@UrQuan you say I lose survivability. Does that mean that it's a nuke and die type build or will I still have enough survivability to win outnumbered fights (assuming I get good at the class). And thanks for clearing up the PvE side of things.

Be a Magicka Dragonknight instead! You get to be a fire-focused mage that literally breathes fire onto your foes! From my experience of running all classes other than Templar, I like the DK the most in terms of fun.

Ok thank you all for your input and quick responses @UrQuan @MrDerrikk @newtinmpls

@starkerealm explained things way better than I did

starkerealm wrote: »

Their in-class AoEs and survivability suffer in comparison to the other three classes, but they excel at reducing individual foes to meat pudding.

You must be referring to a Stamina NB, because my Magicka Nightblade with Sap Essence delivers a MASSIVE AoE that also heals me... the more to the mobs, the better the healing. So if OP is interested in a Blood Mage type of character, going with Magicka Nightblade and utilizing the Siphoning line makes for a very potent and fun character, especially if your character is also a Vampire.

It may be worth taking look at some of the videos posted by Sypher for seeing how different classes work in PvP - though there are many kinds of builds available for PvP. Magicka sorcerer solo/small group outnumbered build doesn't really feel like it is AOE heavy to me, though it does have some options for some aoe effects. Magicka DK feels much more like an AOE type of class, but they are currently not good for small group PvP (as magicka DK, one could easily be repeating Talons - Inhale AOE attacks, mixed with other skills).

Here's a list of skills what a magicka sorc might be running for PvP:

Sorcerer skills: hardened ward (shield), crystal fragments (single target), storm atronach (aoe ultimate that does very nice damage, but the atronach can be made useless if a crowd control ability is used on it), overload (single target, provides additional skill bar), streak ("aoe", but cannot be used many times repeatedly due to increasing costs, used for great mobility), daedric mines (stationary, not spammable "aoe", helps protect yourself, does some significant damage when an enemy enters the area, just helps with burst and roots the enemy for a second or less because they will roll dodge out of it), boundless storm (utility, very small damage over time component around the character, used for mobility and some resistances), mage's fury (single target execution skill), velocious curse (non-spammable 'damage over time' skill that helps with burst damage). Using liquid lightning is rare in pvp at least for outnumbered fights because it's a stationary damage over time skill, and the current meta favors burst damage. And, players generally have a tendency to avoid standing in aoes for a long period of time, but that depends on the situation - if they can easily get healed through it, they will.

Other aoe ultimates: Meteor (mages guild), Dawnbreaker (fighters guild)

Weapon skills: crushing shock (spammable single target steady damage), healing ward (damage shield when in low health, healing), harness magicka (damage shield), magicka detonation (single target / aoe damage, not spammable), shuffle (more defense / utility).
Magicka detonation is an Alliance War skill that you can unlock after having played quite a bit of PvP. Like... a month or four months, depending on how much and how you PvP. You might not even have it unlocked even after four months. However, magicka detonation is a crucial part of magicka sorcerer builds, just as it's a crucial part of magicka nightblade builds because it provides (currently) great burst damage because it can be activated much earlier than when it will actually go off, and it has the ability to do pretty high damage if it is not blocked by the enemy. However, the skill will be adjusted in the future so that it will only do that big damage against groups of people and won't be so good when it hits just one enemy. The spammable area attack skill for sorcerers comes from the destruction staff skill line, but its range is not very big and since currently the meta favors burst attacks, one would only use this skill in a train in PvP if ever. Trains are not very interesting gameplay (in my opinion), you tend to repeat some things over and over again while not being at much risk because you get a lot of protection from your group and it's more about rotations of skills instead of reacting to enemy skills in a very attuned way. For gameplay that would feel more skilful to you, I would recommend running in small groups (two to five players). That being said, most of the current PvP meta is about running in big groups, unfortunately, precisely because it is difficult to do small group PvP. However, if that's what you're interested in, currently choosing either a nightblade or a sorcerer is best.

Sorcerer PvP is currently about using mobility to benefit from the protection granted by line of sight, about refreshing very strong damage shields, and about stacking various delayed damage skills so that they go off at the same time, creating high damage burst. The class has great mobility, which is a must for small group play currently so that you can avoid some of the large groups or try to get away from them when you need to. Nightblade offers survivability in the current meta through the use of Cloak AND Shadow Image.

