Dear ZOS, Your CC is not working

FENGRUSH · April 2015

Jaxsun wrote: »

eventide03b14a_ESO wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Sphinx2318 wrote: »

its sad that so many players can agree that there are definitive issues with CC that need fixing asap. and yet, nothing is happening on the development end. whats worse is that ZoS KNOWS about all of these issues and yet we wait for fixes that don't come.

@ZoS -- i think there can be only one take away from this thread...........

#BUFFDK's

Well as per Gina's quote I put in the OP, you'll see they know of our complaints, but "internal testing" showed no problems. Which is clearly wrong, so they think there isn't an issue. I literally detailed what I wanted them to test, I quoted in my last post someone who also clearly explained (better than I did) what is happening. Those are easily reproducible problems, I did it myself and ZOS can too internally if they follow the exact steps.

I would like to know more about their internal testing process. Does it involve top of the line computers optimized for the game? Do they use any addons? Are they feet away from where the server is located and have a ping 10? When they say "test" I'd really like to know what that means.

I found how they test the game...

https://youtu.be/j_ekugPKqFw

Looks like vortexman being ganged up on by Ezareth and some pubs

RoamingRiverElk · April 2015

I also wish I didn't get knocked back by Wrecking Blow when I'm clearly blocking.

Someone said it's because Wrecking Blow crits ignore block.

technohic · April 2015

They don't care. Too busy getting console ready to have the same mess. For all the failures in the PC version, it is now a race against the clock go get the console money before people catch on that they are in over their heads.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · April 2015

Sphinx2318 wrote: »

Huntler wrote: »

Sphinx2318 wrote: »

its sad that so many players can agree that there are definitive issues with CC that need fixing asap. and yet, nothing is happening on the development end. whats worse is that ZoS KNOWS about all of these issues and yet we wait for fixes that don't come.

@ZoS -- i think there can be only one take away from this thread...........

#BUFFDK's

Well as per Gina's quote I put in the OP, you'll see they know of our complaints, but "internal testing" showed no problems. Which is clearly wrong, so they think there isn't an issue. I literally detailed what I wanted them to test, I quoted in my last post someone who also clearly explained (better than I did) what is happening. Those are easily reproducible problems, I did it myself and ZOS can too internally if they follow the exact steps.

it doesn't take rocket science to figure out that DK is now least effective class as far as pvp is concerned. DK enters fight and either kills everyone or dies. we have no escape. ppl complain about 2h + wb but fail to realize that wb is NOT a DK skill but is available to ALL classes. i personally am a magicka DK. im still effective in group play but cannot imagine being able to take down an elite nb or sorc solo....OR blazing shield + healer temp for that matter. at least not without going full stam/single target build.

@ZoS -- I DONT WANT TO BE A FKN STAMINA/SINGLE TARGET DK..........thanks

How can you hope too win a solo fight with AoEs you need single target I mean I get your over all point but me what's good for groups in not always good for solo

Cody · April 2015

I had more experience with it tonight in BB.

I get hit by bitting jabs, CC break it

I then, literally 2 seconds later, get knocked down by shield charge, I CC break it

I get knocked down by shield charge AGAIN, right after I CC break it, so I am forced to CC break it yet AGAIN.

then i get knocked down by dragon leap, I CC break it.

I then get knocked down by shield charge, 2 seconds after breaking the leap.

this broken CC system is really starting to tick me off. I literally had to prevent myself from RAGING at the screen:(

ZOS FIX THE FIX DANG CC SYSTEM. IT. IS. BROKEN.

fix it ASAP. heck do it after consoles if it takes that long, but PLEASE. FIX. IT. People are starting to get fed up with this crap. fix it so we can all move on to other things

Lertil · April 2015

One bug i think i discovered tonight is that if you are CC'd while under the cc-break threshold for your character you cannot cc break out even if you regain enough stam to do so. It might not be true, it was in a somewhat laggy situation but i seemed to have had that happen to me multiple times while i was in a low stamina moment.

C0pp3rhead · April 2015

klink012 wrote: »

And what's up with 3-4 abilities hitting all their dmg at once? These abilities are not timed to explode after a certain time like curse. But in 1 second I see 4 abilities from the same person and I'm dead, with no time to react.

