ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Also if you're not going to bring constructive posts to this thread please don't post, so far it's been a pretty good back and forth debate with a lot of good feedback that I hope ZOS are reading. (WTB @ZOS_RichLambert /lurk)

We are reading and keeping an eye on this thread, and do appreciate the constructive discussion so far.

/lurk

Counterfeit lurk spotted want @ZOS_RichLambert lurk.

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Also if you're not going to bring constructive posts to this thread please don't post, so far it's been a pretty good back and forth debate with a lot of good feedback that I hope ZOS are reading. (WTB @ZOS_RichLambert /lurk)

We are reading and keeping an eye on this thread, and do appreciate the constructive discussion so far.

/lurk

Gina always comes in for a win. Need more Gina's on the dev team.

More Gina's and more Gina.

Turelus wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Also if you're not going to bring constructive posts to this thread please don't post, so far it's been a pretty good back and forth debate with a lot of good feedback that I hope ZOS are reading. (WTB @ZOS_RichLambert /lurk)

We are reading and keeping an eye on this thread, and do appreciate the constructive discussion so far.

/lurk

Awesome, thanks Gina!

My first reaction when I saw the Z flag was "Damnit, we got moderated" however glad to know our debates and ramblings are being watched.

so true, pictured the @Wrobel Q&A that apparently wasn't a Q&A 45 pages in

dimensional wrote: »

I think one of the best things that ZOS and the combat team could do to help this situation is to provide more immediate relief in terms of balance changes, rather than waiting every quarter for the next DLC to come out to implement those. Why can't the incremental patches include more concrete changes? Games like League of Legends (the most popular, most competitive game on the planet) manages to routinely address balance issues through regular patches. ZOS says they want to take it slow so they don't break the game or muck up other areas, and I do understand that... but surely there is a middle ground here, some sort of compromise that we can reach that will make people happy while also maintaining the integrity of the game? I think if this singular issue is addressed, no matter what kind of changes we see in particular, you will show the community and the players who pay for this game and all of its content that you're listening and are willing to deliver excellent continued support to your game. This to me is probably the most important thing that the developers should consider right now, even more than the content. You can add new DLC all you want and I'm sure people will continue to buy it, but those numbers will dwindle and get smaller and smaller over time as people become disillusioned with the product they bought. Please don't fall into this trap ZOS! We all love ESO here and we want to continue playing this game and supporting you all for years to come.

The middle ground is constantly releasing the changes on the PTS.

We get a feel for how it works and they get closer to live metrics for tweaking.

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

The middle ground is constantly releasing the changes on the PTS.

We get a feel for how it works and they get closer to live metrics for tweaking.

That's a big step forward, but I'd also like to say that actually designing and implementing changes (even if they are collectively smaller) on a regular, bi-weekly schedule would be nice too.

Here is the issue that the ranting haters never get:

Be careful what you wish for, you might get it and it might end up being WORSE.

The rants against the current devs are foolish and mostly lies and gross exaggerations. Most of the "problems" in pvp are actually centered around players abusing the game. The only thing the devs really failed at was taking into account how little the "me me me" generations give a crap about "fair play". It's all about them, and they really don't care what they have to do to achieve their "me"-centric reality.

The downside to the way these forums work is that you can't name and shame... and that's a problem. That's a problem because some of the most visible and arrogant are also those that ought be named and shamed for exploiting the game.

I read the forums... I see the posts. I see people who use every exploit they can talking out their rears at all times. I recently read a "who is the bestest" thread that was full of exploiters claiming the mantle for themselves. Obvious macro abusers and lag exploiters all proudly trying to claim themselves "awesome". At one point the "guaranteed to double fear you guy" and the it doesn't actually matter if you got out of the red circle because my artificial lag I use means it's going to hit you anyways. I see a guy that has to be a speed hacker posting videos and talking smack in every thread he can (if I'm moving at 140% speed and sprinting and you pull away like usain bolt facing a fat guy... I think maybe we have a problem). You have your nightly "can't be killed by any means" guys in game... and they talk smack on the forums. I see exploits so commonly in game it's pretty much laughable. From the rapid fire actions (I r teh animashun cancelar!!!) that can't be reproduced normally to the you can't hit me because of lag types...

Without the bs-artists the combat in the game is pretty good. The only dev issue I have is how they mind boggingly decided to not include a warden system to scan users memory to make sure they aren't cheating (or at least make an attempt at it) and how they designed the animation system in a way that makes it trivial to exploit it with macros and scripts. How many multiple mundus stones exploiters are running around? How many "I permablock and never run out of stamina" guys do you see? These are things that were fixed and now the scum of the earth has just found new ways to exploit them.

