Buff Sorcs 2016

NotPhobia · March 2016

As many of you know , sorcs are very underpowered , the wards are just to weak , maybe make hardened ward absorb more damage and make streak a heal.
Let me know what you guys think.

acw37162 · March 2016

Somewhere there is bridge that is very very lonely where kids are crossing, jumping, and skipping with impunity.

Alcast · March 2016

NotPhobia wrote: »

As many of you know , sorcs are very underpowered , the wards are just to weak , maybe make hardened ward absorb more damage and make streak a heal.
Let me know what you guys think.

Are you not a Mag DK?

Force-Siphon · March 2016

Mmmmm tell me more

raasdal · March 2016

How about making Frags grant empower? Oh, of course they should not be reflectable either.

Hardened Ward should also apply a big aoe damage when it ends, like the templar shield. And it should be cheaper as well.

Bfish22090 · March 2016

i agree. #makesorcsgreatagain
hardened ward needs a buff
need to have some sort of ulti gen passive like nbs soul harvest
streak cost reduction needs to be reverted to 1.5
surge needs to have the GCD removed
summons need to be made so you only have to have them slotted on one bar
@XEVENEX waht do you think?

Emma_Overload · March 2016

I don't know why people think this is a joke. There are whole classes that are practically unkillable by Sorcs if they are played right. I hear complaints all the time about Overload and Frags, but magicka DKs can reflect them all day... Jesus, I've even been killed by my own Overload! And what about all those stamina builds that can roll dodge whenever they want? Even the so-called "instant" Frags can be dodged. That's crap!

Sorcs have been struggling for the last year with the worst nerfs ever inflicted in an MMO, especially the Surge cooldown and the EXPONENTIALLY increasing cost of Bolt Escape. We are way overdue for some buffs... and I mean REAL buffs, not those summoned pets ZOS keeps trying to push. How about an instant damage spell like Surprise Attack we can spam until Frags procs? How about a Stamina morph of Hardened Ward so Stam Sorcs can stay alive longer than 2 seconds? How about making hard cast Frags uninterruptable so it can compete with Wrecking Blow? How about rebalancing (or removing) Impenetrable so Sorcs can actually Surge heal in PvP? Don't even get me started talking about the Shield Breaker set.....

You guys can joke all you want, but if you actually played a Sorc, you would know how many pain points we suffer as a class.

Lexxypwns · March 2016

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

I don't know why people think this is a joke. There are whole classes that are practically unkillable by Sorcs if they are played right. I hear complaints all the time about Overload and Frags, but magicka DKs can reflect them all day... Jesus, I've even been killed by my own Overload! And what about all those stamina builds that can roll dodge whenever they want? Even the so-called "instant" Frags can be dodged. That's crap!

Sorcs have been struggling for the last year with the worst nerfs ever inflicted in an MMO, especially the Surge cooldown and the EXPONENTIALLY increasing cost of Bolt Escape. We are way overdue for some buffs... and I mean REAL buffs, not those summoned pets ZOS keeps trying to push. How about an instant damage spell like Surprise Attack we can spam until Frags procs? How about a Stamina morph of Hardened Ward so Stam Sorcs can stay alive longer than 2 seconds? How about making hard cast Frags uninterruptable so it can compete with Wrecking Blow? How about rebalancing (or removing) Impenetrable so Sorcs can actually Surge heal in PvP? Don't even get me started talking about the Shield Breaker set.....

You guys can joke all you want, but if you actually played a Sorc, you would know how many pain points we suffer as a class.

[snip]

All jokes aside, I'll explain how to counter both of the things you're complaining about, using abilities available and already on every sorcs bars

Mag DK: Magika DK has always been a very strong dueling class and they are the most difficult class to fight as a sorc, however, since they lack strong burst they're unlikely to kill you open world without reflecting your own damage abilities at you. I'll just list all the skills in the sorc toolkit (yes, they aren't all class skills) that can not be reflected. Curse, endless fury, proxy det, mines, meteor, entropy, dawnbreaker. While those abilities alone aren't going to burst down a mag DK, they will maintain heavy pressure, at which point you're just waiting on a slip up with wings. What I do is, set up my burst, watch for wings, if they're up, count to 3, streak for cc, immediately turn and frag. Also, you can just light attack with harness up, restore your resources on his wings then set up for a frag in a similar way to what I mentioned before. It is by no means an easy task to take down a good mag DK, but you still have the mathematical advantage.