ToRelax wrote: »

Yeah, let's compare them...

*Starts reading.*

*Realizes that ToRelax is providing an incomplete list for the other classes.*

*Snorts.*

*Wanders Off.*

@willymchilybily I made a khajiit nightblade but haven't decided on anything yet. Probably going to end up doing stam and then make a sorcerer. I'll see. Ive decided not to try to hard with this character because it's most likely going to suck until i get a good sense of the game haha. Thanks for your feedback.

@starkerealm wow. Thanks for the reply! This really helps clear up so much. Especially the fact that I now know I can't break a character haha. I will take your advice on the nightblade skills. Really excited to get into it! Do you suggest I start putting my points into stamina right away? How much do I put into health and magika?

NoHandedPushups89 wrote: »

For a stamblade none in magic. I went all in stamina and I wear health enchants when I want more of it.

I'm going to have to strongly disagree with starkerealm on concealed weapon tho. You MUST morph veiled into surprise attack on a stam build. It's your best ability and maybe the best in the game. Concealed weapon will be very weak without a lot of points in magic.

The point in morphing for concealed weapon is the movement speed boost. When you combine that with a 5pc Night's Silence, Nightstalker Footsteps (for a vampire), or any of the other sources that can negate the stealth movement penalty, it lets you move 25% faster in stealth than out of it. As a utility effect, especially when combined with Shadow Cloak, it can be very useful.

That said, my favored out of stealth attack is Wrecking Blow, which means Concealed Weapon isn't as valuable to me as to a non-h2 player. It wouldn't surprise me if Veiled is the best option for raw out of stealth damage on a Dual Wielding stamina build (both my DW characters are magicka focused).

I get where you're coming from, and I should have clarified about taking Concealed weapon for the passive bonus it provides, and not to ever actually use it as an attack.

Xvorg wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Their in-class AoEs and survivability suffer in comparison to the other three classes, but they excel at reducing individual foes to meat pudding.

You must be referring to a Stamina NB, because my Magicka Nightblade with Sap Essence delivers a MASSIVE AoE that also heals me... the more to the mobs, the better the healing. So if OP is interested in a Blood Mage type of character, going with Magicka Nightblade and utilizing the Siphoning line makes for a very potent and fun character, especially if your character is also a Vampire.

The key words there are "in comparison." I'm not saying NBs have no good AoEs, just that they have far fewer AoE options to chose from than the other classes. Most weapons have an AoE attack, so Stamina NB actually suffer from it less than Magicka builds. And, I say this having run up a carve abusing Werewolf. With Magicka builds, conventional wisdom used to be the best option was impulse, though I'm not sure if that's still the case. Sap and Soul Shred are the two standout AoEs for NBs, but... that's kinda the list. Compare that to the DK, Temp and Sorc AoE options and you might see what I'm talking about.

Actually as a sap tank, you don't need any other skill besides sap essence (maybe mass hysteria for CC), and can be casted while blocking. You can use siph attacks, grim focus, mageligt, blur, etc for buffs, regen or dmg mitigation in your bar

By the way, lotus fan gives an AoE DoT, which also procs siphoning attacks.

Yeah, I used to use Lotus Fan as my preferred morph of Teleport, before they added Stamina Morphs. Ironically, or not, I run Extraction + Mass Hysteria on my Vampire NB. It's fun, and works; though that is more of a thematic build.

The issue isn't an inability to find AoEs for a Nightblade, it's that, if you're starting out and just learning the game, they're buried most of the way down the skill tree. So identifying them, and working up to them can be setting unreasonable expectations, and the overall assessment holds. If you want to do a lot of AoE nuking, the NB is not the class to pick.

Also, for a Stamina Blade, I'd probably recommend the OP go with Ambush, which means Lotus Fan's a no go. Drain Power and it's morphs are great, but they're also something new players won't unlock until the mid-30s at the earliest. Especially if they don't focus on siphon abilities. So, for introducing a newbie to the class saying, they don't really have many good AoEs is entirely true. For a newbie NB their best AoE option will probably be Soul Shred, without going out of class, anyway.