Official Discussion Thread for "Vengeance Returns Full-Time with Update 50!"

ZOS_Kevin · June 4

This is the official discussion thread for, "Vengeance Returns Full-Time with Update 50!"

"Vengeance is back and here to stay as a permanent 30-day Cyrodiil campaign!"

FurryCandyHearts · June 4

lord have mercy. no one wants it i'm told. is it optional or all the time for everyone?

olsborg · June 4

Cant wait, this is true skillfull pvp imo.

Maitsukas · June 4

FurryCandyHearts wrote: »

lord have mercy. no one wants it i'm told. is it optional or all the time for everyone?

Vengeance and Grey Host (Alliance-locked, CP, 30 days) will be the permanent Cyrodiil campaigns once U50 goes live. Ravenwatch (No CP, 30 days), Blackreach (CP, 30 days) and Icereach (Lvl 10-49, 7 days) will be shut down.

agelonestar · June 4

Someone please remind me - which one is Grey Host? Is that the Alliance Locked campaign? (I usually play Blackreach).

karthrag_inak · June 4

Maitsukas wrote: »

FurryCandyHearts wrote: »

lord have mercy. no one wants it i'm told. is it optional or all the time for everyone?

Vengeance and Grey Host will be the permanent Cyrodiil campaigns once U50 goes live. Ravenwatch (No CP, 30 days), Blackreach (CP, 30 days) and Icereach (Lvl 10-49, 7 days) will be shut down.

that's absolutely horrible. So just like 2 team 'upgrade' to bgs.

ItsNotLiving · June 4

olsborg wrote: »

Cant wait, this is true skillfull pvp imo.

Definitely agree with it being raw skill. I don’t really understand the hate for it.

Maitsukas · June 4

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Cant wait, this is true skillfull pvp imo.

Definitely agree with it being raw skill. I don’t really understand the hate for it.

I think it mainly comes from the fact that the OP builds weren't available since the first test last year. But that may change once ZOS plans to add proc sets to Vengeance in the future.

opaj · June 4

Vengeance is my favorite campaign!

I also don't PvP a whole bunch, so I feel a little bad about the campaigns that are going away...

(Some people will probably point to this comment as proof that only filthy casuals like Vengeance, haha. I like it because it reminds me of how Cyrodiil felt at launch, but I'm also not a great PvPer.)

albertberku · June 4

agelonestar wrote: »

Someone please remind me - which one is Grey Host? Is that the Alliance Locked campaign? (I usually play Blackreach).

Grey Host is the Alliance Locked campaign, where you see a player for a split second and see 15 different entries in your combat logs after respawning in the nearest castle, and wonder exactly when all these stuff hit you as you didnt see a single animation playing.

React · June 4

ItsNotLiving wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Cant wait, this is true skillfull pvp imo.

Definitely agree with it being raw skill. I don’t really understand the hate for it.

In some ways it is skillful. Resource management matters, there is a lot more emphasis on skill timing/block timing/dodge timing in 1v1s, GVG seems to be a lot more skill based from what I've watched.

In other ways, it falls short. It lacks snare immunities, and you are basically defenseless when you have people spamming roots/snares on you. There aren't meaningful ways to increase your damage. Even taking scout + the highest damage perks, which is a huge loss of mitigation compared to vanguard and more balanced perks, doesn't really reduce the number of GCDs it will take you to burst down your average player. Buildcraft is non-existent. One of the best parts of ESO is theorycrafting new setups and testing them - vengeance basically removes this. DOT damage and spammables with DOT portions attached are way too effective compared to direct damage options - the meta on every class is to run 2-3 DOTs on a very static rotation and doesn't feel feel particularly engaging to play. It does really feel like there are hard limits on the skill expression you're able to achieve in vengeance compared to normal PVP, especially outside of 1v1s.

Large scale PVP is just a siege fest, where the side with the greater numbers wins 99% of the time.