Dodge Rollers: Curse, wrath, proc'ed frag, streak. Since streak is an aoe CC you can use it CC the roller in the middle of a roll, allowing your frag to hit them, removing any counter for your burst.

Mag sorc is currently the strongest class/main stat combo in the game, if you're having trouble with it in the current meta you're likely just not a very skilled player

Sorcs arguably received the biggest buffs this patch out of all classes in thieves guild patch, due to changes in ele expert/thaumaturge

Edit: just to clarify, I main a magika sorc and use the above tactics every single day

[edit to remove bait]

Waffennacht · March 2016

I do not believe we need a buff, nor do we need a nerf

Fyi Pets be PvE gods, and viable PvP. Maybe ill post some vids... fyi nothing is more awesome than a dk tryin to LoS you while your familiar kills him behind the tree.

leepalmer95 · March 2016

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Sorc are currently the strongest class in the game.

Frag is a range skill, wb is not.

You want to remove impen, sure you would considering shields can't be crit. How about impen goes if we can crit shields?

Big wow mag dk's can reflect you1 skill, it's not like you have plenty of others to use, curse/det/fury/ and heavy dot like lightning/resto.

The fact overload provides a 3rd bar already makes it super OP, nevermind the fact you can spam stupidly high ult's for 15 ult per cost... every other class pays like 150 ult for that dmg, you can toggle your and use 15. Overload needs a cost increase.

If you die to your own overload your a bad sorc. Thats all there is too it.

The sorc class isn't based around 'instant high dps' it's about burst, hence why there skills have proc's and timers.

Your complaing that attacks can be dodged.... i don't have anything for that comment i'm just amazed.

[snip]

[edited to remove quote and bait]

cdobratz · March 2016

Yes lets make overload unreflectable, streak now has knock back, cfrags ingnores 100% of an enemy players armor, power surge now heals for 85% of all damage done, no cast time on twilight matriarch. #MAKEESOGREATAGAIN

ZOS_CoriJ · March 2016

We have removed a handful of nonconstructive/bashing imagery from this post. Please keep responses constructive and relevant to the conversation.

FriedEggSandwich · March 2016

ZOS_CoriJ wrote: »

We have removed a handful of nonconstructive/bashing imagery from this post. Please keep responses constructive and relevant to the conversation.

So soon? It's only the 1st page.

Jhunn · March 2016

ZOS_CoriJ wrote: »

We have removed a handful of nonconstructive/bashing imagery from this post. Please keep responses constructive and relevant to the conversation.

Aw Cori. I think my GIF was spot on and pretty relevant.

Emma_Overload · March 2016

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

I don't know why people think this is a joke. There are whole classes that are practically unkillable by Sorcs if they are played right. I hear complaints all the time about Overload and Frags, but magicka DKs can reflect them all day... Jesus, I've even been killed by my own Overload! And what about all those stamina builds that can roll dodge whenever they want? Even the so-called "instant" Frags can be dodged. That's crap!

Sorcs have been struggling for the last year with the worst nerfs ever inflicted in an MMO, especially the Surge cooldown and the EXPONENTIALLY increasing cost of Bolt Escape. We are way overdue for some buffs... and I mean REAL buffs, not those summoned pets ZOS keeps trying to push. How about an instant damage spell like Surprise Attack we can spam until Frags procs? How about a Stamina morph of Hardened Ward so Stam Sorcs can stay alive longer than 2 seconds? How about making hard cast Frags uninterruptable so it can compete with Wrecking Blow? How about rebalancing (or removing) Impenetrable so Sorcs can actually Surge heal in PvP? Don't even get me started talking about the Shield Breaker set.....

You guys can joke all you want, but if you actually played a Sorc, you would know how many pain points we suffer as a class.

[snip]

All jokes aside, I'll explain how to counter both of the things you're complaining about, using abilities available and already on every sorcs bars

Mag DK: Magika DK has always been a very strong dueling class and they are the most difficult class to fight as a sorc, however, since they lack strong burst they're unlikely to kill you open world without reflecting your own damage abilities at you. I'll just list all the skills in the sorc toolkit (yes, they aren't all class skills) that can not be reflected. Curse, endless fury, proxy det, mines, meteor, entropy, dawnbreaker. While those abilities alone aren't going to burst down a mag DK, they will maintain heavy pressure, at which point you're just waiting on a slip up with wings. What I do is, set up my burst, watch for wings, if they're up, count to 3, streak for cc, immediately turn and frag. Also, you can just light attack with harness up, restore your resources on his wings then set up for a frag in a similar way to what I mentioned before. It is by no means an easy task to take down a good mag DK, but you still have the mathematical advantage.

