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Reverse Engineering

kaithuzar
kaithuzar
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I'm sure it's generally defined in the games usage terms, but I'm looking for more specifics. For instance we had a discussion in another post regarding hard caps for stats. Is theoretical or logical guesstimating fall under this? I assume using IDA pro is against the terms, but what about a hex editor, debugger, or even notepad++?
I'm not asking for the purpose of cheating, if anything I feel it would more accurately allow us defined results for testing. If ZOS doesn't want to give us accurate numbers for each stat and how they interact, will we be shunned/banned for figuring them out? I just want to know where the theory crafting line is so that we can more accurately test while making sure to stay out of trouble; thanks.
-kai
Member of:
Fantasia - osh kosh b-josh
Just Chill - Crown's house
GoldCloaks - Durruthy test server penga
Small Meme Guild - Mano's house

Former member of:
Legend - Siffer fan boy club
TKO (tamriel knight's order) - free bks
Deviance - Leonard's senche tiger
Purple - hamNchz is my hero
Eight Divines - myrlifax stop playing final fantasy
WKB (we kill bosses) - turd where you go?
Arcance Council - Klytz Kommander
World Boss - Mike & Chewy gone EP
M12 (majestic twelve) - cult of the loli zerg
  • ZOS_GaryA
    ZOS_GaryA
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    Hey there @kaithuzar,

    This is answered in the End User License Agreement, which can be found here.
    The Elder Scrolls Online: Tamriel Unlimited - ZeniMax Online Studios
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    Staff Post
  • kaithuzar
    kaithuzar
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    Firstly, thank you very much for responding.
    Secondly, unfortunately I've only been lead to more questions. I would appreciate any and all feedback that I can receive on the below topics. Truth be told, I'm not trying to be a thorn in the side, I'm just genuinely interested.


    Section B states:
    Thou shalt not:
    "in whole or in part, modify, adapt, translate, reverse engineer, attempt to derive source code from, modify, disassemble, decompile, or create derivative works based on the Game; provided, however, that you may make one (1) copy of the Game Client and the manuals that accompany it for archival purposes only and you may install the relevant Game Client on one or more computers by you or under your legitimate control as described in Section 1 above; "

    My question about this is that, while not typically in a "reverse engineering definition"; guessing without the use of any 3rd party appliances or software & solely based upon in game play & ones own mind, would that be included in your definition of reverse engineering?


    Section E states:
    Thou shalt not:
    "use any unauthorized third-party software that intercepts, “mines”, or otherwise collects information from or through the Game or the Service, including without limitation any software that reads areas of RAM used by the Game to store information about a character or the game environment; provided, however, that ZeniMax may, at its sole and absolute discretion, allow the use of certain third party user interfaces and other third party software;"

    Many 3rd party created add-ons (which Zenimax has listed above that they now own once created) do collect information from/through the game; although Zenimax restricts what data based on the API. Is there a separate licensing agreement or terms of service with particular details regarding the API?
    Is there a separate licensing agreement or terms of service for the "public test server"?
    What are the limitations set upon "authorized 3rd party software"?
    What constitutes "authorized", especially for mod authors?

    Regarding the "RAM" portion:
    With exploit's always being an issue for end users becoming targeted, many people chose to protect themselves with things like "Microsoft's Enhanced Mitigation Experience Toolkit aka EMET" which does utilize memory randomization among other things to protect software (including yours) from exploitation. Is this application, or others like it "allowed"?
    How do you determine between software such as this versus something you would consider "stealing data from RAM"?

    Thank you!
    -kai
    Edited by kaithuzar on February 28, 2015 4:40PM
    Member of:
    Fantasia - osh kosh b-josh
    Just Chill - Crown's house
    GoldCloaks - Durruthy test server penga
    Small Meme Guild - Mano's house

    Former member of:
    Legend - Siffer fan boy club
    TKO (tamriel knight's order) - free bks
    Deviance - Leonard's senche tiger
    Purple - hamNchz is my hero
    Eight Divines - myrlifax stop playing final fantasy
    WKB (we kill bosses) - turd where you go?
    Arcance Council - Klytz Kommander
    World Boss - Mike & Chewy gone EP
    M12 (majestic twelve) - cult of the loli zerg
  • Sacadon
    Sacadon
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    Doubt you're going to get a lawyer to post on this forum, but watching this thread just in case... Because it would be priceless.
  • timidobserver
    timidobserver
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    If you just show up with some unknown specifics with regard to how some stats/skills interact, I doubt that anyone is going to bother with you. But if you show up going "Hey I reverse engineered the game to figure this out", then yeh you'll probably be banned.
    Edited by timidobserver on February 28, 2015 5:39PM
    V16 Uriel Stormblessed EP Magicka Templar(main)
    V16 Derelict Vagabond EP Stamina DK
    V16 Redacted Ep Stam Sorc
    V16 Insolent EP Magicka Sorc(retired)
    V16 Jed I Nyte EP Stamina NB(retired)

  • Sacadon
    Sacadon
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    If you just show up with some unknown specifics with regard to how some stats/skills interact, I doubt that anyone is going to bother with you. But if you show up going "Hey I reverse engineered the game to figure this out", then yeh you'll probably be banned.
    ^^
    Nope, I'm not a lawyer and therefore I give no legal advice. An example of what I expect they don't want you doing... Reading from the games memory to obtain hidden configuration and setting information, then sharing it and/or creating an application to make use of those intentionally hidden settings. A real-world example of this would be the tool that uses an injection DLL to remove all fog. Yes such a thing was built and it works really well. I don't run it, but I've tested it.
    Edited by Sacadon on February 28, 2015 5:51PM
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