[Cross Faction Trials] ZOS, I Personally Thank You For Ruining END GAME Competition

DisgracefulMind · March 2016

Holy-Dope wrote: »

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

ulrik.igerupb16_ESO wrote: »

Reading between the lines, it seems to me that the "endgame pve guilds" just want to keep the leaderboard positions to themselves.

I'm not sure you're understanding that this will mean the hardcore endgame pve guilds actually could keep the entire leaderboard positions to themselves. Not just a few slots...I mean the entire thing. What makes you think that guilds aren't going to just turn around and farm the entire leaderboards? Right now we have it as a collection of guilds competing with each other for top scores; which doesn't affect most of you who don't bother to compete in endgame pve, because if it did affect you, you'd be competing anyways.

But for a cross-faction leaderboard, even the smaller guilds who fight it out for the lower spots will easily be knocked off and dissolved. So, no, it's not just about the top guilds, it's about how it's all going to collide when and if it goes live.

Look at the bigger picture.

^^
So, i'm confused here now. are we discussing CFT with people from different faction and guilds competing together or End game PVE guilds competing at all...

I'm honestly just concerned with how it's going to affect PvE guilds competing at all, but I suppose we'll see what happens. No point arguing it any further on forums.

Efaritay · March 2016

Please don't let this Happen ZoS.

I am more than happy for cross faction content. Doing the dungeons and trials is a great idea.

But the leaderboard aspect really is a disappointing move.

Personally I will never be part of the top spot, but to see that my Faction is brings great pride.

Please Zenimax.. Don't ruin friendly faction competition.

SoulAffliction · March 2016

Must be nice to have a "Council of Raiders" meeting with ZOS.....guess the other 99% of the community gets the shaft! With the exception of the PVP streamers of course; ZOS seems to cater to them just as well!

EgoRush · March 2016

SoulAffliction wrote: »

Must be nice to have a "Council of Raiders" meeting with ZOS.....guess the other 99% of the community gets the shaft! With the exception of the PVP streamers of course; ZOS seems to cater to them just as well!

Pretty ignorant statement to make. During the meeting we always try to think about the community as a whole. Many people during the meeting remind everyone there that we're the top guilds currently and that we need to think of it in perspective of everyone. For instance, I've never been a strong advocate of buffing the second boss on vMOL because, as it stands, only a tiny fraction of people are probably capable of beating it.

Just because someone from a top guild had the initiative to approach ZOS and arrange the meeting doesn't mean ZOS cater to their opinions alone. We're all entitled to an opinion, and ZOS has a track record of going with the majority, not what the top 1% suggest. So get a grip and perhaps consider some constructive criticism. As if the 99% are getting the shaft, honestly.

timidobserver · March 2016

Never mind misunderstood the change.

Woeler · March 2016

SoulAffliction wrote: »

Must be nice to have a "Council of Raiders" meeting with ZOS.....guess the other 99% of the community gets the shaft! With the exception of the PVP streamers of course; ZOS seems to cater to them just as well!

We set this up ourselves. Anyone can contact them and try to do the same. Took me hours and hours of emailing and contacting people. Guess the other 99% refuses to get off their lazy a$$es and would rather just complain on the forums that other people are actually getting stuff done by putting effort and time in it.

Not willing to invest that time to get people together? Then quit the complaining.

Emma_Overload · March 2016

Erraln wrote: »

I'm sorry, I don't get it. Being able to team up with more people is a bad thing? The existence of the feature somehow sullies your pure-faction team score?

^^^THIS^^^

I don't understand what the OP is complaining about at all. Is there anything stopping him from continuing to raid with the same group he did before? It doesn't sound like it.

What is OP scared of.... that some guys will be able to put together a cross-faction "dream team" that beats his group's scores and knocks them down the leaderboards? What's wrong with that?

Woeler · March 2016

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Erraln wrote: »

I'm sorry, I don't get it. Being able to team up with more people is a bad thing? The existence of the feature somehow sullies your pure-faction team score?

^^^THIS^^^

I don't understand what the OP is complaining about at all. Is there anything stopping him from continuing to raid with the same group he did before? It doesn't sound like it.

What is OP scared of.... that some guys will be able to put together a cross-faction "dream team" that beats his group's scores and knocks them down the leaderboards? What's wrong with that?