Dodge Rollers: Curse, wrath, proc'ed frag, streak. Since streak is an aoe CC you can use it CC the roller in the middle of a roll, allowing your frag to hit them, removing any counter for your burst.

Mag sorc is currently the strongest class/main stat combo in the game, if you're having trouble with it in the current meta you're likely just not a very skilled player

Sorcs arguably received the biggest buffs this patch out of all classes in thieves guild patch, due to changes in ele expert/thaumaturge

Edit: just to clarify, I main a magika sorc and use the above tactics every single day

[edit to remove bait]

I do some of the things you're talking about, and sometimes they work, but there are plenty of times where the classic Sorc rotations just fall apart. The key word you mentioned was "pressure", and I often find that I'm the one being pressured, not the other way around. There are number of reasons for this. Since I'm mostly a PvE sewer grinder, not a PvP oriented player, I'm usually caught by surprise out of stealth, for one thing. That means my Ward is probably wiped, and I might even be down to half health before I even know what happened. Secondly, I'm always vulnerable to CC and knockdowns, so my "rotation" is always interrupted by the need to break free and refresh wards. Thirdly, I don't always have Curse slotted, which you pointed out is useful against DKs, because I've got things like Impulse and Lightning Spash slotted instead. Many of the spells that are useful against human players are not useful againts mobs and vice-versa. Finally, because I tend to grind solo, I'm often overwhelmed by attacks from 2 or more players.

When Sorc abilities work, they work great - I'll admit that for sure! But there are situations where playing a Sorc can be a struggle, and they're certainly not invincible the way people talk on the forums. If Sorcs were really that OP, how come I almost never run into them in the sewers? Almost every enemy player I see are Nightblades with some DKs thrown in, too. On those occasions where I do run into an enemy Sorc, my win/lose rate is about 50/50, so I don't think I'm a terrible player. I do OK against the other classes, too, but the outcomes of those fights are greatly dependent on the circumstances, in my experience.

Kalebron · March 2016

Personally I feel like the damage I currently have is on par with my sorc. I also acknowledge that I cannot take a hit like I used too, which turns out, now I am like everyone else. I think it is a leveled playing zone. The damage has gone up on every class which makes it pretty balanced and I don't think many sorcs have thought about what extra damage will do. I don't think the shield is weaker, I think the players are stronger as a result of the champion point changes.

catalyst10e · March 2016

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

I don't know why people think this is a joke. There are whole classes that are practically unkillable by Sorcs if they are played right. I hear complaints all the time about Overload and Frags, but magicka DKs can reflect them all day... Jesus, I've even been killed by my own Overload! And what about all those stamina builds that can roll dodge whenever they want? Even the so-called "instant" Frags can be dodged. That's crap!

Sorcs have been struggling for the last year with the worst nerfs ever inflicted in an MMO, especially the Surge cooldown and the EXPONENTIALLY increasing cost of Bolt Escape. We are way overdue for some buffs... and I mean REAL buffs, not those summoned pets ZOS keeps trying to push. How about an instant damage spell like Surprise Attack we can spam until Frags procs? How about a Stamina morph of Hardened Ward so Stam Sorcs can stay alive longer than 2 seconds? How about making hard cast Frags uninterruptable so it can compete with Wrecking Blow? How about rebalancing (or removing) Impenetrable so Sorcs can actually Surge heal in PvP? Don't even get me started talking about the Shield Breaker set.....

You guys can joke all you want, but if you actually played a Sorc, you would know how many pain points we suffer as a class.

[snip]

All jokes aside, I'll explain how to counter both of the things you're complaining about, using abilities available and already on every sorcs bars

Mag DK: Magika DK has always been a very strong dueling class and they are the most difficult class to fight as a sorc, however, since they lack strong burst they're unlikely to kill you open world without reflecting your own damage abilities at you. I'll just list all the skills in the sorc toolkit (yes, they aren't all class skills) that can not be reflected. Curse, endless fury, proxy det, mines, meteor, entropy, dawnbreaker. While those abilities alone aren't going to burst down a mag DK, they will maintain heavy pressure, at which point you're just waiting on a slip up with wings. What I do is, set up my burst, watch for wings, if they're up, count to 3, streak for cc, immediately turn and frag. Also, you can just light attack with harness up, restore your resources on his wings then set up for a frag in a similar way to what I mentioned before. It is by no means an easy task to take down a good mag DK, but you still have the mathematical advantage.

