Lirkin wrote: »

coolermh wrote: »

I am not really that good though...I just have a ton of cp so it makes playing low level dungeons to easy

This about I have so much CP and have a min/max so that that now I want the game harder for everyone. I have an idea. Reset you account and don't apply the CP. Or limit the skills you use. Or how about you make a character that is not optimal and play.

Autolycus wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

coolermh wrote: »

So last night a couple of guildies and myself went on alts and had some fun in the non-vet camps and at the end of the night we decided to do a few dungeon on are lowbies for the skill points. The four of us were fairly veteran players and know how to build chars. We did the first dungeon and it was really really easy so we decided to do white gold tower...again so easy it was not fun...so one guy left and we decided to do imperial city prison with only 3 people.... a bit more of a challenge but we still never even wiped....

Why is it so easy...Champion points... I have over the cap and the rest of the guys were 300+. Can we please scale dungeon difficulty somehow to account for champ points...make it fun again please!

The difficulty slider is CPs....thats what they are there for. To make things more effective which causes a reduction in difficulty.

Lets say you were not using CP's as it seems you are using them. The game was more difficult and it was changed, I do believe the original difficulty was fit best but there were a lot of complaints and still a large forum voice of....make everything solo-able.

I would like to see more difficulty but I'm unsure that it makes sense if you're using CPs and a manual group where the dungeon is scaled to the leader. By that approach its going to be a lot easier than it use to be prior to any group leader scaling or Group Finder scaling.

Smurf,

CPs are an artificial replayability hook. To keep you playing the game. They're here because the devs don't want to design a deeper progression system.

CPs will ruin this MMO. Difficulty balance and class balance can't be achieved with this system in place.

I'm not sure how your comment relates to this topic.
Undeniably, the use of CP's especially after 100, create efficiencies that by default make your character more efficient and more effective. That leads to an easier interaction for any PvE or PvP situations....the more CP's you gain to a certain extent, the further this applies. I do feel there is a break even but this topic is regarding a player under level 50 who has over 300 CPs who wants more difficulty.

If they do not use any of the 300 CPs that changes their experiences.
We know this due to the CP caps put in place and the many CP calculators.

ZOS has now scaled a lot of content and will continue to do so, which attempts to set a scale.
Whether good or bad, a scale is set and this scale is offset by utilizing CPs.

As results, the CP is basically a difficulty slider now. The OP wants more difficulty, so my suggestion is to fist remove all CPs and replay (with the entire group not using CPs)

I would also like more difficulty but I do not think difficulties should be created based on a players experience using CPs.

This is actually about how, even without the use of any CP at all, or any crafted gear, PvE content is still too easy. New and returning players alike are saying the same thing. What motivation is there for a new player if it's too easy, right out of the gate. What motivation do existing players have to remain if everything is too easy?

Shunravi wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

coolermh wrote: »

So last night a couple of guildies and myself went on alts and had some fun in the non-vet camps and at the end of the night we decided to do a few dungeon on are lowbies for the skill points. The four of us were fairly veteran players and know how to build chars. We did the first dungeon and it was really really easy so we decided to do white gold tower...again so easy it was not fun...so one guy left and we decided to do imperial city prison with only 3 people.... a bit more of a challenge but we still never even wiped....

Why is it so easy...Champion points... I have over the cap and the rest of the guys were 300+. Can we please scale dungeon difficulty somehow to account for champ points...make it fun again please!

The difficulty slider is CPs....thats what they are there for. To make things more effective which causes a reduction in difficulty.

Lets say you were not using CP's as it seems you are using them. The game was more difficult and it was changed, I do believe the original difficulty was fit best but there were a lot of complaints and still a large forum voice of....make everything solo-able.

I would like to see more difficulty but I'm unsure that it makes sense if you're using CPs and a manual group where the dungeon is scaled to the leader. By that approach its going to be a lot easier than it use to be prior to any group leader scaling or Group Finder scaling.