OP's group is not even dominating. Point completely invalid.

Bluepitbull13 · March 2016

Having cross faction players form up for trials should be an exhibition thing, should never count towards an actual score

hedna123b14_ESO · March 2016

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Erraln wrote: »

I'm sorry, I don't get it. Being able to team up with more people is a bad thing? The existence of the feature somehow sullies your pure-faction team score?

^^^THIS^^^

I don't understand what the OP is complaining about at all. Is there anything stopping him from continuing to raid with the same group he did before? It doesn't sound like it.

What is OP scared of.... that some guys will be able to put together a cross-faction "dream team" that beats his group's scores and knocks them down the leaderboards? What's wrong with that?

The dream team is exactly it. There are bad players, good players and amazing players. Currently each top guild has a mix of all three. Some have a mix of good and amazing. If cross faction leaderboards were to be a thing then all of the amazing players would group together and never have anyone to compete with and ruin it for the others who maybe are good players on their way to becoming amazing players.

andy_s · March 2016

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

Erraln wrote: »

I'm sorry, I don't get it. Being able to team up with more people is a bad thing? The existence of the feature somehow sullies your pure-faction team score?

^^^THIS^^^

I don't understand what the OP is complaining about at all. Is there anything stopping him from continuing to raid with the same group he did before? It doesn't sound like it.

What is OP scared of.... that some guys will be able to put together a cross-faction "dream team" that beats his group's scores and knocks them down the leaderboards? What's wrong with that?

The dream team is exactly it. There are bad players, good players and amazing players. Currently each top guild has a mix of all three. Some have a mix of good and amazing. If cross faction leaderboards were to be a thing then all of the amazing players would group together and never have anyone to compete with and ruin it for the others who maybe are good players on their way to becoming amazing players.

What if there will be more than 1 group of amazing players?

remilafo · March 2016

get rid of the competition.. cross-faction leaderboards all the way. Your glory will be maintained as you individual name appears in the board.. basically cry about it...

themdogesbite · March 2016

I thought that GUILDS competed against eacother, and not factions when it came to the trials.. I don't really see the issue this brings, but then again i've never competed for trials leaderboards either.

hammayolettuce · March 2016

The issue with cross faction counting for the leaderboards is the top guilds know who the top DPS/Healers/Tanks are and can pick and choose from who is on that night to do runs that will end up on the top which will eventually lead to inter guild fighting.

Once guild members begin to argue and it doesn't end the guilds pretty much over at that point. Its happened time and time again. There will be just 1 super guild made up of cross faction members who will dominate the leaderboards and will be on the boars multiple times like they are now. good luck to any up and coming player attempting to be competitive at end game content with this change coming.

This change will further ruin end game content in eso and eventually just push it into a further casual category as it is already being pushed into.

Many of the top PVP players have left to other games at this point and even more have left with the game that came out this past weekend. This change will surely push away more top end players who for the most part are the content creators that give free advertisement for ZOS.

*

Alcast · March 2016

I wouldn't mind crossfaction, but WHY WHY WHY make it available for leaderboards seriously? My guess is they could not figure out how to activate/deactivate the leaderboards so they just went with it

Crossfaction? Yes
Crossfaction with leaderboards? NO

Docmandu · March 2016

As a PvP player, I don't get it.. why the fuzz... then again.. not the first time a PvE player's view of the world confuses me.

Enodoc · March 2016

I've only read the first page, but I don't get the problem. The top raiding guilds are the top raiding guilds, regardless of what factions their members are from. That's down to player skill, not what colour their flag is. Any cross-faction raiding guild will now be able to hold Trials runs with any of their members, rather than having to wait for 12 of one faction to show up.

And if anyone thinks the main issue is this is in some way lore-breaking, and wants to discuss that aspect, I will bring out all the reasons why it certainly isn't.

flguy147ub17_ESO · March 2016

Woeler wrote: »

SoulAffliction wrote: »

Must be nice to have a "Council of Raiders" meeting with ZOS.....guess the other 99% of the community gets the shaft! With the exception of the PVP streamers of course; ZOS seems to cater to them just as well!

We set this up ourselves. Anyone can contact them and try to do the same. Took me hours and hours of emailing and contacting people. Guess the other 99% refuses to get off their lazy a$$es and would rather just complain on the forums that other people are actually getting stuff done by putting effort and time in it.