I have spoken with several people about this, and it turns out that some players have started using animation cancelling in conjunction with macros to quickly (and flawlessly) execute several moves in rapid succession. There is an addon that you can use to immediately cancel the animation of whatever spell you're casting. One common macro is to map a single key to cast entropy, cancel the animation, then cast a hard hitting spell. Certain channelled spells (specifically Templar biting jabs) are bugged; if you animation cancel at the right moment, all the damage hits at once even though the animation doesn't play.

Morvul · April 2015

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

klink012 wrote: »

And what's up with 3-4 abilities hitting all their dmg at once? These abilities are not timed to explode after a certain time like curse. But in 1 second I see 4 abilities from the same person and I'm dead, with no time to react.

I have spoken with several people about this, and it turns out that some players have started using animation cancelling in conjunction with macros to quickly (and flawlessly) execute several moves in rapid succession. There is an addon that you can use to immediately cancel the animation of whatever spell you're casting. One common macro is to map a single key to cast entropy, cancel the animation, then cast a hard hitting spell. Certain channelled spells (specifically Templar biting jabs) are bugged; if you animation cancel at the right moment, all the damage hits at once even though the animation doesn't play.

well, the way I experience the "multiple hits all at once" situation usually plays out as follows:
I happily run accros a wide open green field, keeping my hardened ward up and teleporting forward every couple seconds (every couple seconds, so as to not run out of magicka)...
Suddenly I hear a "clonking" noise and keel over dead - about a second later a 2-handed user becomes visible atop my corpse. And death recap tells me I was hit by critical charge followed by 2 wrecking blows and a heavy attack for good measure. While I DID hear a single *clonk* I never was able to actually SEE my attacker, and I also did not hear FOUR hit sounds (as I should have).

(It also frequently happens with snipes and poison arrows - but in that case it's clever usuage of variing flight times of the different skills... while the 2-hander issue is either lag... or a damn powerful exploit)

Aeowyn · April 2015

Finding this thread was a relief. As a magicka user I would rage that my two break frees weren't enough and I'd hear my stam guildies say you choose what builds you can counter so tough. Found this thread and then went back into Cyrodiil and sure enough, noticed that my CC immunities didn't always make me immune. Now that I'm more aware I completely agree and this happens ALL THE TIME.

Also, I was humored to hear stam guildies start to rage about this issue. Doesn't matter what build you have, it's absolutely broken.

We don't get any new content for ages @ZOS_GinaBruno, can the team at least take another look at this massive bug?

Erock25 · April 2015

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

klink012 wrote: »

And what's up with 3-4 abilities hitting all their dmg at once? These abilities are not timed to explode after a certain time like curse. But in 1 second I see 4 abilities from the same person and I'm dead, with no time to react.

I have spoken with several people about this, and it turns out that some players have started using animation cancelling in conjunction with macros to quickly (and flawlessly) execute several moves in rapid succession. There is an addon that you can use to immediately cancel the animation of whatever spell you're casting. One common macro is to map a single key to cast entropy, cancel the animation, then cast a hard hitting spell. Certain channelled spells (specifically Templar biting jabs) are bugged; if you animation cancel at the right moment, all the damage hits at once even though the animation doesn't play.

Maybe there is something with channeled spells/abilities here (heavy attack canceling Wrecking Blows seems to make the WB dmg hit earlier) but I don't understand how animation canceling instant spells has anything to do with a bunch of dmg being lumped into one frame. I just don't think it works that way. Animation canceling Entropy (with block) will not let me follow up with Crushing Shock afterwards any faster than if I let the entire Entropy animation play out. There is a universal global cool down that can not be subverted .... unless I am wrong and I would appreciate someone clarifying this for me.

Huntler · April 2015

Just to keep this thread going, as I already stated I reported this in game and Gina specifically asked in the quote I gave if people were seeing other than what they tested. Please stay on topic guys, animation cancelling isn't a topic here.

SoulScream · April 2015

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

klink012 wrote: »

And what's up with 3-4 abilities hitting all their dmg at once? These abilities are not timed to explode after a certain time like curse. But in 1 second I see 4 abilities from the same person and I'm dead, with no time to react.