Smurf,

CPs are an artificial replayability hook. To keep you playing the game. They're here because the devs don't want to design a deeper progression system.

CPs will ruin this MMO. Difficulty balance and class balance can't be achieved with this system in place.

I'm not sure how your comment relates to this topic.
Undeniably, the use of CP's especially after 100, create efficiencies that by default make your character more efficient and more effective. That leads to an easier interaction for any PvE or PvP situations....the more CP's you gain to a certain extent, the further this applies. I do feel there is a break even but this topic is regarding a player under level 50 who has over 300 CPs who wants more difficulty.

If they do not use any of the 300 CPs that changes their experiences.
We know this due to the CP caps put in place and the many CP calculators.

ZOS has now scaled a lot of content and will continue to do so, which attempts to set a scale.
Whether good or bad, a scale is set and this scale is offset by utilizing CPs.

As results, the CP is basically a difficulty slider now. The OP wants more difficulty, so my suggestion is to fist remove all CPs and replay (with the entire group not using CPs)

I would also like more difficulty but I do not think difficulties should be created based on a players experience using CPs.

I agree with your premise as the game currently stands. But as much as cp can be used as a dificulty slider, I do not believe that telling a player that they should ignore their character and account progression in order to have a more fulfilling experience is heathy for them or the game in general. Especially since an account with more cp is likely to have already experienced that content before. This simply propagates stale content. PvP is more balanced in this regard as you can find other players of similar progression to fight. In pve though, its stale.

What i believe the op is proposing, and what my arguments have been for, is for a form of active scaling based on the experience a player has with the game. As you must have at least one level 50 character to have cp, i believe cp is an excelent indicator for a players experience with the game. An active scaling system would work to keep older content interesting for older players, while keeping the encounter completely untouched for players new to the game. (emphasized because it seems to be the main point of duscussion in the thread.)

This can wotk by aplying mathematical scaling matrices to stats in the content. These could be based on a geralization of how much sustain, survivability, and damage a player is expected to have given a certain number of cp (+ better gear as they have a max rank character.) and these could affect basic things like npc health and damage, but could also affect things like timers and percentages as well. Take vCoH; there is a boss that has two forms of aoe. At a certain percent hp, it will use both phases at once. What this form of scaling could do is make it so the threshold for said dual aoe would occur at higher percentages of health. In this case it would raise it above 'execute phase.' But for players with few or no cp, this encounter would remain more or less the same. This can also affect something like the movement speed of a mobile aoe, or adds.

This wouldnt be creating new dificulties as much as changing what already exists without affecting the less experienced. I see such a thing as a giid thing in terms of keeping content interesting and fir the longevity of the game.

Artjuh90 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

coolermh wrote: »

So last night a couple of guildies and myself went on alts and had some fun in the non-vet camps and at the end of the night we decided to do a few dungeon on are lowbies for the skill points. The four of us were fairly veteran players and know how to build chars. We did the first dungeon and it was really really easy so we decided to do white gold tower...again so easy it was not fun...so one guy left and we decided to do imperial city prison with only 3 people.... a bit more of a challenge but we still never even wiped....

Why is it so easy...Champion points... I have over the cap and the rest of the guys were 300+. Can we please scale dungeon difficulty somehow to account for champ points...make it fun again please!

The difficulty slider is CPs....thats what they are there for. To make things more effective which causes a reduction in difficulty.

Lets say you were not using CP's as it seems you are using them. The game was more difficult and it was changed, I do believe the original difficulty was fit best but there were a lot of complaints and still a large forum voice of....make everything solo-able.

I would like to see more difficulty but I'm unsure that it makes sense if you're using CPs and a manual group where the dungeon is scaled to the leader. By that approach its going to be a lot easier than it use to be prior to any group leader scaling or Group Finder scaling.

Smurf,

CPs are an artificial replayability hook. To keep you playing the game. They're here because the devs don't want to design a deeper progression system.