I think the devs are aware of the problems with the combat system, but the real problem is how those problems are exasperated by people abusing the game with exploits to make those combat system flaws worse than they actually are.

What makes me furious is when I see someone that is obviously a cheat being celebrated on these forums. I had a point where I would comment on their behavior and even link videos of them doing it. ZOS just removes those things...

Anyways, I see a lot of "you must fix templars" posts as well... then why do I see nothing but templar alts being leveled every where I look?

dimensional wrote: »

I think one of the best things that ZOS and the combat team could do to help this situation is to provide more immediate relief in terms of balance changes, rather than waiting every quarter for the next DLC to come out to implement those. Why can't the incremental patches include more concrete changes? Games like League of Legends (the most popular, most competitive game on the planet) manage to routinely address balance issues through regular patches. ZOS says they want to take it slow so they don't break the game or muck up other areas, and I do understand that... but surely there is a middle ground here, some sort of compromise that we can reach that will make people happy while also maintaining the integrity of the game?

I think if this singular issue is addressed, no matter what kind of changes we see in particular, you will show the community and the players who pay for this game and all of its content that you're listening and are willing to deliver excellent continued support to your game. This to me is probably the most important thing that the developers should consider right now, even more than the content. You can add new DLC all you want and I'm sure people will continue to buy it, but those numbers will dwindle and get smaller and smaller over time as people become disillusioned with the product they bought. Please don't fall into this trap ZOS! We all love ESO here and we want to continue playing this game and supporting you all for years to come.

I find it worrisome that they think making small balance changes regularly will break their game. What makes it worse is that in that's turned out to be true in some cases.

yodased wrote: »

Let's make sure we are on the same page here



You are the third dot from the 7,000,000,000 from the left. I think I see me over there on the right.

None of us have any idea of the big picture. We all see these little frames and compartments and think we can extrapolate that out to scale of the playerbase.

Know what, the most you can actively be a part of is 2,499 players. This is your community. 5 guilds, 500 people, minus yourself.

You could then take a strawpoll of those people and try to take some info from that, but its such a small sample size your data will be completely broken.

Remember that not everyone is the same as yourself, even though it feels that way.


They have access to the data. We don't. 100% of these posts and ideas are just that, ideas, conjecture, speculation.

Not to say I don't agree with the concept and the ideals behind it, but don't think that we can affect change by being on the forums.

Last maths were done someone figured out it was less than 1% of all players that visit these forums, so uh how can a vocal minority of super low % mean anything?

This should be required reading prior to posting on the forums

So now I know we're being watched by the overlords I guess I better make posts with better structure.

This one is aimed a little more at ZOS but feel free to debate the points.

Earlier Information Releases.
Start the feedback topics before things hit PTS, right after the last update is posted. If the development period is going to be three months let's use those three months to debate about the changes and offer better solutions.

Monthly(Weekly) DevBlogs
Release a developer blog each week, one from Rich about general road ahead, one from Brian about PvP updates, one from Eric about skills/items updates and one from the lead PvE developer (I am really sorry I don't know your name! I am a dirty PvP player).
This gives everyone an update each month for each area of the game, not too much pressure on those division heads as it's a month write up and we as players get something nice to read each week.

More Internal Data
When ZOS came out and showed the internal data for AP made by players I was amazed to see just how low the average AP/Day was. Previously I had no idea just what others would earn in a casual gaming session and once I had that knowledge I could look at the 600+ days required to skill up and agree that the Alliance War skill line changes were good.
Far too often we just get told something and are given no information as to how you reached that conclusion, help us understand what you looked at to see the changes you're making. Also I really really like graph ***.

Explain the Company Structure.
Tell us who is on Eric's team, let them have names and faces! We see a few developers on ESO Live from time to time but these are more often the big names. Give us a tour of your offices so we can see where and how you work, let us in a little.
We as players know very little about how you work and what structures you have in place, the ESO Live Life at ZOS segments are already a great start on this.

Don't be Scared to Say No.
Be willing to say "No, we are not going to do that" sure there will be rage but this is your game and we would rather have an answer than check the forums every day to see a 54 page thread still without a Developer answer. I would rather know that you're not going to do something for sure than sit waiting and wondering.

Turelus wrote: »

So now I know we're being watched by the overlords I guess I better make posts with better structure.

This one is aimed a little more at ZOS but feel free to debate the points.

Earlier Information Releases.
Start the feedback topics before things hit PTS, right after the last update is posted. If the development period is going to be three months let's use those three months to debate about the changes and offer better solutions.