Dodge Rollers: Curse, wrath, proc'ed frag, streak. Since streak is an aoe CC you can use it CC the roller in the middle of a roll, allowing your frag to hit them, removing any counter for your burst.

Mag sorc is currently the strongest class/main stat combo in the game, if you're having trouble with it in the current meta you're likely just not a very skilled player

Sorcs arguably received the biggest buffs this patch out of all classes in thieves guild patch, due to changes in ele expert/thaumaturge

Edit: just to clarify, I main a magika sorc and use the above tactics every single day

[edit to remove bait]

I do some of the things you're talking about, and sometimes they work, but there are plenty of times where the classic Sorc rotations just fall apart. The key word you mentioned was "pressure", and I often find that I'm the one being pressured, not the other way around. There are number of reasons for this. Since I'm mostly a PvE sewer grinder, not a PvP oriented player, I'm usually caught by surprise out of stealth, for one thing. That means my Ward is probably wiped, and I might even be down to half health before I even know what happened. Secondly, I'm always vulnerable to CC and knockdowns, so my "rotation" is always interrupted by the need to break free and refresh wards. Thirdly, I don't always have Curse slotted, which you pointed out is useful against DKs, because I've got things like Impulse and Lightning Spash slotted instead. Many of the spells that are useful against human players are not useful againts mobs and vice-versa. Finally, because I tend to grind solo, I'm often overwhelmed by attacks from 2 or more players.

When Sorc abilities work, they work great - I'll admit that for sure! But there are situations where playing a Sorc can be a struggle, and they're certainly not invincible the way people talk on the forums. If Sorcs were really that OP, how come I almost never run into them in the sewers? Almost every enemy player I see are Nightblades with some DKs thrown in, too. On those occasions where I do run into an enemy Sorc, my win/lose rate is about 50/50, so I don't think I'm a terrible player. I do OK against the other classes, too, but the outcomes of those fights are greatly dependent on the circumstances, in my experience.

To point out, you're mostly a PVE sewer grinder, not a PVP oriented player, so of course you're going to have some trouble. (which is fine, I can't really do dungeons myself, we all have our strengths) If you'd like to improve or get some practice in, jump into the Arena district. It;s just a constant fight there. I go there all the time to test skills and tactics. Just last night I was able to toss down Daedric tomb (love that instant cast) and let the WB spamming DK walk right into them when he was trying to hit me. It's like a 10k mine each hit their willingly walking into. Count to 4 out loud toss an overload (which usually prompts them to recast) recast your mines count again toss another overload their dead. (you can also utilize volcanic rune for added fun) Another option is to waste away their stamina with restraining prison and streak. CC them into a position where they can't react drop meteor and frags.

The scenario you describe in the sewers is more of a gank which can be hard for anyone to get away from but it doesn't mean we're nerfed. We're in a pretty good position right now as far as PVP is concerned. You could slot defense rune if it's continuously an issue it'll give them their initial hit but it'll give you enough time to streak some distance or recast shields.

FriedEggSandwich · March 2016

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

I don't know why people think this is a joke. There are whole classes that are practically unkillable by Sorcs if they are played right. I hear complaints all the time about Overload and Frags, but magicka DKs can reflect them all day... Jesus, I've even been killed by my own Overload! And what about all those stamina builds that can roll dodge whenever they want? Even the so-called "instant" Frags can be dodged. That's crap!

Sorcs have been struggling for the last year with the worst nerfs ever inflicted in an MMO, especially the Surge cooldown and the EXPONENTIALLY increasing cost of Bolt Escape. We are way overdue for some buffs... and I mean REAL buffs, not those summoned pets ZOS keeps trying to push. How about an instant damage spell like Surprise Attack we can spam until Frags procs? How about a Stamina morph of Hardened Ward so Stam Sorcs can stay alive longer than 2 seconds? How about making hard cast Frags uninterruptable so it can compete with Wrecking Blow? How about rebalancing (or removing) Impenetrable so Sorcs can actually Surge heal in PvP? Don't even get me started talking about the Shield Breaker set.....

You guys can joke all you want, but if you actually played a Sorc, you would know how many pain points we suffer as a class.