CPs will ruin this MMO. Difficulty balance and class balance can't be achieved with this system in place.

I'm not sure how your comment relates to this topic.
Undeniably, the use of CP's especially after 100, create efficiencies that by default make your character more efficient and more effective. That leads to an easier interaction for any PvE or PvP situations....the more CP's you gain to a certain extent, the further this applies. I do feel there is a break even but this topic is regarding a player under level 50 who has over 300 CPs who wants more difficulty.

If they do not use any of the 300 CPs that changes their experiences.
We know this due to the CP caps put in place and the many CP calculators.

ZOS has now scaled a lot of content and will continue to do so, which attempts to set a scale.
Whether good or bad, a scale is set and this scale is offset by utilizing CPs.

As results, the CP is basically a difficulty slider now. The OP wants more difficulty, so my suggestion is to fist remove all CPs and replay (with the entire group not using CPs)

I would also like more difficulty but I do not think difficulties should be created based on a players experience using CPs.

This is actually about how, even without the use of any CP at all, or any crafted gear, PvE content is still too easy. New and returning players alike are saying the same thing. What motivation is there for a new player if it's too easy, right out of the gate. What motivation do existing players have to remain if everything is too easy?

Well of course if you're playing with any CP or crafted gear it's too easy but if you played at launch prior to anyone having gear and stuff and when the game was a lot harder in closed beta the points I'm sharing are the OP justification isn't the reason to make the game harder.

If anyone is using cp and or crafted gear it's also not a reason to make the game harder.

I agree the game is a lot easier than changes made after October 2013 (closed beta) but even changes after May 2014.
None of those are from CP, crafted gear or scaled environments.

Should the game be harder....problably but what scale should ZOS use?
I'd say none of the above.
Harder also shouldn't be more hit points or NPCs who hit harder.

AI changes are my suggestion and the changes that removed overcharge should come back.
What do you and others say?

make it harder by having to use mechanics like you have to when solo craglorn ;D

Artjuh90 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Artjuh90 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Autolycus wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

coolermh wrote: »

So last night a couple of guildies and myself went on alts and had some fun in the non-vet camps and at the end of the night we decided to do a few dungeon on are lowbies for the skill points. The four of us were fairly veteran players and know how to build chars. We did the first dungeon and it was really really easy so we decided to do white gold tower...again so easy it was not fun...so one guy left and we decided to do imperial city prison with only 3 people.... a bit more of a challenge but we still never even wiped....

Why is it so easy...Champion points... I have over the cap and the rest of the guys were 300+. Can we please scale dungeon difficulty somehow to account for champ points...make it fun again please!

The difficulty slider is CPs....thats what they are there for. To make things more effective which causes a reduction in difficulty.

Lets say you were not using CP's as it seems you are using them. The game was more difficult and it was changed, I do believe the original difficulty was fit best but there were a lot of complaints and still a large forum voice of....make everything solo-able.

I would like to see more difficulty but I'm unsure that it makes sense if you're using CPs and a manual group where the dungeon is scaled to the leader. By that approach its going to be a lot easier than it use to be prior to any group leader scaling or Group Finder scaling.

Smurf,

CPs are an artificial replayability hook. To keep you playing the game. They're here because the devs don't want to design a deeper progression system.

CPs will ruin this MMO. Difficulty balance and class balance can't be achieved with this system in place.

I'm not sure how your comment relates to this topic.
Undeniably, the use of CP's especially after 100, create efficiencies that by default make your character more efficient and more effective. That leads to an easier interaction for any PvE or PvP situations....the more CP's you gain to a certain extent, the further this applies. I do feel there is a break even but this topic is regarding a player under level 50 who has over 300 CPs who wants more difficulty.

If they do not use any of the 300 CPs that changes their experiences.
We know this due to the CP caps put in place and the many CP calculators.

