Inventory is unmanageable

badmojo · May 2014

Blackwidow wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

I don't consider giving yourself unlimited inventory as playing in an immersive fashion. In real life you can't just collect firewood all day long without returning to your campsite to drop it off.

This is not about bag space.

This is about bank space.

Let me know how many times I need to say this before it sinks in.

I already said, they're interchangeable. Inventory on your back or inventory in your bank, making either of them irrelevant will have the same effect, just slightly less if they kept bag space the same.

Also, the OP asked for both bank and bag storage to be increased. It's my opinion that any increases in bag/bank space will make them irrelevant, therefore they might as well be unlimited. What's the point in setting a limit if it's so high that it's not a factor, which is exactly what the OP is trying to accomplish, making inventory not a factor.

babylon · May 2014

badmojo wrote: »

making inventory not a factor.

That would be the ideal outcome - inventory micromanagement becoming a non-factor, then we could all go back to playing the game.

badmojo · May 2014

moonsugar66 wrote: »

Arguing for the sake of arguing? Seen lots of that here. Yes, it would make for sense for people to stop concerning themselves so much over issues that don't bother them. Reasonable people do that.

Just because someone isn't bothered by the current system, doesn't mean they wouldn't be bothered by changing that system. This isn't a single player game, any changes to the game effect everyone no matter how much they ignore those changes.

Allyah · May 2014

moonsugar66 wrote: »

Chrysolis wrote: »

moonsugar66 wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

Never in the history of MMOs has anyone come to a forum and complained they have too much bank space.

ikr??!

I reflected on this in a similar thread back in beta. It seems the anti more space people prefer a cramped efficiency apartment style bank as opposed to a more adequate amount of space. Crazy, indeed!

I don't even know if they understand what they're arguing for. I get the sense a lot of them just assume that the forums are here for people to argue in. For example, I addressed the "hoarding" accusation about 10 times now and they're still coming in, reading 2 sentences and deciding that's the problem.

If the problem doesn't effect you then that's fine, move along. If you have some point to make as to why the inventory should remain small, make it (though nobody yet has). There is no negative consequence to having a larger inventory for those who need it.

Arguing for the sake of arguing? Seen lots of that here. Yes, it would make for sense for people to stop concerning themselves so much over issues that don't bother them. Reasonable people do that.

@moonsugar66‌ @Chrysolis‌
Just so both of you know, the main purpose of forums is to make arguments. And arguing for the sake of arguing is one of the oldest forms of debate.

Lodestar · May 2014

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]

EDIT: Just seen this. I jovially asked a previous poster what flavour lollipop he wanted. That was the comment that was moderated, I kid you not.

Blackwidow · May 2014

badmojo wrote: »

I already said, they're interchangeable.

No, they are not.

Carrying a car on your back is not the same as having one in your garage.

Inventory on your back or inventory in your bank, making either of them irrelevant will have the same effect, just slightly less if they kept bag space the same.

Having more bank space does not make it irrelevant.

Also, the OP asked for both bank and bag storage to be increased. It's my opinion that any increases in bag/bank space will make them irrelevant, therefore they might as well be unlimited.

You have a max of 110 bag space with a normal horse.

You are saying if it was 120 bag space, that is the same as unlimited?

ROFLMAO!!!!

Am I on Punked??

What's the point in setting a limit if it's so high that it's not a factor, which is exactly what the OP is trying to accomplish, making inventory not a factor.

Asking for a little more space is not the same as....

You know what, you can sit in the corner. Go! Go sit in the corner until you can be a good boy.

badmojo · May 2014

Blackwidow wrote: »

Having more bank space does not make it irrelevant.

The game is balanced according to the inventory space. If you simply increase the inventory space without addressing the balancing, you're making inventory not a factor.

You want your bank twice the size? They would have to double the amount of materials to compensate.

ShinChuck · May 2014

badmojo wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

Because we can't mail stuff in the game? Oh, wait we can.

If we can, so can banks.

Great justification. I guess we should all be able to teleport around to quest givers and objectives instantly like the bots do, cause wayshrine.

You're missing the point: what Blackwidow was responding to was someone arguing the "realism" argument. Nobody's saying we should be able to teleport all over. What's being said is that "realism" as a primary justification is garbage.

Blackwidow · May 2014

badmojo wrote: »

The game is balanced according to the inventory space.

Please explain this to me like I was a three year old.

I can honestly say i have no clue what you mean by this.

Most of us use mules. If our banks were doubled in size, we would have the same stuff, but in the proper place and we would no longer have to use mules.

So, please explain your "game balance" theory to me.

You want your bank twice the size? They would have to double the amount of materials to compensate.

Ummm....

What?

Why?

babylon · May 2014

badmojo wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

Having more bank space does not make it irrelevant.