I have spoken with several people about this, and it turns out that some players have started using animation cancelling in conjunction with macros to quickly (and flawlessly) execute several moves in rapid succession. There is an addon that you can use to immediately cancel the animation of whatever spell you're casting. One common macro is to map a single key to cast entropy, cancel the animation, then cast a hard hitting spell. Certain channelled spells (specifically Templar biting jabs) are bugged; if you animation cancel at the right moment, all the damage hits at once even though the animation doesn't play.

I've been seeing that as well. I thought it would be against the rules to macro and combine several skills into one hit so I report it when I see it. Last night I saw one of the players that was doing it and they were clearly not banned for it. My pvp time is down to almost 0% now. It has just been to long of lag and exploits.

Rune_Relic · April 2015

Every player needs a stun cycle...
stun state off
stun state on time [3s or so]
stun cool down time [2s or so]

The only time you can ever be stunned is in the stun state off phase.
Otherwise any incoming stuns are dropped.
No stacking.

This guarantees a 2s or so window where you cannot be gang-stunned or stun-locked
Clearly the current immunity still allows being gang-stunned at the very minimum.

Itoq · April 2015

Morvul wrote: »

(It also frequently happens with snipes and poison arrows - but in that case it's clever usuage of variing flight times of the different skills... while the 2-hander issue is either lag... or a damn powerful exploit)

I am pretty sure that there is an occasional lag issue with snipe as well. I often hear a single arrow whistle and within a quarter second I am dead from multiple hits, including a couple of snipes. All of which should have occurred over a minimum of a second after I hear a sound and see my health bar and/or shield bar move..

klink012 · April 2015

Morvul wrote: »

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

klink012 wrote: »

And what's up with 3-4 abilities hitting all their dmg at once? These abilities are not timed to explode after a certain time like curse. But in 1 second I see 4 abilities from the same person and I'm dead, with no time to react.

I have spoken with several people about this, and it turns out that some players have started using animation cancelling in conjunction with macros to quickly (and flawlessly) execute several moves in rapid succession. There is an addon that you can use to immediately cancel the animation of whatever spell you're casting. One common macro is to map a single key to cast entropy, cancel the animation, then cast a hard hitting spell. Certain channelled spells (specifically Templar biting jabs) are bugged; if you animation cancel at the right moment, all the damage hits at once even though the animation doesn't play.

well, the way I experience the "multiple hits all at once" situation usually plays out as follows:
I happily run accros a wide open green field, keeping my hardened ward up and teleporting forward every couple seconds (every couple seconds, so as to not run out of magicka)...
Suddenly I hear a "clonking" noise and keel over dead - about a second later a 2-handed user becomes visible atop my corpse. And death recap tells me I was hit by critical charge followed by 2 wrecking blows and a heavy attack for good measure. While I DID hear a single *clonk* I never was able to actually SEE my attacker, and I also did not hear FOUR hit sounds (as I should have).

(It also frequently happens with snipes and poison arrows - but in that case it's clever usuage of variing flight times of the different skills... while the 2-hander issue is either lag... or a damn powerful exploit)

This is one of the things that makes the fear bug soooo deadly! Funny thing is when you run into these player doing this, you know they have macros. Also, if you get into a 1v1 with one of them and they are the same class as you, it really stands out! I play the same class and I cannot output that many skills / abilities in the same time using normal animation canceling and next skill.

They should completely REMOVE animation canceling all together. Allow block to take precedence over the ability until its casted though, so incase you need to block or cancel the ability you can. Then not allow another skill to be used until animation is complete. OR just made the animations FASTER and actually use the GCD as a timer for skills (my vote)!!

There has been sooo many times where I see crit charge followed by multiple WB's and a heavy attack thrown in there somewhere... all by the same person. 1 second I was walking along, the next I am knocked down and dead, without anyone even on my screen!!!

Back to the original subject. FIX the CC please!! This needs to be #1 priority and should have been patched like 2-3 weeks ago... Please do it before its too late... and you lose even more of the player base. The next Zenimax game I see, I know I will remember ESO, the bugs, and how unimportant very urgent matters to the player base were handled by the company.

Erock25 · April 2015

Sorry @huntler but I have to say that anyone claiming macros killed them in 1s is clueless. I'd love it if someone could prove me wrong (in another topic, of course).

