESO wrote: »

Grand healing is more than enough to keep a group healed up at any level. If anything moving force siphon to the first skill would hurt low level resto staff healers because they will have no way of directly healing.

It helps and doesn't hurt as by the time you are at level you'll have two skills. Difference is my suggestion are better than direct heals that exist on this weapon.

Not that my ideas are the best but as is, the skills are not adequate which is why ppl don't heal as a restore staff spec only prior to level 35-40 effectively.

lucky_Sage · September 2016

Yes, changes should occur

I would like the ult to give a lowcost burst heal
and fix rapid regen and give more utility to it like buffing team with major expedition or something
nf force syphon should be reworked

Xvorg · September 2016

This line has 2 good skills (healing ward and combat prayer) 2 meh (healing springs and rapid) and the rest just bad skills (Mutagen should purge always, blessing of restoration provides 2 bad buffs, illustrious is just 1 second extra duration, better to give a heaking ward, ward ally should give something to the caster magicka?) instead of the shield... and syphons is just crap.

In the case of syphon, I'd even double its cost, but giving minor lifestyles (xD) to all allies in 10 mts radius.

AlnilamE · September 2016

No changes should not occur

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

AlnilamE wrote: »

They are stunned or being knocked about, maneuvering to stay out of red (hopefully)?

And players do have class skills they can draw from. But unless they are a Templar, none of those class skills at low level will give them an emergency heal. Grand Healing does.

So why would someone rely solely on weapon skills to do damage? I've played all four classes and I've never done that.

@AlnilamE
Are you a healer as a primary role?
Players in group content levels 10-40 typically expect you to heal them. The OH crap skill should not be used as a replacement for a lack of healing from the healer. That's what causes hearts to be kicked.

Grand healing is not an emergency heal. It's a HoT.
Blessing of protection after a morph might fit but....it needs a morph and so does regeneration.

Also note as the comment just made points out that most of the healing staff skills are largely in effective.
There is definately ample opportunity to change the entire line for better effectiveness. Perhaps some skills just need to be removed entirely and replaced.

I didn't mean that the other players should have a self heal. I meant that the healer should have a burst heal for emergencies. However, Grand Healing does a better job at keeping people healed than Force Siphon would. It also stacks on itself, which means you can keep your group alive in fights where the boss has a big AoE or Channel attack.

I heal dungeons and trials on a Nightblade, Templar and to a lesser extent, sorc. If I'm going to PUG, I'll mostly do it as a healer, if not, then tank. Unless I'm healing a group that has Magicka DPS that are starved for resources, I mostly don't use Siphon Spirit, and even then, Ele Drain or Orbs would probably be better.

You obviously have a different style of healing than I do. It's a pity you are not on PC. It would be interesting to run a group with you and see how it goes.

Autolycus · September 2016

Yes, but only for the ultimate

There is nothing wrong with resto staff. The biggest complaint I've ever seen for resto staff (or personally had) was with smart targeting for mutagen, and even that is something easily gotten used to.

I am overtly opposed to any changes to the resto staff skill line except for:
1. A resto staff ultimate that does something other than heal. There's enough overhealing as it is. Give us a buff or something; enough with the pointless extra heals. When we have health pools greater than 20-30k and things start hitting as hard as the Warrior on HM, then we might have a use for a healing ult, but probably not.
2. Siphon Spirit should scale up in the magicka return at each rank, not the healing for hitting a siphoned target. Again, with the pointless overheals.

Literally everything in this game can be healed with Healing Springs, Healing Ward, and Combat Prayer.

kargen27 · September 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

2. The restoration staff especially at levels 3-25 need to provide very effective healing, absent of a class skill.
People who are starting out deciding to heal need to be able to heal players...its that simple. Buffing players is nice if you're keeping them alive but literally absent of CPs I've never healed or been in a group dungeon with a healer who solely used the restoration staff and was able to keep player alive.

Sure some may contribute to players faults but largely its a situation where players heath were constantly below 75% or more for longer than 10 seconds minute after minute.

My personal opinion is no skill below level 25 should be "very effective". Lower levels you should struggle with almost everything you do while you learn your skills.

I'm not sure I know of any build be it DPS, Tank or Healer that relies entirely on one skill line only. Most get two bars going as soon as they get to 15.

I can keep a group up and alive with only healing springs and combat prayer if I want to for most pledges, and if they have their own shields it is easy. Depending on the battle though I want to help with AoE DoT and buffs when I have the resources to spare. That doesn't really matter though for this conversation. I do remember struggling early in the game with my first healer especially until I got to level 15 and could start a skill line with some kick to it. Didn't help my first healer was a DK (turned him into a tank through respec) and was a race more suited for stamina than magicka. I died a lot, cursed a lot and eventually kind of figured things out. My 2nd attempt as a healer went much smoother but I still struggled in the lower levels. Wouldn't change that though because that made me concentrate on getting things right. Had I been able to just blaze through I might not have been ready for end game when I got there.

NewBlacksmurf · September 2016

Yes, changes should occur

kargen27 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

2. The restoration staff especially at levels 3-25 need to provide very effective healing, absent of a class skill.
People who are starting out deciding to heal need to be able to heal players...its that simple. Buffing players is nice if you're keeping them alive but literally absent of CPs I've never healed or been in a group dungeon with a healer who solely used the restoration staff and was able to keep player alive.

Sure some may contribute to players faults but largely its a situation where players heath were constantly below 75% or more for longer than 10 seconds minute after minute.

My personal opinion is no skill below level 25 should be "very effective". Lower levels you should struggle with almost everything you do while you learn your skills.

I'm not sure I know of any build be it DPS, Tank or Healer that relies entirely on one skill line only. Most get two bars going as soon as they get to 15.

I can keep a group up and alive with only healing springs and combat prayer if I want to for most pledges, and if they have their own shields it is easy. Depending on the battle though I want to help with AoE DoT and buffs when I have the resources to spare. That doesn't really matter though for this conversation. I do remember struggling early in the game with my first healer especially until I got to level 15 and could start a skill line with some kick to it. Didn't help my first healer was a DK (turned him into a tank through respec) and was a race more suited for stamina than magicka. I died a lot, cursed a lot and eventually kind of figured things out. My 2nd attempt as a healer went much smoother but I still struggled in the lower levels. Wouldn't change that though because that made me concentrate on getting things right. Had I been able to just blaze through I might not have been ready for end game when I got there.

I don't think you get th context. As of update 12....everyone is playing PvE together moreso than now.
If ur on PC, jump on PTS and play a new character 10-35 and maybe it will make sense.

It shouldn't be that the first three skills (u suggested level 25) aren't viable.

GrumpyDuckling · September 2016

Regeneration NEEDS to be fixed. I'm sick of it targeting the same two players all the time.

Silver_Strider · September 2016

Yes, but only for the ultimate

I'm generally alright with how Resto staff currently is but that Ultimate needs a lot of love.
A Single target burst heal is practically useless except in solo instances and even then I'd rather use an Ultimate that kills things than one that will overheal me as killing something is the best form of mitigation.

Make it hit 4 targets minimum and it would worth slotting in group settings, at least. Change the Life Giver Morph to not be a gigantic overheal that no one needs but something actually useful, like a Resurrection Ability.

The Elder Scrolls Online

The restoration staff (Healing staff) skills need some adjustments (Poll)

The restoration staff (Healing staff) skills need some adjustments (Poll) 42 votes