The game is balanced according to the inventory space. If you simply increase the inventory space without addressing the balancing, you're making inventory not a factor.

You want your bank twice the size? They would have to double the amount of materials to compensate.

lolbalance...that's a myth. Anyone can see the real issue is their limited database and all its issues. You try loading a guild bank, takes about 5+ goes at times for it to load (database issue). Try loading things into the guild bank - takes years while it slowly goes through each input and returns errors (database issue). What about all the bank wipes in the first month - database issue.

They just need to sort their database out.

Chrysolis · May 2014

Couple quick notes to avoid unnecessary griping:

I didn't actually mean that inventory is completely unmanageable - but rather it's very tedious and it uses up slots that should be reserved for characters you actually play.
I wasn't really asking for an increase to inventory space in the original post, though it was on the list of possible changes. The reason for this is because, if muling is inevitable, then at least fewer mules would be necessary. I've changed this suggestion to just bank space - I don't think there's a problem with inventory space.

@Badmojo, you may be the one person that finds inventory management as a "fun mini-game" element, which perplexes me. I don't really have a solution that will appease your desire to be choked for space and my desire to have enough space to not require muling characters, I'm sorry to say. In this case I would have to simply suggest changes that work against your desire because I'm certain you're outnumbered by the amount of people that don't want to be choked for bank space.

Finally, forums don't exist to argue in as far as I'm concerned. They are a format in which members of the gaming community can communicate with each other, and with the game developers. So if you're just here to practice sophistry, this isn't really the thread for it; though as I've said I'm open to cool-headed and reasonable arguments against my suggestions as Sendarya poised.

Blackwidow · May 2014

badmojo wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

Because we can't mail stuff in the game? Oh, wait we can.

If we can, so can banks.

Great justification. I guess we should all be able to teleport around to quest givers and objectives instantly like the bots do, cause wayshrine.

The system that I said was already in the game.

The wayshrine does not let you do what you are suggesting. Are you feeling okay? You are making a lot of weird comments that make no sense.

Using your thought process, and I use the were thought loosely, I can heal in the game so I guess everyone should just play in god mode.

moonsugar66 · May 2014

badmojo wrote: »

moonsugar66 wrote: »

Arguing for the sake of arguing? Seen lots of that here. Yes, it would make for sense for people to stop concerning themselves so much over issues that don't bother them. Reasonable people do that.

Just because someone isn't bothered by the current system, doesn't mean they wouldn't be bothered by changing that system. This isn't a single player game, any changes to the game effect everyone no matter how much they ignore those changes.

Gosh really?? I'm confused because the arguments against more space have been weak and downright trollish.

"I'm glad your unhappy." ala @Allyah. How is that a constructive statement motivating me to accept the current state? It isn't. It's worth a big, fat zero.

What are they teaching kids these days about constructive discourse and civil debates? Nothin' I guess.

badmojo · May 2014

I think part of the problem is a lot of you guys are looking at this mechanic only from a players perspective and not even considering a game developers perspective. Perhaps that's why I'm the odd one who enjoys the mini-game of inventory management. I would rather be a rat in a maze searching for the cheese than be a rat who was handed the cheese.

@Chrysolis‌ I don't care if you can't work my likes into your suggestions. You kept saying nobody has done anything besides call you a hoarder, so I felt like going into depth about how I feel about the system and why I feel that way.

babylon · May 2014

badmojo wrote: »

I think part of the problem is a lot of you guys are looking at this mechanic only from a players perspective and not even considering a game developers perspective.

Perhaps the problem really is the game developers are only looking at it from a game developer's perspective and not from a player's perspective.

Chrysolis · May 2014

@badmojo‌

The cheese of MMO's is not "having to manage inventory space", as far as I'm concerned, or as I've seen historically. There's other bigger hurdles like gear, level, pvp, and several other far more important things by my reckoning.

Also, it is totally your right to disagree, and if you have noticed I did not merely dismiss your arguments out of hand, even though I don't think they outweigh the benefits of my proposal.

Blackwidow · May 2014

badmojo wrote: »

I think part of the problem is a lot of you guys are looking at this mechanic only from a players perspective and not even considering a game developers perspective.

I am looking at it from a players point of view because I am a frustrated player.

I look at it from a "what is best for the game" point of view because I want this to be a good game.

I look at it from a "company's bottom line" point of view because I don't want it to fail.

The game developers gave us a crap bank system to slow down crafting system. I see their point of view and strongly disagree with it.

Perhaps that's why I'm the odd one who enjoys the mini-game of inventory management.

I love mini games.

Please tell me how you play so i can enjoy it?

I'll set up the scene.....

You just got back from adventuring, ready to play your banking mini game! your bank is full and your bags, after selling junk is still pretty full.

And play. Explain this fun romp of a time. Please.

badmojo · May 2014

Blackwidow wrote: »

Please tell me how you play so i can enjoy it?