[snip]

All jokes aside, I'll explain how to counter both of the things you're complaining about, using abilities available and already on every sorcs bars

Mag DK: Magika DK has always been a very strong dueling class and they are the most difficult class to fight as a sorc, however, since they lack strong burst they're unlikely to kill you open world without reflecting your own damage abilities at you. I'll just list all the skills in the sorc toolkit (yes, they aren't all class skills) that can not be reflected. Curse, endless fury, proxy det, mines, meteor, entropy, dawnbreaker. While those abilities alone aren't going to burst down a mag DK, they will maintain heavy pressure, at which point you're just waiting on a slip up with wings. What I do is, set up my burst, watch for wings, if they're up, count to 3, streak for cc, immediately turn and frag. Also, you can just light attack with harness up, restore your resources on his wings then set up for a frag in a similar way to what I mentioned before. It is by no means an easy task to take down a good mag DK, but you still have the mathematical advantage.

Dodge Rollers: Curse, wrath, proc'ed frag, streak. Since streak is an aoe CC you can use it CC the roller in the middle of a roll, allowing your frag to hit them, removing any counter for your burst.

Mag sorc is currently the strongest class/main stat combo in the game, if you're having trouble with it in the current meta you're likely just not a very skilled player

Sorcs arguably received the biggest buffs this patch out of all classes in thieves guild patch, due to changes in ele expert/thaumaturge

Edit: just to clarify, I main a magika sorc and use the above tactics every single day

[edit to remove bait]

I do some of the things you're talking about, and sometimes they work, but there are plenty of times where the classic Sorc rotations just fall apart. The key word you mentioned was "pressure", and I often find that I'm the one being pressured, not the other way around. There are number of reasons for this. Since I'm mostly a PvE sewer grinder, not a PvP oriented player, I'm usually caught by surprise out of stealth, for one thing. That means my Ward is probably wiped, and I might even be down to half health before I even know what happened. Secondly, I'm always vulnerable to CC and knockdowns, so my "rotation" is always interrupted by the need to break free and refresh wards. Thirdly, I don't always have Curse slotted, which you pointed out is useful against DKs, because I've got things like Impulse and Lightning Spash slotted instead. Many of the spells that are useful against human players are not useful againts mobs and vice-versa. Finally, because I tend to grind solo, I'm often overwhelmed by attacks from 2 or more players.

When Sorc abilities work, they work great - I'll admit that for sure! But there are situations where playing a Sorc can be a struggle, and they're certainly not invincible the way people talk on the forums. If Sorcs were really that OP, how come I almost never run into them in the sewers? Almost every enemy player I see are Nightblades with some DKs thrown in, too. On those occasions where I do run into an enemy Sorc, my win/lose rate is about 50/50, so I don't think I'm a terrible player. I do OK against the other classes, too, but the outcomes of those fights are greatly dependent on the circumstances, in my experience.

Whenever I go to the sewers to grind I do it with full pvp setup and pull small groups of mobs. My guild mate gets annoyed cos I refuse to slot pulsar. It's slightly less efficient for sure but it means that when you do get ganked you have more chance of survival. The problem with pulling large groups of mobs is you create chaos and potentially put yourself on the back foot making it easier for a ganker to take advantage of you. And the problem with slotting aoe grinding skills like pulsar is, as you pointed out, they are pretty useless against players trying to kill you. You're better off with curse or mines or even defensive rune. Daedric Minefield is actually pretty good for grinding small groups of mobs anyway; run into the middle of them, animation cancel mines with a dodge roll and then streak back through them to give the mines time to arm. You can repeat this assuming the mobs remain grouped up.

As you also pointed out; sorcs do have a disadvantage in the sewers as they need space to fight. This is why I think it's important to help yourself out by preparing to fight players and not mobs.

Edit: Atronach can be pretty handy in the sewers for taking the agro of mobs so you can focus on potential enemy players.

catalyst10e · March 2016

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

I don't know why people think this is a joke. There are whole classes that are practically unkillable by Sorcs if they are played right. I hear complaints all the time about Overload and Frags, but magicka DKs can reflect them all day... Jesus, I've even been killed by my own Overload! And what about all those stamina builds that can roll dodge whenever they want? Even the so-called "instant" Frags can be dodged. That's crap!

Sorcs have been struggling for the last year with the worst nerfs ever inflicted in an MMO, especially the Surge cooldown and the EXPONENTIALLY increasing cost of Bolt Escape. We are way overdue for some buffs... and I mean REAL buffs, not those summoned pets ZOS keeps trying to push. How about an instant damage spell like Surprise Attack we can spam until Frags procs? How about a Stamina morph of Hardened Ward so Stam Sorcs can stay alive longer than 2 seconds? How about making hard cast Frags uninterruptable so it can compete with Wrecking Blow? How about rebalancing (or removing) Impenetrable so Sorcs can actually Surge heal in PvP? Don't even get me started talking about the Shield Breaker set.....