ZOS has now scaled a lot of content and will continue to do so, which attempts to set a scale.
Whether good or bad, a scale is set and this scale is offset by utilizing CPs.

As results, the CP is basically a difficulty slider now. The OP wants more difficulty, so my suggestion is to fist remove all CPs and replay (with the entire group not using CPs)

I would also like more difficulty but I do not think difficulties should be created based on a players experience using CPs.

This is actually about how, even without the use of any CP at all, or any crafted gear, PvE content is still too easy. New and returning players alike are saying the same thing. What motivation is there for a new player if it's too easy, right out of the gate. What motivation do existing players have to remain if everything is too easy?

Well of course if you're playing with any CP or crafted gear it's too easy but if you played at launch prior to anyone having gear and stuff and when the game was a lot harder in closed beta the points I'm sharing are the OP justification isn't the reason to make the game harder.

If anyone is using cp and or crafted gear it's also not a reason to make the game harder.

I agree the game is a lot easier than changes made after October 2013 (closed beta) but even changes after May 2014.
None of those are from CP, crafted gear or scaled environments.

Should the game be harder....problably but what scale should ZOS use?
I'd say none of the above.
Harder also shouldn't be more hit points or NPCs who hit harder.

AI changes are my suggestion and the changes that removed overcharge should come back.
What do you and others say?

make it harder by having to use mechanics like you have to when solo craglorn ;D

I don't follow?

I do want to be clear tho.
If we are always able to quickly recover then it's "easy" but when you enter a fight and you feel no challenge and never second guess attacking more than one other NPC then it's a concern.

Think of being in a delve and fighting one NPC while moving a bit, another starts casting in you. Technically you should almost die but ZOS placing groups of NPCs together vs a small fee with the same amount of exp and more gold.

Grinding a lone is a clear sign that the game needs change in difficulty. I'm just hesitant to agree that those using COs and set gear are the base to make these changes.

mobs in craglorn still have mechanics you have to be wary off. like dragonknight that can chain you given quite a long CC whitout being able to break free. take aim archers things like that

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

coolermh wrote: »

So last night a couple of guildies and myself went on alts and had some fun in the non-vet camps and at the end of the night we decided to do a few dungeon on are lowbies for the skill points. The four of us were fairly veteran players and know how to build chars. We did the first dungeon and it was really really easy so we decided to do white gold tower...again so easy it was not fun...so one guy left and we decided to do imperial city prison with only 3 people.... a bit more of a challenge but we still never even wiped....

Why is it so easy...Champion points... I have over the cap and the rest of the guys were 300+. Can we please scale dungeon difficulty somehow to account for champ points...make it fun again please!

The difficulty slider is CPs....thats what they are there for. To make things more effective which causes a reduction in difficulty.

Lets say you were not using CP's as it seems you are using them. The game was more difficult and it was changed, I do believe the original difficulty was fit best but there were a lot of complaints and still a large forum voice of....make everything solo-able.

I would like to see more difficulty but I'm unsure that it makes sense if you're using CPs and a manual group where the dungeon is scaled to the leader. By that approach its going to be a lot easier than it use to be prior to any group leader scaling or Group Finder scaling.

Smurf,

CPs are an artificial replayability hook. To keep you playing the game. They're here because the devs don't want to design a deeper progression system.

CPs will ruin this MMO. Difficulty balance and class balance can't be achieved with this system in place.

I'm not sure how your comment relates to this topic.
Undeniably, the use of CP's especially after 100, create efficiencies that by default make your character more efficient and more effective. That leads to an easier interaction for any PvE or PvP situations....the more CP's you gain to a certain extent, the further this applies. I do feel there is a break even but this topic is regarding a player under level 50 who has over 300 CPs who wants more difficulty.

If they do not use any of the 300 CPs that changes their experiences.
We know this due to the CP caps put in place and the many CP calculators.