Monthly(Weekly) DevBlogs
Release a developer blog each week, one from Rich about general road ahead, one from Brian about PvP updates, one from Eric about skills/items updates and one from the lead PvE developer (I am really sorry I don't know your name! I am a dirty PvP player).
This gives everyone an update each month for each area of the game, not too much pressure on those division heads as it's a month write up and we as players get something nice to read each week.

More Internal Data
When ZOS came out and showed the internal data for AP made by players I was amazed to see just how low the average AP/Day was. Previously I had no idea just what others would earn in a casual gaming session and once I had that knowledge I could look at the 600+ days required to skill up and agree that the Alliance War skill line changes were good.
Far too often we just get told something and are given no information as to how you reached that conclusion, help us understand what you looked at to see the changes you're making. Also I really really like graph ***.

Explain the Company Structure.
Tell us who is on Eric's team, let them have names and faces! We see a few developers on ESO Live from time to time but these are more often the big names. Give us a tour of your offices so we can see where and how you work, let us in a little.
We as players know very little about how you work and what structures you have in place, the ESO Live Life at ZOS segments are already a great start on this.

Don't be Scared to Say No.
Be willing to say "No, we are not going to do that" sure there will be rage but this is your game and we would rather have an answer than check the forums every day to see a 54 page thread still without a Developer answer. I would rather know that you're not going to do something for sure than sit waiting and wondering.

+1 For more transparency. The more we know, the less we come up with our own wacky theories for what is happening behind the closed, locked doors at ZOS headquarters.

Sallington wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

So now I know we're being watched by the overlords I guess I better make posts with better structure.

This one is aimed a little more at ZOS but feel free to debate the points.

Earlier Information Releases.
Start the feedback topics before things hit PTS, right after the last update is posted. If the development period is going to be three months let's use those three months to debate about the changes and offer better solutions.

Monthly(Weekly) DevBlogs
Release a developer blog each week, one from Rich about general road ahead, one from Brian about PvP updates, one from Eric about skills/items updates and one from the lead PvE developer (I am really sorry I don't know your name! I am a dirty PvP player).
This gives everyone an update each month for each area of the game, not too much pressure on those division heads as it's a month write up and we as players get something nice to read each week.

More Internal Data
When ZOS came out and showed the internal data for AP made by players I was amazed to see just how low the average AP/Day was. Previously I had no idea just what others would earn in a casual gaming session and once I had that knowledge I could look at the 600+ days required to skill up and agree that the Alliance War skill line changes were good.
Far too often we just get told something and are given no information as to how you reached that conclusion, help us understand what you looked at to see the changes you're making. Also I really really like graph ***.

Explain the Company Structure.
Tell us who is on Eric's team, let them have names and faces! We see a few developers on ESO Live from time to time but these are more often the big names. Give us a tour of your offices so we can see where and how you work, let us in a little.
We as players know very little about how you work and what structures you have in place, the ESO Live Life at ZOS segments are already a great start on this.

Don't be Scared to Say No.
Be willing to say "No, we are not going to do that" sure there will be rage but this is your game and we would rather have an answer than check the forums every day to see a 54 page thread still without a Developer answer. I would rather know that you're not going to do something for sure than sit waiting and wondering.

+1 For more transparency. The more we know, the less we come up with our own wacky theories for what is happening behind the closed, locked doors at ZOS headquarters.

I do my best to believe people at ZOS are listening, more or less, and working really hard to reflect opinions from player base on the game. But when it comes to transparency, it seems they are kind of stubborn here.

I'll post this from the other thread, would be nice to see things like this - even on the PTS

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

I'll post this from the other thread, would be nice to see things like this - even on the PTS

That's actually something we've been talking about doing in the future (assuming we're both looking at the Developer Comments section).

Edit: By "the future", that just means we don't have time to do it for Thieves Guild release next week, but potentially starting in one of the incrementals.

Yes ma'am, exactly that.

yodased wrote: »

Last maths were done someone figured out it was less than 1% of all players that visit these forums, so uh how can a vocal minority of super low % mean anything

I liked and agreed with entirety of you remarks, well said as usual @yodased but I feel I must correct you on one thing, irl we see examples every single day of 'vocal minorities' high-jacking entire business', political movements, governments and laws, bureaucracies and especially sub reddits.

Just a small correction from a slightly sarcastic dunmer

Edit: I lied, I don't like lying it just doesn't sit well with me. I'm extremely sarcastic all the time. Gawd I feel better now that I corrected that, phew!