You guys can joke all you want, but if you actually played a Sorc, you would know how many pain points we suffer as a class.

[snip]

All jokes aside, I'll explain how to counter both of the things you're complaining about, using abilities available and already on every sorcs bars

Mag DK: Magika DK has always been a very strong dueling class and they are the most difficult class to fight as a sorc, however, since they lack strong burst they're unlikely to kill you open world without reflecting your own damage abilities at you. I'll just list all the skills in the sorc toolkit (yes, they aren't all class skills) that can not be reflected. Curse, endless fury, proxy det, mines, meteor, entropy, dawnbreaker. While those abilities alone aren't going to burst down a mag DK, they will maintain heavy pressure, at which point you're just waiting on a slip up with wings. What I do is, set up my burst, watch for wings, if they're up, count to 3, streak for cc, immediately turn and frag. Also, you can just light attack with harness up, restore your resources on his wings then set up for a frag in a similar way to what I mentioned before. It is by no means an easy task to take down a good mag DK, but you still have the mathematical advantage.

Dodge Rollers: Curse, wrath, proc'ed frag, streak. Since streak is an aoe CC you can use it CC the roller in the middle of a roll, allowing your frag to hit them, removing any counter for your burst.

Mag sorc is currently the strongest class/main stat combo in the game, if you're having trouble with it in the current meta you're likely just not a very skilled player

Sorcs arguably received the biggest buffs this patch out of all classes in thieves guild patch, due to changes in ele expert/thaumaturge

Edit: just to clarify, I main a magika sorc and use the above tactics every single day

[edit to remove bait]

I do some of the things you're talking about, and sometimes they work, but there are plenty of times where the classic Sorc rotations just fall apart. The key word you mentioned was "pressure", and I often find that I'm the one being pressured, not the other way around. There are number of reasons for this. Since I'm mostly a PvE sewer grinder, not a PvP oriented player, I'm usually caught by surprise out of stealth, for one thing. That means my Ward is probably wiped, and I might even be down to half health before I even know what happened. Secondly, I'm always vulnerable to CC and knockdowns, so my "rotation" is always interrupted by the need to break free and refresh wards. Thirdly, I don't always have Curse slotted, which you pointed out is useful against DKs, because I've got things like Impulse and Lightning Spash slotted instead. Many of the spells that are useful against human players are not useful againts mobs and vice-versa. Finally, because I tend to grind solo, I'm often overwhelmed by attacks from 2 or more players.

When Sorc abilities work, they work great - I'll admit that for sure! But there are situations where playing a Sorc can be a struggle, and they're certainly not invincible the way people talk on the forums. If Sorcs were really that OP, how come I almost never run into them in the sewers? Almost every enemy player I see are Nightblades with some DKs thrown in, too. On those occasions where I do run into an enemy Sorc, my win/lose rate is about 50/50, so I don't think I'm a terrible player. I do OK against the other classes, too, but the outcomes of those fights are greatly dependent on the circumstances, in my experience.

Whenever I go to the sewers to grind I do it with full pvp setup and pull small groups of mobs. My guild mate gets annoyed cos I refuse to slot pulsar. It's slightly less efficient for sure but it means that when you do get ganked you have more chance of survival. The problem with pulling large groups of mobs is you create chaos and potentially put yourself on the back foot making it easier for a ganker to take advantage of you. And the problem with slotting aoe grinding skills like pulsar is, as you pointed out, they are pretty useless against players trying to kill you. You're better off with curse or mines or even defensive rune. Daedric Minefield is actually pretty good for grinding small groups of mobs anyway; run into the middle of them, animation cancel mines with a dodge roll and then streak back through them to give the mines time to arm. You can repeat this assuming the mobs remain grouped up.

As you also pointed out; sorcs do have a disadvantage in the sewers as they need space to fight. This is why I think it's important to help yourself out by preparing to fight players and not mobs.

By the Eight, I do this too, my guildmates get so mad;
"Catalyst why arn't you using pulsar?"
"It's fine I'm just gunna use boundless storm and streak for AOE"
"you'd kill them faster if you'd just slot pulsar"
"when the gank squad appears you'll be singing a different tune"

Also yes Atronach has been a regular in my rotation, specifically for helping with dealing with DKs and other sorcs. His constant attack helps break down shields, and keep pressure, as well as act as a decent LoS obstacle. More often than not, having the atronach appear causes the enemy to push for distance rather than continue their onslaught.