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO · April 2015

Doesn't have to be a macro if I stealth as soon as I see a fear go off and hit Incapacitating Strikes I hit with 12k damage plus a healing debuff and a damage buff just spam Killers blade my 12k plus all the other players damage it's game over but that what you get for face tanking 5+ people the burst you can get hit by is going to be hard it's the burst of five people or more.

But yes I have been locked in CCs and just stand their no powers can be used standing right up and then death

Huntler · April 2015

Erock25 wrote: »

Sorry @huntler but I have to say that anyone claiming macros killed them in 1s is clueless. I'd love it if someone could prove me wrong (in another topic, of course).

Thus why I'm trying to move us away from that point, to be clear I know macros aren't doing what some are claiming. Animation canceling doesn't work like that and can't be used that way, even with a macro. I say that as someone who plays on a laptop with no macros, but also learned enough about the subject.

Back to CC!

RivenEsq · April 2015

Anyone feel as though Evasion (Shuffle et. all) dodges way more than 20%? Or is there just an issue where someone can continue to dodge after they complete their dodge roll? (pretty sure they aren't using the set bonus either)

Morvul · April 2015

RivenVII wrote: »

Or is there just an issue where someone can continue to dodge after they complete their dodge roll? (pretty sure they aren't using the set bonus either)

performing a dodge-roll protects you for longer then the time the dodge-roll animation lasts.
Of course, like everything in ESO PvP it's inconsistent and does not always work...

Valnas · April 2015

http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Crusader+Set

Huntler · April 2015

The gross thing is still no response and the original quote from Gina was to speak up if we are seeing otherwise. If you are available please @ZOS_GinaBruno read the initial post and this thread quoting you and testing on your CC. There are several posts detailing examples where CC immunities are not doing what your quote claims they do.

ZOS_GinaBruno · April 2015

Apologies for the lack of response, been head down in beta reports. We'll go through this thread (and the others) and pull together information for the team to check out. Thanks for the details, and we'll let you know what we find.

Huntler · April 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Apologies for the lack of response, been head down in beta reports. We'll go through this thread (and the others) and pull together information for the team to check out. Thanks for the details, and we'll let you know what we find.

Appreciate it, this thread in particular gives a few examples with details on how we tested, what happened, etc. I imagine replicating these tests should hopefully be easy for internal testing. Good luck and look forward to seeing the results.

Cody · April 2015

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Apologies for the lack of response, been head down in beta reports. We'll go through this thread (and the others) and pull together information for the team to check out. Thanks for the details, and we'll let you know what we find.

plz fix this issue. I left WoWs PvP for this very reason. It was nothing but CC perma stun bullcrap.:(

Gorthax · April 2015

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

klink012 wrote: »

And what's up with 3-4 abilities hitting all their dmg at once? These abilities are not timed to explode after a certain time like curse. But in 1 second I see 4 abilities from the same person and I'm dead, with no time to react.

I have spoken with several people about this, and it turns out that some players have started using animation cancelling in conjunction with macros to quickly (and flawlessly) execute several moves in rapid succession. There is an addon that you can use to immediately cancel the animation of whatever spell you're casting. One common macro is to map a single key to cast entropy, cancel the animation, then cast a hard hitting spell. Certain channelled spells (specifically Templar biting jabs) are bugged; if you animation cancel at the right moment, all the damage hits at once even though the animation doesn't play.

@C0pp3rhead I have a video from last night that shows EXACTLY this happening......I block the leap but still get knocked back (thats one attack) then you see CLEARLY two more attacks (for a total of 3) but the death recap shows 5 attacks.......

Click my wtf just happened signature to see it

SoulScream · April 2015

Gorthax wrote: »

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

klink012 wrote: »

And what's up with 3-4 abilities hitting all their dmg at once? These abilities are not timed to explode after a certain time like curse. But in 1 second I see 4 abilities from the same person and I'm dead, with no time to react.