I think there is a place for vengeance - but it needs a lot of work to get there. The changes coming to the campaign in U50 do not give me hope they're going in the right direction, either. At the end of the day, vengeance's original goal was to create a 1k population cap campaign where large scale PVP can happen lag free - but if it fails to achieve those population numbers, what is the point? Especially if it is the "cop out" for not continuing to work on GH performance.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · June 4

@ZOS_Kevin
Will GH be made non- alliance locked due to the removal of the other campaigns or are players who want to play multiple alliances in Cyrodiil forced into vengeance?

decairn · June 5

To be clear then - feedback on lack-lustre Veterancy rewards not actioned, Veterancy name choice being poor not actioned, no clear communication on what's happening with the other campaigns, no changes to core Cyrodiil game-mode mechanics like scoring or rewards for scroll running or scroll recovery. Instead its been a year of making an alternative to Cyrodiil using the same map and game-mode only. Very disappointing, my only hope is Vengeance has some sort of acceptance so that it reduces queues on existing Grey Host campaign.

Biff_Brendane · June 8

If we wanted a game where everyone has the same limited sets of skills and equipment, we'd play call of duty.
-
This is not a test of skill. This is a test of social skill. If you learn to group with others, you will win. Every. Time.
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I'm part of a large Greyhost guild and I quit playing in vengeance when I realized we were unstoppable there. If you have the biggest group of guys online, vengeance just devolves to harvesting resources. I literally fell asleep while only spamming AOEs for a half-hour straight the last time I played in there.

ItsNotLiving · June 8

Biff_Brendane wrote: »

If we wanted a game where everyone has the same limited sets of skills and equipment, we'd play call of duty.
-
This is not a test of skill. This is a test of social skill. If you learn to group with others, you will win. Every. Time.
-
I'm part of a large Greyhost guild and I quit playing in vengeance when I realized we were unstoppable there. If you have the biggest group of guys online, vengeance just devolves to harvesting resources. I literally fell asleep while only spamming AOEs for a half-hour straight the last time I played in there.

I’ve won multiple 1vX fights during the tests.

sarahvhoffb14_ESO · June 8

"It's just a test" "Nope it's just a test don't worry" "Totally just a test"

Surprise! We're killing all but one other Cyro campaign and replacing them with Vengeance!

I don't understand this decision.

Aylish · June 8

I was happy to help testing when it was stated that Vengeance is just a test to see where performance issues in classic Cyrodiil come from so you‘d be able to address and actually fix those.
You tricked us with this „test“ and thus it will never get a chance from those who actually believed this test scam was meant to fix Cyro.

Fett233 · June 8

Imagine having to get rid of all the other campaigns just to force people to play vengeance it’s ridiculous.

Benny_senpai · June 8

Fix the Grey Host leaderboards on PC NA!

It reset as a new campaign, but there's a few who retained their AP and have like 2 million AP on the leaderboards on the first 30 minutes.

LarsS · June 8

Please give decent pop info for the campaigns instead of the bars. As it is now a pop bar on Vengeance is in reality 3 times as many as on GH. Thus it is impossible to compare pop.

valenwood_vegan · June 8

LarsS wrote: »

Please give decent pop info for the campaigns instead of the bars. As it is now a pop bar on Vengeance is in reality 3 times as many as on GH. Thus it is impossible to compare pop.

Just to add to this, it makes Vengeance *look* dead even if it may actually be as or nearly as populated as GH. I'm not trying to argue that it is, or to go down that road (spoiler: it actually WAS dead, and I'm mad that I had to waste my time going in there and finding that out) - just saying that zos is doing themselves no favors here with the old population bars - people see everything at one bar and it doesn't look great and they may not even bother - it's meaningless information that does not exactly encourage more participation.

Necrotech_Master · June 8

i might actually bother to set a home campaign again in vengeance, i hadnt really bothered since i dont really need the transmutes lol

my previous home campaign was primarily blackreach, which has been dead for over a year except outside of events or maybe a few hours during the week

i dont expect to go back to GH anytime soon and after pvping yesterday i keep getting reminded why i hate it in GH:

ball groups
gankers
bombers
siege doing almost nothing
feeling nobody is dying to anything unless getting dunked on by a dozen people
lack of fights (due to the low pop caps and people getting absorbed into ball group fights)

my experience yesterday in GH was: 15 min of attempting to help chase out of a ballgroup from the upper section of BB without success, a short push up through blue territory, and a 2.5 hour long bridge fight (most fun part of the afternoon)

Fett233 · 2:13AM

Man who would’ve thought that there would be a 40 minute estimated wait time for gray host current Queue position 64 and zero bars in vengeance across all three factions hmmmmmmmm. Big surprise(not really).