Not willing to invest that time to get people together? Then quit the complaining.

Or the other 99% is busting their ass with a job and career not spending hours and hours trying to setup meetings with a video game developer so they can show their epeen on a leaderboard. I am not damn lazy, i bust my ass on things that *** matter like my career and when i have a little free time i play this game. Calling other people lazy because they have better crap to do then spend hours emailing a game developer so they can show their greatness on a video game leaderboard.

[minor edit for sniping comment]

MissBizz · March 2016

"What is the point of alliances, what is the point of guilds for that matter now,"

Forgive my ignorance, as I am obviously not a "Top NA" player or anything... but, guilds ARE cross faction.. so isn't this change actually conforming with how guilds already were? I'm pretty sure I'll be a broken record here... but you choose your alliance for the three banner war. They are already NPC guilds (Fighter/Mage) that are cross faction.. showing that the factions can work together to achieve a common goal (killing the bad guys). I guess due to the fact I am not super-competitive I just don't see why it matters if a group consisting of 3 different factions players hit the top leaderboards. Right from the get-go ZOS made it available to hang out with cross-faction buddies (guilds) so I never saw where they were trying to sway you into working so hard against the other factions. You are still competing against other PvE guilds whether those guilds have multiple alliance characters or not..

Like I said, forgive my ignorance as I see this from a completely different view than you obviously.

[EDIT] OH! I think I understand now. I think (please let me know if I'm on the right track or way off).. the issue at hand is that the very top players of each of these guilds could now join forces and constantly be #1 (since they now consist of the very best players across all factions). Right? Which removes competition because the (still insanely good) players left over don't think they could step up their game to remain competitive?

Ah. If that's the case, I can see why that sucks.. removing the competition. To be real though. You brought up "faction loyalty".. well.. to be it sounds like those players wouldn't have any loyalty anyways. On the flip side, I still hold my thoughts... if there is a minuscule chance that one of those raid guilds all had bad internet problems that week and I happened to be running a trial (cross faction since that's how I roll)... I'd be PISSED if I couldn't get on (the very bottom) of the leaderboards because we all hopped on our favourite/best character instead of all the same faction.

bubblebuttboss · March 2016

you listed the most elitest guilds in the game...will they become more elitest?

really all im hearing here is that you might get bumped a place or two on the leaderboard, now i could be completely wrong here, and forgive me if I am. I just think that more competition is good competition, it'll further the guilds in the long run.

I think this is the right move for the majority of the population plenty of great players around that dont want to be part of those guilds because they cant stand the attitudes, and now we are able to find like minded skilled individuals from other factions to raid with.

I love it

SickDuck · March 2016

In ESO guilds are meaningless, factions in PvE are meaningless too.

Guilds are so meaningless they don't care about factions. They are based on accounts not on characters and of course accounts can have cross faction alts. Guilds don't give you any bonuses. There are no guild based rewards or activities. If a group of 11 guild members inviting a 12th member outside of the guild to a raid, it does give no disadvantage or bonus to the outsider. It doesn't matter. Because of that I don't really get the point of the OP.

The game should either get away from factions in PvE or start to add some meaning to them. It seems ZOS decided to take the earlier route.

Now for the leaderboard... it has some issue. First of all that it is character based and allows the top-of-the-top to participate with multiple toons easily.

Cross-faction grouping was a much anticipated change for many people, coming in a bit too late for some already. Although I still don't get what the fuss is all about on competition (as the game does not endorse faction or guild play in any ways), my bet is that this change will be welcomed by much more than the grumpy 0.0001% making the top 100.

ZOS_CoriJ · March 2016

It seems that the majority of this discussion has been constructive debate toward the pros and cons of this topic. There were a few comments we decided to remove for getting a little too heated. For the sake of bringing attention to this subject and continuing constructive feedback, please keep responses civil and away from attacking any specific person or group.

Bluepitbull13 · March 2016

MissBizz wrote: »

[EDIT] OH! I think I understand now. I think (please let me know if I'm on the right track or way off).. the issue at hand is that the very top players of each of these guilds could now join forces and constantly be #1 (since they now consist of the very best players across all factions). Right? Which removes competition because the (still insanely good) players left over don't think they could step up their game to remain competitive?