ZOS has now scaled a lot of content and will continue to do so, which attempts to set a scale.
Whether good or bad, a scale is set and this scale is offset by utilizing CPs.

As results, the CP is basically a difficulty slider now. The OP wants more difficulty, so my suggestion is to fist remove all CPs and replay (with the entire group not using CPs)

I would also like more difficulty but I do not think difficulties should be created based on a players experience using CPs.

I agree with your premise as the game currently stands. But as much as cp can be used as a dificulty slider, I do not believe that telling a player that they should ignore their character and account progression in order to have a more fulfilling experience is heathy for them or the game in general. Especially since an account with more cp is likely to have already experienced that content before. This simply propagates stale content. PvP is more balanced in this regard as you can find other players of similar progression to fight. In pve though, its stale.

What i believe the op is proposing, and what my arguments have been for, is for a form of active scaling based on the experience a player has with the game. As you must have at least one level 50 character to have cp, i believe cp is an excelent indicator for a players experience with the game. An active scaling system would work to keep older content interesting for older players, while keeping the encounter completely untouched for players new to the game. (emphasized because it seems to be the main point of duscussion in the thread.)

This can wotk by aplying mathematical scaling matrices to stats in the content. These could be based on a geralization of how much sustain, survivability, and damage a player is expected to have given a certain number of cp (+ better gear as they have a max rank character.) and these could affect basic things like npc health and damage, but could also affect things like timers and percentages as well. Take vCoH; there is a boss that has two forms of aoe. At a certain percent hp, it will use both phases at once. What this form of scaling could do is make it so the threshold for said dual aoe would occur at higher percentages of health. In this case it would raise it above 'execute phase.' But for players with few or no cp, this encounter would remain more or less the same. This can also affect something like the movement speed of a mobile aoe, or adds.

This wouldnt be creating new dificulties as much as changing what already exists without affecting the less experienced. I see such a thing as a giid thing in terms of keeping content interesting and fir the longevity of the game.

But the problem with that whole approach is that you're setting up a situation for solo concepts.
The game difficulty should not be based on one character, or each class. If the game is to change or get harder, it had to change for the world and not the player.

Scaling isn't the answer and scaling is why many feel the game is too easy now.

See if you want difficulty then the AI, the character stats, skills and Passives have to be meaningful and also have detriment for wrong choices. I'm not suggesting strict builds but I am suggesting strict limitations so that we are pushed to play with one another vs creating a stage where each player finds difficult challenges based on their progression or lack there of.

This game was very challenging and difficult in closed beta during NDA but after the NDA was lifted, it was a cake walk.
Choices mattered back then and it wasn't a typical MMO trinity but a meaningful balanced character game with rewards and penalties for choices and precision during each fight. A time where Dosia the boos in the early fighters guild quests was almost impossible to solo. A time when the first Mage guild quests was almost impossible until later levels solo.

A time when doing a simple quest could cause you to die from a 1:1 normal NPC and where boss fights required a lot of thought and timing and or other players.

That's what is like to see but this allows CP to become more meaningful with or without use.

Artjuh90 wrote: »

@Shunravi because scaling in a dungeon is 4 people. a zone is X amount. and the scaling doesn't look at howmutch CP someone has, just adds numbers to be on par at vet 16. that's why it wouldn't work. the OP is full min/max with CP cap and doesn't get why he's overpowered. it's like being level 70 in fallout or skyrim and cry the max difficulty is still easy. yes you are at full power and those mobs weren't designed to handle such strong players. when they were designed there were a few differences:
- No Cp
- soft caps
- OP probably didn't have crafted gear set bonuses
- blue/purple gear in the area
- and less experience with how the game works

should this game be a bit harder? yes
should it be as hard as the OP want's so all new players won't be able to progress anymore and nor will like 90% of the community? HELL NO

Why is it so easy...Champion points... I have over the cap and the rest of the guys were 300+. Can we please scale dungeon difficulty somehow to account for champ points...make it fun again please!