Emma_Overload · March 2016

That's really interesting what you guys are saying about Atronach... I will give that a shot, for sure. Do you guys use the "Charged" version with the AOE?

FriedEggSandwich · March 2016

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

That's really interesting what you guys are saying about Atronach... I will give that a shot, for sure. Do you guys use the "Charged" version with the AOE?

I've always use Greater Storm Atronach for the increased hp and single target damage but I couldn't tell you it was better. Another thing worth keeping in mind is Velociuos Curse is considered a dot so takes damage buffs from elemental expert and thaumaturge. It's worth slotting for sure. Pretty sure the artonachs channel is also a dot and therefore double buffed.

americansteel · March 2016

light armor sorcs are tankier than Heavy armor DKs, frags and OL are OP! And are almost instant cast. get rid of conjured ward-one step closer to balance.
i laugh at players who find the need to hide behing magic shields along side OP DPS moves.

stamplar shield breaker nord- hate mail,

Lexxypwns · March 2016

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

I don't know why people think this is a joke. There are whole classes that are practically unkillable by Sorcs if they are played right. I hear complaints all the time about Overload and Frags, but magicka DKs can reflect them all day... Jesus, I've even been killed by my own Overload! And what about all those stamina builds that can roll dodge whenever they want? Even the so-called "instant" Frags can be dodged. That's crap!

Sorcs have been struggling for the last year with the worst nerfs ever inflicted in an MMO, especially the Surge cooldown and the EXPONENTIALLY increasing cost of Bolt Escape. We are way overdue for some buffs... and I mean REAL buffs, not those summoned pets ZOS keeps trying to push. How about an instant damage spell like Surprise Attack we can spam until Frags procs? How about a Stamina morph of Hardened Ward so Stam Sorcs can stay alive longer than 2 seconds? How about making hard cast Frags uninterruptable so it can compete with Wrecking Blow? How about rebalancing (or removing) Impenetrable so Sorcs can actually Surge heal in PvP? Don't even get me started talking about the Shield Breaker set.....

You guys can joke all you want, but if you actually played a Sorc, you would know how many pain points we suffer as a class.

[snip]

All jokes aside, I'll explain how to counter both of the things you're complaining about, using abilities available and already on every sorcs bars

Mag DK: Magika DK has always been a very strong dueling class and they are the most difficult class to fight as a sorc, however, since they lack strong burst they're unlikely to kill you open world without reflecting your own damage abilities at you. I'll just list all the skills in the sorc toolkit (yes, they aren't all class skills) that can not be reflected. Curse, endless fury, proxy det, mines, meteor, entropy, dawnbreaker. While those abilities alone aren't going to burst down a mag DK, they will maintain heavy pressure, at which point you're just waiting on a slip up with wings. What I do is, set up my burst, watch for wings, if they're up, count to 3, streak for cc, immediately turn and frag. Also, you can just light attack with harness up, restore your resources on his wings then set up for a frag in a similar way to what I mentioned before. It is by no means an easy task to take down a good mag DK, but you still have the mathematical advantage.

Dodge Rollers: Curse, wrath, proc'ed frag, streak. Since streak is an aoe CC you can use it CC the roller in the middle of a roll, allowing your frag to hit them, removing any counter for your burst.

Mag sorc is currently the strongest class/main stat combo in the game, if you're having trouble with it in the current meta you're likely just not a very skilled player

Sorcs arguably received the biggest buffs this patch out of all classes in thieves guild patch, due to changes in ele expert/thaumaturge

Edit: just to clarify, I main a magika sorc and use the above tactics every single day

[edit to remove bait]

I do some of the things you're talking about, and sometimes they work, but there are plenty of times where the classic Sorc rotations just fall apart. The key word you mentioned was "pressure", and I often find that I'm the one being pressured, not the other way around. There are number of reasons for this. Since I'm mostly a PvE sewer grinder, not a PvP oriented player, I'm usually caught by surprise out of stealth, for one thing. That means my Ward is probably wiped, and I might even be down to half health before I even know what happened. Secondly, I'm always vulnerable to CC and knockdowns, so my "rotation" is always interrupted by the need to break free and refresh wards. Thirdly, I don't always have Curse slotted, which you pointed out is useful against DKs, because I've got things like Impulse and Lightning Spash slotted instead. Many of the spells that are useful against human players are not useful againts mobs and vice-versa. Finally, because I tend to grind solo, I'm often overwhelmed by attacks from 2 or more players.