Ah. If that's the case, I can see why that sucks.. removing the competition. To be real though. You brought up "faction loyalty".. well.. to be it sounds like those players wouldn't have any loyalty anyways. On the flip side, I still hold my thoughts... if there is a minuscule chance that one of those raid guilds all had bad internet problems that week and I happened to be running a trial (cross faction since that's how I roll)... I'd be PISSED if I couldn't get on (the very bottom) of the leaderboards because we all hopped on our favourite/best character instead of all the same faction.

This change is going to make it more convenient to get all 8 characters on the leaderboards. If I recall, in Thieves Guild DLC the leaderboards are going to be back to having the top 100 players, just in 1 raid group 12 people with 8 alts = 96 spots alone in leaderboards for weekly rewards

EgoRush · March 2016

I don't think it's an issue that all the elitist best will group up into a super group of 12 that dominate. That's already the case without cross faction anyway

SickDuck · March 2016

Bluepitbull13 wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

[EDIT] OH! I think I understand now. I think (please let me know if I'm on the right track or way off).. the issue at hand is that the very top players of each of these guilds could now join forces and constantly be #1 (since they now consist of the very best players across all factions). Right? Which removes competition because the (still insanely good) players left over don't think they could step up their game to remain competitive?

Ah. If that's the case, I can see why that sucks.. removing the competition. To be real though. You brought up "faction loyalty".. well.. to be it sounds like those players wouldn't have any loyalty anyways. On the flip side, I still hold my thoughts... if there is a minuscule chance that one of those raid guilds all had bad internet problems that week and I happened to be running a trial (cross faction since that's how I roll)... I'd be PISSED if I couldn't get on (the very bottom) of the leaderboards because we all hopped on our favourite/best character instead of all the same faction.

This change is going to make it more convenient to get all 8 characters on the leaderboards. If I recall, in Thieves Guild DLC the leaderboards are going to be back to having the top 100 players, just in 1 raid group 12 people with 8 alts = 96 spots alone in leaderboards for weekly rewards

Sure the leaderboard is far from perfect but that's a different story. This change may get another 10-15 players unhappy cause slipping out of the weeklies, but on the other hand it may keep thousands happy on the cross-faction play. Seem like a safe bet.

Fetaro · March 2016

hedna123b14_ESO wrote: »

The dream team is exactly it. There are bad players, good players and amazing players. Currently each top guild has a mix of all three. Some have a mix of good and amazing. If cross faction leaderboards were to be a thing then all of the amazing players would group together and never have anyone to compete with and ruin it for the others who maybe are good players on their way to becoming amazing players.

The way I see it, you are too lazy to train yourself to become an amazing player, and just want to hang with them to have a better score without sweating.

s7732425ub17_ESO · March 2016

I am completely against Nifty's argument. I strongly, strongly support cross-faction group content for everything in the game. Why? Right now, if you want to run a Trial, you can only do so with 1/3 of the player population. Why is there an artificial limitation on the amount of different players I can run with?

If you want to go for a world record time, YOU WANT THE 12 BEST PLAYERS IN THE WORLD. If those 12 players are split across factions, you can only run with 4 of the best players at a time. This is silly. The best of the best always want to run with the best.

Destroying lore?
Trials are faction agnostic to begin with. Not destroying lore at all.

Destroying the competitiveness across factions?
Eh. There's PVP for that. And even then, a lot of the top guilds hop around factions. As for PVE, it's much more beneficial to be able to play group content with the full player population. I see this "destroying competitiveness" argument as having no weight.

Encouraging elitist behavior?
Already exists. Allowing cross faction grouping isn't going to change anything at all.

Removing the competition between all current top guilds?
Just don't form groups outside of your guild... Like yeah... I'm not sure how being cross faction stops you from doing this. What a silly argument you have here.

Bezz · March 2016

I don't see a reason to complain personally. If you think your a top player then prove it. Who cares if it's with another faction. Most people re-rolled to be apart of different faction, but it can be easier on them now imo.

Nifty2g · March 2016

I'm noticing that so far all the guilds against it are the ones who are dominating the boards currently and the ones who are for it just want to play with friends and deep down don't really care about scores

Hmm I wonder what Zos are going to do

Woeler · March 2016

Ah, it seems downright calling someone out with vulgar language is totally allowed, but pointing someone to it with clever cynical remarks is "out of line". The joys of the day.