Artjuh90 wrote: »

@Shunravi alright but we have all seen with vMSA what will happen when content is to hard for most people. if vMoL is as hard as the Devs state we will see it again and the OP might be satisfied. or not

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

WalkingLegacy wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

coolermh wrote: »

So last night a couple of guildies and myself went on alts and had some fun in the non-vet camps and at the end of the night we decided to do a few dungeon on are lowbies for the skill points. The four of us were fairly veteran players and know how to build chars. We did the first dungeon and it was really really easy so we decided to do white gold tower...again so easy it was not fun...so one guy left and we decided to do imperial city prison with only 3 people.... a bit more of a challenge but we still never even wiped....

Why is it so easy...Champion points... I have over the cap and the rest of the guys were 300+. Can we please scale dungeon difficulty somehow to account for champ points...make it fun again please!

The difficulty slider is CPs....thats what they are there for. To make things more effective which causes a reduction in difficulty.

Lets say you were not using CP's as it seems you are using them. The game was more difficult and it was changed, I do believe the original difficulty was fit best but there were a lot of complaints and still a large forum voice of....make everything solo-able.

I would like to see more difficulty but I'm unsure that it makes sense if you're using CPs and a manual group where the dungeon is scaled to the leader. By that approach its going to be a lot easier than it use to be prior to any group leader scaling or Group Finder scaling.

Smurf,

CPs are an artificial replayability hook. To keep you playing the game. They're here because the devs don't want to design a deeper progression system.

CPs will ruin this MMO. Difficulty balance and class balance can't be achieved with this system in place.

I'm not sure how your comment relates to this topic.
Undeniably, the use of CP's especially after 100, create efficiencies that by default make your character more efficient and more effective. That leads to an easier interaction for any PvE or PvP situations....the more CP's you gain to a certain extent, the further this applies. I do feel there is a break even but this topic is regarding a player under level 50 who has over 300 CPs who wants more difficulty.

If they do not use any of the 300 CPs that changes their experiences.
We know this due to the CP caps put in place and the many CP calculators.

ZOS has now scaled a lot of content and will continue to do so, which attempts to set a scale.
Whether good or bad, a scale is set and this scale is offset by utilizing CPs.

As results, the CP is basically a difficulty slider now. The OP wants more difficulty, so my suggestion is to fist remove all CPs and replay (with the entire group not using CPs)

I would also like more difficulty but I do not think difficulties should be created based on a players experience using CPs.

I agree with your premise as the game currently stands. But as much as cp can be used as a dificulty slider, I do not believe that telling a player that they should ignore their character and account progression in order to have a more fulfilling experience is heathy for them or the game in general. Especially since an account with more cp is likely to have already experienced that content before. This simply propagates stale content. PvP is more balanced in this regard as you can find other players of similar progression to fight. In pve though, its stale.

What i believe the op is proposing, and what my arguments have been for, is for a form of active scaling based on the experience a player has with the game. As you must have at least one level 50 character to have cp, i believe cp is an excelent indicator for a players experience with the game. An active scaling system would work to keep older content interesting for older players, while keeping the encounter completely untouched for players new to the game. (emphasized because it seems to be the main point of duscussion in the thread.)

This can wotk by aplying mathematical scaling matrices to stats in the content. These could be based on a geralization of how much sustain, survivability, and damage a player is expected to have given a certain number of cp (+ better gear as they have a max rank character.) and these could affect basic things like npc health and damage, but could also affect things like timers and percentages as well. Take vCoH; there is a boss that has two forms of aoe. At a certain percent hp, it will use both phases at once. What this form of scaling could do is make it so the threshold for said dual aoe would occur at higher percentages of health. In this case it would raise it above 'execute phase.' But for players with few or no cp, this encounter would remain more or less the same. This can also affect something like the movement speed of a mobile aoe, or adds.