I'll set up the scene.....

You just got back from adventuring, ready to play your banking mini game! your bank is full and your bags, after selling junk is still pretty full.

And play. Explain this fun romp of a time. Please.

If you really want to know how I've decided to deal with my inventory, start by reading the 6th post in this thread. Basically, I've taken advantage of everything available to me.

Chrysolis · May 2014

@badmojo‌
So having 500 slots of guild bank space for personal use is not immersion breaking, but 200 slots of personal bank space is? Seems a little inconsistent.

Blackwidow · May 2014

badmojo wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

Please tell me how you play so i can enjoy it?

I'll set up the scene.....

You just got back from adventuring, ready to play your banking mini game! your bank is full and your bags, after selling junk is still pretty full.

And play. Explain this fun romp of a time. Please.

If you really want to know how I've decided to deal with my inventory, start by reading the 6th post in this thread. Basically, I've taken advantage of everything available to me.

I did not ask for advice.

I want to hear about this fun mini game.

BTW, I noticed you use the 500 guild bank as your storage. Why?

Would it not be more fun just to use your personal bank? Isn't that more challenging? More of a mini banking game?

While I'm on the subject, why don't you ask ZOS to half your bank space? Isn't a smaller bank more fun for you?

And you have 4 mules????

"After that I have 4 characters who hold associated materials. Tailor, Blacksmith, Woodworker, Alchemist. Leaving 4 main accounts for me to play on, which are the four classes & three factions."

I can't take you seriously. I won't be chatting with you anymore.

You have 4 mules and you use a guild bank for your personal items and you say there is nothing wrong with the current bank system.

Get the F out of here.

Bulwyf · May 2014

The only way I've manged to deal with the inventory issue is to simply refuse to craft and sell everything. There's not enough inventory space and repair bills are insane enough to basically require putting all your gold into it.

TicToc · May 2014

Sendarya wrote: »

thorntk421 wrote: »

I really don't get why people are arguing against more inventory space!!!????
What's it hurt? If you need more space good,there you go. If you don't well, Don't use it!
Baffles the mind the things people will complain about..Logically how will more inventory space hurt the game in any way?

What it hurts is everything, there would be NO economy or need for trade except with the few people who disdain crafting. Unless they ALSO changed crafting to limit characters to 2 professions, then I would support larger or unlimited storage. You just cannot have unlimited crafting professions AND unlimited storage in an MMO without there being unintended and negative consequences. This is not a single player game where 100% self sufficiency is fine.

You people all want your cake and eat it too. ESO, unlike other games, allows you to learn and max all crafting professions if you wish to, but there is a price to choosing this path.

So pick one, do you want unlimited storage or unlimited crafting options? Because the point I think many of you are missing is that is is not feasible in an MMO to have both.
Pick your poison.

Everything? Seriously? There would be no economy if there was more inventory space? That is just ridiculous and way over dramatic. That idea makes a very faulty assumption of that the only reason that people don't craft is because of cumbersome inventory management, which is not the case. People don't craft because crafting and gathering materials is time consuming, and to many people just plain boring. It has nothing to do with inventory....in other games. In this game the cumbersome inventory management will, not doubt stop people from crafting, or even logging in.

Look. No other MMO has this bad of an inventory management problem. They don't need to increase inventory, they can just make it so that crafting materials don't take up personal inventory space.

Like all MMO's this game already imposes limits on how fast you can craft. Gathering materials, especially for enchanting and alchemy takes a lot of time. The problem is exacerbated by the rarity of certain primary components that are needed, leaving you unable to use what is in your inventory. On top of that you have to spend skill points in order to craft. A lot of skill points.

Nothing in a game should ever be cumbersome. Cumbersome is boring, and the devs don't want bored players. Bored players leave and find entertainment elsewhere.

badmojo · May 2014

Chrysolis wrote: »

@badmojo‌
So having 500 slots of guild bank space for personal use is not immersion breaking, but 200 slots of personal bank space is? Seems a little inconsistent.

Not really, I put in the work of starting up a guild with a friend and getting people to join it. In real life that would get you a guild hall with storage space. It sucks that we just get expanded bank space, but I don't feel like it breaks immersion to be rewarded for being a guildmaster.

Why are you trying to find fault in my immersion consistency? Do you think finding some fault in immersion is going to blow my mind? Or invalidate my pointing to immersion as the reason I don't like your suggestions?

I'm just here sharing my opinion, on this forum. I hate having to constantly defend them like I'm running for president. If you don't like how I feel about the issues at hand, ignore my posts and live your life. If I respond to you, tell me you're not interested in a discussion with me, I'll drop it.

ZOS_CarolusS · May 2014

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Sendarya · May 2014

It seems that those with an opinion that there is a good reason for it being the way it is are just entirely dismissed, even when we give good reasons (server side storage, breaking the economy, etc).