I have spoken with several people about this, and it turns out that some players have started using animation cancelling in conjunction with macros to quickly (and flawlessly) execute several moves in rapid succession. There is an addon that you can use to immediately cancel the animation of whatever spell you're casting. One common macro is to map a single key to cast entropy, cancel the animation, then cast a hard hitting spell. Certain channelled spells (specifically Templar biting jabs) are bugged; if you animation cancel at the right moment, all the damage hits at once even though the animation doesn't play.

@C0pp3rhead I have a video from last night that shows EXACTLY this happening......I block the leap but still get knocked back (thats one attack) then you see CLEARLY two more attacks (for a total of 3) but the death recap shows 5 attacks.......

Click my wtf just happened signature to see it

Yup and it's really noticeable the players that do this.

Huntler · April 2015

Gorthax wrote: »

C0pp3rhead wrote: »

klink012 wrote: »

And what's up with 3-4 abilities hitting all their dmg at once? These abilities are not timed to explode after a certain time like curse. But in 1 second I see 4 abilities from the same person and I'm dead, with no time to react.

I have spoken with several people about this, and it turns out that some players have started using animation cancelling in conjunction with macros to quickly (and flawlessly) execute several moves in rapid succession. There is an addon that you can use to immediately cancel the animation of whatever spell you're casting. One common macro is to map a single key to cast entropy, cancel the animation, then cast a hard hitting spell. Certain channelled spells (specifically Templar biting jabs) are bugged; if you animation cancel at the right moment, all the damage hits at once even though the animation doesn't play.

@C0pp3rhead I have a video from last night that shows EXACTLY this happening......I block the leap but still get knocked back (thats one attack) then you see CLEARLY two more attacks (for a total of 3) but the death recap shows 5 attacks.......

Click my wtf just happened signature to see it

Call me crazy, but I see exactly what happened there... nothing suspect (other than some latency on blocking the leap).

1. He leaps and hits you (we all agree there), it looks like there was a delay or latency between when he leaped and you blocked, that is probably the most unfortunate part of the whole situation
2. Then which is hard to see because he does it so quickly, he does just barely a heavy attack. Literally it registers as a heavy attack if he holds the mouse key down, but he only does it for an instant so its basically a light attack (notice the damage diff between the light and heavy attack is minimal). Likely what happened is as he was jumping he was holding his mouse key down to hit you immediately after the leap (the animation doesn't register usually when spamming light or medium attacks between skills).
3. He wrecking blows (you can see the windup time for this).
4. As with any good player, between abilities spamming light attack is basically an instant damage bonus and as said before the animation rarely shows up (no macro needed).
5. then he executes you and we see that animation.

This isn't something macros are doing, anyone can do it. Run up to a mob and between melee skills, hit light attack than spam your next skill. You'll see, its just how you can string attacks together. Its efficient and especially important for how ultimate is gained these days.

Jaxsun · April 2015

Cody wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Apologies for the lack of response, been head down in beta reports. We'll go through this thread (and the others) and pull together information for the team to check out. Thanks for the details, and we'll let you know what we find.

plz fix this issue. I left WoWs PvP for this very reason. It was nothing but CC perma stun bullcrap.:(

Unfortunately, cc's are the new meta for mmo's. They all have them, STO, WoW, SWTOR, LOTRO and ESO. I hate the idea of losing control of your character. Snares and roots aren't too bad, provided they don't last more than 2-3 seconds, but being locked out of all movement and ability use is crap. Long gone is SWG, which is still the best MMO ever. It had one stun, pistol whip, which was a melee ability and a couple of snares.

Xsorus · April 2015

Jaxsun wrote: »

Cody wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Apologies for the lack of response, been head down in beta reports. We'll go through this thread (and the others) and pull together information for the team to check out. Thanks for the details, and we'll let you know what we find.

plz fix this issue. I left WoWs PvP for this very reason. It was nothing but CC perma stun bullcrap.:(

Unfortunately, cc's are the new meta for mmo's. They all have them, STO, WoW, SWTOR, LOTRO and ESO. I hate the idea of losing control of your character. Snares and roots aren't too bad, provided they don't last more than 2-3 seconds, but being locked out of all movement and ability use is crap. Long gone is SWG, which is still the best MMO ever. It had one stun, pistol whip and it wad a melee ability and a couple of snares.

lol, you would of really hated DAOC

9 Second Stuns with 15 Minute Cooldowns on Break Free