This wouldnt be creating new dificulties as much as changing what already exists without affecting the less experienced. I see such a thing as a giid thing in terms of keeping content interesting and fir the longevity of the game.

But the problem with that whole approach is that you're setting up a situation for solo concepts.
The game difficulty should not be based on one character, or each class. If the game is to change or get harder, it had to change for the world and not the player.

Scaling isn't the answer and scaling is why many feel the game is too easy now.

See if you want difficulty then the AI, the character stats, skills and Passives have to be meaningful and also have detriment for wrong choices. I'm not suggesting strict builds but I am suggesting strict limitations so that we are pushed to play with one another vs creating a stage where each player finds difficult challenges based on their progression or lack there of.

This game was very challenging and difficult in closed beta during NDA but after the NDA was lifted, it was a cake walk.
Choices mattered back then and it wasn't a typical MMO trinity but a meaningful balanced character game with rewards and penalties for choices and precision during each fight. A time where Dosia the boos in the early fighters guild quests was almost impossible to solo. A time when the first Mage guild quests was almost impossible until later levels solo.

A time when doing a simple quest could cause you to die from a 1:1 normal NPC and where boss fights required a lot of thought and timing and or other players.

That's what is like to see but this allows CP to become more meaningful with or without use.

@NewBlacksmurf (again) in short, I do not disagree with you. And you present very solid point imo. But i do not think its a solo concept as you do, but i guess we just differ on that. Im simply thinking it will be similar to how veteran dungeon scaling to the group leader kept those dungeons relevant when they were far to obsolete. It has worked in this game before, it can again. If it wasn't for that scaling the dungeons would still be locked in their far easier and more boring original levels.

Im curious though as to why you say scaling is the problem now? If its the battle leveling in the new zones, then I can agree. but if its related to instances like the OP was discussing, then it has actually kept things from being too easy aside from power creep from cp and gear and the softcap issue.

I sincerely miss the old game.

But I doubt they will ever go back.

So i see instance scaling to the group leaders cp to be the best current option for keeping interest for older players. As many flaws though there may be. And as a rule, im wary of scaling.

Cool...let's discuss the scaling tho :-)

Scaling or the process of scaling content requires a base in order to calculations to occur for adjustments.
In this game ZOS first sought to set the base on an ever changing player "group leader" and so the calculations would continue to offer slightly different but consistent experiences in dungeons based on the group leader. This allowed a group to have a hard, easy or missed experience. The reason for this tho, was because they didn't want to focus on fixing a problem and tried to work around the problem.

The problem was the grouping tools design....well no let's go back.
The original problem was that ZOS had a base game with a great level 1-50 progression and difficulty. It offered a PvP that other than lag was solid. Then...they added VR levels and cross faction PvE adventures. VR contributed to the grouping tools problems. VR zones contributed to Craglorn not starting at Vr1 so there was an unnecessary gap from VR10...due to this gap players began "grinding" and ZOS started making adjustment after adjustment to encourage going through vr1-vr10 content but reducing exp gains to slow down progression. So yeah...the issues that lead up to all the changes where now the game is too easy....silver n gold zones, and VR contributed to scaling.

Scaling in my opinion is bad overall.

The only positive thing is that it allows ppl to experience certain content at their own rotation. The problem is the entire game isn't scaled. As more and more dlc drop, this allows a player to level from 3-5 or so to level 50 (once VR is gone) but then you still need to do the skill quests, silver and gold zones which have to be done in a certain order to either unlock or gain meaningful exp or items.

Scaling creates a solo player a chance to do a lot but this only works if things are dumbed down. You can't have AI efficient NPCs if a level 10 is fighting them because at level 10, you don't have the skills or items to fight a difficult NPC. On the other side a capped level NPC that only requires killing with very little strategy makes the game too easy.

I'm not saying scaling can't be done in a meaningful way but I'm saying how ZOS chooses to use scaling is the problem in regards to the game being too easy.