Do you think ZoS realy just wants to annoy their game base and drive you all away? That's pretty silly.

Back in beta, we had HALF the inventory we do now. HALF! Enough people complained about it that they doubled it. They listened to the player base about this issue already, and have given us larger inventories.

It isn't to dismiss your concerns entirely, because I know you are right insofar as inventory can become extremely unfun and unweildly. I admit that.
I started out doing every single craft (3 on 2 different characters. One character did all the BS, WW, cloth, the other did alchemy, enchanting, and provisioning).

I used to spend almost half my game time screwing with my inventory. I hated it. I hated it so much that I...dropped alchemy! That helped a lot. I decided to focus on provisioning and enchanting as a side dish.

Then I started playing my alt more (now my main), and after hitting 30 or so and still hating inventory management, I dropped blacksmithing! I looked at my character and thought, I'm wearing robes, my other character wears leather, I use mostly staffs and bows. If I do want a sword, I can ask another crafter. I made a decision to STOP playing the inventory micromanaging game, and focus on the crafts I found the most useful. I still decon Green+ blue metal drops, but I sell off the mats.

Now inventory management is not a big hassle anymore, and I have enjoyed both leveling and crafting FAR more.

It really is about choice. The OP (and many others) are choosing to play the micromanaging inventory game by max leveling every craft or whatever, and then complaining about it. No one is forcing you to level all crafts. It...is...a...choice. Choices have consequences, some of them are not the consequences you most desire.

I guess that is the part I don't get. Because I was in your shoes a while back, but I realized I had to make the changes, it was up to me. Don't like the inventory mini-game? Great, you are right, it isn't fun. Then STOP doing it! I mean, seriously.

I mean that in a nice way, lol.

In all seriousness, I do hope Zeni gives us all some better inventory management tools (as a very serious provisioner, I mean, I REALLY need this!), and I also hope that people suffering these headaches find a happy way to deal with them.

Cheers!

badmojo · May 2014

Blackwidow wrote: »

badmojo wrote: »

Blackwidow wrote: »

Please tell me how you play so i can enjoy it?

I'll set up the scene.....

You just got back from adventuring, ready to play your banking mini game! your bank is full and your bags, after selling junk is still pretty full.

And play. Explain this fun romp of a time. Please.

If you really want to know how I've decided to deal with my inventory, start by reading the 6th post in this thread. Basically, I've taken advantage of everything available to me.

I did not ask for advice.

I want to hear about this fun mini game.

BTW, I noticed you use the 500 guild bank as your storage. Why?

Would it not be more fun just to use your personal bank? Isn't that more challenging? More of a mini banking game?

While I'm on the subject, why don't you ask ZOS to half your bank space? Isn't a smaller bank more fun for you?

And you have 4 mules????

"After that I have 4 characters who hold associated materials. Tailor, Blacksmith, Woodworker, Alchemist. Leaving 4 main accounts for me to play on, which are the four classes & three factions."

I can't take you seriously. I won't be chatting with you anymore.

You have 4 mules and you use a guild bank for your personal items and you say there is nothing wrong with the current bank system.

Get the F out of here.

See this is my problem with this whole thread. Using the resources at EVERY players disposal, I can make my inventory extremely easy to manage. I can even deal with using less.

But for some strange reason people like you want to gimp yourself by doing every craft on one character and ignoring the guild bank possibilities.

And I don't have 4 mules, I have 4 alts that I use for crafting. They need these materials for their job, and there's no space in the bank so it goes in their inventory.

I think the only thing about inventory expansion I would agree with is the trophy/pets/CEmaps being put in quest items or something that didn't count towards the limit. I opened the first set I got, big mistake.

Chrysolis · May 2014

@badmojo‌
I was pointing out that a large part of your claim was immersion, in which you have to select what you want and what you don't; and how it doesn't make sense so much could be stored in those banks. Meanwhile, you're packing as much stuff in that guild bank as I have across all of my mules. Furthermore, doesn't having to switch out between 4 characters to bank your gear break immersion?

I'm not sure why you suddenly got so hostile considering I hardly said anything. I pointed out your inconsistency because it's really strange to make an argument that you don't even follow yourself. The reason you might find yourself defending your position is because you're arguing that inventory limitations should be imposed on the rest of us while you, yourself, are in a far more advantageous position. Having a guild bank is not a zero sum equation; there are 10 people that don't get one for every 1 that does.

Chrysolis · May 2014

@Sendarya

Chrysolis wrote: »

Just wanted to point out that I did address some of your points in what I would consider to be a respectful fashion, and referenced them since; I did not simply dismiss them. I am totally fine with dissenting opinions so long as they are in some ways informative or constructive.

Jeremy_gelber_ESO · May 2014

its called mules and the bank manager addon.

Allyah · May 2014

[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Flaming]