When Sorc abilities work, they work great - I'll admit that for sure! But there are situations where playing a Sorc can be a struggle, and they're certainly not invincible the way people talk on the forums. If Sorcs were really that OP, how come I almost never run into them in the sewers? Almost every enemy player I see are Nightblades with some DKs thrown in, too. On those occasions where I do run into an enemy Sorc, my win/lose rate is about 50/50, so I don't think I'm a terrible player. I do OK against the other classes, too, but the outcomes of those fights are greatly dependent on the circumstances, in my experience.

If you're being pressured its because you have bad positioning, a bad build, a weak skill set, or a poor understanding that the math is in you favor. If you just mash all your dps on ANYONE they will have to stop to react defensively before you do and their defensive options are significantly weaker than yours as a sorc.

Seriously, magika sorc is the strongest build in the game right now for pvp by a large margin. We are the only class that gets to run 7 divines on our armor since we hard counter all crit builds with our primary defensive ability. We have the second best positioning ability in the game, which is also an aoe CC(shadow image is the best, fyi). We have the best area denial in the game, if you're standing in mines and have prox det up then you effectively hard counter all melee builds. We have the highest burst damage as well AND it is all ranged. The idea that sorcs are in any way weak is a complete joke. The only class that benefited nearly as much as we did from the Thieves guild patch is magika templar, with the buffs to dark flare and changes to sweeps to make it snare.

Seriously, magika sorc is so easy right now, the only REAL threat you face is a more skilled player

edit: don't use atronach, its a terrible ultimate in all reality, there's basically no burst from it and it doesn't put out much pressure, it is also totally hard countered by anyone running harness magika (which in the current meta is basically every magika build) AND it can be interrupted and CC'ed, which, despite the improvements in the most recent patch, still renders your ulti useless. With meteor being unreflectable, there's almost no reason not to run it, only NB can counter it these days and it gives you passive bonuses just from being slotted. The ground AoE on meteor does as much damage as your atronach will

catalyst10e · March 2016

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

That's really interesting what you guys are saying about Atronach... I will give that a shot, for sure. Do you guys use the "Charged" version with the AOE?

Greater for me as well, more dependable, and seems to last the entire fight. Bonus, since overload doesnt cost that much ulti, you can usually get 2 or 3 shots off and still have enough to summon the Atronach. (or a meteor if you're inclined).

Lexxypwns · March 2016

@ZOS_CoriJ

Am I understanding correctly that memes are no longer allowed on forums?

DannyLV702 · March 2016

I am sorc, therefore I agree

ZOS_CoriJ · March 2016

@ZOS_CoriJ, Am I understanding correctly that memes are no longer allowed on forums?

There is no rule on the forum rules stating that memes are not allowed on the forums. However, these were gifs and images that were in mockery of quoted content, in some cases with some flamming commentary. When all but three comments on the thread are bashing gifs posted one after another... It was decided that that was excessive.

Minalan · March 2016

@Lexxypwns what's on your bars?

I'd like to hear what you do against a Stam sorc with WB. And is it bad to keep 1-2 pieces of impen on a sorc in case they do manage to drop your shield?

Lexxypwns · March 2016

ZOS_CoriJ wrote: »

@ZOS_CoriJ, Am I understanding correctly that memes are no longer allowed on forums?

There is no rule on the forum rules stating that memes are not allowed on the forums. However, these were gifs and images that were in mockery of quoted content, in some cases with some flamming commentary. When all but three comments on the thread are bashing gifs posted one after another... It was decided that that was excessive.

@ZOS_CoriJ

Kalebron · March 2016

ZOS_CoriJ wrote: »

@ZOS_CoriJ, Am I understanding correctly that memes are no longer allowed on forums?

There is no rule on the forum rules stating that memes are not allowed on the forums. However, these were gifs and images that were in mockery of quoted content, in some cases with some flamming commentary. When all but three comments on the thread are bashing gifs posted one after another... It was decided that that was excessive.

It also appears of bit trollish to do so...

Waffennacht · March 2016

There's a meme generator... omg what has this world come to?!

Anyway...

Bout atronach, I slot him and within 5 minutes I go... "why?" Gees I used him now that NB ran 10 feet over there.... I can't use Overload bar.... gwaaa! 3 Overload LA do more damage than he will ever dream of.... Why? Whyyyyy?!!!!

Then I get rid of him and I is very happy.